Nabble - English Wikipedia

Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T08:51:02Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>wrote:
>
>
> Having to have secret little chats because you can't have it all your own
> way on wikipedia.

It's not secret. Anyone can come and the log of the last meeting is here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/BLP_Task_Force/Meeting_agenda/Minutes

I imagine the log of the more recent meeting will appear on meta soon.

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T07:56:14Z

Always paranoia, when you can't provide a satisfactory answer or
explanation. If I am paranoid, let me tell you that you are quite pathetic.
Having to have secret little chats because you can't have it all your own
way on wikipedia. Who the hell are you anyway?

Giano

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Steve Bennett <stevagewp@...> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Giacomo M-Z
> <solebaciato@...> wrote:
> > Troling? what is trolling about pointing out that IRC is not the place to
> be
> > dicusisng Wikipedia policy affairs?
>
> Everything. There has long been an official IRC location for exactly
> that. There are even designated "office hours" these days.
>
> > Secondly, it may be free now (I have no
> > idea), but it certainly was not in the past - £15 was the figure at one
> > time.
>
> ....and we're well off topic now.
>
> >If there is going to be an IRC meeting concerning Wikipedia, are the logs
> >of it going to onto the mailing list and to be published on Wikipedia? If
> >not - why not?
>
> Please put your paranoia to one side. Read the original post. It's an
> informal brainstorming session for people interested in discussing
> something. When people from your work go down to the pub to chat, do
> you demand they publish minutes? For heaven's sake.
>
> Steve
>
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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T07:28:01Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Giacomo M-Z
<solebaciato@...> wrote:
> Troling? what is trolling about pointing out that IRC is not the place to be
> dicusisng Wikipedia policy affairs?

Everything. There has long been an official IRC location for exactly
that. There are even designated "office hours" these days.

> Secondly, it may be free now (I have no
> idea), but it certainly was not in the past - £15 was the figure at one
> time.

....and we're well off topic now.

>If there is going to be an IRC meeting concerning Wikipedia, are the logs
>of it going to onto the mailing list and to be published on Wikipedia? If
>not - why not?

Please put your paranoia to one side. Read the original post. It's an
informal brainstorming session for people interested in discussing
something. When people from your work go down to the pub to chat, do
you demand they publish minutes? For heaven's sake.

Steve

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T06:47:11Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...> wrote:
> If there is going to be an IRC meeting concerning Wikipedia, are the logs
> of it going to onto the mailing list and to be published on Wikipedia? If
> not - why not?
>
> Giano
>

The BLP task force is a Meta project, organized by Cary Bass. It's
common and accepted for discussions to be held on IRC, since text chat
is a better medium for real-time discussion and coordination than
wiki. The WMF has all sorts of IRC meetings, from office hours to
board meetings. There's no sense in requiring all Wikimedia-related
discussions to occur on a talkpage somewhere.

Nathan

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T04:47:23Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>wrote:

> If there is going to be an IRC meeting concerning Wikipedia, are the logs
> of it going to onto the mailing list and to be published on Wikipedia? If
> not - why not?
>

I don't see what's wrong with posting the logs on the BLPTF pages on meta.
The log for a previous meeting was already circulated on the BLPTF mailing
list and the mailing list is going to be made public at the conclusion of
the taskforce.

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T03:53:00Z

If there is going to be an IRC meeting concerning Wikipedia, are the logs
of it going to onto the mailing list and to be published on Wikipedia? If
not - why not?

Giano

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:19 AM, geni <geniice@...> wrote:

> 2009/11/23 Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>:
> > I think you will find, that one does have to pay to join IRC, from Europe
> at
> > least.
> >
> > Giano
>
> Just install [[seamonkey]] and click the links at [[WP:IRC]]
>
> --
> geni
>
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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T03:34:30Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>wrote:

> Troling? what is trolling about pointing out that IRC is not the place to
> be
> dicusisng Wikipedia policy affairs? Secondly, it may be free now (I have no
> idea), but it certainly was not in the past - £15 was the figure at one
> time.

No, IRC has never cost anything. If your ISP was charging to use IRC then
they were ripping people off and anyway you can get on IRC using the Java
interface if you have web access.

As a member of the BLP Task Force I'd be delighted to receive suggestions in
any way. Having an IRC meeting is just one way in which to discuss issues
but it's helpful to have a real time chat. (What's not helpful is having one
at 2 AM; no-one's going to be able to make every time suggested but perhaps
we could have another in European daytime)

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T03:29:14Z

Troling? what is trolling about pointing out that IRC is not the place to be
dicusisng Wikipedia policy affairs? Secondly, it may be free now (I have no
idea), but it certainly was not in the past - £15 was the figure at one
time.

Giano

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Steve Bennett <stevagewp@...> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>
> wrote:
> > Oh that sounds really interesting, I will pay some money to join IRC and
> > then get up at 2am to participate. Much more fun than doing it freely and
> > openly on Wikipedia.
>
> Please stop trolling.
>
> (Moderator)
>
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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T03:19:51Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...> wrote:
> Oh that sounds really interesting, I will pay some money to join IRC and
> then get up at 2am to participate. Much more fun than doing it freely and
> openly on Wikipedia.

Please stop trolling.

(Moderator)

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T03:07:54Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:21 AM, altally <altallym@...> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...
> >wrote:
>
> > I think you will find, that one does have to pay to join IRC, from Europe
> > at
> > least.
> >
> > Giano
> >
>
> Nonsense. I've been using IRC for years and have never paid a penny.
>
> --Majorly
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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T01:21:34Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>wrote:

> I think you will find, that one does have to pay to join IRC, from Europe
> at
> least.
>
> Giano
>

Nonsense. I've been using IRC for years and have never paid a penny.

--Majorly
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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T01:19:22Z

2009/11/23 Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>:
> I think you will find, that one does have to pay to join IRC, from Europe at
> least.
>
> Giano

Just install [[seamonkey]] and click the links at [[WP:IRC]]

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geni

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T00:59:52Z

I think you will find, that one does have to pay to join IRC, from Europe at
least.

Giano

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:46 AM, FastLizard4 <fastlizard4@...> wrote:

> ...who said you have to pay to get on IRC? The only thing you have to
> "pay" for to get on IRC is your Internet connection, but that would
> make Wikipedia a for-pay service too. There are plenty of free IRC
> clients, such as ChatZilla, xChat, and irssi....
>
> Of course, all this rambling is just to say that only one of your
> points is valid, but then again, the time point is why most IRC
> meetings take place after some on-wiki discussion about the best time
> to hold said meeting.
>
> Also, holding meetings on IRC is in some ways better than on-wiki, as
> it is considered by some (myself included) to be a more open
> environment for discussion.
> --
> --FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 |
> http://scalar.cluenet.org/~fastlizard4
> )
> Sent from my iPod Touch
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 0:04, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Oh that sounds really interesting, I will pay some money to join IRC
> > and
> > then get up at 2am to participate. Much more fun than doing it
> > freely and
> > openly on Wikipedia.
> >
> > Giano
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Keegan Paul <kgnpaul@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We're have a free for all discussion about BLPs, located on IRC at
> >> #wikipedia-blptf . No agenda for this get together, more of a
> >> brainstorming
> >> amongst the many scenario. The meeting starts at 02:00 UTC, Nov 23
> >> (in
> >> four
> >> an a half hours of this writing). Attendance is highly encouraged,
> >> for
> >> more
> >> information on the task force visit <
> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/BLP_Task_Force>
> >>
> >> ~Keegan
> >> --
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> WikiEN-l mailing list
> >> WikiEN-l@...
> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l@...
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T00:46:19Z

...who said you have to pay to get on IRC? The only thing you have to
"pay" for to get on IRC is your Internet connection, but that would
make Wikipedia a for-pay service too. There are plenty of free IRC
clients, such as ChatZilla, xChat, and irssi....

Of course, all this rambling is just to say that only one of your
points is valid, but then again, the time point is why most IRC
meetings take place after some on-wiki discussion about the best time
to hold said meeting.

Also, holding meetings on IRC is in some ways better than on-wiki, as
it is considered by some (myself included) to be a more open
environment for discussion.
--
--FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 | http://scalar.cluenet.org/~fastlizard4
)
Sent from my iPod Touch

On Nov 23, 2009, at 0:04, Giacomo M-Z <solebaciato@...>
wrote:

> Oh that sounds really interesting, I will pay some money to join IRC
> and
> then get up at 2am to participate. Much more fun than doing it
> freely and
> openly on Wikipedia.
>
> Giano
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Keegan Paul <kgnpaul@...>
> wrote:
>
>> We're have a free for all discussion about BLPs, located on IRC at
>> #wikipedia-blptf . No agenda for this get together, more of a
>> brainstorming
>> amongst the many scenario. The meeting starts at 02:00 UTC, Nov 23
>> (in
>> four
>> an a half hours of this writing). Attendance is highly encouraged,
>> for
>> more
>> information on the task force visit <
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/BLP_Task_Force>
>>
>> ~Keegan
>> --
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>> _______________________________________________
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> WikiEN-l@...
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@...
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Re: BLP task force meeting

2009-11-23T00:04:21Z

Oh that sounds really interesting, I will pay some money to join IRC and
then get up at 2am to participate. Much more fun than doing it freely and
openly on Wikipedia.

Giano

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Keegan Paul <kgnpaul@...> wrote:

> We're have a free for all discussion about BLPs, located on IRC at
> #wikipedia-blptf . No agenda for this get together, more of a
> brainstorming
> amongst the many scenario. The meeting starts at 02:00 UTC, Nov 23 (in
> four
> an a half hours of this writing). Attendance is highly encouraged, for
> more
> information on the task force visit <
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/BLP_Task_Force>
>
> ~Keegan
> --
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@...
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

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BLP task force meeting

2009-11-22T13:28:37Z

We're have a free for all discussion about BLPs, located on IRC at
#wikipedia-blptf . No agenda for this get together, more of a brainstorming
amongst the many scenario. The meeting starts at 02:00 UTC, Nov 23 (in four
an a half hours of this writing). Attendance is highly encouraged, for more
information on the task force visit <
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/BLP_Task_Force>

~Keegan
--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
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Re: My most reused piece of free content

2009-11-22T08:37:21Z

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@...> wrote:

>> Yeah, it is a great idea.... that's why we have article introductions,
>> right?
>>
>> - causa sui
>>
>
> Yep! Our style of having an introductory paragraph that is a summary of the
> salient points of the whole article (rather than a "hook" to get people to
> read the whole thing) is a great editorial choice in my opinion. It also
> makes our content, with the API, extremely re-usable.

Yes...to a point. Our opening sentences very strictly define the
topic, frequently with birth/death dates, names in other languages,
and claim to notability. I'm thinking of a sentence that serves
strictly to delineate this topic, and contrast with other articles.

Compare:
Kim Jong-il (also written as Kim Jong Il, Korean: 김정일; born 16
February 1941; official biographies state 16 February 1942[1]) is the
Supreme Leader[2] of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (also
known as North Korea).

With:
About Kim Jong-il, current leader of North Korea, his personal and public life.

I don't know, I haven't really thought this out.

> For example, the
> National Library of Australia sucks in our introductory paragraph of
> articles about Australian newspapers for use in their newspaper digitsation
> project - for example, look in the top-right hand corner of their landing
> page for "The Argus": http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/title/13 (they
> also do a similar thing with our articles about individual authors in their
> book catalogue search.

Yeah, I love that site. :)

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/profile/user:public:stevage

Do you have any professional connection with the site? I was nearly
going to be doing some work with them, but it fell through.

Steve

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Re: activity

2009-11-21T09:29:21Z

stevertigo <stvrtg@...> wrote:
> Your not so active

Whoops. That was for someone offlist. I forgot to edit the To line.

-Stevertigo

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activity

2009-11-21T09:26:46Z

Your not so active on enWiki these days?
Checked your contributions, when I got curious about wikien's traffic
seeming to be slowing down.

-Stevertigo

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Re: The Internet? Bah!

2009-11-21T08:25:04Z

David Gerard wrote:

> 2009/11/17 Nathan <nawrich@...>:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:07 PM, stevertigo <stvrtg@...> wrote:
>>
>
>
>>> http://www.newsweek.com/id/106554
>>> Linked and digged from a current article. Quite chuckleworthy.
>>>
>
>
>> Now that it is what it is, any idiot can look back and say it was
>> obvious what would happen. Far more people got it wrong 15-20 years
>> ago, and I guess its good for a chuckle (especially since this
>> particular writer was so condescending) - but hindsight is as perfect
>> as foresight is rare.
>>
>
>
> And at least Clifford Stoll actually knew what the heck he was talking
> about, unlike most media pontificators at the time.
>
>
> - d.
>
>

Amusingly enough I met both Clifford Stoll and Stallman when
they were in the same weight class (I think that dates me).

(RMS has gained some weight, lol)

I shook Stallmans hand in Boston in that early year when even Marvin
Minsky attended a Worldcon, and asked him when HURD would come
out of the closet.

RMS came out with his classic line of not owning crystal balls...

Yours,

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

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Re: My most reused piece of free content

2009-11-20T22:03:29Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Ryan Delaney <ryan.delaney@...>wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Judson Dunn <cohesion@...
> >wrote:
>
> > Those are great for long policy pages, especially for new users. It's
> > probably one of my favorite templates in terms of usability. They
> > might be a little too useful though, people want to use them
> > everywhere! ;)
> >
> > I don't really like template cruft in the article like that, but the
> > idea is great. I think the first paragraph should be the same thing
> > though. (The topic in a nutshell).
> >
> > Judson
>
>
> Yeah, it is a great idea.... that's why we have article introductions,
> right?
>
> - causa sui
>

Yep! Our style of having an introductory paragraph that is a summary of the
salient points of the whole article (rather than a "hook" to get people to
read the whole thing) is a great editorial choice in my opinion. It also
makes our content, with the API, extremely re-usable. For example, the
National Library of Australia sucks in our introductory paragraph of
articles about Australian newspapers for use in their newspaper digitsation
project - for example, look in the top-right hand corner of their landing
page for "The Argus": http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/title/13 (they
also do a similar thing with our articles about individual authors in their
book catalogue search.

-Liam [[wittylama]]

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T12:00:22Z

Jake Wartenberg wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Steve Bennett <stevagewp@...> wrote:
>
>
>> There have been a few of these. IMHO, the best website to discuss
>> similar issues is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Village_Pump
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
> There is something to be said for off wiki discussion. Why do you think
> these mailing lists get so much traffic? People can start discussions in a
> less formal setting before they take them to the pump. It should also be a
> place where members of the community can discuss things that are not
> Wikipedia related.
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Charles Matthews <
> charles.r.matthews@...> wrote:
>
>
>> Could you describe briefly what the editorial policy of this forum will be?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
> I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or
> trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and
> brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for
> here.
>

Sort of. It is quite important to realise, though, that the "community"
has no definite boundaries. An unofficial forum is typically seen as a
place where Wikipedians and their critics meet on something like equal
terms. You are obviously aware of some of the issues that arise, or have
arisen in the past, with criticism that goes way past anything that
could be reckoned constructive.

Charles

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T10:38:01Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Carcharoth <carcharothwp@...> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Bod Notbod <bodnotbod@...> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan <nawrich@...> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then
>>> harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked
>>> "Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied
>>> that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no
>>> trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did
>>> he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or
>>> outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits
>>> psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that
>>> some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both
>>> trolling and outing.
>>
>> Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise.
>>
>> Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is
>> bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's
>> going on.
>>
>> I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to
>> be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that "Foundation" type
>> announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that
>> would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on
>> Meta? And then people could leave comments there.
>
> There is already a foundation mailing list. That, and others, are listed here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists

There is also a 5-year-old poll here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Mailing_lists#Poll:_a_better_place_for_discussions.3F

Carcharoth

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T10:36:24Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Bod Notbod <bodnotbod@...> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan <nawrich@...> wrote:
>
>> The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then
>> harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked
>> "Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied
>> that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no
>> trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did
>> he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or
>> outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits
>> psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that
>> some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both
>> trolling and outing.
>
> Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise.
>
> Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is
> bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's
> going on.
>
> I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to
> be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that "Foundation" type
> announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that
> would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on
> Meta? And then people could leave comments there.

There is already a foundation mailing list. That, and others, are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists

Carcharoth

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T10:20:29Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan <nawrich@...> wrote:

> The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then
> harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked
> "Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied
> that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no
> trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did
> he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or
> outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits
> psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that
> some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both
> trolling and outing.

Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise.

Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is
bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's
going on.

I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to
be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that "Foundation" type
announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that
would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on
Meta? And then people could leave comments there.

I do feel that we should follow the Wiki-way.

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Re: My most reused piece of free content

2009-11-20T10:19:44Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Judson Dunn <cohesion@...>wrote:

> Those are great for long policy pages, especially for new users. It's
> probably one of my favorite templates in terms of usability. They
> might be a little too useful though, people want to use them
> everywhere! ;)
>
> I don't really like template cruft in the article like that, but the
> idea is great. I think the first paragraph should be the same thing
> though. (The topic in a nutshell).
>
> Judson

Yeah, it is a great idea.... that's why we have article introductions,
right?

- causa sui
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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T10:05:14Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Bod Notbod <bodnotbod@...> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Nathan <nawrich@...> wrote:
>
>> I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to
>> Jake for your comments.
>
> I'll happily apologise. But what was wrong in my assessment that
> starting a new community is the solution to any perceived problems
> either here or on wiki or other places where we can discuss things?
>

The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then
harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked
"Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied
that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no
trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did
he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or
outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits
psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that
some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both
trolling and outing.

Nathan

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T09:53:30Z

Bod Notbod wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg wrote
>> I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or
>> trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and
>> brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for
>> here.
>>
> If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means)
> and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.
>
>

"Outing" is the public release of private information about an
individual without his consent, particularly the public release of the
real identity of someone who has chosen to be known only by a
pseudonym. I would consider it a far more serious offence than trolling
which is merely fishing for arguments.

Ec

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T09:52:25Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Nathan <nawrich@...> wrote:

> I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to
> Jake for your comments.

I'll happily apologise. But what was wrong in my assessment that
starting a new community is the solution to any perceived problems
either here or on wiki or other places where we can discuss things?

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on why encyclopedias matter

2009-11-20T09:40:36Z

Karen Christensen, editor in chief of Berkshire Publishing, on why
encyclopedias are important:
http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6707595.html

Christensen was scheduled to speak at Wikimania 2006 about the
encyclopedia publishing business (sadly, she had a family emergency
and couldn't make it). Maybe Wikipedians in the Northeast could get
her to guest lecture sometime.

-- phoebe

--
* I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
<at> gmail.com *

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T09:31:37Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Bod Notbod <bodnotbod@...> wrote:

>
> If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means)
> and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.
>
> We already have a list that is moderated.
>
> Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean "I, personally, am not
> getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up
> another one".
>
> I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped
> down by a few people. When that happens I generally think "yeah, they
> have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong".
>
> Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right?
>

I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to
Jake for your comments.

Nathan

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T09:17:24Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Bod Notbod <bodnotbod@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg
> <jake@...> wrote:
>
>> I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or
>> trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and
>> brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for
>> here.
>
> If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means)
> and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.
>
> We already have a list that is moderated.
>
> Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean "I, personally, am not
> getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up
> another one".
>
> I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped
> down by a few people. When that happens I generally think "yeah, they
> have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong".
>
> Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right?

Er, are you confusing Jake with someone else?

Carcharoth

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Re: New site for meta-discussion

2009-11-20T09:04:55Z

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg
<jake@...> wrote:

> I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or
> trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and
> brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for
> here.

If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means)
and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.

We already have a list that is moderated.

Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean "I, personally, am not
getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up
another one".

I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped
down by a few people. When that happens I generally think "yeah, they
have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong".

Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right?

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Re: My most reused piece of free content

2009-11-20T07:39:10Z

Those are great for long policy pages, especially for new users. It's
probably one of my favorite templates in terms of usability. They
might be a little too useful though, people want to use them
everywhere! ;)

I don't really like template cruft in the article like that, but the
idea is great. I think the first paragraph should be the same thing
though. (The topic in a nutshell).

Judson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cohesion

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Re: My most reused piece of free content

2009-11-19T19:47:04Z

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:00 AM, Nathan <nawrich@...> wrote:
> Removed now, along with most of the article (which was a copyright violation).

I actually kind of liked the idea of a very brief summary. Maybe not
using the nutshell template, but it could work, particularly when you
have a number of articles on very similar topics or different aspects
of the same topic. The dab links kind of do it...but in a limited way.

Steve

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