Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

[Mathieu-12]

Hi all

I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.

Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
like PEtALS (and join us :) )

So, I am trying to give them an easy(ier) access.

One way is to give help with a forum. You know, it's often easier when
you're just testing something, to go and post question on a forum, than
to subscribe a mailing-list. That's also faster to browse/search for
information that already exists, since it is more structured than
archives. Well, it is really nice for several newcomers.

Main concern is about this mailing-list (user), and ultimately, about
you. Both tools are nice and different, but they're just tools. Most
important is what you think about them, and how to use them. What do you
think about forum ? Would you come ? Subscribe ? How to keep both tools
? or maybe how to move completely to a single one ?

I would be excited to discuss it on the forum :
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=7
(address will be soon redirected at ow2, and added to petals website)

Or if you prefer, just respond here, or to me (contacts following).
Well, just do what you want, in fact !

Best regards

Mathieu

--
Mathieu Le Breton
EBM Websourcing

tel : [phone]
skype : mathieu-66
gtalk : mathieu.lebreton@...
msn : mathieu66@...


[mlebreton.vcf]

---

begin:vcard
fn:Mathieu LE BRETON
n:LE BRETON;Mathieu
tel;work:05 34 32 03 16
tel;cell:06 28 32 53 79
note;quoted-printable:Messageries instantan=C3=A9es :=0D=0A=
        msn :     mathieu6@...=0D=0A=
        sype :    mathieu66=0D=0A=
        google:  mathieu.lebreton@...
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

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[Jérémie Doucy]

I think it's a great idea.

Le 23 juillet 2008 09:42, Mathieu <mathieu.lebreton@...> a écrit :

Hi all

I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.

Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to like PEtALS (and join us :) )

So, I am trying to give them an easy(ier) access.

One way is to give help with a forum. You know, it's often easier when you're just testing something, to go and post question on a forum, than to subscribe a mailing-list. That's also faster to browse/search for information that already exists, since it is more structured than archives. Well, it is really nice for several newcomers.

Main concern is about this mailing-list (user), and ultimately, about you. Both tools are nice and different, but they're just tools. Most important is what you think about them, and how to use them. What do you think about forum ? Would you come ? Subscribe ? How to keep both tools ? or maybe how to move completely to a single one ?

I would be excited to discuss it on the forum :
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=7
(address will be soon redirected at ow2, and added to petals website)

Or if you prefer, just respond here, or to me (contacts following). Well, just do what you want, in fact !

Best regards

Mathieu

--
Mathieu Le Breton
EBM Websourcing

tel : [phone]
skype : mathieu-66
gtalk : mathieu.lebreton@...
msn : mathieu66@...



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--
Jérémie Doucy
Information Processing Competence Center (IPCC)
EADS Defence and Security Systems
http://weblab-project.org

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[Deneux, Christophe]

I don't see the differences with the existing system: mailing-list + http://mail-archive.ow2.org/petals-users/index.html.

 

Perhaps, are you saying that threads are fixed/administrated, not free ?

 

 

IMO, the existing system is sufficient to communicate. Perhaps you should create a new anouncement mailing-list ?

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mailto:mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 09:42
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

Hi all

I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.

Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
like PEtALS (and join us :) )

So, I am trying to give them an easy(ier) access.

One way is to give help with a forum. You know, it's often easier when
you're just testing something, to go and post question on a forum, than
to subscribe a mailing-list. That's also faster to browse/search for
information that already exists, since it is more structured than
archives. Well, it is really nice for several newcomers.

Main concern is about this mailing-list (user), and ultimately, about
you. Both tools are nice and different, but they're just tools. Most
important is what you think about them, and how to use them. What do you
think about forum ? Would you come ? Subscribe ? How to keep both tools
? or maybe how to move completely to a single one ?

I would be excited to discuss it on the forum :
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=7
(address will be soon redirected at ow2, and added to petals website)

Or if you prefer, just respond here, or to me (contacts following).
Well, just do what you want, in fact !

Best regards

Mathieu

--
Mathieu Le Breton
EBM Websourcing

tel : [phone]
skype : mathieu-66
gtalk : mathieu.lebreton@...
msn : mathieu66@...

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.

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[Gaël de Chalendar]

Hello,

Personally, for computer science development I prefer mailing lists because I
like to see all passing messages even if I often delete full threads when they
don't interest me.

But I agree that for beginners a forum is maybe easier. But in this case a RSS
feed is a must-have to be able to follow all messages without connecting
directly. Also, we could think of a cross fertilizing with mailing list being
a special forum folder.

Bye.

Gaël
On Wednesday 23 July 2008 09:42:02 Mathieu wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
> all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
> We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.
>
> Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
> Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
> like PEtALS (and join us :) )
>
> So, I am trying to give them an easy(ier) access.
>
> One way is to give help with a forum. You know, it's often easier when
> you're just testing something, to go and post question on a forum, than
> to subscribe a mailing-list. That's also faster to browse/search for
> information that already exists, since it is more structured than
> archives. Well, it is really nice for several newcomers.
>
> Main concern is about this mailing-list (user), and ultimately, about
> you. Both tools are nice and different, but they're just tools. Most
> important is what you think about them, and how to use them. What do you
> think about forum ? Would you come ? Subscribe ? How to keep both tools
> ? or maybe how to move completely to a single one ?
>
> I would be excited to discuss it on the forum :
> http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=7
> (address will be soon redirected at ow2, and added to petals website)
>
> Or if you prefer, just respond here, or to me (contacts following).
> Well, just do what you want, in fact !
>
> Best regards
>
> Mathieu

--
Gael de Chalendar
CEA-LIST
Centre de Fontenay-aux-Roses
Laboratoire d'Ingénierie de la Connaissance Multimédia Multilingue (LIC2M)
(Multimedia and Multilingual Knowledge Engineering Laboratory)
Bat. 38-2 ; 18, rue du Panorama ; BP 6
92265 Fontenay aux Roses Cedex ; France
Tél.:[phone] ; Fax.:[phone]
Email : Gael.D.O.T.de-Chalendar.A@...



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[Vincent Zurczak - EBM WebSourcing]

Hi.

Deneux, Christophe a écrit :

I don't see the differences with the existing system: mailing-list + http://mail-archive.ow2.org/petals-users/index.html.

It's all about useability.
Open-source communities make an important use of mailing-lists.
However, for new commers, it takes time to master the mechanism. Generally, people have a better habit with forums than with mailing lists.

And if the PEtALS community targets to spread, beyond the scope of open-source communities, a forum may be a better solution. It is more user-friendly and people might be less shy to post.
I know Obeo uses a forum for its product Acceleo, and I have always thought it was more practical than a ML. But this is due to my long habit with forums.

However, I must agree that for the ML current users, a forum won't bring anything new in terms of communication.
Maybe the forum should only be for PEtALS users and keep the ML for developers ?

Regards,

                 Vincent Zurczak.




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[Bruno Bonfils-3]

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 09:42:02 Mathieu, vous avez écrit :
> Hi all
>
> I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
> all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
> We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.
>
> Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
> Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
> like PEtALS (and join us :) )

It could also be nice to have an IRC channel about petals, for example on
freenode or oftc networks.

my two cents

--
Bruno Bonfils
Équipe Sécurité - Groupe LINAGORA

[phone]


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[Mathieu-12]

Hi, thanks for your comments ! (Christophe and Jeremie)

Theses systems are clearly comparable, that's is totally true. I can still see three differences :

1. "Reusability" of information. When coming to main page of archive, the only information I have is the date of threads. Behavior of most of surfers arriving on a website is looking for links to click (those looking for "search box" are very few) Great thing about a forum is structure : there are categories. If categories are well chosen (and that's something to improve), they will lead people to a page without questioning, just clicking, then will see, let's say, the first 10-15 threads of that category. If his question has already been asked, or a similar one, there are chances that he goes to that thread, read fast to see if answer already exist, and then ask his question. Practically, the only way for reuse in the archive is coming from Google directly. That exclude pushing the mail-list ahead in petals website.

2.  Easier access. I talked with few people by email, who were testing petals. They would not come to mail-list because "they have not a sufficient expertise yet". Or they would not ask a question because "that is a too stupid question". That's not everyone, that's just a part of people. On forum, we can stimulate people to come and ask their questions, because it's html.
It is "click-not-think", and it can be promoted much easily on petals website.

3.  That's different. Some guys prefer forum, other prefer mail-list, that's just culture. Among those who use it regularly, main difference is culture, or taste. Getting two of them gives choice. Among newcomers, ml-accustomed guys will come to forum since it's easy access (I'm not sure of this, maybe I'm wrong) , but the contrary is more difficult

Thanks for your comment anyway.
That would be great to find to find a solution which is convenient for everyone. Keep on talk.
(And how happy would I be if that talk was on forum :D)

Regards
Mathieu

Deneux, Christophe a écrit :

I don't see the differences with the existing system: mailing-list + http://mail-archive.ow2.org/petals-users/index.html.

 

Perhaps, are you saying that threads are fixed/administrated, not free ?

 

 

IMO, the existing system is sufficient to communicate. Perhaps you should create a new anouncement mailing-list ?

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 09:42
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

Hi all

I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.

Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
like PEtALS (and join us :) )

So, I am trying to give them an easy(ier) access.

One way is to give help with a forum. You know, it's often easier when
you're just testing something, to go and post question on a forum, than
to subscribe a mailing-list. That's also faster to browse/search for
information that already exists, since it is more structured than
archives. Well, it is really nice for several newcomers.

Main concern is about this mailing-list (user), and ultimately, about
you. Both tools are nice and different, but they're just tools. Most
important is what you think about them, and how to use them. What do you
think about forum ? Would you come ? Subscribe ? How to keep both tools
? or maybe how to move completely to a single one ?

I would be excited to discuss it on the forum :
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=7
(address will be soon redirected at ow2, and added to petals website)

Or if you prefer, just respond here, or to me (contacts following).
Well, just do what you want, in fact !

Best regards

Mathieu

--
Mathieu Le Breton
EBM Websourcing

tel : [phone]
skype : mathieu-66
gtalk : mathieu.lebreton@...
msn : mathieu66@...

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.
  

[mlebreton.vcf]

---

begin:vcard
fn:Mathieu LE BRETON
n:LE BRETON;Mathieu
tel;work:05 34 32 03 16
tel;cell:06 28 32 53 79
note;quoted-printable:Messageries instantan=C3=A9es :=0D=0A=
        msn :     mathieu6@...=0D=0A=
        sype :    mathieu66=0D=0A=
        google:  mathieu.lebreton@...
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

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[Deneux, Christophe]

I agree. The GUI useability of ML archive website is not very good. It should be change.

 

I think that mailing lists and forums must be integrated:

   - A message written in the forum will be sent to the mailing-list,

   - A mesasge sent to the mailling list will be archived in the forum in the correct thread

 

 

So, only the ML archive system should be changed to be more useable.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mailto:mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 12:04
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: RE : Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

Hi, thanks for your comments ! (Christophe and Jeremie)

Theses systems are clearly comparable, that's is totally true. I can still see three differences :

1. "Reusability" of information. When coming to main page of archive, the only information I have is the date of threads. Behavior of most of surfers arriving on a website is looking for links to click (those looking for "search box" are very few) Great thing about a forum is structure : there are categories. If categories are well chosen (and that's something to improve), they will lead people to a page without questioning, just clicking, then will see, let's say, the first 10-15 threads of that category. If his question has already been asked, or a similar one, there are chances that he goes to that thread, read fast to see if answer already exist, and then ask his question. Practically, the only way for reuse in the archive is coming from Google directly. That exclude pushing the mail-list ahead in petals website.

2.  Easier access. I talked with few people by email, who were testing petals. They would not come to mail-list because "they have not a sufficient expertise yet". Or they would not ask a question because "that is a too stupid question". That's not everyone, that's just a part of people. On forum, we can stimulate people to come and ask their questions, because it's html.
It is "click-not-think", and it can be promoted much easily on petals website.

3.  That's different. Some guys prefer forum, other prefer mail-list, that's just culture. Among those who use it regularly, main difference is culture, or taste. Getting two of them gives choice. Among newcomers, ml-accustomed guys will come to forum since it's easy access (I'm not sure of this, maybe I'm wrong) , but the contrary is more difficult

Thanks for your comment anyway.
That would be great to find to find a solution which is convenient for everyone. Keep on talk.
(And how happy would I be if that talk was on forum :D)

Regards
Mathieu

Deneux, Christophe a écrit :

I don't see the differences with the existing system: mailing-list + http://mail-archive.ow2.org/petals-users/index.html.

 

Perhaps, are you saying that threads are fixed/administrated, not free ?

 

 

IMO, the existing system is sufficient to communicate. Perhaps you should create a new anouncement mailing-list ?

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 09:42
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

Hi all

I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.

Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
like PEtALS (and join us :) )

So, I am trying to give them an easy(ier) access.

One way is to give help with a forum. You know, it's often easier when
you're just testing something, to go and post question on a forum, than
to subscribe a mailing-list. That's also faster to browse/search for
information that already exists, since it is more structured than
archives. Well, it is really nice for several newcomers.

Main concern is about this mailing-list (user), and ultimately, about
you. Both tools are nice and different, but they're just tools. Most
important is what you think about them, and how to use them. What do you
think about forum ? Would you come ? Subscribe ? How to keep both tools
? or maybe how to move completely to a single one ?

I would be excited to discuss it on the forum :
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=7
(address will be soon redirected at ow2, and added to petals website)

Or if you prefer, just respond here, or to me (contacts following).
Well, just do what you want, in fact !

Best regards

Mathieu

--
Mathieu Le Breton
EBM Websourcing

tel : [phone]
skype : mathieu-66
gtalk : mathieu.lebreton@...
msn : mathieu66@...

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.
  

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.

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[Christophe Hamerling]

Hi all,

I need to check if other OW2 projects have already IRC channels, if not it could be nice to create it. But this is another communication channel too.
As a reminder, for the developers team, we use the OW2 jabber service (jabber.objectweb.org), it will be nice to have more developers connected on because it is also a way to communicate with other OW2 guys.

Christophe

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Bruno Bonfils <bbonfils@...> wrote:

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 09:42:02 Mathieu, vous avez écrit :

> Hi all
>
> I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
> all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
> We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.
>
> Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
> Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
> like PEtALS (and join us :) )

It could also be nice to have an IRC channel about petals, for example on
freenode or oftc networks.

my two cents

--
Bruno Bonfils
Équipe Sécurité - Groupe LINAGORA

[phone]


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--
Christophe Hamerling
PEtALS ESB Research Engineer / Product Manager @ eBM WebSourcing
http://petals.ow2.org
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com
Phone : [phone]
Skype : christophe.hamerling

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[Bruno Bonfils-3]

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 12:20:38 Deneux, Christophe, vous avez écrit :
> I agree. The GUI useability of ML archive website is not very good. It
> should be change.
>
> I think that mailing lists and forums must be integrated:
>    - A message written in the forum will be sent to the mailing-list,
>    - A mesasge sent to the mailling list will be archived in the forum in
> the correct thread
>

It's possible to achieve that using a software like jive (used by
opensolaris.org project) and a mailman (for example). Jive  [1] is not
opensource, but have a licence with no fee for opensource project. And I
totally agree with Christophe, if you want a forum, please synchronize it
with the mailing list. For example I definitively hate web based forums, and
I know some other people hate mailing list :)

[1] http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/jive-forums

--
Bruno Bonfils
Équipe Sécurité - Groupe LINAGORA

[phone]


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[Mathieu-12]

So, main concern is about integrating both forum and mail-list, is that it ?

For now, as Gael said you can receive with RSS (or even convert to email), but still have to use web interface to write responses...

It tried several bridges, that I explain here, but none were perfectly convenient.
(Integrating forum database with mail-list could be a PEtALS usecase ^^)

Jives looks nice, I'll have a look to it, thanks. If you have other solutions to make bridges, tell me :)
(However, one thing about this forum is that it's very light, which is important since it's hosted on our own server. Maybe we could try to host it at OW2 ?)

We'll find a solution which fits everyone :)

Regards

Mathieu

Bruno Bonfils a écrit :

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 12:20:38 Deneux, Christophe, vous avez écrit :
  

I agree. The GUI useability of ML archive website is not very good. It
should be change.

I think that mailing lists and forums must be integrated:
   - A message written in the forum will be sent to the mailing-list,
   - A mesasge sent to the mailling list will be archived in the forum in
the correct thread

    

It's possible to achieve that using a software like jive (used by 
opensolaris.org project) and a mailman (for example). Jive  [1] is not 
opensource, but have a licence with no fee for opensource project. And I 
totally agree with Christophe, if you want a forum, please synchronize it 
with the mailing list. For example I definitively hate web based forums, and 
I know some other people hate mailing list :)

[1] http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/jive-forums

  

[mlebreton.vcf]

---

begin:vcard
fn:Mathieu LE BRETON
n:LE BRETON;Mathieu
tel;work:05 34 32 03 16
tel;cell:06 28 32 53 79
note;quoted-printable:Messageries instantan=C3=A9es :=0D=0A=
        msn :     mathieu6@...=0D=0A=
        sype :    mathieu66=0D=0A=
        google:  mathieu.lebreton@...
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

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[Deneux, Christophe]

Is it possible to use Jabber through a web GUI ?

 

In som case, it is not possible to use directly this tools because of compagny network policy.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
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De: chamerling.ebmws@... de la part de Christophe Hamerling - eBM WebSourcing
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 12:30
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: Re: Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

Hi all,

I need to check if other OW2 projects have already IRC channels, if not it could be nice to create it. But this is another communication channel too.
As a reminder, for the developers team, we use the OW2 jabber service (jabber.objectweb.org), it will be nice to have more developers connected on because it is also a way to communicate with other OW2 guys.

Christophe

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Bruno Bonfils <bbonfils@...> wrote:

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 09:42:02 Mathieu, vous avez écrit :

> Hi all
>
> I am Mathieu Lebreton, from EBM Websourcing, where I (mainly) improve
> all Internet communication, and get feedback about PEtALS use.
> We have been discussing about PEtALS with some of you.
>
> Nice thing about PEtALS is that most of you like it :)
> Bad thing are harsh efforts needed for newcomers before they come to
> like PEtALS (and join us :) )

It could also be nice to have an IRC channel about petals, for example on
freenode or oftc networks.

my two cents

--
Bruno Bonfils
Équipe Sécurité - Groupe LINAGORA

[phone]


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Christophe Hamerling
PEtALS ESB Research Engineer / Product Manager @ eBM WebSourcing
http://petals.ow2.org
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com
Phone : [phone]
Skype : christophe.hamerling

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[Deneux, Christophe]

Is it possible to ask OW2 to change its archive system by Jives or equivalent ? So it will be available for all OW2 projects.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mailto:mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 14:15
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: Re: RE : Re: RE : Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

So, main concern is about integrating both forum and mail-list, is that it ?

For now, as Gael said you can receive with RSS (or even convert to email), but still have to use web interface to write responses...

It tried several bridges, that I explain here, but none were perfectly convenient.
(Integrating forum database with mail-list could be a PEtALS usecase ^^)

Jives looks nice, I'll have a look to it, thanks. If you have other solutions to make bridges, tell me :)
(However, one thing about this forum is that it's very light, which is important since it's hosted on our own server. Maybe we could try to host it at OW2 ?)

We'll find a solution which fits everyone :)

Regards

Mathieu

Bruno Bonfils a écrit :

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 12:20:38 Deneux, Christophe, vous avez écrit :
  

I agree. The GUI useability of ML archive website is not very good. It
should be change.

I think that mailing lists and forums must be integrated:
   - A message written in the forum will be sent to the mailing-list,
   - A mesasge sent to the mailling list will be archived in the forum in
the correct thread

    

It's possible to achieve that using a software like jive (used by 
opensolaris.org project) and a mailman (for example). Jive  [1] is not 
opensource, but have a licence with no fee for opensource project. And I 
totally agree with Christophe, if you want a forum, please synchronize it 
with the mailing list. For example I definitively hate web based forums, and 
I know some other people hate mailing list :)

[1] http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/jive-forums

  

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.

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[Mathieu-12]

Gael (Blondelle) talked to me about it as well. Maybe that's possible...

About Jabber GUI, I'll have a look (after the forum :) ). But I suppose, as Christophe said, that channel should be only for developers, not to be stuck on it with unfinishing user questions...

Deneux, Christophe a écrit :

Is it possible to ask OW2 to change its archive system by Jives or equivalent ? So it will be available for all OW2 projects.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 14:15
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: Re: RE : Re: RE : Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

So, main concern is about integrating both forum and mail-list, is that it ?

For now, as Gael said you can receive with RSS (or even convert to email), but still have to use web interface to write responses...

It tried several bridges, that I explain here, but none were perfectly convenient.
(Integrating forum database with mail-list could be a PEtALS usecase ^^)

Jives looks nice, I'll have a look to it, thanks. If you have other solutions to make bridges, tell me :)
(However, one thing about this forum is that it's very light, which is important since it's hosted on our own server. Maybe we could try to host it at OW2 ?)

We'll find a solution which fits everyone :)

Regards

Mathieu

Bruno Bonfils a écrit :

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 12:20:38 Deneux, Christophe, vous avez écrit :
  

I agree. The GUI useability of ML archive website is not very good. It
should be change.

I think that mailing lists and forums must be integrated:
   - A message written in the forum will be sent to the mailing-list,
   - A mesasge sent to the mailling list will be archived in the forum in
the correct thread

    

It's possible to achieve that using a software like jive (used by 
opensolaris.org project) and a mailman (for example). Jive  [1] is not 
opensource, but have a licence with no fee for opensource project. And I 
totally agree with Christophe, if you want a forum, please synchronize it 
with the mailing list. For example I definitively hate web based forums, and 
I know some other people hate mailing list :)

[1] http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/jive-forums

  

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.
  

[mlebreton.vcf]

---

begin:vcard
fn:Mathieu LE BRETON
n:LE BRETON;Mathieu
tel;work:05 34 32 03 16
tel;cell:06 28 32 53 79
note;quoted-printable:Messageries instantan=C3=A9es :=0D=0A=
        msn :     mathieu6@...=0D=0A=
        sype :    mathieu66=0D=0A=
        google:  mathieu.lebreton@...
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

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[Deneux, Christophe]

Yes, Jabber should be only for developpers !

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mailto:mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 14:53
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: RE : Re: Re: RE : Re: RE : Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

Gael (Blondelle) talked to me about it as well. Maybe that's possible...

About Jabber GUI, I'll have a look (after the forum :) ). But I suppose, as Christophe said, that channel should be only for developers, not to be stuck on it with unfinishing user questions...

Deneux, Christophe a écrit :

Is it possible to ask OW2 to change its archive system by Jives or equivalent ? So it will be available for all OW2 projects.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 14:15
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: Re: RE : Re: RE : Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

So, main concern is about integrating both forum and mail-list, is that it ?

For now, as Gael said you can receive with RSS (or even convert to email), but still have to use web interface to write responses...

It tried several bridges, that I explain here, but none were perfectly convenient.
(Integrating forum database with mail-list could be a PEtALS usecase ^^)

Jives looks nice, I'll have a look to it, thanks. If you have other solutions to make bridges, tell me :)
(However, one thing about this forum is that it's very light, which is important since it's hosted on our own server. Maybe we could try to host it at OW2 ?)

We'll find a solution which fits everyone :)

Regards

Mathieu

Bruno Bonfils a écrit :

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 12:20:38 Deneux, Christophe, vous avez écrit :
  

I agree. The GUI useability of ML archive website is not very good. It
should be change.

I think that mailing lists and forums must be integrated:
   - A message written in the forum will be sent to the mailing-list,
   - A mesasge sent to the mailling list will be archived in the forum in
the correct thread

    

It's possible to achieve that using a software like jive (used by 
opensolaris.org project) and a mailman (for example). Jive  [1] is not 
opensource, but have a licence with no fee for opensource project. And I 
totally agree with Christophe, if you want a forum, please synchronize it 
with the mailing list. For example I definitively hate web based forums, and 
I know some other people hate mailing list :)

[1] http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/jive-forums

  

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.
  

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.

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[Christophe Hamerling]

We can ask but I also asked to get JIRA tens of times and waiting...

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Deneux, Christophe <christophe.deneux@...> wrote:

Is it possible to ask OW2 to change its archive system by Jives or equivalent ? So it will be available for all OW2 projects.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Christophe DENEUX / Capgemini Sud / Méditerranée
Integration Architect / OW2 PEtALS Comitter
Tel: + 33 4 93 95 55 92 / www.capgemini.com
Porte de l'Arénas - Entrée B / 455 Promenade des Anglais / 06200 Nice / FRANCE
Join the Collaborative Business Experience
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please consider the environment and do not print this email unless absolutely necessary. Capgemini encourages environmental awareness.

---

De: Mathieu [mailto:mathieu.lebreton@...]
Date: mer. 23/07/2008 14:15
À: petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: Re: RE : Re: RE : Evolution of this mailing list, or second tool to communicate ?

So, main concern is about integrating both forum and mail-list, is that it ?

For now, as Gael said you can receive with RSS (or even convert to email), but still have to use web interface to write responses...

It tried several bridges, that I explain here, but none were perfectly convenient.
(Integrating forum database with mail-list could be a PEtALS usecase ^^)

Jives looks nice, I'll have a look to it, thanks. If you have other solutions to make bridges, tell me :)
(However, one thing about this forum is that it's very light, which is important since it's hosted on our own server. Maybe we could try to host it at OW2 ?)

We'll find a solution which fits everyone :)

Regards

Mathieu

Bruno Bonfils a écrit :

Le Wednesday 23 July 2008 12:20:38 Deneux, Christophe, vous avez écrit :
  

I agree. The GUI useability of ML archive website is not very good. It
should be change.

I think that mailing lists and forums must be integrated:
   - A message written in the forum will be sent to the mailing-list,
   - A mesasge sent to the mailling list will be archived in the forum in
the correct thread

    

It's possible to achieve that using a software like jive (used by 
opensolaris.org project) and a mailman (for example). Jive  [1] is not 
opensource, but have a licence with no fee for opensource project. And I 
totally agree with Christophe, if you want a forum, please synchronize it 
with the mailing list. For example I definitively hate web based forums, and 
I know some other people hate mailing list :)

[1] http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/jive-forums

  

-- 
Mathieu Le Breton
EBM Websourcing

tel : [phone]
skype : mathieu-66
gtalk : mathieu.lebreton@...
msn : mathieu66@...

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message 
in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.

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--
Christophe Hamerling
PEtALS ESB Research Engineer / Product Manager @ eBM WebSourcing
http://petals.ow2.org
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com
Phone : [phone]
Skype : christophe.hamerling

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