Facelets 1.2

[Jacob Hookom]

Dave, your concerns are very fair-- I've been talking with Gavin and they are using even more of Facelets in their Seam stack, including the use of JBoss-EL which allows method invocation and has simple projections within Facelets templates and in Seam annotations.  Basically the adoption for Facelets is as big as ever (including a couple books coming out with Facelets content), I just need help with project maintenance/enhancements for a while.


>1) It's open source -- as you yourself stated in a previous message,
>you can make your own local patches.

This is true.  We've done this in the past and decided that this is our last
and least desirable option.

>2) Being "good enough" is the goal of all software.   I'll take "good
>enough" software with a slow maintenance cycle over "active community"
>and buggy/incomplete software any day.   When I put something in
>production, my goal is to not ever touch it again.   That's the real
>issue being asked in this thread -- should facelets be used?


>Even so, your comment about facelets not being worked on isn't
>correct.   Several patches were applied last month.

This is really great to hear and is very encouraging.

>Have you submitted any patches?

I haven't yet.  We were really waiting to see how things panned out.  Should I
patch against 1.1.2? 1.2? main line?
Since we're going to be using Seam, does Seam or will they soon support the
version I need to patch?


>Also note that the classes declared final were done so for a reason --
>to keep the public facelets api simple.   You will need to justify any
>removal of final beyond just submitting patches for your specific edge
>use case.

I understand the usage of final, and was only using it as an example of where I
had issues.  This is a case where keeping the api simple makes it less
flexible. Also, though ours may be an edge case, we are not the only ones
needed to work around this issue.  I was able to arrive at my current solution
because of the help I received from another user on the mailing list.

I don't mean to denigrate the work that is/has been done on Facelets nor the
developers that do it.  I really think its great, and can't wait until I can
get our app off of struts and onto something a little more modern.  I only mean
to highlight our adoption issues and concerns.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kienenberger [mailto:mkienenb@...]
Sent: Fri 6/1/2007 9:00 AM
To: users@...
Subject:  Re: Re: Re: Re: Facelets 1.2
 
1) It's open source -- as you yourself stated in a previous message,
you can make your own local patches.

2) Being "good enough" is the goal of all software.   I'll take "good
enough" software with a slow maintenance cycle over "active community"
and buggy/incomplete software any day.   When I put something in
production, my goal is to not ever touch it again.   That's the real
issue being asked in this thread -- should facelets be used?

Even so, your comment about facelets not being worked on isn't
correct.   Several patches were applied last month.

Have you submitted any patches?

Also note that the classes declared final were done so for a reason --
to keep the public facelets api simple.   You will need to justify any
removal of final beyond just submitting patches for your specific edge
use case.


On 6/1/07, Cracauer, Dave <dcracauer@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Talking about specific bugs and whether or not the current version is 'good
> enough' misses the point in my opinion. To me, the real issue is that
>  Facelets really isn't being worked on, and users have no way of providing
> patches.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Mike Kienenberger [mailto:mkienenb@...]
>  Sent: Fri 6/1/2007 8:36 AM
>  To: users@...
>  Subject:  Re: Re: Re: Facelets 1.2
>
>  The ui:repeat issue is caused by a bug in the Sun JVM.   Read the issue.
>
>  On 5/31/07, TRIFILETTI, Mel <mel.TRIFILETTI@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Isn't there a major issue with 1.1.11 where ui:repeats suddenly stop
>  > working. I have been waiting for release which includes the patch for
>  > sometime...
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Jesse Alexander (KSFD 121)
>  > [mailto:alexander.jesse@...]
>  > Sent: Friday, 1 June 2007 3:10 AM
>  > To: users@...
>  > Subject: RE: Re: Re: Facelets 1.2
>  >
>  > Same applies here... 1.1.11 perfectly stable with SUN-RI JSF 1.2 on a
>  > J2EE 1.4 appserver.
>  >
>  > And for longterm security there is the manifested will to see
>  > facelets-stuff in JSF 2.0
>  >
>  > regards
>  > Alexander
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Mike Kienenberger [mailto:mkienenb@...]
>  > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:57 PM
>  > To: users@...
>  > Subject: Re: Re: Facelets 1.2
>  >
>  > There's a couple of minor features I'd like to see in 1.1.x (ability to
>  > specify generic attribute names explicitly in the taglib.xml and ability
>  > to specify method binding signatures in the taglib.xml file), but I
>  > haven't felt motivated enough yet to sit down and create a patch.
>  >
>  > 1.1.11 is perfectly stable for my needs and I wouldn't be motivated to
>  > upgrade at this point in time.
>  >
>  > On 5/31/07, Brian Smith <unobriani@...> wrote:
>  > > I think the prevailing school of thought is Facelets 1.1.11 is quite
>  > stable
>  > > and there is a wait and see attitude when it comes to JSF 2.0 (it may
>  > > incorporate some or much of facelets), which would make developing a
>  > new
>  > > version of Facelets sort of a waste of time.
>  > >
>  > > Just my perception
>  > >
>  > > -Brian
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > On 5/31/07, Jason Suplizio <suplizio@...> wrote:
>  > > > Is this thread dead? There still are several questions left
>  > unanswered -
>  > > which adds a good deal of FUD around Facelets.
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > On 5/29/07, Cracauer, Dave < dcracauer@...> wrote:
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > I'm going to jump into this one and share my experience with the
>  > > project.  We have some special needs from a templating system (I won't
>  > get
>  > > into them here.)  We currently have an internally modified version of
>  > Tiles
>  > > that we use with our Struts application.  We want to move our
>  > development to
>  > > Seam/Facelets, but we need to be able to support the same
>  > functionality.
>  > > There are a few changes to Facelets that would make this much easier.
>  > For
>  > > example, there are a couple classes (can't recall off of the top of my
>  > head)
>  > > that are final that we could subclass to fit our needs.  I've verified
>  > this
>  > > by building my own version of Facelets and building a small prototype.
>  > It
>  > > would also be nice if our custom resource resolver was always called (
>  > it
>  > > doesn't seem to be for source tags, or when referring to a template .)
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Even if we didn't have these needs, I would still have concerns
>  > about
>  > > using Facelets for our new projects.  When planning a project, I like
>  > to be
>  > > sure that if we run across a bug in the libraries we are using, it
>  > will get
>  > > fixed.  We're willing to fix bugs, but I haven't seen a process for
>  > getting
>  > > patches applied.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Unfortunately (or fortunately), since Facelets is so much better
>  > than
>  > > JSP when using JSF, we're faced with the potential of managing our own
>  >
>  > > internal branch of Facelets if we need to make changes.  We don't like
>  > this,
>  > > but we'll probably end up doing it.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > > > From: Andrew Robinson
>  > > [mailto:andrew.rw.robinson@...]
>  > > > > Sent: Tue 5/29/2007 11:17 AM
>  > > > > To: users@...
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Subject:  Re: Facelets 1.2
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Why do you need facelets 1.2? What in 1.1.x doesn't fit your
>  > > requirements?
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Facelets has been really stable for us and I haven't been waiting
>  > for
>  > > > > a new release at all. In fact, I was perfectly happy on 1.0.14
>  > until
>  > > > > another 3rd party control required us to upgrade to 1.1.x.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > The only concern should be bug fix turn around time I would think
>  > and
>  > > > > not new features. In that case I haven't seen any bug fixes in
>  > quite a
>  > > > > while, but then again I haven't hit any of the bugs.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > -Andrew
>  > > > >
>  > > > > On 5/29/07, mike.sauer@... < mike.sauer@...>
>  > wrote:
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > For those of us evaluating facelets for recommendation for use
>  > in our
>  > > > > > organizations it is troubling that questions such as these
>  > regarding
>  > > the
>  > > > > > status/roadmap of facelets go unanswered.  Can anyone please
>  > provide
>  > > some
>  > > > > > reassurance and updates?
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > >On 5/22/07, Jason Suplizio <suplizio@...> wrote:
>  > > > > >  >
>  > > > > > >I need to know that as well (even a ballpark). We're putting a
>  > > timeline
>  > > > > >  >together for facelets adoption and this is very important to
>  > us.
>  > > > > >  >
>  > > > > >  >
>  > > > > >  >On 5/22/07, Ian Springer <ian.springer@...> wrote:
>  > > > > >  >>
>  > > > > >  >> Hello Jacob,
>  > > > > >  >>
>  > > > > >  >> What new features are planned for Facelets 1.2 and is there
>  > an
>  > > estimate
>  > > > > >  >> for when it will be released?
>  > > > > >  >>
>  > > > > >  >> Thanks.
>  > > > > >  >> Ian
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>  > > users-help@...
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > --
>  > > > "Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Ganhdi
>  > > >
>  > > > "Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified,
>  > is not
>  > > a crime. "
>  > > > Earnest Hemingway
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
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[Ian Hlavats-2]

Hi Jason,

 

When you say attach the patch, can we simply copy and paste source code into the issue report, or is there a specific format you are looking for (eg. diff command output)?

 

For example, here is an issue I filed back in January complete with source code that has yet to be resolved:

 

https://facelets.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=205

 

I would love to be a Facelets committer and have been around on the list reporting issues since well before Facelets 1.0. :-)

 

Where do I sign up for CVS commit rights?

 

Ian

 

--
Ian Hlavats

FaceletsTools for Dreamweaver

http://www.jsftoolbox.com/products/facelets

---

From: Jason Lee [mailto:jason@...]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:54 AM
To: users@...
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Facelets 1.2

On 6/1/07, Cracauer, Dave <dcracauer@...> wrote:

Talking about specific bugs and whether or not the current version is 'good enough' misses the point in my opinion. To me, the real issue is that Facelets really isn't being worked on, and users have no way of providing patches.

I hate to be pedantic, but you *do* have a way to submit patches:  file an issue and attach the patch.  Getting it applied might be trickier, but I'm sure with a little persistence, it wouldn't be too hard to get commit privs to the tree.

--
Jason Lee, SCJP
JSF RI Dev Team
http://blogs.steeplesoft.com

[Mikhail Grushinskiy-2]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

I've been using facelets with JSF over a year and it IS much better than JSP with JSF. However there is number of limitations:

1. Facelets source tag (which is very important feature) have problems with EL expression evaluation such as validation
    doesn't work if component is defined in the source tag

2. Source tag only support value binding. So if you need to pass action binding into tag via EL get ready to do some hacks in Java

3. Packaging of user defined source tag into jar is not documented (so there is a lot of time required to resolve this if you need to)

4. c:if causes major confusion (as it is evaluated not at render time)

5. It would be nicer if EL functions library was more elaborate than now. I have to constantly create new very basic functions
    as concat, trim and so on

6. Including output of legacy JSP output into produced page is a pain

7. All JSF components libraries have to have taglib.xml file to work with facelets (and they usually do not provide it in
   distributions ex: tomahawk, woodstock) So the barrier to start using it is quite steep due to configuration issues

8. Let's imagine you wrote big library of source tags. How would you document it for you customer? input attributes are not defined 
    anywhere.

9. There is no way to validate things at compile time. You actually have to test every page for things like if your bean or property exists
   and you spelled it properly. This is largely JSF problem too.

10. There are many things which could be improved (ex something like defining common interface  (set of attributes) for  number of tags)
 Currently there is no way of doing it. And there is no progress in improvements

11. Performance and memory utilization could have been better (as always, and which is largely JSF problem (look at Google web toolkit)).

12. Might it is time to take some advantage in facelets of using Java 5 features

I'm sure other people can add to this list

JBoss Seam progress is heavily dependent on facelets so might be JBoss could to something to remedy the situation with lack of evolution in current facelets.
 
Facelets is a very good project which now suffers due to lack of evolution which it needs.

Please, keep it going...
Thanks

On 6/1/07, Ian Hlavats <ian@...> wrote:

Hi Jason,

 

When you say attach the patch, can we simply copy and paste source code into the issue report, or is there a specific format you are looking for (eg. diff command output)?

 

For example, here is an issue I filed back in January complete with source code that has yet to be resolved:

 

https://facelets.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=205

 

I would love to be a Facelets committer and have been around on the list reporting issues since well before Facelets 1.0. :-)

 

Where do I sign up for CVS commit rights?

 

Ian

 

--
Ian Hlavats

FaceletsTools for Dreamweaver

http://www.jsftoolbox.com/products/facelets

---

From: Jason Lee [mailto:jason@...]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:54 AM
To: users@...
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Facelets 1.2

On 6/1/07, Cracauer, Dave <dcracauer@...> wrote:

Talking about specific bugs and whether or not the current version is 'good enough' misses the point in my opinion. To me, the real issue is that Facelets really isn't being worked on, and users have no way of providing patches.

I hate to be pedantic, but you *do* have a way to submit patches:  file an issue and attach the patch.  Getting it applied might be trickier, but I'm sure with a little persistence, it wouldn't be too hard to get commit privs to the tree.

--
Jason Lee, SCJP
JSF RI Dev Team
http://blogs.steeplesoft.com

[Andrew Robinson-5]

Reply in line

On 6/1/07, Mikhail Grushinskiy <mgrushinskiy@...> wrote:
> I've been using facelets with JSF over a year and it IS much better than JSP
> with JSF. However there is number of limitations:
>
> 1. Facelets source tag (which is very important feature) have problems with
> EL expression evaluation such as validation
>     doesn't work if component is defined in the source tag

I haven't had this issue, are you trying to pass validator method
bindings? If, so see response to #2

> 2. Source tag only support value binding. So if you need to pass action
> binding into tag via EL get ready to do some hacks in Java

See my blog for a solution to this:
http://andrewfacelets.blogspot.com/2006/06/creating-composite-controls-with-jsf.html
or http://tinyurl.com/3a2hr7

> 3. Packaging of user defined source tag into jar is not documented (so there
> is a lot of time required to resolve this if you need to)

Isn't a taglib.xml file documentation enough on where to find the source tags?

> 4. c:if causes major confusion (as it is evaluated not at render time)

That is only because people fail to read the facelets documentation
which states that you should avoid using JSTL tags unless you know
exactly what you are doing

> 5. It would be nicer if EL functions library was more elaborate than now. I
> have to constantly create new very basic functions
>     as concat, trim and so on

I don't fee that this is the job of facelets (or at least the main
job), but rather an EL utility library. Maybe something like
jsf-facelets-el.jar

> 6. Including output of legacy JSP output into produced page is a pain

Sounds like an easy fix. Perhaps a <ui:includeDispatch src="url" /> tag?

> 7. All JSF components libraries have to have taglib.xml file to work with
> facelets (and they usually do not provide it in
>    distributions ex: tomahawk, woodstock) So the barrier to start using it
> is quite steep due to configuration issues

This is due to lack of support from the community, not facelets. I
have been trying to get MyFaces to provide this, but I can't get a
movement started there.

> 8. Let's imagine you wrote big library of source tags. How would you
> document it for you customer? input attributes are not defined
>     anywhere.

This one could be harder. Perhaps something that can produce TLD files
from parsing taglib.xml and source tag files and then use the TLD to
generate the docs from?

> 9. There is no way to validate things at compile time. You actually have to
> test every page for things like if your bean or property exists
>    and you spelled it properly. This is largely JSF problem too.

This is a problem with any code that crosses a boundary. SQL for
example doesn't have compile time checking either. This is a EL issue
not a facelets issue though.

> 10. There are many things which could be improved (ex something like
> defining common interface  (set of attributes) for  number of tags)
>  Currently there is no way of doing it. And there is no progress in
> improvements

What do you mean for this? Facelets lets you add attribute arbitrarily
to components. If you mean a common set of attributes for components,
than that is a component library issue not a facelets one. Tomahawk
and A4J use component code generators to build theirs, perhaps this is
what you want? I don't see that as a role of facelets though as it is
not a component library, but a JSF view handler library.

> 11. Performance and memory utilization could have been better (as always,
> and which is largely JSF problem (look at Google web toolkit)).

Agreed, but I think we can wait for JSF 2.0 to address this and this
is also more of a JSF issue than a facelets one. In fact facelet's
performance is better than JSF's

> 12. Might it is time to take some advantage in facelets of using Java 5
> features

See my 1.5 support for facelets:
http://jsf-comp.sourceforge.net/components/facelets-deployment/index.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/2k55u4

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[Mikhail Grushinskiy-2]

Reply inline

On 6/2/07, Andrew Robinson <andrew.rw.robinson@...> wrote:

Reply in line

On 6/1/07, Mikhail Grushinskiy <mgrushinskiy@...> wrote:
> I've been using facelets with JSF over a year and it IS much better than JSP
> with JSF. However there is number of limitations:
>
> 1. Facelets source tag (which is very important feature) have problems with
> EL expression evaluation such as validation
>     doesn't work if component is defined in the source tag

I haven't had this issue, are you trying to pass validator method
bindings? If, so see response to #2

Look here about this issue
http://www.jboss.org/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=109342

> 2. Source tag only support value binding. So if you need to pass action
> binding into tag via EL get ready to do some hacks in Java

See my blog for a solution to this:
http://andrewfacelets.blogspot.com/2006/06/creating-composite-controls-with-jsf.html
or http://tinyurl.com/3a2hr7

Yes this is working solution which looks like a hack. Facelets should have had something so no java
coding is needed for that on the part of facelets user.

> 3. Packaging of user defined source tag into jar is not documented (so there
> is a lot of time required to resolve this if you need to)

Isn't a taglib.xml file documentation enough on where to find the source tags?

And if you jar all your source tags will the app pick it up from jar archive or you need to do extra work? 

> 4. c:if causes major confusion (as it is evaluated not at render time)

That is only because people fail to read the facelets documentation
which states that you should avoid using JSTL tags unless you know
exactly what you are doing

Still for most people when they see 'if' they expect it work different way than it behaves now.
And when they see it it is hard to understand what is going on cause it is kinda 'works but sometimes'

> 5. It would be nicer if EL functions library was more elaborate than now. I
> have to constantly create new very basic functions
>     as concat, trim and so on

I don't fee that this is the job of facelets (or at least the main
job), but rather an EL utility library. Maybe something like
jsf-facelets-el.jar

> 6. Including output of legacy JSP output into produced page is a pain

Sounds like an easy fix. Perhaps a <ui:includeDispatch src="url" /> tag?

> 7. All JSF components libraries have to have taglib.xml file to work with
> facelets (and they usually do not provide it in
>    distributions ex: tomahawk, woodstock) So the barrier to start using it
> is quite steep due to configuration issues

This is due to lack of support from the community, not facelets. I
have been trying to get MyFaces to provide this, but I can't get a
movement started there.

> 8. Let's imagine you wrote big library of source tags. How would you
> document it for you customer? input attributes are not defined
>     anywhere.

This one could be harder. Perhaps something that can produce TLD files
from parsing taglib.xml and source tag files and then use the TLD to
generate the docs from?

Maybe source tag should include definition of parameters (as it was in jstl source tags)?

> 9. There is no way to validate things at compile time. You actually have to
> test every page for things like if your bean or property exists
>    and you spelled it properly. This is largely JSF problem too.

This is a problem with any code that crosses a boundary. SQL for
example doesn't have compile time checking either. This is a EL issue
not a facelets issue though.

> 10. There are many things which could be improved (ex something like
> defining common interface  (set of attributes) for  number of tags)
>  Currently there is no way of doing it. And there is no progress in
> improvements

What do you mean for this? Facelets lets you add attribute arbitrarily
to components. If you mean a common set of attributes for components,
than that is a component library issue not a facelets one. Tomahawk
and A4J use component code generators to build theirs, perhaps this is
what you want? I don't see that as a role of facelets though as it is
not a component library, but a JSF view handler library.

Writing JSF component in Java is not easy, that's why there are not that many component libraries out there.
Facelets allows you simplify it with source tags. But source tags do not have definition of their attributes.
So if you like to create a library of those tags and integrate it with IDE as eclipse so in editor
you would type first letters of the tag attribute and it gives you dropdown of what attributes are available.
How would you do that?

> 11. Performance and memory utilization could have been better (as always,
> and which is largely JSF problem (look at Google web toolkit)).

Agreed, but I think we can wait for JSF 2.0 to address this and this
is also more of a JSF issue than a facelets one. In fact facelet's
performance is better than JSF's

> 12. Might it is time to take some advantage in facelets of using Java 5
> features

See my 1.5 support for facelets:
http://jsf-comp.sourceforge.net/components/facelets-deployment/index.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/2k55u4

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[Mikhail Grushinskiy-2]

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And some more regarding this:

> 9. There is no way to validate things at compile time. You actually have to
> test every page for things like if your bean or property exists
>    and you spelled it properly. This is largely JSF problem too.

This is a problem with any code that crosses a boundary. SQL for
example doesn't have compile time checking either. This is a EL issue
not a facelets issue though.

MG>

Java 5 generics introduced typed collections into java which is a big leap. Less errors at runtime.
The way EL/JSF handles bean properties (no checks at deploy time, or at some stage before runtime)
is a step backward. And these checks could be done before run-time.
Ex in seam you would annotate bean using @Name so name of the bean is known at compile time.
And you have EL expression #{myBean.typoInProperty }. The typo in property name could be
found out before run-time, but there is nothing currently which would do it. Right now you will only discover
such mistakes when you access the page, which could have been avoided and prevented well in advance.

On 6/2/07, Mikhail Grushinskiy <mgrushinskiy@...> wrote:

Reply inline

On 6/2/07, Andrew Robinson <andrew.rw.robinson@...> wrote:

Reply in line

On 6/1/07, Mikhail Grushinskiy <mgrushinskiy@...> wrote:
> I've been using facelets with JSF over a year and it IS much better than JSP
> with JSF. However there is number of limitations:
>
> 1. Facelets source tag (which is very important feature) have problems with
> EL expression evaluation such as validation
>     doesn't work if component is defined in the source tag

I haven't had this issue, are you trying to pass validator method
bindings? If, so see response to #2

Look here about this issue
http://www.jboss.org/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=109342

> 2. Source tag only support value binding. So if you need to pass action
> binding into tag via EL get ready to do some hacks in Java

See my blog for a solution to this:
http://andrewfacelets.blogspot.com/2006/06/creating-composite-controls-with-jsf.html
or http://tinyurl.com/3a2hr7

Yes this is working solution which looks like a hack. Facelets should have had something so no java
coding is needed for that on the part of facelets user.

> 3. Packaging of user defined source tag into jar is not documented (so there
> is a lot of time required to resolve this if you need to)

Isn't a taglib.xml file documentation enough on where to find the source tags?

And if you jar all your source tags will the app pick it up from jar archive or you need to do extra work? 

> 4. c:if causes major confusion (as it is evaluated not at render time)

That is only because people fail to read the facelets documentation
which states that you should avoid using JSTL tags unless you know
exactly what you are doing

Still for most people when they see 'if' they expect it work different way than it behaves now.
And when they see it it is hard to understand what is going on cause it is kinda 'works but sometimes'

> 5. It would be nicer if EL functions library was more elaborate than now. I
> have to constantly create new very basic functions
>     as concat, trim and so on

I don't fee that this is the job of facelets (or at least the main
job), but rather an EL utility library. Maybe something like
jsf-facelets-el.jar

> 6. Including output of legacy JSP output into produced page is a pain

Sounds like an easy fix. Perhaps a <ui:includeDispatch src="url" /> tag?

> 7. All JSF components libraries have to have taglib.xml file to work with
> facelets (and they usually do not provide it in
>    distributions ex: tomahawk, woodstock) So the barrier to start using it
> is quite steep due to configuration issues

This is due to lack of support from the community, not facelets. I
have been trying to get MyFaces to provide this, but I can't get a
movement started there.

> 8. Let's imagine you wrote big library of source tags. How would you
> document it for you customer? input attributes are not defined
>     anywhere.

This one could be harder. Perhaps something that can produce TLD files
from parsing taglib.xml and source tag files and then use the TLD to
generate the docs from?

Maybe source tag should include definition of parameters (as it was in jstl source tags)?

> 9. There is no way to validate things at compile time. You actually have to
> test every page for things like if your bean or property exists
>    and you spelled it properly. This is largely JSF problem too.

This is a problem with any code that crosses a boundary. SQL for
example doesn't have compile time checking either. This is a EL issue
not a facelets issue though.

> 10. There are many things which could be improved (ex something like
> defining common interface  (set of attributes) for  number of tags)
>  Currently there is no way of doing it. And there is no progress in
> improvements

What do you mean for this? Facelets lets you add attribute arbitrarily
to components. If you mean a common set of attributes for components,
than that is a component library issue not a facelets one. Tomahawk
and A4J use component code generators to build theirs, perhaps this is
what you want? I don't see that as a role of facelets though as it is
not a component library, but a JSF view handler library.

Writing JSF component in Java is not easy, that's why there are not that many component libraries out there.
Facelets allows you simplify it with source tags. But source tags do not have definition of their attributes.
So if you like to create a library of those tags and integrate it with IDE as eclipse so in editor
you would type first letters of the tag attribute and it gives you dropdown of what attributes are available.
How would you do that?

> 11. Performance and memory utilization could have been better (as always,
> and which is largely JSF problem (look at Google web toolkit)).

Agreed, but I think we can wait for JSF 2.0 to address this and this
is also more of a JSF issue than a facelets one. In fact facelet's
performance is better than JSF's

> 12. Might it is time to take some advantage in facelets of using Java 5
> features

See my 1.5 support for facelets:
http://jsf-comp.sourceforge.net/components/facelets-deployment/index.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/2k55u4

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[Mike Kienenberger]

On 6/2/07, Andrew Robinson <andrew.rw.robinson@...> wrote:
> > 7. All JSF components libraries have to have taglib.xml file to work with
> > facelets (and they usually do not provide it in
> >    distributions ex: tomahawk, woodstock) So the barrier to start using it
> > is quite steep due to configuration issues
>
> This is due to lack of support from the community, not facelets. I
> have been trying to get MyFaces to provide this, but I can't get a
> movement started there.

This has been due to a lack of build infrastructure in Tomahawk
capable of dynamically-generating taglib (and tld, jsp tag handler,
faces-config) files.

I saw a new scratch branch created for Tomahawk 2 last week, and one
of the discussed goals of that branch is to use the Trinidad build
infrastructure to for Tomahawk.

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[Murray Brandon-2]

Hi folks,

Does anyone know of a "PetStore" style example application that uses
Facelets, MyFaces, Spring and Hibernate all in one?
I've just spent the weekend wrestling with weird exceptions and
spring-jsf without success.

It doesn't have to be a full petstore of course, as I can hook Hibernate
in myself.
A simple .war that works end to end would save everyone a lot of time.

Cheers, Murray

--
Murray Brandon
Ph: 0418-murray
Hyro Limited
2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121

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[Andrew Robinson-5]

Although not an answer to your issue at all, JBoss-Seam has nice
examples if you would consider using it over Spring

On 6/17/07, Murray Brandon <murray.brandon@...> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Does anyone know of a "PetStore" style example application that uses
> Facelets, MyFaces, Spring and Hibernate all in one?
> I've just spent the weekend wrestling with weird exceptions and
> spring-jsf without success.
>
> It doesn't have to be a full petstore of course, as I can hook Hibernate
> in myself.
> A simple .war that works end to end would save everyone a lot of time.
>
> Cheers, Murray
>
> --
> Murray Brandon
> Ph: 0418-murray
> Hyro Limited
> 2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>
>

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[Martin Marinschek]

Hi guys,

google for "faces goodies", and you'll find the coolest Faces-sample
app on earth!

regards,

Martin

On 6/18/07, Andrew Robinson <andrew.rw.robinson@...> wrote:

> Although not an answer to your issue at all, JBoss-Seam has nice
> examples if you would consider using it over Spring
>
> On 6/17/07, Murray Brandon <murray.brandon@...> wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Does anyone know of a "PetStore" style example application that uses
> > Facelets, MyFaces, Spring and Hibernate all in one?
> > I've just spent the weekend wrestling with weird exceptions and
> > spring-jsf without success.
> >
> > It doesn't have to be a full petstore of course, as I can hook Hibernate
> > in myself.
> > A simple .war that works end to end would save everyone a lot of time.
> >
> > Cheers, Murray
> >
> > --
> > Murray Brandon
> > Ph: 0418-murray
> > Hyro Limited
> > 2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

--

http://www.irian.at

Your JSF powerhouse -
JSF Consulting, Development and
Courses in English and German

Professional Support for Apache MyFaces

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[Murray Brandon-2]

Wow, "Faces Goodies" is a pretty good example.
..and a DAO as well.  Very nice!

Martin Marinschek wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> google for "faces goodies", and you'll find the coolest Faces-sample
> app on earth!
>
> regards,
>
> Martin
>
> On 6/18/07, Andrew Robinson <andrew.rw.robinson@...> wrote:
>> Although not an answer to your issue at all, JBoss-Seam has nice
>> examples if you would consider using it over Spring
>>
>> On 6/17/07, Murray Brandon <murray.brandon@...> wrote:
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > Does anyone know of a "PetStore" style example application that uses
>> > Facelets, MyFaces, Spring and Hibernate all in one?
>> > I've just spent the weekend wrestling with weird exceptions and
>> > spring-jsf without success.
>> >
>> > It doesn't have to be a full petstore of course, as I can hook
>> Hibernate
>> > in myself.
>> > A simple .war that works end to end would save everyone a lot of time.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Murray
>> >
>> > --
>> > Murray Brandon
>> > Ph: 0418-murray
>> > Hyro Limited
>> > 2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>>
>>
>
>

--
Murray Brandon
Ph: 0418-murray
Hyro Limited
2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121

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[kito99]

There's also a sample app called ProjectTrack
(http://code.google.com/p/projecttrack/). It's the case study from my book
(a Project Tracking app) using Spring, ACEGI, and Hibernate.

We need to do some cleanup in terms of distribution, though (there's no zip
file -- you have to check it out from SVN).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kito D. Mann - Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info

* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Murray Brandon [mailto:murray.brandon@...]
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:36 AM
> To: users@...
> Subject: Re: Facelets/MyFaces/Spring/Hibernate Petstore example
> application?
>
> Wow, "Faces Goodies" is a pretty good example.
> ..and a DAO as well.  Very nice!
>
> Martin Marinschek wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > google for "faces goodies", and you'll find the coolest Faces-sample
> > app on earth!
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On 6/18/07, Andrew Robinson <andrew.rw.robinson@...> wrote:
> >> Although not an answer to your issue at all, JBoss-Seam has nice
> >> examples if you would consider using it over Spring
> >>
> >> On 6/17/07, Murray Brandon <murray.brandon@...> wrote:
> >> > Hi folks,
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone know of a "PetStore" style example application that
> uses
> >> > Facelets, MyFaces, Spring and Hibernate all in one?
> >> > I've just spent the weekend wrestling with weird exceptions and
> >> > spring-jsf without success.
> >> >
> >> > It doesn't have to be a full petstore of course, as I can hook
> >> Hibernate
> >> > in myself.
> >> > A simple .war that works end to end would save everyone a lot of
> time.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers, Murray
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Murray Brandon
> >> > Ph: 0418-murray
> >> > Hyro Limited
> >> > 2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Murray Brandon
> Ph: 0418-murray
> Hyro Limited
> 2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...

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[Thai]

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The ProjectTrack uses JSF, Spring, Hibernate, and Acegi Security, i.e. no Facelets and jsp pages are used.

Does anybody know of any example of Facelets and Acegi (I don't care about other things like Spring, JPA .....)? There's an article about JSF with Acegi at http://cagataycivici.wordpress.com/2006/01/19/acegi_jsf_components_hit_the/ but there's no example :(

----- Original Message ----
From: Kito D. Mann <kmann@...>
To: users@...
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:21:14 PM
Subject: RE: Facelets/MyFaces/Spring/Hibernate Petstore example application?

There's also a sample app called ProjectTrack
(http://code.google.com/p/projecttrack/). It's the case study from my book
(a Project Tracking app) using Spring, ACEGI, and Hibernate.

We need to do some cleanup in terms of distribution, though (there's no zip
file -- you have to check it out from SVN).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kito D. Mann - Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info

* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Murray Brandon [mailto:murray.brandon@...]
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:36 AM
> To: users@...
> Subject: Re: Facelets/MyFaces/Spring/Hibernate Petstore example
> application?
>
> Wow, "Faces Goodies" is a pretty good example.
> ..and a DAO as well.  Very nice!
>
> Martin Marinschek wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > google for "faces goodies", and you'll find the coolest Faces-sample
> > app on earth!
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On 6/18/07, Andrew Robinson <andrew.rw.robinson@...> wrote:
> >> Although not an answer to your issue at all, JBoss-Seam has nice
> >> examples if you would consider using it over Spring
> >>
> >> On 6/17/07, Murray Brandon <murray.brandon@...> wrote:
> >> > Hi folks,
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone know of a "PetStore" style example application that
> uses
> >> > Facelets, MyFaces, Spring and Hibernate all in one?
> >> > I've just spent the weekend wrestling with weird exceptions and
> >> > spring-jsf without success.
> >> >
> >> > It doesn't have to be a full petstore of course, as I can hook
> >> Hibernate
> >> > in myself.
> >> > A simple .war that works end to end would save everyone a lot of
> time.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers, Murray
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Murray Brandon
> >> > Ph: 0418-murray
> >> > Hyro Limited
> >> > 2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Murray Brandon
> Ph: 0418-murray
> Hyro Limited
> 2 Adelaide St, Richmond, VIC 3121
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
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