Fedora Moblin remix

[Peter Robinson]

Hi All,

For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
[1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
doubt that is the case.

Enjoy!

Peter

[1] http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta2-LiveCD.iso

As a side note the old one has been renamed to the following to make
it easier to identify.

http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta1-LiveCD.iso

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Adam Miller-5]

I am unfortunately netbook-less for the time being (had to sell mine
because I needed the money) but I did do a quick test in virtualbox
and it seems to do some strange things to the menus. I took a
screenshot and posted it on some webspace for easy viewing.

http://www.shsu.edu/~ajm023/moblinremix_menus.png

-Adam

--
http://maxamillion.googlepages.com
---------------------------------------------------------
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Peter Robinson]

Hi Adam,

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Adam Miller <maxamillion@...> wrote:
> I am unfortunately netbook-less for the time being (had to sell mine
> because I needed the money) but I did do a quick test in virtualbox
> and it seems to do some strange things to the menus. I took a
> screenshot and posted it on some webspace for easy viewing.
>
> http://www.shsu.edu/~ajm023/moblinremix_menus.png

Out of interest was the res running at 800x600 or there abouts? Are
you able to try it at 1024x something? Moblin 2.0 (we're at something
more than 2.0 but not quite 2.1 due to some unmerged changes moblin
has to mutter that aren't yet upstream) doesn't really support < 1024
at the moment but I'm not sure what happens if run at that.

Regards,
Peter

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Gianluca Sforna]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:13 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@...> wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Adam Miller <maxamillion@...> wrote:
>> I am unfortunately netbook-less for the time being (had to sell mine
>> because I needed the money) but I did do a quick test in virtualbox
>> and it seems to do some strange things to the menus. I took a
>> screenshot and posted it on some webspace for easy viewing.
>>
>> http://www.shsu.edu/~ajm023/moblinremix_menus.png
>
> Out of interest was the res running at 800x600 or there abouts? Are
> you able to try it at 1024x something? Moblin 2.0 (we're at something
> more than 2.0 but not quite 2.1 due to some unmerged changes moblin
> has to mutter that aren't yet upstream) doesn't really support < 1024
> at the moment but I'm not sure what happens if run at that.

I booted the Beta2 in a F12 host, but this is the result:
http://imgur.com/CzKkB.png
screen is 1024x768

I'll see if I can manage to test it on some real hardware


--
Gianluca Sforna

http://morefedora.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Peter Robinson]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Gianluca Sforna <giallu@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:13 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@...> wrote:
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Adam Miller <maxamillion@...> wrote:
>>> I am unfortunately netbook-less for the time being (had to sell mine
>>> because I needed the money) but I did do a quick test in virtualbox
>>> and it seems to do some strange things to the menus. I took a
>>> screenshot and posted it on some webspace for easy viewing.
>>>
>>> http://www.shsu.edu/~ajm023/moblinremix_menus.png
>>
>> Out of interest was the res running at 800x600 or there abouts? Are
>> you able to try it at 1024x something? Moblin 2.0 (we're at something
>> more than 2.0 but not quite 2.1 due to some unmerged changes moblin
>> has to mutter that aren't yet upstream) doesn't really support < 1024
>> at the moment but I'm not sure what happens if run at that.
>
> I booted the Beta2 in a F12 host, but this is the result:
> http://imgur.com/CzKkB.png
> screen is 1024x768
>
> I'll see if I can manage to test it on some real hardware

What sort of host env? I think the only VM environment that currently
does any form of the HW accel that clutter needs is VirtualBox.

Cheers,
Peter

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Gianluca Sforna]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@...> wrote:
>
> What sort of host env? I think the only VM environment that currently
> does any form of the HW accel that clutter needs is VirtualBox.

Ah sorry, I must be stupid becasue I knew it was an OpenGL based interface...

Then ignore me (it was regular KVM), I'll try to test some real HW.

thanks!


--
Gianluca Sforna

http://morefedora.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Guido Grazioli]

2009/11/5 Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@...>:
> Hi All,
>
> For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
> [1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
> have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
> 1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
> what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
> doubt that is the case.
>

* I booted it for the first time some minutes ago on an Asus eeepc 900
(no atom, just a celeron). I actually never installed "vanilla" moblin
because in their site atom is a requirement.

* Boot is somewhat slow but it could depend on my crappy usb key, or
because netbooks are crap themselves; after
gdm login, the graphics go unexpectedly *FAST* and *SMOOTH* !

* Just before graphical boot screen, for some seconds i can see:
--
render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
page table error
  PGTBL_ER: 0x00000100
[drm:i915_handle_error] *ERROR* EIR stuck: 0x0000010, masking
render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
page table error
  PGTBL_ER: 0x00000100
--
however, everything seems to run just right after that.


* Where's wifi configuration? isn't there a graphical tool
to configure it? asking my gf to get it up on a shell is a no-no.

* I mounted a touchscreen in my eeepc, and moblin gui looks
much more friendly to that interface. However i couldnt install
the manufacturer software (eGalax), because i think
an autoloaded module interferes with it (generic-usb?).
On F11 nothing get autoloaded and touchscreen works fine.
I need some more testing to figure this out.


Kudos to you: that's a *very* promising work!
guido


--
Guido Grazioli <guido.grazioli@...>
Via Parri 11 48011 - Alfonsine (RA)
Mobile: [phone] (10-18)
Key FP = 7040 F398 0DED A737 7337  DAE1 12DC A698 5E81 2278
Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/in/guidograzioli

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Peter Robinson]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:56 PM, Guido Grazioli
<guido.grazioli@...> wrote:

> 2009/11/5 Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@...>:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
>> [1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
>> have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
>> 1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
>> what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
>> doubt that is the case.
>>
>
> * I booted it for the first time some minutes ago on an Asus eeepc 900
> (no atom, just a celeron). I actually never installed "vanilla" moblin
> because in their site atom is a requirement.
>
> * Boot is somewhat slow but it could depend on my crappy usb key, or
> because netbooks are crap themselves; after
> gdm login, the graphics go unexpectedly *FAST* and *SMOOTH* !

Cool, I need to look closer at the boot to see what can improved. I'm
been too busy for my own good of late so haven't had a chance to look
closely at this bit.

> * Just before graphical boot screen, for some seconds i can see:
> --
> render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
> page table error
>  PGTBL_ER: 0x00000100
> [drm:i915_handle_error] *ERROR* EIR stuck: 0x0000010, masking
> render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
> page table error
>  PGTBL_ER: 0x00000100
> --
> however, everything seems to run just right after that.

Is it recorded in dmesg. It might be worth reporting a bug with all
the details.

> * Where's wifi configuration? isn't there a graphical tool
> to configure it? asking my gf to get it up on a shell is a no-no.

It should be in the top right corner of the top panel. Just to the
left of the volume control. From memory the eeePC 900 has an atheros
card so it should work OK.

> * I mounted a touchscreen in my eeepc, and moblin gui looks
> much more friendly to that interface. However i couldnt install
> the manufacturer software (eGalax), because i think
> an autoloaded module interferes with it (generic-usb?).
> On F11 nothing get autoloaded and touchscreen works fine.
> I need some more testing to figure this out.

Do they have an open driver? Maybe its supported in F-12 and I just
need to make sure the right package is included to support it.

Thanks for the report.

Cheers,
Peter

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Guido Grazioli]

2009/11/6 Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@...>:

>> * Just before graphical boot screen, for some seconds i can see:
>> --
>> render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
>> page table error
>>  PGTBL_ER: 0x00000100
>> [drm:i915_handle_error] *ERROR* EIR stuck: 0x0000010, masking
>> render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
>> page table error
>>  PGTBL_ER: 0x00000100
>> --
>> however, everything seems to run just right after that.
>
> Is it recorded in dmesg. It might be worth reporting a bug with all
> the details.
>

Yep i can see it in dmesg; which component should i report the bug against?

>> * Where's wifi configuration? isn't there a graphical tool
>> to configure it? asking my gf to get it up on a shell is a no-no.
>
> It should be in the top right corner of the top panel. Just to the
> left of the volume control. From memory the eeePC 900 has an atheros
> card so it should work OK.
>

I can see NetworkManager running with top, but i have no icon in the toolbar;
wifi devices are present and atheros module loaded correctly.

>> * I mounted a touchscreen in my eeepc, and moblin gui looks
>> much more friendly to that interface. However i couldnt install
>> the manufacturer software (eGalax), because i think
>> an autoloaded module interferes with it (generic-usb?).
>> On F11 nothing get autoloaded and touchscreen works fine.
>> I need some more testing to figure this out.
>
> Do they have an open driver? Maybe its supported in F-12 and I just
> need to make sure the right package is included to support it.
>

The driver is here:
http://210.64.17.162/web20/eGalaxTouchDriver/linuxDriver.htm

A kernel module is actually needed only if
the touchscreen uses serial connection; installation of their
driver for usb only modifies xorg.conf and launches a
calibration utility. Will try again in the weekend, as i can have made
something wrong, and will report back to you.

Just forgot to report yesterday: if i open cheese and take a
picture from the webcam (default setting are ok), the
image goes to the first "rolling" screen. If i click on the picture
a program is opened (media viewer?) but after half a second
it closes with no error. Then the background image is
replaced with a grey background.



--
Guido Grazioli <guido.grazioli@...>
Via Parri 11 48011 - Alfonsine (RA)
Mobile: [phone] (10-18)
Key FP = 7040 F398 0DED A737 7337  DAE1 12DC A698 5E81 2278
Linked in: http://www.linkedin.com/in/guidograzioli

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Richard Ryniker]

>> render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010
>> page table error
>>  PGTBL_ER: 0x00000100
>> [drm:i915_handle_error] *ERROR* EIR stuck: 0x0000010, masking

This comes from drivers/gpu/drm in the kernel.

Created:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=533450

There is no evidence yet that this has any worse effect than to increase
anxiety in readers of syslog.

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Tim Lauridsen-4]

On 11/05/2009 07:01 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
> [1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
> have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
> 1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
> what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
> doubt that is the case.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Peter
>
> [1] http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta2-LiveCD.iso
>
> As a side note the old one has been renamed to the following to make
> it easier to identify.
>
> http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta1-LiveCD.iso
>
>    

I downloaded at the livecd and booted it on my T60
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_1b38e7a8-4ef5-478b-89d5-97f0ebf135be

The interface was work and looked very nice, but it looked like the
network applet was crached, so i couldn't
connect to my wireless network :(
abrt had a crash report on network-manager-netbook, but i could not
submit it because i had not network connection.

Thanks for the nice work !

Tim

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Tim Lauridsen-4]

On 11/07/2009 11:13 AM, Tim Lauridsen wrote:

> On 11/05/2009 07:01 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
>> [1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
>> have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
>> 1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
>> what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
>> doubt that is the case.
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> [1] http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta2-LiveCD.iso
>>
>> As a side note the old one has been renamed to the following to make
>> it easier to identify.
>>
>> http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta1-LiveCD.iso
>>
> I downloaded at the livecd and booted it on my T60
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_1b38e7a8-4ef5-478b-89d5-97f0ebf135be
>
> The interface was work and looked very nice, but it looked like the
> network applet was crached, so i couldn't
> connect to my wireless network :(
> abrt had a crash report on network-manager-netbook, but i could not
> submit it because i had not network connection.
>
> Thanks for the nice work !
>
> Tim
>

Tested with Beta3, same issue no network applet and no way to get a wpa2 connection :(

Tim

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Peter Robinson]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Tim Lauridsen
<tim.lauridsen@...> wrote:

> On 11/07/2009 11:13 AM, Tim Lauridsen wrote:
>>
>> On 11/05/2009 07:01 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
>>> [1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
>>> have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
>>> 1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
>>> what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
>>> doubt that is the case.
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> [1] http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta2-LiveCD.iso
>>>
>>> As a side note the old one has been renamed to the following to make
>>> it easier to identify.
>>>
>>> http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta1-LiveCD.iso
>>>
>> I downloaded at the livecd and booted it on my T60
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_1b38e7a8-4ef5-478b-89d5-97f0ebf135be
>>
>> The interface was work and looked very nice, but it looked like the
>> network applet was crached, so i couldn't
>> connect to my wireless network :(
>> abrt had a crash report on network-manager-netbook, but i could not
>> submit it because i had not network connection.
>>
>> Thanks for the nice work !
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> Tested with Beta3, same issue no network applet and no way to get a wpa2
> connection :(

There's a crash in n-m-n that I'm looking into. It seems to be when
there's no exiting connections as it works fine on my dual
gnome/mobilin instance which already had APs.

Cheers,
Peter

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Peter Robinson]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Bastien Nocera <bnocera@...> wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 18:01 +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
>> [1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
>> have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
>> 1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
>> what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
>> doubt that is the case.
>
> I couldn't boot it using EFI on a Macbook Air, from a USB key because of
> a bootx64.efi error.
>
> Which version of syslinux did you use to generate the ISO?

The current one in F-12/rawhide. I've only become aware of the EFI
support (via Luke's blog post about the new livecd-creator tool) so
its on my list to investigate shortly. Is there anything special that
needs to be done or should it just work? If there is something that
needs to be done can someone point me to what that is.

> The same hardware, generating the same USB key worked (kinda[1]) with
> the F12 beta live image.

Unfortunately the only EFI based device I have to test this with is a
O2 joggler and I have no idea what version of EFI it has, just that
its a 32 bit Atom based system that I want took look at closer for
hacking when I get some spare cycles.

> Cheers
>
> [1]: Got this error on boot (this a first gen MBA, with Intel gfx), will
> test with the F12 RC when it's available:
> [drm:drm_mode_rmfb] *ERROR* tried to remove a fb that we didn't own

Cheers,
Peter

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Peter Robinson]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Bastien Nocera <bnocera@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 13:41 +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Bastien Nocera <bnocera@...> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 18:01 +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> >> Hi All,
>> >>
>> >> For those interested there's a new test LiveCD of Fedora Moblin remix
>> >> [1] for those that are interesting in playing. It would be nice to
>> >> have some feedback on good or bad issues with it. There's been almost
>> >> 1300 downloads since I announced the last one but I've had no feedback
>> >> what so ever and while I'd like to assume that's because its perfect I
>> >> doubt that is the case.
>> >
>> > I couldn't boot it using EFI on a Macbook Air, from a USB key because of
>> > a bootx64.efi error.
>> >
>> > Which version of syslinux did you use to generate the ISO?
>>
>> The current one in F-12/rawhide. I've only become aware of the EFI
>> support (via Luke's blog post about the new livecd-creator tool) so
>> its on my list to investigate shortly. Is there anything special that
>> needs to be done or should it just work? If there is something that
>> needs to be done can someone point me to what that is.
>>
>> > The same hardware, generating the same USB key worked (kinda[1]) with
>> > the F12 beta live image.
>>
>> Unfortunately the only EFI based device I have to test this with is a
>> O2 joggler and I have no idea what version of EFI it has, just that
>> its a 32 bit Atom based system that I want took look at closer for
>> hacking when I get some spare cycles.
>
> My just be a dupe of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=533824
> I'll recreate a boot disk when I get a chance.

I found these two efi ones over the weekend as well:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=528232
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=526825

Cheers,
Peter

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Adam Williamson-3]

On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 13:36 +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:

> There's a crash in n-m-n that I'm looking into. It seems to be when
> there's no exiting connections as it works fine on my dual
> gnome/mobilin instance which already had APs.

I recall a similar bug in NetworkManager-gnome getting fixed during the
F12 cycle (around beta time IIRC) - maybe look at that fix?

--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Adam Williamson-3]

On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 12:27 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:

> The same hardware, generating the same USB key worked (kinda[1]) with
> the F12 beta live image.
>
> Cheers
>
> [1]: Got this error on boot (this a first gen MBA, with Intel gfx), will
> test with the F12 RC when it's available:
> [drm:drm_mode_rmfb] *ERROR* tried to remove a fb that we didn't own

That's a very common error message and, AFAICT anyway, doesn't really
indicate that anything is particularly broken. At least I see it all the
time on systems that otherwise appear to work fine. So if you're having
problems I _doubt_ they trace to that message. Check with a qualified X
hacker though =)

--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

[Adam Williamson-3]

On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 19:11 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:

> > That's a very common error message and, AFAICT anyway, doesn't really
> > indicate that anything is particularly broken. At least I see it all the
> > time on systems that otherwise appear to work fine. So if you're having
> > problems I _doubt_ they trace to that message. Check with a qualified X
> > hacker though =)
>
> I guess, for myself, and a number of other bug reporters, that's the
> sort of error you would _see_ when an error message from the console
> gets printed using KMS.

Yeah, it's one you tend to notice when you get dumped to a console for
some other reason, but was actually there all the time and you just
weren't seeing it when whatever actually turns out to be broken was
working...

> Only problem is that it's not the error message we actually wanted to
> see. In my case, it was the initrd being unable to find its new root
> device. Which I later fixed in:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=533824

Yeah, I have a similar case where occasionally my system just fails to
boot; I see the drm error, but it's actually grub or my BIOS falling
over. I've verified the same error exists on a successful boot, I just
don't see it because the bootsplash hides it.

--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

--
fedora-test-list mailing list
fedora-test-list@...
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list