Fan control ?

[nse]

hi guys

I have a small problem with my Lenny install on a TiBook(400Mhz) ....
The fan is always running....

And as much as I expect it to come whenever needed... Having it on  
even though you have a load of "0,00 0,00 0,01" ... is a bit too  
much....

Any ideas ??


kind regards

nse

"Ach, crivens, what a wee snotter....."

Quote from "The Wee Free Men" by Terry Pratchett


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[Shawn H Corey]

Niels S. Eliasen wrote:
> hi guys
>
> I have a small problem with my Lenny install on a TiBook(400Mhz) ....
> The fan is always running....
>
> And as much as I expect it to come whenever needed... Having it on even
> though you have a load of "0,00 0,00 0,01" ... is a bit too much....
>
> Any ideas ??

The obvious question: is the machine hot?  That is, is the fan running
because it should?

If so, then the question is what is the machine doing that its CPU is
running all the time?

If not, then what process turned on the fan and forgot to turn it off?


--
Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
   Shawn

Programming is as much about organization and communication
as it is about coding.

I like Perl; it's the only language where you can bless your
thingy.


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[nse]

Hi Shawn
Den 07/09/2009 kl. 13.44 skrev Shawn H Corey:

> Niels S. Eliasen wrote:
>> hi guys
>> I have a small problem with my Lenny install on a TiBook(400Mhz) ....
>> The fan is always running....
>> And as much as I expect it to come whenever needed... Having it on  
>> even though you have a load of "0,00 0,00 0,01" ... is a bit too  
>> much....
>> Any ideas ??
>
> The obvious question: is the machine hot?  That is, is the fan  
> running because it should?

Yes.. that is a fairly obvious question... which I should have  
mentioned in my original post....
No .. it is not hot...... warm.. yes!.. but more like "warm as in  
working..." ... but hot no!
>
> If so, then the question is what is the machine doing that its CPU  
> is running all the time?
hmmm.... "something" is obviously running that causes this... but what  
exactly... and I tried .. just for the heck of it...
to reboot the Tibook.. and see if that would shutdown the fan... but  
no!... the fan was/is on all the time..... during reboot even!
>
> If not, then what process turned on the fan and forgot to turn it off?
exactly! but how to tell ?

>
>
> --
> Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
>  Shawn
>
> Programming is as much about organization and communication
> as it is about coding.
>
> I like Perl; it's the only language where you can bless your
> thingy.
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-powerpc-REQUEST@...
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
>

kind regards

nse

"Ach, crivens, what a wee snotter....."

Quote from "The Wee Free Men" by Terry Pratchett


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[Shawn H Corey]

Niels S. Eliasen wrote:

> No .. it is not hot...... warm.. yes!.. but more like "warm as in
> working..." ... but hot no!
>>
>> If so, then the question is what is the machine doing that its CPU is
>> running all the time?
> hmmm.... "something" is obviously running that causes this... but what
> exactly... and I tried .. just for the heck of it...
> to reboot the Tibook.. and see if that would shutdown the fan... but
> no!... the fan was/is on all the time..... during reboot even!
>>
>> If not, then what process turned on the fan and forgot to turn it off?
> exactly! but how to tell ?

Actually, I was asking those questions hoping to narrow down what was
happening.

To find out which process is using the most CPU time, run `top`.  (To
quit, press 'q'.)  Once you get its process id (pid), run `ps -AH` to
see if its dependent on anything.

On the other hand, if it's running because it was forgotten, I would
look at the power management processes.


--
Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
   Shawn

Programming is as much about organization and communication
as it is about coding.

I like Perl; it's the only language where you can bless your
thingy.


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[nse]

> top - 14:25:43 up 17:31,  5 users,  load average: 0.17, 0.11, 0.06
> Tasks: 180 total,   1 running, 179 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> Cpu(s):  3.9%us,  1.3%sy,  0.0%ni, 94.5%id,  0.0%wa,  0.3%hi,  
> 0.0%si,  0.0%st
> Mem:   1033084k total,   986920k used,    46164k free,    14912k  
> buffers
> Swap:  1380344k total,      120k used,  1380224k free,   555276k  
> cached
>
>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
>  2378 nse       20   0 24480  16m 5652 S  3.2  1.7   3:16.28 Xvnc4
> 17406 nse       20   0  3300 1424 1108 R  1.9  0.1   0:01.54 top
>  2382 nse       20   0 13476 5272 2936 S  0.6  0.5   0:07.04 xterm
>  2387 nse       20   0 23248  11m 7992 S  0.6  1.1   4:56.72 lxpanel
>  3434 root      20   0 23356 6796 4656 S  0.6  0.7   1:10.40 Xorg
>  3484 gdm       20   0 31684  17m 9.9m S  0.6  1.7   2:41.80  
> gdmgreeter
>

this is pretty standard.....

"ps -AH" for any of those.. brings just about the entire proces-stack  
back.....

Den 07/09/2009 kl. 14.15 skrev Shawn H Corey:

> Niels S. Eliasen wrote:
>
>> No .. it is not hot...... warm.. yes!.. but more like "warm as in  
>> working..." ... but hot no!
>>>
>>> If so, then the question is what is the machine doing that its CPU  
>>> is running all the time?
>> hmmm.... "something" is obviously running that causes this... but  
>> what exactly... and I tried .. just for the heck of it...
>> to reboot the Tibook.. and see if that would shutdown the fan...  
>> but no!... the fan was/is on all the time..... during reboot even!
>>>
>>> If not, then what process turned on the fan and forgot to turn it  
>>> off?
>> exactly! but how to tell ?
>
> Actually, I was asking those questions hoping to narrow down what  
> was happening.
>
> To find out which process is using the most CPU time, run `top`.  
> (To quit, press 'q'.)  Once you get its process id (pid), run `ps -
> AH` to see if its dependent on anything.
>
> On the other hand, if it's running because it was forgotten, I would  
> look at the power management processes.
>
>
> --
> Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
>  Shawn
>
> Programming is as much about organization and communication
> as it is about coding.
>
> I like Perl; it's the only language where you can bless your
> thingy.

kind regards

nse

"Ach, crivens, what a wee snotter....."

Quote from "The Wee Free Men" by Terry Pratchett


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[Shawn H Corey]

Niels S. Eliasen wrote:

>> top - 14:25:43 up 17:31,  5 users,  load average: 0.17, 0.11, 0.06
>> Tasks: 180 total,   1 running, 179 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
>> Cpu(s):  3.9%us,  1.3%sy,  0.0%ni, 94.5%id,  0.0%wa,  0.3%hi,  
>> 0.0%si,  0.0%st
>> Mem:   1033084k total,   986920k used,    46164k free,    14912k buffers
>> Swap:  1380344k total,      120k used,  1380224k free,   555276k cached
>>
>>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
>>  2378 nse       20   0 24480  16m 5652 S  3.2  1.7   3:16.28 Xvnc4
>> 17406 nse       20   0  3300 1424 1108 R  1.9  0.1   0:01.54 top
>>  2382 nse       20   0 13476 5272 2936 S  0.6  0.5   0:07.04 xterm
>>  2387 nse       20   0 23248  11m 7992 S  0.6  1.1   4:56.72 lxpanel
>>  3434 root      20   0 23356 6796 4656 S  0.6  0.7   1:10.40 Xorg
>>  3484 gdm       20   0 31684  17m 9.9m S  0.6  1.7   2:41.80 gdmgreeter
>>
> this is pretty standard.....

So, it does look like a power management problem.  Unfortunately I don't
know much about it.  Perhaps someone else can help.


--
Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
   Shawn

Programming is as much about organization and communication
as it is about coding.

I like Perl; it's the only language where you can bless your
thingy.


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[Rogério Brito]

Hi.

Not having a TiBook with a fan, I can't really help here.

OTOH, I have a small comment.

On Sep 07 2009, Shawn H Corey wrote:
> Actually, I was asking those questions hoping to narrow down what
> was happening.
>
> To find out which process is using the most CPU time, run `top`.
> (To quit, press 'q'.)  Once you get its process id (pid), run `ps
> -AH` to see if its dependent on anything.

You can find things a little bit more conveniently running a
"beautified" version of top, which does both things pointed above in a
very user friendly way.

apt-get install htop

You can see threads of processes, set CPU affinity (OK, not that useful
for single processor, single core systems, but quite useful otherwise),
kill processes *way* easier than "regular" top (without memorizing
pid's),

And the best feature of all: it is *SMALL*. (I hate bloated programs
with a passion).

Also, for the problem at hand, a good thing to do would be to use
powertop. Perhaps some other benchmarking tools would be useful to
isolate the problem.

(I'm not sure if the tibook in question needs the fan thermal monitoring
module for powerbooks).


Regards, Rogério.

--
Rogério Brito : rbrito@{mackenzie,ime.usp}.br : GPG key 1024D/7C2CAEB8
http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito : http://meusite.mackenzie.com.br/rbrito
Projects: algorithms.berlios.de : lame.sf.net : vrms.alioth.debian.org


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[nse]

powertop is definitely interesting.....


Could this be the culprit....???

> Sep  7 18:34:20 munin NetworkManager: <WARN>  
> request_and_convert_scan_results(): card took too much time  
> scanning.  Get a better one.
>
and that
Den 07/09/2009 kl. 18.23 skrev Rogério Brito:

> Hi.
>
> Not having a TiBook with a fan, I can't really help here.
>
> OTOH, I have a small comment.
>
> On Sep 07 2009, Shawn H Corey wrote:
>> Actually, I was asking those questions hoping to narrow down what
>> was happening.
>>
>> To find out which process is using the most CPU time, run `top`.
>> (To quit, press 'q'.)  Once you get its process id (pid), run `ps
>> -AH` to see if its dependent on anything.
>
> You can find things a little bit more conveniently running a
> "beautified" version of top, which does both things pointed above in a
> very user friendly way.
>
> apt-get install htop
>
> You can see threads of processes, set CPU affinity (OK, not that  
> useful
> for single processor, single core systems, but quite useful  
> otherwise),
> kill processes *way* easier than "regular" top (without memorizing
> pid's),
>
> And the best feature of all: it is *SMALL*. (I hate bloated programs
> with a passion).
>
> Also, for the problem at hand, a good thing to do would be to use
> powertop. Perhaps some other benchmarking tools would be useful to
> isolate the problem.
>
> (I'm not sure if the tibook in question needs the fan thermal  
> monitoring
> module for powerbooks).

tried to install the "libsensors4" package ... but that could not find  
any kind of sensors.... ;-(
Anyhow... here is the result from "powertop":

> < Detailed C-state information is not P-states (frequencies)
>                                          400 Mhz   100,0%
>                                          300 Mhz     0,0%
>
>
>
>
> Wakeups-from-idle per second : 179,3    interval: 10,0s
>
>
> Top causes for wakeups:
>   37,1% ( 53,6)       <interrupt> : 1    Level     VIA-PMU
>   23,1% ( 33,4)       <interrupt> : 1    Level     eth0
>    8,0% ( 11,6)             Xvnc4 : do_setitimer (it_real_fn)
>    6,2% (  9,0)       <interrupt> : 1    Level     ide1
>

>
>
> Regards, Rogério.
>
> --
> Rogério Brito : rbrito@{mackenzie,ime.usp}.br : GPG key 1024D/7C2CAEB8
> http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito : http://meusite.mackenzie.com.br/rbrito
> Projects: algorithms.berlios.de : lame.sf.net : vrms.alioth.debian.org
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-powerpc-REQUEST@...
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
>

kind regards

nse

"Ach, crivens, what a wee snotter....."

Quote from "The Wee Free Men" by Terry Pratchett


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[Brad Boyer]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 06:39:44PM +0200, Niels S. Eliasen wrote:
> >(I'm not sure if the tibook in question needs the fan thermal  
> >monitoring
> >module for powerbooks).
> tried to install the "libsensors4" package ... but that could not find  
> any kind of sensors.... ;-(

I don't think libsensors works for Macs. You might want to send the
output of lsmod to the list. I was thinking that there was a driver
for the fan control on that model, although I just looked at the
descriptions for the drivers and I didn't see one that sounded right.
Maybe someone else on the list remembers better than I do.

        Brad Boyer
        flar@...


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[Rogério Brito]

Hi, Niels.

Please, reply to the list only. I am subscribed.

On Sep 07 2009, Niels S. Eliasen wrote:
> powertop is definitely interesting.....

Invoking it as "powertop -d" gives a summary of things that you may want
to perform.

> Could this be the culprit....???
>
> >Sep  7 18:34:20 munin NetworkManager: <WARN>
> >request_and_convert_scan_results(): card took too much time
> >scanning.  Get a better one.
> >
> and that

Just kill network manager (and, potentially, nm-applet, wpa_supplicant
etc), if you don't need your card right now.

> >(I'm not sure if the tibook in question needs the fan thermal
> >monitoring module for powerbooks).
>
> tried to install the "libsensors4" package ... but that could not
> find any kind of sensors.... ;-(

I'm not sure if that's the "right" package. Perhaps sensors and sensorsd
would be a good thing, PROVIDED that any module can access the sensors,
that is.

You might want to look at the therm_adt746x and friends (I think that
this module is only for newer *books).

> >Top causes for wakeups:
> >  37,1% ( 53,6)       <interrupt> : 1    Level     VIA-PMU
> >  23,1% ( 33,4)       <interrupt> : 1    Level     eth0
> >   8,0% ( 11,6)             Xvnc4 : do_setitimer (it_real_fn)
> >   6,2% (  9,0)       <interrupt> : 1    Level     ide1

Do you need vnc right now? If not, kill it. All these things, if not
needed, will not only make your notebook consume less energy, but it
will also make your notebook slightly faster.

Getting even the latest cpu cycle is one of my goals with the lower-end
powerpc.

(Right now, I have some non-mainstream powerpc hardware where I'm
running Linux, some running at 200MHz, others running at 266MHz, but
with CPUs that don't feature extra instructions like Altivec).


Regards, Rogério.

--
Rogério Brito : rbrito@{mackenzie,ime.usp}.br : GPG key 1024D/7C2CAEB8
http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito : http://meusite.mackenzie.com.br/rbrito
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[Rogério Brito]

Hi, Brad.

On Sep 07 2009, Brad Boyer wrote:
> I was thinking that there was a driver for the fan control on that
> model, although I just looked at the descriptions for the drivers and
> I didn't see one that sounded right.

Exactly what I did: just looked at the few lines of drivers/macintosh/*
and nothing was really useful.

I'm not exactly sure where the documentation could be found (perhaps the
Darwin sources *are* the "documentation"). :-(

And I have 0 experience with writing drivers. :-/


Regards, Rogério Brito.

--
Rogério Brito : rbrito@{mackenzie,ime.usp}.br : GPG key 1024D/7C2CAEB8
http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito : http://meusite.mackenzie.com.br/rbrito
Projects: algorithms.berlios.de : lame.sf.net : vrms.alioth.debian.org


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