Exim/email-related stream at UKUUG conference, Birmingham, 7/8/9-August-2009

[Niall Mansfield-2]

Here's a summary of the e-mail topics being covered at the UKUUG
conference in  Birmingham next month:

 * Making Exim talk to an LDAP directory server.
    Jan-Piet Mens
* Converting 16,000 user mailboxes from MBOX to Maildir++.
    Ian Norton & Paul Tipper:
* Bayesian statistics and e-mail filtering.
    Yann Golanski
* Winning the war on spam.
    Ian Eiloart
and perhaps one or two others awaiting confirmation.

       The keynote talk is:

Why security engineering will just keep on getting harder
    Ross Anderson, University of Cambridge

The full programme is at:
    http://summer2009.ukuug.org.uk/Talks
and the five tutorials (Drupal, Arduino, LaTeX, GIMP, VoIP) at:
    http://summer2009.ukuug.org.uk/Tutorials

To attend, register at:
    http://summer2009.ukuug.org.uk/Registering


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[Alain Williams]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:38:01AM +0100, Niall Mansfield wrote:

>  On Jul 13,  8:55pm, Alain Williams wrote:
>  > Should there be a BOF/open session on exim maintainance -- which
>  > is decidedly down since Phil retired ?
>
> We can certainly arrange that if there is a demand.  We've booked extra
> rooms for BOFs and project-specific meetings, but we do need to know in
> advance roughly how many people are interested, so we can schedule the
> room, or include this as a talk in the regular streams.
>
> If you are interested, e-mail to exim-ukuug at uit dot co dot uk

I am interested. The latest exim (4.66) is 2 years old, if it gets much older
it will start to rot. I notice that 'tom' has been making changes ...

There are some nice BOF rooms at that venue.

I think that it would be very helpful if we were to prepare some kind
of outline on what we would like to achieve. I'll chuck in a few
suggestions to get the ball rolling:

* Bug fixes - how we prioritise

* Enhancements - what new features do we need

* External changes - should we collect/merge back in ?
  I am thinking of changes that Linux-distros/... may have made.

* Funding - could we pursuade some large corporates/... with a bit of funding
  that could be used to pay someone to do this -- perhaps part time.

I nominate Niall & myself as scribes of the event -- to try and get some
kind of report out to this list/whereever.

--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
[phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information: http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php
Past chairman of UKUUG: http://www.ukuug.org/
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[Martin A. Brooks-3]

On 16/07/2009 15:27, Alain Williams wrote:
> I am interested. The latest exim (4.66) is 2 years old, if it gets much older
> it will start to rot.
>    

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but ....

http://www.exim.org/version.html

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[Alain Williams]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:54:45PM +0100, Martin A. Brooks wrote:
> On 16/07/2009 15:27, Alain Williams wrote:
> >I am interested. The latest exim (4.66) is 2 years old, if it gets much
> >older
> >it will start to rot.
> >  
>
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding but ....
>
> http://www.exim.org/version.html

OK - I need some new specs, however 4.69 is 20 Dec 2009[**] - 1.5 years old, almost as bad.

[**] see: ftp://ftp.exim.org/pub/exim/exim4/

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[phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
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On 16/07/2009, Alain Williams <addw@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:54:45PM +0100, Martin A. Brooks wrote:
> > On 16/07/2009 15:27, Alain Williams wrote:
> > >I am interested. The latest exim (4.66) is 2 years old, if it gets much
> > >older
> > >it will start to rot.
> > >
> >
> > Maybe I'm misunderstanding but ....
> >
> > http://www.exim.org/version.html
>
> OK - I need some new specs, however 4.69 is 20 Dec 2009[**] - 1.5 years old, almost as bad.

ITYM 2007. Yes, old. But don't conflate old with bad. Whilst a release
is certainly overdue, it's a testament to the stability and maturity
of the Exim codebase that we don't need to see regular bugfix
releases.

Peter

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[Nigel Metheringham]

On 16 Jul 2009, at 16:02, Alain Williams wrote:

> OK - I need some new specs, however 4.69 is 20 Dec 2009[**] - 1.5  
> years old, almost as bad.


Is it 2011 already - doesn't time fly.

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[Heiner-5]

HiHo,

know this sounds a little strange but nonetheless:

I need to put a complete set of exim4 spool files (the *-D stuff) to one specific Mailbox (using Courier POP3). Is there any way to do it without delivering the mails using the exim daemon ?

there are several scripts to convert MBox to Mdir...but i want to convert spoolfiles to one specific Mdir for debugging purposes.

best regards

Heiner

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[Alain Williams]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 09:22:59AM +0100, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
>
> On 16 Jul 2009, at 16:02, Alain Williams wrote:
>
> >OK - I need some new specs, however 4.69 is 20 Dec 2009[**] - 1.5  
> >years old, almost as bad.
>
>
> Is it 2011 already - doesn't time fly.

Drat! 20 Dec 2007!

And someone please don't interpret '!' as factorial :-)

--
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
[phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information: http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php
Past chairman of UKUUG: http://www.ukuug.org/
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[Ian Eiloart]

--On 16 July 2009 16:02:22 +0100 Alain Williams <addw@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:54:45PM +0100, Martin A. Brooks wrote:
>> On 16/07/2009 15:27, Alain Williams wrote:
>> > I am interested. The latest exim (4.66) is 2 years old, if it gets
>> > much  older
>> > it will start to rot.
>> >
>>
>> Maybe I'm misunderstanding but ....
>>
>> http://www.exim.org/version.html
>
> OK - I need some new specs, however 4.69 is 20 Dec 2009[**] - 1.5 years
> old, almost as bad.

No, that's only -0.416 years, not -1.5 years old. (But, five months in the
future is still probably better than most software projects achieve! ;^)

Ah, 20 Dec 2007.

> [**] see: ftp://ftp.exim.org/pub/exim/exim4/
>
> --
> Alain Williams
> Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer,
> IT Lecturer. [phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
> Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information:
> http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php Past chairman of UKUUG:
> http://www.ukuug.org/
># include <std_disclaimer.h>

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01273-873148 x3148
For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/

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[Alain Williams]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:34:26AM +0100, Ian Eiloart wrote:

> No, that's only -0.416 years, not -1.5 years old. (But, five months in the
> future is still probably better than most software projects achieve! ;^)
>
> Ah, 20 Dec 2007.

Anyway - can I say sorry & please, pretty please, can we have suggestions
as to what we talk about when we discuss how we are to manage the future of
Exim next month.

To remind, my initial suggestions (I am certain that you can come up with better):

* Bug fixes - how we prioritise

* Enhancements - what new features do we need

* External changes - should we collect/merge back in ?
  I am thinking of changes that Linux-distros/... may have made.

* Funding - could we pursuade some large corporates/... with a bit of funding
  that could be used to pay someone to do this -- perhaps part time.


The conference details again:

        http://summer2009.ukuug.org/

I don't think that an conference talks timetable has been published yet.
Do you think that it would be useful to restrict the Exim BOF/sessions to
one of the 2 days, 8/9th (Sat/Sun), so that those who wanted to concentrate on
that could arrange to be there for 1 day ?

Regards

--
Alain Williams
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[phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
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[Ian Eiloart]

--On 16 July 2009 15:27:53 +0100 Alain Williams <addw@...> wrote:

> I think that it would be very helpful if we were to prepare some kind
> of outline on what we would like to achieve. I'll chuck in a few
> suggestions to get the ball rolling:
>
> * Bug fixes - how we prioritise
>
> * Enhancements - what new features do we need
>
> * External changes - should we collect/merge back in ?
>   I am thinking of changes that Linux-distros/... may have made.
>
> * Funding - could we pursuade some large corporates/... with a bit of
> funding   that could be used to pay someone to do this -- perhaps part
> time.

Clearly, funding (if achievable in the current climate) is going to make
the biggest difference, but we should also consider some other ways to
attract new developers, and new users (who may contribute):

* Easing the development process. I'm not a developer myself, so I'm not
sure what the technical barriers to involvement are.

* Marketing/Promotion: improving uptake of Exim might enlarge the potential
pool of developers, and of funding. The last research I saw put Exim behind
about 10 - 20% of MX hosts, which is great. We should trumpet that. An
overhaul of the web site, or an additional site, would be an option.

* Advertising: how about we put a link in every 5xx reply message. The link
would go to an Exim hosted page explaining (as far as we can) the cause of
the rejection. The root of the URL should be customisable, so that
administrators can point to their own web pages instead. Of course, we
could provide the default content for those pages, too. While we're at it,
we could meet one of the lemonade spec requirements by adding RFC2034
enhanced error codes. So far, that's just a feature request for improved
rejection messages, but all of the Exim hosted web pages could carry
advertising, and all of the default pages could carry promotional messages
for Exim, OSS concepts, etc.

* Improving ease of use (installation, configuration, queue management,
reporting)

* Auto-reporting. ClamAV, for example, can be configured to send
statistical reports to developers. That lets them track malware traffic and
use of ClamAV automatically. Exim is in a position to do the same, perhaps
reporting stats on traffic volumes, spam patterns, technology penetration,
etc. Perhaps that counts as a feature request, but it could also have some
mileage with regard to promotion. Care should be taken to protect privacy,
of course.

> I nominate Niall & myself as scribes of the event -- to try and get some
> kind of report out to this list/whereever.
>
> --
> Alain Williams
> Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer,
> IT Lecturer. [phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
> Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information:
> http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php Past chairman of UKUUG:
> http://www.ukuug.org/
># include <std_disclaimer.h>

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Ian Eiloart
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01273-873148 x3148
For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/

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[Niall Mansfield-5]

So far, only 3 people said are interested in Exin BOF :-(

Niall Mansfield
UIT Cambridge Ltd.
nmm@...
[phone]

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Jul 2009, at 11:10, Ian Eiloart <iane@...> wrote:

>
>
> --On 16 July 2009 15:27:53 +0100 Alain Williams <addw@...>  
> wrote:
>
>
>> I think that it would be very helpful if we were to prepare some kind
>> of outline on what we would like to achieve. I'll chuck in a few
>> suggestions to get the ball rolling:
>>
>> * Bug fixes - how we prioritise
>>
>> * Enhancements - what new features do we need
>>
>> * External changes - should we collect/merge back in ?
>>  I am thinking of changes that Linux-distros/... may have made.
>>
>> * Funding - could we pursuade some large corporates/... with a bit of
>> funding   that could be used to pay someone to do this -- perhaps  
>> part
>> time.
>
> Clearly, funding (if achievable in the current climate) is going to  
> make the biggest difference, but we should also consider some other  
> ways to attract new developers, and new users (who may contribute):
>
> * Easing the development process. I'm not a developer myself, so I'm  
> not sure what the technical barriers to involvement are.
>
> * Marketing/Promotion: improving uptake of Exim might enlarge the  
> potential pool of developers, and of funding. The last research I  
> saw put Exim behind about 10 - 20% of MX hosts, which is great. We  
> should trumpet that. An overhaul of the web site, or an additional  
> site, would be an option.
>
> * Advertising: how about we put a link in every 5xx reply message.  
> The link would go to an Exim hosted page explaining (as far as we  
> can) the cause of the rejection. The root of the URL should be  
> customisable, so that administrators can point to their own web  
> pages instead. Of course, we could provide the default content for  
> those pages, too. While we're at it, we could meet one of the  
> lemonade spec requirements by adding RFC2034 enhanced error codes.  
> So far, that's just a feature request for improved rejection  
> messages, but all of the Exim hosted web pages could carry  
> advertising, and all of the default pages could carry promotional  
> messages for Exim, OSS concepts, etc.
>
> * Improving ease of use (installation, configuration, queue  
> management, reporting)
>
> * Auto-reporting. ClamAV, for example, can be configured to send  
> statistical reports to developers. That lets them track malware  
> traffic and use of ClamAV automatically. Exim is in a position to do  
> the same, perhaps reporting stats on traffic volumes, spam patterns,  
> technology penetration, etc. Perhaps that counts as a feature  
> request, but it could also have some mileage with regard to  
> promotion. Care should be taken to protect privacy, of course.
>
>
>
>> I nominate Niall & myself as scribes of the event -- to try and get  
>> some
>> kind of report out to this list/whereever.
>>
>> --
>> Alain Williams
>> Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking,  
>> Programmer,
>> IT Lecturer. [phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
>> Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information:
>> http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php Past chairman of UKUUG:
>> http://www.ukuug.org/
>> # include <std_disclaimer.h>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Eiloart
> IT Services, University of Sussex
> 01273-873148 x3148
> For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/
>

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[Nigel Metheringham]

Please do not hijack threads - your message is now buried in the  
middle of another discussion, causing annoyance to both people  
interested in your message and those who want to follow the other  
thread.  You should start a new thread by composing a new message to  
the mailing list, not by replying to some other message and changing  
the subject.

Doing what you suggest is going to be a bad idea.  Nothing should be  
fiddling with spool files other than exim.

        Nigel.

On 17 Jul 2009, at 09:30, Heiner wrote:

> HiHo,
>
> know this sounds a little strange but nonetheless:
>
> I need to put a complete set of exim4 spool files (the *-D stuff) to  
> one specific Mailbox (using Courier POP3). Is there any way to do it  
> without delivering the mails using the exim daemon ?
>
> there are several scripts to convert MBox to Mdir...but i want to  
> convert spoolfiles to one specific Mdir for debugging purposes.
>
> best regards
>
> Heiner
>
> --
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> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>
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[Dave Evans-20]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:30:50AM +0200, Heiner wrote:
> I need to put a complete set of exim4 spool files (the *-D stuff) to one
> specific Mailbox (using Courier POP3). Is there any way to do it without
> delivering the mails using the exim daemon ?

Sure - use exim, but in the foreground :-)

Seriously though: I think the best method would be: shut down exim, make sure
there are no stray exim processes left around, copy the spool directory
somewhere (make sure you preserve uid/gid/mode), start exim up again.  Then,
using a separate exim config file, whose spool_directory points to the copy
you just made, deliver the messages into a Maildir, or wherever you want.

Hope this helps,

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[Heiko Schlittermann]

Heiner <Sengoku@...> (Fr 17 Jul 2009 10:30:50 CEST):
> HiHo,
>
> know this sounds a little strange but nonetheless:
>
> I need to put a complete set of exim4 spool files (the *-D stuff) to one specific Mailbox (using Courier POP3). Is there any way to do it without delivering the mails using the exim daemon ?
>

As stated by Nigel and Dave, the spool files should be touched by exim
only. Anything else might produce results you didn't expect.

But if you're sure about the things your're doing (avoiding concurrent
access, ...), you could do something like this:

    for id in $(exipick -i); do
        echo "From - `date`"
        exim4 -Mvc $id
    done > mbox

Of course, the delivery date will be wrong. And the above snipped
expects the mailbox in MBOX format, I'm not sure if this is true
for qourier.


> there are several scripts to convert MBox to Mdir...but i want to convert spoolfiles to one specific Mdir for debugging purposes.

Ah - here you're talking about MDIR.

    exipick -i | xargs -i -n1 sh -c "exim -Mvc {} >/tmp/mail/new/{}"

At least mutt accepts this as valid mdir (used mutt -f /tmp/mail).

"exim -Mvc" will refuse to "cat" the mail if an other exim process is
using it.

    Best regards from Dresden/Germany
    Viele Grüße aus Dresden
    Heiko Schlittermann
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[Ian Eiloart]

--On 17 July 2009 11:21:41 +0100 Niall Mansfield
<niall.mansfield@...> wrote:

> So far, only 3 people said are interested in Exin BOF :-(

Build it, and they will come. If we put enough marketing effort in. There
are a few Exim or email related talks, at which we could announce a BOF -
if the BOF is later in the weekend.

3 is better than 2, anyway.

> Niall Mansfield
> UIT Cambridge Ltd.
> nmm@...
> [phone]
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 11:10, Ian Eiloart <iane@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> --On 16 July 2009 15:27:53 +0100 Alain Williams <addw@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I think that it would be very helpful if we were to prepare some kind
>>> of outline on what we would like to achieve. I'll chuck in a few
>>> suggestions to get the ball rolling:
>>>
>>> * Bug fixes - how we prioritise
>>>
>>> * Enhancements - what new features do we need
>>>
>>> * External changes - should we collect/merge back in ?
>>>  I am thinking of changes that Linux-distros/... may have made.
>>>
>>> * Funding - could we pursuade some large corporates/... with a bit of
>>> funding   that could be used to pay someone to do this -- perhaps
>>> part
>>> time.
>>
>> Clearly, funding (if achievable in the current climate) is going to
>> make the biggest difference, but we should also consider some other
>> ways to attract new developers, and new users (who may contribute):
>>
>> * Easing the development process. I'm not a developer myself, so I'm
>> not sure what the technical barriers to involvement are.
>>
>> * Marketing/Promotion: improving uptake of Exim might enlarge the
>> potential pool of developers, and of funding. The last research I
>> saw put Exim behind about 10 - 20% of MX hosts, which is great. We
>> should trumpet that. An overhaul of the web site, or an additional
>> site, would be an option.
>>
>> * Advertising: how about we put a link in every 5xx reply message.
>> The link would go to an Exim hosted page explaining (as far as we
>> can) the cause of the rejection. The root of the URL should be
>> customisable, so that administrators can point to their own web
>> pages instead. Of course, we could provide the default content for
>> those pages, too. While we're at it, we could meet one of the
>> lemonade spec requirements by adding RFC2034 enhanced error codes.
>> So far, that's just a feature request for improved rejection
>> messages, but all of the Exim hosted web pages could carry
>> advertising, and all of the default pages could carry promotional
>> messages for Exim, OSS concepts, etc.
>>
>> * Improving ease of use (installation, configuration, queue
>> management, reporting)
>>
>> * Auto-reporting. ClamAV, for example, can be configured to send
>> statistical reports to developers. That lets them track malware
>> traffic and use of ClamAV automatically. Exim is in a position to do
>> the same, perhaps reporting stats on traffic volumes, spam patterns,
>> technology penetration, etc. Perhaps that counts as a feature
>> request, but it could also have some mileage with regard to
>> promotion. Care should be taken to protect privacy, of course.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I nominate Niall & myself as scribes of the event -- to try and get
>>> some
>>> kind of report out to this list/whereever.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alain Williams
>>> Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking,
>>> Programmer,
>>> IT Lecturer. [phone]  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/
>>> Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information:
>>> http://www.phcomp.co.uk/contact.php Past chairman of UKUUG:
>>> http://www.ukuug.org/
>>> # include <std_disclaimer.h>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian Eiloart
>> IT Services, University of Sussex
>> 01273-873148 x3148
>> For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/

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Ian Eiloart
IT Services, University of Sussex
01273-873148 x3148
For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/

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