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 Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
OpenID RP login UX Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/
Design considerationsThe DNOA login UX design document contains the design spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML, CSS, and JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby, python, php, coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET RP web sites can benefit from a better UI for logging users in.
Interesting scenarios to experiment with and/or test- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page redirect login UI.
-
Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page. This invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we highlight the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not splinter his identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts with more than one displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate, and on a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right corner of an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green checkmark is not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used to guide the user through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as Verisign and Yahoo) do not support checkid_immediate, and will never display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as soon as you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and a login button appears within the text box. Next time you visit, the UX will remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates to multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you go through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back positive) is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to log in with, and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that are down or misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special release notesIn this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog approach to displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window. This is still alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this decision is most welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google, Yahoo, Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications given in the design document, but they are included here to assist in the feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons (Google, Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a green checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to complete login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve yet. But the way to proceed with login is to click the original, large OpenID button again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and Safari 4. If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback about how your experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older browsers, so any bug reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to leave feedbackJust reply to this message. --
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I
would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism
constructively and improve the user experience.
FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously
these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical
perspective doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective.
There was also no indication as to what the plugins were for and when
I attempted to install them it failed. That latter criticism may be an
issue with FireFox or OSX.
Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A
standard user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking
an advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism
towards the entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get
into) but even with the popup approach there is room for improvement
here. If you know the OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they
do not offer a simple UI for popups, at least size the window to avoid
horizontal scrollbars.
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.pnghttp://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.pnghttp://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.pngYou'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its
security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to
test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to
change my choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to
redirect. Clicking login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled
and I can't hit the back button. Between the popups and the redirects,
a standard user might (and should) think they have a virus.
It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID
since it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more
information would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!).
Ok, maybe that last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort.
I really need to put together a demo. I really hope you found my
feedback useful.
=Rabbit
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Thanks, Rabbit.
Responses inline. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote:
I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism constructively and improve the user experience.
Sure, I don't want you to sugar coat it. Although your tone throughout this email suggests that you thought I thought this was all finished and polished. It's a "prototype", dude.
FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical perspective doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective. There was also no indication as to what the plugins were for and when I attempted to install them it failed. That latter criticism may be an issue with FireFox or OSX.
I totally agree. This doesn't happen on Windows, so I didn't see these problems. But another mac user reported seeing the same thing. I have an idea of how to fix this so please try again in a couple days and tell me if the problem hasn't gone away. Yes, it's InfoCard related, but it was not my intention to throw up all kinds of unpleasantness for those who don't have InfoCard support. It's supposed to be a very quiet "light-up" scenario if you have it, and completely and quietly missing if you don't.
Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A standard user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking an advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism towards the entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get into) but even with the popup approach there is room for improvement here. If you know the OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they do not offer a simple UI for popups, at least size the window to avoid horizontal scrollbars.
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.png
Working within the popup UI is still being developed for the OPs, and each of them are responsible for making it look good. Google supports it fully, as I'm sure you noticed. Yahoo claims to support it but don't get the window size right according to the UI extension draft spec and I hope they fix that or the spec (I don't care which). myopenid and verisign don't support it at all, and the larger popup window size I give non-supporters isn't apparently big enough for their large window demands. I'll see if I can fix that by just giving them a bigger window. Ideally, I hope this encourages these OPs to shrink their UI so it fits in smaller windows.
Besides that, myopenid and Verisign aren't likely to be displayed in the final UI kit that I'm building until they meet the guidelines I wrote up. RPs can always add them though.
You'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
I agree. But see above.
The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to change my choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to redirect. Clicking login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled and I can't hit the back button. Between the popups and the redirects, a standard user might (and should) think they have a virus.
Now here you've lost me. Can you explain more precisely what's going on? Maybe it's a Mac thing (which I would of course still want to fix), but why do you say it's impossible to change your choice once you've made one? If you click one Provider and log in, you absolutely can pick another provider the next time you log in (although we make them appear grayer than the rest to discourage this). But remember this is targeted at normal users -- it's not targeted for testing multiple OPs. So a normal user would want to keep clicking the same button in order to avoid splintering their identity. That's a common complaint about OpenID: "Which button did I click on last time?" Or more practically: "I logged in [with the wrong button] and now all my stuff is gone!" Although the other buttons are gray, you can still click them.
Now what about this "page load tries to redirect". What does that mean? I've seen sites where the Back button takes you to a page that redirects you "forward" again, which is very aggravating. But on my browsers, this doesn't happen. The back button works as expected. Can you elaborate about what's broken?
It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID since it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more information would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!). Ok, maybe that last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort. I really need to put together a demo. I really hope you found my feedback useful.
Here I disagree with you, but your opinion is appreciated nonetheless. This is not a "promote OpenID" design. Some of the loudest feedback I hear from users who fail to log into RPs is that they don't know what OpenID is and they leave. This UI is designed for maximum user conversions to the RP's services, not to OpenID. RPs want users to log in -- they don't care whether users know what OpenID is, and users don't visit random RPs to learn about what OpenID is.
A design requirement is to keep the UI as simple as possible, while providing flexibility where needed for power users. So links to learn about OpenID will be limited to what the RP's attorneys insist on saying for liability reasons.
Yes, your feedback was helpful -- and can be more so if you can provide some more detail about the issues I asked for more detail about.
=Rabbit
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Andrew Arnott wrote:
I've got the same UX problems as Rabbit with Firefox (on Linux, FWIW).
Additionally, NoScript tells me you're relying on JS from google.com,
googleapis.com, and yahooapis.com (and this is before I've attempted to
resolve the missing plugins problem**). That simply wouldn't fly on the
sites I help run... we don't embed 3rd party scripts on our pages for
security, privacy, and reliability reasons.
BTW, last month our main site (I work for a mid-sized US city) added
our first foray into OpenID for public (vs. extranet) features -- a web
commenting feature that supports local logins or OpenID (special
buttons for Yahoo and Google, standard box for other claimed IDs).
Among the first public users are some who chose to use the Google or
Yahoo buttons rather than create accounts that only work on our site. I
owe you, Andrew, special thanks for that, as we're using DotNetOpenID
to make that possible.
-Peter
** The missing plugins problem is significant on Linux: clicking
"Install Missing Plugins" and then "Next" yields the message "No
suitable plugins were found".
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Thanks, Peter. More responses inline... -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Peter Watkins <peterw@...> wrote:
I've got the same UX problems as Rabbit with Firefox (on Linux, FWIW).
Additionally, NoScript tells me you're relying on JS from google.com,
googleapis.com, and yahooapis.com (and this is before I've attempted to
resolve the missing plugins problem**). That simply wouldn't fly on the
sites I help run... we don't embed 3rd party scripts on our pages for
security, privacy, and reliability reasons.
Hey, no sweat on that one. That's an easily-changed detail. In fact when I run it locally it automatically switches to a locally hosted version of those .js files. The only requirement is jQuery, which the prototype gets from Google because it's faster to do so (browsers likely already have it cached and Google has distributed servers). But jQuery can be hosted on your own server no problem. We pull from Yahoo for its YUI library, which is an optional component that allows the Login split-button to work for delegating identifiers. That too can be hosted yourself, or abandoned altogether at the cost of the split button being just a simple most-preferred-OP button.
BTW, last month our main site (I work for a mid-sized US city) added
our first foray into OpenID for public (vs. extranet) features -- a web
commenting feature that supports local logins or OpenID (special
buttons for Yahoo and Google, standard box for other claimed IDs).
Among the first public users are some who chose to use the Google or
Yahoo buttons rather than create accounts that only work on our site. I
owe you, Andrew, special thanks for that, as we're using DotNetOpenID
to make that possible.
Very cool. And you're welcome. :)
-Peter
** The missing plugins problem is significant on Linux: clicking
"Install Missing Plugins" and then "Next" yields the message "No
suitable plugins were found".
So the good news is that it turns out FireFox does show the Install Missing Plugins button for me on Windows too. But it takes a while to show up, which is why I never noticed it. I'll get that fixed.
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Inline comments.
Peace.
=Rabbit On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote: Thanks, Rabbit.
Responses inline. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote: I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism constructively and improve the user experience.
Sure, I don't want you to sugar coat it. Although your tone throughout this email suggests that you thought I thought this was all finished and polished. It's a "prototype", dude.
I know it's a prototype. Apologies for my tone.
FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical perspective doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective. There was also no indication as to what the plugins were for and when I attempted to install them it failed. That latter criticism may be an issue with FireFox or OSX.
I totally agree. This doesn't happen on Windows, so I didn't see these problems. But another mac user reported seeing the same thing. I have an idea of how to fix this so please try again in a couple days and tell me if the problem hasn't gone away. Yes, it's InfoCard related, but it was not my intention to throw up all kinds of unpleasantness for those who don't have InfoCard support. It's supposed to be a very quiet "light-up" scenario if you have it, and completely and quietly missing if you don't.
Realistically, it's not a big deal. In FireFox it appears as a slide down bar the same that happens when asked to remember a password. I don't know enough about integrating with InfoCard, the reason I pointed it out is that there may be some Mozilla-oriented headers that will point its plugin searcher in the right direction.
Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A standard user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking an advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism towards the entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get into) but even with the popup approach there is room for improvement here. If you know the OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they do not offer a simple UI for popups, at least size the window to avoid horizontal scrollbars.
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.png
Working within the popup UI is still being developed for the OPs, and each of them are responsible for making it look good. Google supports it fully, as I'm sure you noticed. Yahoo claims to support it but don't get the window size right according to the UI extension draft spec and I hope they fix that or the spec (I don't care which). myopenid and verisign don't support it at all, and the larger popup window size I give non-supporters isn't apparently big enough for their large window demands. I'll see if I can fix that by just giving them a bigger window. Ideally, I hope this encourages these OPs to shrink their UI so it fits in smaller windows.
imho, I would prefer a new tab being opened if there is no known window dimensions. Unfortunately, that creates an even more inconsistent user experience.
Besides that, myopenid and Verisign aren't likely to be displayed in the final UI kit that I'm building until they meet the guidelines I wrote up. RPs can always add them though.
You'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
I agree. But see above.
The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to change my choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to redirect. Clicking login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled and I can't hit the back button. Between the popups and the redirects, a standard user might (and should) think they have a virus.
Now here you've lost me. Can you explain more precisely what's going on? Maybe it's a Mac thing (which I would of course still want to fix), but why do you say it's impossible to change your choice once you've made one? If you click one Provider and log in, you absolutely can pick another provider the next time you log in (although we make them appear grayer than the rest to discourage this). But remember this is targeted at normal users -- it's not targeted for testing multiple OPs. So a normal user would want to keep clicking the same button in order to avoid splintering their identity. That's a common complaint about OpenID: "Which button did I click on last time?" Or more practically: "I logged in [with the wrong button] and now all my stuff is gone!" Although the other buttons are gray, you can still click them.
I thought that was an intentional feature. I made a provider choice, clicked through to the provider, did not login (maybe that makes the difference?), went back to the original page and each time it would load for a second then instantly redirect me back to the OP I chose. I had to load your page, hit stop quickly, click Login, hit stop quickly, then choose another provider. (You can understand my frustration! hah)
I wouldn't mind the auto-redirects if there were a visual countdown such as: "You previously chose X as your provider. Redirecting in 3....2....1..." with a cancel button to make another choice.
I don't really see how this could be an OS-specific issue. If you have trouble duplicating this, contact me directly, I'll try to help pinpoint it.
Now what about this "page load tries to redirect". What does that mean? I've seen sites where the Back button takes you to a page that redirects you "forward" again, which is very aggravating. But on my browsers, this doesn't happen. The back button works as expected. Can you elaborate about what's broken?
It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID since it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more information would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!). Ok, maybe that last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort. I really need to put together a demo. I really hope you found my feedback useful.
Here I disagree with you, but your opinion is appreciated nonetheless. This is not a "promote OpenID" design. Some of the loudest feedback I hear from users who fail to log into RPs is that they don't know what OpenID is and they leave. This UI is designed for maximum user conversions to the RP's services, not to OpenID. RPs want users to log in -- they don't care whether users know what OpenID is, and users don't visit random RPs to learn about what OpenID is.
I only suggested it as OpenID is an option. It don't think it would hurt since you're already expanding the window with an input field to have a small link saying "What is this?" After all, that could easily be a path of discovery for many people who just haven't heard of OpenID yet but would love if they understood it. A design requirement is to keep the UI as simple as possible, while providing flexibility where needed for power users. So links to learn about OpenID will be limited to what the RP's attorneys insist on saying for liability reasons.
Yes, your feedback was helpful -- and can be more so if you can provide some more detail about the issues I asked for more detail about.
=Rabbit
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Hi Andrew -
The RP UX looks very promissing, and it'll be really slick with just a
little more polish.
Can you make the Yahoo popup a bit wider? Although the UI Draft spec
says that the popup is supposed to be 450px wide, Yahoo's popup is
500px wide. (our users prefer larger fonts)
Also, as per your blog post, Yahoo displays a warning for RPs that
don't implement RP discovery.
http://blog.nerdbank.net/2008/06/why-yahoo-says-your-openid-site.html
Because the OpenID authentication response exceeds 2KB, the Yahoo OP
automatically sends the response via HTTP POST, which results in a
degraded user experience. (browser warnings when switching from HTTPS
to HTTP) and also a "blank white page" for the autosubmitting form. I'm
a very surprised that the response exceeds 2KB on your demo site,
because generally speaking, OpenID responses that don't use AX or OAuth
Hybrid almost never exceed 2KB. I think your demo has an unusually
large return_to URL, which is contributing to the oversized response.
On the Yahoo OP side of things, we're working on ways to shrink the
size of our responses to try to stay under the 2KB limit. For instance,
we'll be removing the PAPE responses unless they were requested, and
we'll try to shrink the size of our association handles.
Also, as others have reported, the browser plugin warning is a bit
distracting. I'm runing WinXP with Firefox. Presumably this should be
fairly easy to fix.
Good job!
Allen
Andrew Arnott wrote:
OpenID RP login UX
Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/
Design
considerations
The DNOA login UX design document contains the design
spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML,
CSS, and JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby,
python, php, coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET RP web sites can benefit from a better UI
for logging users in.
Interesting
scenarios to experiment with and/or test
- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page
redirect login UI.
- Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page.
This invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional
OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple
identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we
highlight the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not
splinter his identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts
with more than one displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate,
and on a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right
corner of an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green
checkmark is not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used
to guide the user through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as
Verisign and Yahoo) do not support checkid_immediate, and will never
display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as
soon as you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and
a login button appears within the text box. Next time you visit,
the UX will remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in
again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates
to multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you
go through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back
positive) is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to
log in with, and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that
are down or misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special
release notes
In this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog
approach to displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window.
This is still alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this
decision is most welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google,
Yahoo, Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications given in
the design document, but they are included here to assist in the
feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons
(Google, Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from
three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a
green checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to
complete login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve
yet. But the way to proceed with login is to click the original, large
OpenID button again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and
Safari 4. If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback
about how your experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older
browsers, so any bug reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to
leave feedback
Just reply to this message.
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
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general@...
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Andrew, some random feedback
1) I used Google the first time. The next time I saw "If you have
logged in previously, click the same button you did last time.
"
But what if I want to use a different OP? I know nothing is stopping me
but the above feels too much like a directive
Perhaps 'You may use the same ...'
Also, although the Google icon had a little green flag on it, there was
no text alerting the user to the significance
2) When I used Yahoo, their page doesnt fit in the pop-up
Yahoo warned me about the bona fides of the RP (yes I know its not
under your control but its disconcerting nonetheless)
3) After successfully getting in with Yahoo, I saw the green check on
both Yahoo & Google icons. But when I logged out and came back the
check had disappeared from Yahoo.
This didnt happen for myOpenID & Verisign, ie their green checks do
light up along with Google's to record past successful use
4) I see the install plugins prompt on FF on Vista. The auto install
didnt work
5) I get a browser warning about 'unencrypted connection' only with
Yahoo - on the redirect from the OP back to RP
6) When I tried to use a blogspot OpenID,
( http://connectid.blogspot.com/) the RP validation script refuses to
recognize it ('No OP Endpoint found'.
Separately, the above error message could be less cryptic
Regards
Paul
Andrew Arnott wrote:
OpenID RP login UX
Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/
Design
considerations
The DNOA login UX design document contains the design
spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML,
CSS, and JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby,
python, php, coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET RP web sites can benefit from a better UI
for logging users in.
Interesting
scenarios to experiment with and/or test
- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page
redirect login UI.
- Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page.
This invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional
OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple
identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we
highlight the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not
splinter his identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts
with more than one displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate,
and on a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right
corner of an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green
checkmark is not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used
to guide the user through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as
Verisign and Yahoo) do not support checkid_immediate, and will never
display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as
soon as you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and
a login button appears within the text box. Next time you visit,
the UX will remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in
again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates
to multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you
go through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back
positive) is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to
log in with, and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that
are down or misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special
release notes
In this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog
approach to displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window.
This is still alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this
decision is most welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google,
Yahoo, Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications given in
the design document, but they are included here to assist in the
feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons
(Google, Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from
three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a
green checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to
complete login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve
yet. But the way to proceed with login is to click the original, large
OpenID button again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and
Safari 4. If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback
about how your experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older
browsers, so any bug reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to
leave feedback
Just reply to this message.
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
|
|
Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Great work. Couple of comments - The green flag appearance/disappearance seems a bit shaky. - Does it make sense to only show the logo of the OP that I chose last time (with the option of switching of course)? Other than the experimentation mode, we don't expect users to keep switching on a frequent basis...do we?
- The mixing of protocol/framework logos (e.g. OpenID, Purple-i) with the OP logos might be a bit confusing. - You will eventually hit the issue of many OPs with limited screen space. Would it make sense to have the text box accept OP names (e.g Google) with Facebook style auto-completion.
Thanks, -Ashish On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Paul Madsen <paulmadsen@...> wrote:
Andrew, some random feedback
1) I used Google the first time. The next time I saw "If you have
logged in previously, click the same button you did last time.
"
But what if I want to use a different OP? I know nothing is stopping me
but the above feels too much like a directive
Perhaps 'You may use the same ...'
Also, although the Google icon had a little green flag on it, there was
no text alerting the user to the significance
2) When I used Yahoo, their page doesnt fit in the pop-up
Yahoo warned me about the bona fides of the RP (yes I know its not
under your control but its disconcerting nonetheless)
3) After successfully getting in with Yahoo, I saw the green check on
both Yahoo & Google icons. But when I logged out and came back the
check had disappeared from Yahoo.
This didnt happen for myOpenID & Verisign, ie their green checks do
light up along with Google's to record past successful use
4) I see the install plugins prompt on FF on Vista. The auto install
didnt work
5) I get a browser warning about 'unencrypted connection' only with
Yahoo - on the redirect from the OP back to RP
6) When I tried to use a blogspot OpenID,
( http://connectid.blogspot.com/) the RP validation script refuses to
recognize it ('No OP Endpoint found'.
Separately, the above error message could be less cryptic
Regards
Paul
Andrew Arnott wrote:
OpenID RP login UX
Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/
Design
considerations
The DNOA login UX design document contains the design
spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML,
CSS, and JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby,
python, php, coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET RP web sites can benefit from a better UI
for logging users in.
Interesting
scenarios to experiment with and/or test
- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page
redirect login UI.
- Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page.
This invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional
OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple
identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we
highlight the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not
splinter his identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts
with more than one displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate,
and on a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right
corner of an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green
checkmark is not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used
to guide the user through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as
Verisign and Yahoo) do not support checkid_immediate, and will never
display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as
soon as you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and
a login button appears within the text box. Next time you visit,
the UX will remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in
again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates
to multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you
go through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back
positive) is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to
log in with, and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that
are down or misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special
release notes
In this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog
approach to displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window.
This is still alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this
decision is most welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google,
Yahoo, Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications given in
the design document, but they are included here to assist in the
feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons
(Google, Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from
three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a
green checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to
complete login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve
yet. But the way to proceed with login is to click the original, large
OpenID button again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and
Safari 4. If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback
about how your experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older
browsers, so any bug reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to
leave feedback
Just reply to this message.
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
|
|
Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Hey Rabbit,
So I fixed the popup window size and the plugin prompt (please verify!). Also, I happened to run into the same Back->auto-redirect behavior you just described. It was in IE8 for me, and I have no idea why it's doing that. It doesn't usually (for me anyway). But anyway, that's absolutely not by design, and I'm going to chase that down and fix it. Thanks for letting me know it wasn't just a fluke on my machine. :)
Thanks for the extra details. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote:
Inline comments.
Peace.
=Rabbit On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote:
Thanks, Rabbit.
Responses inline. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote:
I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism constructively and improve the user experience.
Sure, I don't want you to sugar coat it. Although your tone throughout this email suggests that you thought I thought this was all finished and polished. It's a "prototype", dude.
I know it's a prototype. Apologies for my tone.
FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical perspective doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective. There was also no indication as to what the plugins were for and when I attempted to install them it failed. That latter criticism may be an issue with FireFox or OSX.
I totally agree. This doesn't happen on Windows, so I didn't see these problems. But another mac user reported seeing the same thing. I have an idea of how to fix this so please try again in a couple days and tell me if the problem hasn't gone away. Yes, it's InfoCard related, but it was not my intention to throw up all kinds of unpleasantness for those who don't have InfoCard support. It's supposed to be a very quiet "light-up" scenario if you have it, and completely and quietly missing if you don't.
Realistically, it's not a big deal. In FireFox it appears as a slide down bar the same that happens when asked to remember a password. I don't know enough about integrating with InfoCard, the reason I pointed it out is that there may be some Mozilla-oriented headers that will point its plugin searcher in the right direction.
Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A standard user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking an advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism towards the entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get into) but even with the popup approach there is room for improvement here. If you know the OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they do not offer a simple UI for popups, at least size the window to avoid horizontal scrollbars.
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.png
Working within the popup UI is still being developed for the OPs, and each of them are responsible for making it look good. Google supports it fully, as I'm sure you noticed. Yahoo claims to support it but don't get the window size right according to the UI extension draft spec and I hope they fix that or the spec (I don't care which). myopenid and verisign don't support it at all, and the larger popup window size I give non-supporters isn't apparently big enough for their large window demands. I'll see if I can fix that by just giving them a bigger window. Ideally, I hope this encourages these OPs to shrink their UI so it fits in smaller windows.
imho, I would prefer a new tab being opened if there is no known window dimensions. Unfortunately, that creates an even more inconsistent user experience.
Besides that, myopenid and Verisign aren't likely to be displayed in the final UI kit that I'm building until they meet the guidelines I wrote up. RPs can always add them though.
You'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
I agree. But see above.
The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to change my choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to redirect. Clicking login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled and I can't hit the back button. Between the popups and the redirects, a standard user might (and should) think they have a virus.
Now here you've lost me. Can you explain more precisely what's going on? Maybe it's a Mac thing (which I would of course still want to fix), but why do you say it's impossible to change your choice once you've made one? If you click one Provider and log in, you absolutely can pick another provider the next time you log in (although we make them appear grayer than the rest to discourage this). But remember this is targeted at normal users -- it's not targeted for testing multiple OPs. So a normal user would want to keep clicking the same button in order to avoid splintering their identity. That's a common complaint about OpenID: "Which button did I click on last time?" Or more practically: "I logged in [with the wrong button] and now all my stuff is gone!" Although the other buttons are gray, you can still click them.
I thought that was an intentional feature. I made a provider choice, clicked through to the provider, did not login (maybe that makes the difference?), went back to the original page and each time it would load for a second then instantly redirect me back to the OP I chose.
I had to load your page, hit stop quickly, click Login, hit stop quickly, then choose another provider. (You can understand my frustration! hah)
I wouldn't mind the auto-redirects if there were a visual countdown such as:
"You previously chose X as your provider. Redirecting in 3....2....1..." with a cancel button to make another choice.
I don't really see how this could be an OS-specific issue. If you have trouble duplicating this, contact me directly, I'll try to help pinpoint it.
Now what about this "page load tries to redirect". What does that mean? I've seen sites where the Back button takes you to a page that redirects you "forward" again, which is very aggravating. But on my browsers, this doesn't happen. The back button works as expected. Can you elaborate about what's broken?
It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID since it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more information would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!). Ok, maybe that last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort. I really need to put together a demo. I really hope you found my feedback useful.
Here I disagree with you, but your opinion is appreciated nonetheless. This is not a "promote OpenID" design. Some of the loudest feedback I hear from users who fail to log into RPs is that they don't know what OpenID is and they leave. This UI is designed for maximum user conversions to the RP's services, not to OpenID. RPs want users to log in -- they don't care whether users know what OpenID is, and users don't visit random RPs to learn about what OpenID is.
I only suggested it as OpenID is an option. It don't think it would hurt since you're already expanding the window with an input field to have a small link saying "What is this?" After all, that could easily be a path of discovery for many people who just haven't heard of OpenID yet but would love if they understood it.
A design requirement is to keep the UI as simple as possible, while providing flexibility where needed for power users. So links to learn about OpenID will be limited to what the RP's attorneys insist on saying for liability reasons.
Yes, your feedback was helpful -- and can be more so if you can provide some more detail about the issues I asked for more detail about.
=Rabbit
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Thanks, Ashish. Inline... -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Ashish Jain <email@...> wrote:
Great work. Couple of comments
- The green flag appearance/disappearance seems a bit shaky.
There may be javascript bugs to blame for some of this, but I think I've shaken all those out. The green flag only appears if the OP responds affirmatively to checkid_immediate, which Yahoo won't do, and other OPs do with a greater or lesser dependability. All the green flag does is suggest to the user that this login will be super-quick, since the authentication has already been done. So if it's absent, it's not really a big deal. Do you think users will be concerned by this?
- Does it make sense to only show the logo of the OP that I chose last time (with the option of switching of course)? Other than the experimentation mode, we don't expect users to keep switching on a frequent basis...do we?
Your assumption of users keeping with the same OP for the majority case makes sense to me as well. To display only the OP they logged in with as you describe is similar to the RPX model, which is good. I have a theory though, that users like consistent UI across visits. If they visit a site for the first time, and therefore see all the OP buttons, and the second time they visit they see something different, it throws a wrench in the works that we hope they'll overcome instead of get confused and leave. So I'm experimenting with leaving the UI mostly the same -- just graying out the choices that we think are not the right choices for the user to see how that works. But you might be right -- this may be the wrong approach.
- The mixing of protocol/framework logos (e.g. OpenID, Purple-i) with the OP logos might be a bit confusing.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you're talking about here.
- You will eventually hit the issue of many OPs with limited screen space. Would it make sense to have the text box accept OP names (e.g Google) with Facebook style auto-completion.
Perhaps, but my requirements for admission into this list of OP buttons is pretty stringent, and at the moment only Google and Yahoo really qualify. I really intend to avoid the NASCAR problem here by not throwing every OP with more than 10,000 users at them as buttons. You can read more about that in my design doc. Of course, once this "prototype" is finished, RPs are free to throw as many buttons on there as they want. But that's up to them, and the kit will ship with a suggested guidelines doc so they know what the trade-offs are.
Your suggestion about an auto-completion in the text box is very interesting. We'd have to do more to the UI surrounding the box to help users know that it's available.
Thanks,
-AshishOn Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Paul Madsen <paulmadsen@...> wrote:
Andrew, some random feedback
1) I used Google the first time. The next time I saw "If you have
logged in previously, click the same button you did last time.
"
But what if I want to use a different OP? I know nothing is stopping me
but the above feels too much like a directive
Perhaps 'You may use the same ...'
Also, although the Google icon had a little green flag on it, there was
no text alerting the user to the significance
2) When I used Yahoo, their page doesnt fit in the pop-up
Yahoo warned me about the bona fides of the RP (yes I know its not
under your control but its disconcerting nonetheless)
3) After successfully getting in with Yahoo, I saw the green check on
both Yahoo & Google icons. But when I logged out and came back the
check had disappeared from Yahoo.
This didnt happen for myOpenID & Verisign, ie their green checks do
light up along with Google's to record past successful use
4) I see the install plugins prompt on FF on Vista. The auto install
didnt work
5) I get a browser warning about 'unencrypted connection' only with
Yahoo - on the redirect from the OP back to RP
6) When I tried to use a blogspot OpenID,
( http://connectid.blogspot.com/) the RP validation script refuses to
recognize it ('No OP Endpoint found'.
Separately, the above error message could be less cryptic
Regards
Paul
Andrew Arnott wrote:
OpenID RP login UX
Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/
Design
considerations
The DNOA login UX design document contains the design
spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML,
CSS, and JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby,
python, php, coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET RP web sites can benefit from a better UI
for logging users in.
Interesting
scenarios to experiment with and/or test
- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page
redirect login UI.
- Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page.
This invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional
OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple
identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we
highlight the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not
splinter his identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts
with more than one displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate,
and on a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right
corner of an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green
checkmark is not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used
to guide the user through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as
Verisign and Yahoo) do not support checkid_immediate, and will never
display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as
soon as you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and
a login button appears within the text box. Next time you visit,
the UX will remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in
again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates
to multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you
go through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back
positive) is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to
log in with, and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that
are down or misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special
release notes
In this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog
approach to displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window.
This is still alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this
decision is most welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google,
Yahoo, Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications given in
the design document, but they are included here to assist in the
feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons
(Google, Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from
three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a
green checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to
complete login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve
yet. But the way to proceed with login is to click the original, large
OpenID button again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and
Safari 4. If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback
about how your experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older
browsers, so any bug reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to
leave feedback
Just reply to this message.
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
|
|
Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Thanks, Allen. Inline... -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Allen Tom <atom@...> wrote:
Hi Andrew -
The RP UX looks very promissing, and it'll be really slick with just a
little more polish.
Can you make the Yahoo popup a bit wider? Although the UI Draft spec
says that the popup is supposed to be 450px wide, Yahoo's popup is
500px wide. (our users prefer larger fonts)
Yes, I'll make the change.
Doh! How did I forget that? I've corrected it.
Because the OpenID authentication response exceeds 2KB, the Yahoo OP
automatically sends the response via HTTP POST, which results in a
degraded user experience. (browser warnings when switching from HTTPS
to HTTP) and also a "blank white page" for the autosubmitting form. I'm
a very surprised that the response exceeds 2KB on your demo site,
because generally speaking, OpenID responses that don't use AX or OAuth
Hybrid almost never exceed 2KB. I think your demo has an unusually
large return_to URL, which is contributing to the oversized response.
Yes, the return_to is large. DotNetOpenAuth does some return_to signatures so boost RP security, but in this case it's not serving any security purpose. I'll correct that.
On the Yahoo OP side of things, we're working on ways to shrink the
size of our responses to try to stay under the 2KB limit. For instance,
we'll be removing the PAPE responses unless they were requested, and
we'll try to shrink the size of our association handles.
Also, as others have reported, the browser plugin warning is a bit
distracting. I'm runing WinXP with Firefox. Presumably this should be
fairly easy to fix.
This should be fixed now.
Good job!
Allen
Andrew Arnott wrote:
OpenID RP login UX
Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/
Design
considerations
The DNOA login UX design document contains the design
spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML,
CSS, and JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby,
python, php, coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET RP web sites can benefit from a better UI
for logging users in.
Interesting
scenarios to experiment with and/or test
- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page
redirect login UI.
- Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page.
This invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional
OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple
identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we
highlight the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not
splinter his identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts
with more than one displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate,
and on a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right
corner of an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green
checkmark is not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used
to guide the user through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as
Verisign and Yahoo) do not support checkid_immediate, and will never
display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as
soon as you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and
a login button appears within the text box. Next time you visit,
the UX will remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in
again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates
to multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you
go through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back
positive) is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to
log in with, and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that
are down or misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special
release notes
In this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog
approach to displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window.
This is still alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this
decision is most welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google,
Yahoo, Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications given in
the design document, but they are included here to assist in the
feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons
(Google, Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from
three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a
green checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to
complete login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve
yet. But the way to proceed with login is to click the original, large
OpenID button again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and
Safari 4. If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback
about how your experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older
browsers, so any bug reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to
leave feedback
Just reply to this message.
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
_______________________________________________
general mailing list
general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
|
|
Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Good improvements, Andrew. Popups look great, plugin prompt did not appear.
As for the redirect issue, I don't know if this helps but looking at the headers it checks each of these in sequence: - Google? - MyOpenID? - Yahoo? - Verisign?
At which point it redirects me to login at PIP. Perhaps your prototype thinks I am signed into Versign.
=Rabbit On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:23 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote: Hey Rabbit,
So I fixed the popup window size and the plugin prompt (please verify!). Also, I happened to run into the same Back->auto-redirect behavior you just described. It was in IE8 for me, and I have no idea why it's doing that. It doesn't usually (for me anyway). But anyway, that's absolutely not by design, and I'm going to chase that down and fix it. Thanks for letting me know it wasn't just a fluke on my machine. :)
Thanks for the extra details. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote: Inline comments.
Peace.
=Rabbit On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote: Thanks, Rabbit.
Responses inline. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote: I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism constructively and improve the user experience.
Sure, I don't want you to sugar coat it. Although your tone throughout this email suggests that you thought I thought this was all finished and polished. It's a "prototype", dude.
I know it's a prototype. Apologies for my tone.
FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical perspective doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective. There was also no indication as to what the plugins were for and when I attempted to install them it failed. That latter criticism may be an issue with FireFox or OSX.
I totally agree. This doesn't happen on Windows, so I didn't see these problems. But another mac user reported seeing the same thing. I have an idea of how to fix this so please try again in a couple days and tell me if the problem hasn't gone away. Yes, it's InfoCard related, but it was not my intention to throw up all kinds of unpleasantness for those who don't have InfoCard support. It's supposed to be a very quiet "light-up" scenario if you have it, and completely and quietly missing if you don't.
Realistically, it's not a big deal. In FireFox it appears as a slide down bar the same that happens when asked to remember a password. I don't know enough about integrating with InfoCard, the reason I pointed it out is that there may be some Mozilla-oriented headers that will point its plugin searcher in the right direction.
Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A standard user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking an advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism towards the entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get into) but even with the popup approach there is room for improvement here. If you know the OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they do not offer a simple UI for popups, at least size the window to avoid horizontal scrollbars.
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.png
Working within the popup UI is still being developed for the OPs, and each of them are responsible for making it look good. Google supports it fully, as I'm sure you noticed. Yahoo claims to support it but don't get the window size right according to the UI extension draft spec and I hope they fix that or the spec (I don't care which). myopenid and verisign don't support it at all, and the larger popup window size I give non-supporters isn't apparently big enough for their large window demands. I'll see if I can fix that by just giving them a bigger window. Ideally, I hope this encourages these OPs to shrink their UI so it fits in smaller windows.
imho, I would prefer a new tab being opened if there is no known window dimensions. Unfortunately, that creates an even more inconsistent user experience.
Besides that, myopenid and Verisign aren't likely to be displayed in the final UI kit that I'm building until they meet the guidelines I wrote up. RPs can always add them though.
You'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
I agree. But see above.
The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to change my choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to redirect. Clicking login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled and I can't hit the back button. Between the popups and the redirects, a standard user might (and should) think they have a virus.
Now here you've lost me. Can you explain more precisely what's going on? Maybe it's a Mac thing (which I would of course still want to fix), but why do you say it's impossible to change your choice once you've made one? If you click one Provider and log in, you absolutely can pick another provider the next time you log in (although we make them appear grayer than the rest to discourage this). But remember this is targeted at normal users -- it's not targeted for testing multiple OPs. So a normal user would want to keep clicking the same button in order to avoid splintering their identity. That's a common complaint about OpenID: "Which button did I click on last time?" Or more practically: "I logged in [with the wrong button] and now all my stuff is gone!" Although the other buttons are gray, you can still click them.
I thought that was an intentional feature. I made a provider choice, clicked through to the provider, did not login (maybe that makes the difference?), went back to the original page and each time it would load for a second then instantly redirect me back to the OP I chose. I had to load your page, hit stop quickly, click Login, hit stop quickly, then choose another provider. (You can understand my frustration! hah)
I wouldn't mind the auto-redirects if there were a visual countdown such as: "You previously chose X as your provider. Redirecting in 3....2....1..." with a cancel button to make another choice.
I don't really see how this could be an OS-specific issue. If you have trouble duplicating this, contact me directly, I'll try to help pinpoint it.
Now what about this "page load tries to redirect". What does that mean? I've seen sites where the Back button takes you to a page that redirects you "forward" again, which is very aggravating. But on my browsers, this doesn't happen. The back button works as expected. Can you elaborate about what's broken?
It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID since it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more information would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!). Ok, maybe that last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort. I really need to put together a demo. I really hope you found my feedback useful.
Here I disagree with you, but your opinion is appreciated nonetheless. This is not a "promote OpenID" design. Some of the loudest feedback I hear from users who fail to log into RPs is that they don't know what OpenID is and they leave. This UI is designed for maximum user conversions to the RP's services, not to OpenID. RPs want users to log in -- they don't care whether users know what OpenID is, and users don't visit random RPs to learn about what OpenID is.
I only suggested it as OpenID is an option. It don't think it would hurt since you're already expanding the window with an input field to have a small link saying "What is this?" After all, that could easily be a path of discovery for many people who just haven't heard of OpenID yet but would love if they understood it. A design requirement is to keep the UI as simple as possible, while providing flexibility where needed for power users. So links to learn about OpenID will be limited to what the RP's attorneys insist on saying for liability reasons.
Yes, your feedback was helpful -- and can be more so if you can provide some more detail about the issues I asked for more detail about.
=Rabbit
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
It turns out that nasty redirect behavior that pulled you back to Verisign was due to a bug in Verisign's handling of checkid_immediate, which they are now aware of and investigating.
So aside from that redirect issue, which only comes up if you click on Verisign at least once, it seems, all fixes this forum has suggested have been published. So please feel free, everyone, to revisit http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/ and give fresh feedback (or remind me of something I may have missed in this discussion). -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote:
Good improvements, Andrew. Popups look great, plugin prompt did not appear.
As for the redirect issue, I don't know if this helps but looking at the headers it checks each of these in sequence:
- Google? - MyOpenID? - Yahoo? - Verisign?
At which point it redirects me to login at PIP. Perhaps your prototype thinks I am signed into Versign.
=Rabbit On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:23 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote: Hey Rabbit,
So I fixed the popup window size and the plugin prompt (please verify!). Also, I happened to run into the same Back->auto-redirect behavior you just described. It was in IE8 for me, and I have no idea why it's doing that. It doesn't usually (for me anyway). But anyway, that's absolutely not by design, and I'm going to chase that down and fix it. Thanks for letting me know it wasn't just a fluke on my machine. :)
Thanks for the extra details. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote:
Inline comments.
Peace.
=Rabbit On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote:
Thanks, Rabbit.
Responses inline. -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Rabbit <rabbit@...> wrote:
I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism constructively and improve the user experience.
Sure, I don't want you to sugar coat it. Although your tone throughout this email suggests that you thought I thought this was all finished and polished. It's a "prototype", dude.
I know it's a prototype. Apologies for my tone.
FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical perspective doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective. There was also no indication as to what the plugins were for and when I attempted to install them it failed. That latter criticism may be an issue with FireFox or OSX.
I totally agree. This doesn't happen on Windows, so I didn't see these problems. But another mac user reported seeing the same thing. I have an idea of how to fix this so please try again in a couple days and tell me if the problem hasn't gone away. Yes, it's InfoCard related, but it was not my intention to throw up all kinds of unpleasantness for those who don't have InfoCard support. It's supposed to be a very quiet "light-up" scenario if you have it, and completely and quietly missing if you don't.
Realistically, it's not a big deal. In FireFox it appears as a slide down bar the same that happens when asked to remember a password. I don't know enough about integrating with InfoCard, the reason I pointed it out is that there may be some Mozilla-oriented headers that will point its plugin searcher in the right direction.
Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A standard user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking an advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism towards the entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get into) but even with the popup approach there is room for improvement here. If you know the OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they do not offer a simple UI for popups, at least size the window to avoid horizontal scrollbars.
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.png
http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.png
Working within the popup UI is still being developed for the OPs, and each of them are responsible for making it look good. Google supports it fully, as I'm sure you noticed. Yahoo claims to support it but don't get the window size right according to the UI extension draft spec and I hope they fix that or the spec (I don't care which). myopenid and verisign don't support it at all, and the larger popup window size I give non-supporters isn't apparently big enough for their large window demands. I'll see if I can fix that by just giving them a bigger window. Ideally, I hope this encourages these OPs to shrink their UI so it fits in smaller windows.
imho, I would prefer a new tab being opened if there is no known window dimensions. Unfortunately, that creates an even more inconsistent user experience.
Besides that, myopenid and Verisign aren't likely to be displayed in the final UI kit that I'm building until they meet the guidelines I wrote up. RPs can always add them though.
You'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
I agree. But see above.
The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to change my choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to redirect. Clicking login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled and I can't hit the back button. Between the popups and the redirects, a standard user might (and should) think they have a virus.
Now here you've lost me. Can you explain more precisely what's going on? Maybe it's a Mac thing (which I would of course still want to fix), but why do you say it's impossible to change your choice once you've made one? If you click one Provider and log in, you absolutely can pick another provider the next time you log in (although we make them appear grayer than the rest to discourage this). But remember this is targeted at normal users -- it's not targeted for testing multiple OPs. So a normal user would want to keep clicking the same button in order to avoid splintering their identity. That's a common complaint about OpenID: "Which button did I click on last time?" Or more practically: "I logged in [with the wrong button] and now all my stuff is gone!" Although the other buttons are gray, you can still click them.
I thought that was an intentional feature. I made a provider choice, clicked through to the provider, did not login (maybe that makes the difference?), went back to the original page and each time it would load for a second then instantly redirect me back to the OP I chose.
I had to load your page, hit stop quickly, click Login, hit stop quickly, then choose another provider. (You can understand my frustration! hah)
I wouldn't mind the auto-redirects if there were a visual countdown such as:
"You previously chose X as your provider. Redirecting in 3....2....1..." with a cancel button to make another choice.
I don't really see how this could be an OS-specific issue. If you have trouble duplicating this, contact me directly, I'll try to help pinpoint it.
Now what about this "page load tries to redirect". What does that mean? I've seen sites where the Back button takes you to a page that redirects you "forward" again, which is very aggravating. But on my browsers, this doesn't happen. The back button works as expected. Can you elaborate about what's broken?
It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID since it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more information would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!). Ok, maybe that last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort. I really need to put together a demo. I really hope you found my feedback useful.
Here I disagree with you, but your opinion is appreciated nonetheless. This is not a "promote OpenID" design. Some of the loudest feedback I hear from users who fail to log into RPs is that they don't know what OpenID is and they leave. This UI is designed for maximum user conversions to the RP's services, not to OpenID. RPs want users to log in -- they don't care whether users know what OpenID is, and users don't visit random RPs to learn about what OpenID is.
I only suggested it as OpenID is an option. It don't think it would hurt since you're already expanding the window with an input field to have a small link saying "What is this?" After all, that could easily be a path of discovery for many people who just haven't heard of OpenID yet but would love if they understood it.
A design requirement is to keep the UI as simple as possible, while providing flexibility where needed for power users. So links to learn about OpenID will be limited to what the RP's attorneys insist on saying for liability reasons.
Yes, your feedback was helpful -- and can be more so if you can provide some more detail about the issues I asked for more detail about.
=Rabbit
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general@...
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Just a small note.
Great effort and real-time improvements. Feel much more comfortable
using these types of libraries when there is such great support and
follow through.
--Mike
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Andrew Arnott < andrewarnott@...> wrote:
> It turns out that nasty redirect behavior that pulled you back to Verisign
> was due to a bug in Verisign's handling of checkid_immediate, which they are
> now aware of and investigating.
> So aside from that redirect issue, which only comes up if you click on
> Verisign at least once, it seems, all fixes this forum has suggested have
> been published. So please feel free, everyone, to revisit
> http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/ and give fresh feedback (or remind me of
> something I may have missed in this discussion).
> --
> Andrew Arnott
> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death
> your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Rabbit < rabbit@...> wrote:
>>
>> Good improvements, Andrew.
>> Popups look great, plugin prompt did not appear.
>> As for the redirect issue, I don't know if this helps but looking at the
>> headers it checks each of these in sequence:
>> - Google?
>> - MyOpenID?
>> - Yahoo?
>> - Verisign?
>> At which point it redirects me to login at PIP.
>> Perhaps your prototype thinks I am signed into Versign.
>> =Rabbit
>> On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:23 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote:
>>
>> Hey Rabbit,
>> So I fixed the popup window size and the plugin prompt (please verify!).
>> Also, I happened to run into the same Back->auto-redirect behavior you just
>> described. It was in IE8 for me, and I have no idea why it's doing that.
>> It doesn't usually (for me anyway). But anyway, that's absolutely not by
>> design, and I'm going to chase that down and fix it. Thanks for letting me
>> know it wasn't just a fluke on my machine. :)
>> Thanks for the extra details.
>> --
>> Andrew Arnott
>> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death
>> your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Rabbit < rabbit@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Inline comments.
>>> Peace.
>>> =Rabbit
>>> On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Rabbit.
>>> Responses inline.
>>> --
>>> Andrew Arnott
>>> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
>>> death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Rabbit < rabbit@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I
>>>> would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism constructively
>>>> and improve the user experience.
>>>
>>> Sure, I don't want you to sugar coat it. Although your tone throughout
>>> this email suggests that you thought I thought this was all finished and
>>> polished. It's a "prototype", dude.
>>>
>>> I know it's a prototype. Apologies for my tone.
>>>>
>>>> FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously
>>>> these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical perspective
>>>> doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective. There was also no
>>>> indication as to what the plugins were for and when I attempted to install
>>>> them it failed. That latter criticism may be an issue with FireFox or OSX.
>>>
>>> I totally agree. This doesn't happen on Windows, so I didn't see these
>>> problems. But another mac user reported seeing the same thing. I have an
>>> idea of how to fix this so please try again in a couple days and tell me if
>>> the problem hasn't gone away. Yes, it's InfoCard related, but it was not my
>>> intention to throw up all kinds of unpleasantness for those who don't have
>>> InfoCard support. It's supposed to be a very quiet "light-up" scenario if
>>> you have it, and completely and quietly missing if you don't.
>>>
>>> Realistically, it's not a big deal. In FireFox it appears as a slide down
>>> bar the same that happens when asked to remember a password. I don't know
>>> enough about integrating with InfoCard, the reason I pointed it out is that
>>> there may be some Mozilla-oriented headers that will point its plugin
>>> searcher in the right direction.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A standard
>>>> user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking an
>>>> advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism towards the
>>>> entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get into) but even with
>>>> the popup approach there is room for improvement here. If you know the
>>>> OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they do not offer a simple UI for
>>>> popups, at least size the window to avoid horizontal scrollbars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.png>>>>
>>>> http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.png>>>>
>>>> http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.png>>>
>>> Working within the popup UI is still being developed for the OPs, and
>>> each of them are responsible for making it look good. Google supports it
>>> fully, as I'm sure you noticed. Yahoo claims to support it but don't get
>>> the window size right according to the UI extension draft spec and I hope
>>> they fix that or the spec (I don't care which). myopenid and verisign don't
>>> support it at all, and the larger popup window size I give non-supporters
>>> isn't apparently big enough for their large window demands. I'll see if I
>>> can fix that by just giving them a bigger window. Ideally, I hope this
>>> encourages these OPs to shrink their UI so it fits in smaller windows.
>>>
>>> imho, I would prefer a new tab being opened if there is no known window
>>> dimensions. Unfortunately, that creates an even more inconsistent user
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> Besides that, myopenid and Verisign aren't likely to be displayed in the
>>> final UI kit that I'm building until they meet the guidelines I wrote up.
>>> RPs can always add them though.
>>>>
>>>> You'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its
>>>> security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
>>>
>>> I agree. But see above.
>>>>
>>>> The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to
>>>> test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to change my
>>>> choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to redirect. Clicking
>>>> login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled and I can't hit the back
>>>> button. Between the popups and the redirects, a standard user might (and
>>>> should) think they have a virus.
>>>
>>> Now here you've lost me. Can you explain more precisely what's going on?
>>> Maybe it's a Mac thing (which I would of course still want to fix), but why
>>> do you say it's impossible to change your choice once you've made one? If
>>> you click one Provider and log in, you absolutely can pick another provider
>>> the next time you log in (although we make them appear grayer than the rest
>>> to discourage this). But remember this is targeted at normal users -- it's
>>> not targeted for testing multiple OPs. So a normal user would want to keep
>>> clicking the same button in order to avoid splintering their identity.
>>> That's a common complaint about OpenID: "Which button did I click on last
>>> time?" Or more practically: "I logged in [with the wrong button] and now
>>> all my stuff is gone!" Although the other buttons are gray, you can still
>>> click them.
>>>
>>> I thought that was an intentional feature. I made a provider choice,
>>> clicked through to the provider, did not login (maybe that makes the
>>> difference?), went back to the original page and each time it would load for
>>> a second then instantly redirect me back to the OP I chose.
>>> I had to load your page, hit stop quickly, click Login, hit stop quickly,
>>> then choose another provider. (You can understand my frustration! hah)
>>> I wouldn't mind the auto-redirects if there were a visual countdown such
>>> as:
>>> "You previously chose X as your provider. Redirecting in 3....2....1..."
>>> with a cancel button to make another choice.
>>> I don't really see how this could be an OS-specific issue. If you have
>>> trouble duplicating this, contact me directly, I'll try to help pinpoint it.
>>>
>>> Now what about this "page load tries to redirect". What does that mean?
>>> I've seen sites where the Back button takes you to a page that redirects
>>> you "forward" again, which is very aggravating. But on my browsers, this
>>> doesn't happen. The back button works as expected. Can you elaborate about
>>> what's broken?
>>>>
>>>> It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID since
>>>> it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more information
>>>> would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!). Ok, maybe that
>>>> last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort. I really need to put
>>>> together a demo. I really hope you found my feedback useful.
>>>
>>> Here I disagree with you, but your opinion is appreciated nonetheless.
>>> This is not a "promote OpenID" design. Some of the loudest feedback I hear
>>> from users who fail to log into RPs is that they don't know what OpenID is
>>> and they leave. This UI is designed for maximum user conversions to the
>>> RP's services, not to OpenID. RPs want users to log in -- they don't care
>>> whether users know what OpenID is, and users don't visit random RPs to learn
>>> about what OpenID is.
>>>
>>> I only suggested it as OpenID is an option. It don't think it would hurt
>>> since you're already expanding the window with an input field to have a
>>> small link saying "What is this?" After all, that could easily be a path of
>>> discovery for many people who just haven't heard of OpenID yet but would
>>> love if they understood it.
>>>
>>> A design requirement is to keep the UI as simple as possible, while
>>> providing flexibility where needed for power users. So links to learn about
>>> OpenID will be limited to what the RP's attorneys insist on saying for
>>> liability reasons.
>>> Yes, your feedback was helpful -- and can be more so if you can provide
>>> some more detail about the issues I asked for more detail about.
>>>>
>>>> =Rabbit
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> general mailing list
> general@...
> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general>
>
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Thanks again, Paul. More thoughts inline... -- Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Andrew Arnott <andrewarnott@...> wrote:
Thanks, Paul. The issues you pointed out have or will be fixed. Except for the connectid.blogspot.com issue, which works for me. Can you try it again?
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
Andrew, some random feedback
1) I used Google the first time. The next time I saw "If you have
logged in previously, click the same button you did last time.
"
But what if I want to use a different OP? I know nothing is stopping me
but the above feels too much like a directive
Perhaps 'You may use the same ...'
I see your point, but I think people who deliberately want to have two accounts with one RP are in the extreme minority. And these are the same type of people (I believe) that won't let a directive like this text stop them from doing what they want anyway.
On the flipside, most people who won't want to splinter their account need to be told that they really should pick the same one every time, even if "well, today I'm logged into Yahoo, but yesterday I logged in with Google, so I'll just do Yahoo this time".
Also, although the Google icon had a little green flag on it, there was
no text alerting the user to the significance
Well, there's a tooltip if you hover over the green checkmark, but I agree, that's not very discoverable. And the text of the tooltip is a simple "We recognize you!" text. I'd hate to confuse the user with the details of exactly what that checkmark means, aside from these two points "you've selected this one before", and "we've already logged you in, so this is gonna be fast". What do you think would be the optimal way to share the green flag significance?
2) When I used Yahoo, their page doesnt fit in the pop-up
I fixed that.
Yahoo warned me about the bona fides of the RP (yes I know its not
under your control but its disconcerting nonetheless)
I fixed that.
3) After successfully getting in with Yahoo, I saw the green check on
both Yahoo & Google icons. But when I logged out and came back the
check had disappeared from Yahoo.
That's because Yahoo doesn't support checkid_immediate authentication.
This didnt happen for myOpenID & Verisign, ie their green checks do
light up along with Google's to record past successful use
4) I see the install plugins prompt on FF on Vista. The auto install
didnt work
I removed the plugin prompt.
5) I get a browser warning about 'unencrypted connection' only with
Yahoo - on the redirect from the OP back to RP
I fixed that.
And I suspect this was a transient problem, because this worked for me.
Separately, the above error message could be less cryptic
Regards
Paul
Andrew Arnott wrote:
OpenID RP login UX
Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/
Design
considerations
The DNOA login UX design document contains the design
spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML,
CSS, and JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby,
python, php, coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET RP web sites can benefit from a better UI
for logging users in.
Interesting
scenarios to experiment with and/or test
- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page
redirect login UI.
- Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page.
This invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional
OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple
identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we
highlight the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not
splinter his identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts
with more than one displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate,
and on a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right
corner of an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green
checkmark is not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used
to guide the user through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as
Verisign and Yahoo) do not support checkid_immediate, and will never
display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as
soon as you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and
a login button appears within the text box. Next time you visit,
the UX will remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in
again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates
to multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you
go through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back
positive) is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to
log in with, and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that
are down or misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special
release notes
In this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog
approach to displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window.
This is still alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this
decision is most welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google,
Yahoo, Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications given in
the design document, but they are included here to assist in the
feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons
(Google, Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from
three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a
green checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to
complete login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve
yet. But the way to proceed with login is to click the original, large
OpenID button again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and
Safari 4. If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback
about how your experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older
browsers, so any bug reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to
leave feedback
Just reply to this message.
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Thanks, Mike.
That brings up an interesting next topic: assuming this login UX is generally favored by the community, the next step after stabilization would be to package it up in an archive of .css, .js, and .html files that any site can use with any OpenID library. I don't have the time nor the expertise in non-.NET platforms or other OpenID libraries to integrate the resulting archive into these libraries and/or their sample RP sites.
Are there any OpenID experts out there that are willing to contribute to their favorite OpenID library so that this UX can be leveraged on their platform/site/language? --
Andrew Arnott "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Mike Kirkwood <mike@...> wrote:
Just a small note.
Great effort and real-time improvements. Feel much more comfortable
using these types of libraries when there is such great support and
follow through.
--Mike
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Andrew Arnott < andrewarnott@...> wrote:
> It turns out that nasty redirect behavior that pulled you back to Verisign
> was due to a bug in Verisign's handling of checkid_immediate, which they are
> now aware of and investigating.
> So aside from that redirect issue, which only comes up if you click on
> Verisign at least once, it seems, all fixes this forum has suggested have
> been published. So please feel free, everyone, to revisit
> http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/ and give fresh feedback (or remind me of
> something I may have missed in this discussion).
> --
> Andrew Arnott
> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death
> your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Rabbit < rabbit@...> wrote:
>>
>> Good improvements, Andrew.
>> Popups look great, plugin prompt did not appear.
>> As for the redirect issue, I don't know if this helps but looking at the
>> headers it checks each of these in sequence:
>> - Google?
>> - MyOpenID?
>> - Yahoo?
>> - Verisign?
>> At which point it redirects me to login at PIP.
>> Perhaps your prototype thinks I am signed into Versign.
>> =Rabbit
>> On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:23 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote:
>>
>> Hey Rabbit,
>> So I fixed the popup window size and the plugin prompt (please verify!).
>> Also, I happened to run into the same Back->auto-redirect behavior you just
>> described. It was in IE8 for me, and I have no idea why it's doing that.
>> It doesn't usually (for me anyway). But anyway, that's absolutely not by
>> design, and I'm going to chase that down and fix it. Thanks for letting me
>> know it wasn't just a fluke on my machine. :)
>> Thanks for the extra details.
>> --
>> Andrew Arnott
>> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death
>> your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Rabbit < rabbit@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Inline comments.
>>> Peace.
>>> =Rabbit
>>> On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Rabbit.
>>> Responses inline.
>>> --
>>> Andrew Arnott
>>> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
>>> death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Rabbit < rabbit@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I won't sugar coat this. If I encountered this interface in the wild I
>>>> would be furious. I hope you are able to take this criticism constructively
>>>> and improve the user experience.
>>>
>>> Sure, I don't want you to sugar coat it. Although your tone throughout
>>> this email suggests that you thought I thought this was all finished and
>>> polished. It's a "prototype", dude.
>>>
>>> I know it's a prototype. Apologies for my tone.
>>>>
>>>> FireFox on OSX receives multiple plugin download requests. Obviously
>>>> these are related to InfoCard but "explainable" from a technical perspective
>>>> doesn't translate to "acceptable" from a user perspective. There was also no
>>>> indication as to what the plugins were for and when I attempted to install
>>>> them it failed. That latter criticism may be an issue with FireFox or OSX.
>>>
>>> I totally agree. This doesn't happen on Windows, so I didn't see these
>>> problems. But another mac user reported seeing the same thing. I have an
>>> idea of how to fix this so please try again in a couple days and tell me if
>>> the problem hasn't gone away. Yes, it's InfoCard related, but it was not my
>>> intention to throw up all kinds of unpleasantness for those who don't have
>>> InfoCard support. It's supposed to be a very quiet "light-up" scenario if
>>> you have it, and completely and quietly missing if you don't.
>>>
>>> Realistically, it's not a big deal. In FireFox it appears as a slide down
>>> bar the same that happens when asked to remember a password. I don't know
>>> enough about integrating with InfoCard, the reason I pointed it out is that
>>> there may be some Mozilla-oriented headers that will point its plugin
>>> searcher in the right direction.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Almost every popup window was irritating and appeared broken. A standard
>>>> user would most likely think they were tricked into clicking an
>>>> advertisement. This somewhat extends into my general criticism towards the
>>>> entire popup standard being promoted (which I won't get into) but even with
>>>> the popup approach there is room for improvement here. If you know the
>>>> OpenID provider you are sending me to, and they do not offer a simple UI for
>>>> popups, at least size the window to avoid horizontal scrollbars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture3.png
>>>>
>>>> http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture4.png
>>>>
>>>> http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/rabbyte/?action=view¤t=Picture5.png
>>>
>>> Working within the popup UI is still being developed for the OPs, and
>>> each of them are responsible for making it look good. Google supports it
>>> fully, as I'm sure you noticed. Yahoo claims to support it but don't get
>>> the window size right according to the UI extension draft spec and I hope
>>> they fix that or the spec (I don't care which). myopenid and verisign don't
>>> support it at all, and the larger popup window size I give non-supporters
>>> isn't apparently big enough for their large window demands. I'll see if I
>>> can fix that by just giving them a bigger window. Ideally, I hope this
>>> encourages these OPs to shrink their UI so it fits in smaller windows.
>>>
>>> imho, I would prefer a new tab being opened if there is no known window
>>> dimensions. Unfortunately, that creates an even more inconsistent user
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> Besides that, myopenid and Verisign aren't likely to be displayed in the
>>> final UI kit that I'm building until they meet the guidelines I wrote up.
>>> RPs can always add them though.
>>>>
>>>> You'll also notice that the MyOpenID popup is slightly hiding its
>>>> security feature on the top right. There's just no excuse for that.
>>>
>>> I agree. But see above.
>>>>
>>>> The automatic redirecting is absolutely atrocious! Even just trying to
>>>> test this out for feedback was excruciating. It is impossible to change my
>>>> choice once I have made a choice. Page load tries to redirect. Clicking
>>>> login tries to redirect. My history gets mangled and I can't hit the back
>>>> button. Between the popups and the redirects, a standard user might (and
>>>> should) think they have a virus.
>>>
>>> Now here you've lost me. Can you explain more precisely what's going on?
>>> Maybe it's a Mac thing (which I would of course still want to fix), but why
>>> do you say it's impossible to change your choice once you've made one? If
>>> you click one Provider and log in, you absolutely can pick another provider
>>> the next time you log in (although we make them appear grayer than the rest
>>> to discourage this). But remember this is targeted at normal users -- it's
>>> not targeted for testing multiple OPs. So a normal user would want to keep
>>> clicking the same button in order to avoid splintering their identity.
>>> That's a common complaint about OpenID: "Which button did I click on last
>>> time?" Or more practically: "I logged in [with the wrong button] and now
>>> all my stuff is gone!" Although the other buttons are gray, you can still
>>> click them.
>>>
>>> I thought that was an intentional feature. I made a provider choice,
>>> clicked through to the provider, did not login (maybe that makes the
>>> difference?), went back to the original page and each time it would load for
>>> a second then instantly redirect me back to the OP I chose.
>>> I had to load your page, hit stop quickly, click Login, hit stop quickly,
>>> then choose another provider. (You can understand my frustration! hah)
>>> I wouldn't mind the auto-redirects if there were a visual countdown such
>>> as:
>>> "You previously chose X as your provider. Redirecting in 3....2....1..."
>>> with a cancel button to make another choice.
>>> I don't really see how this could be an OS-specific issue. If you have
>>> trouble duplicating this, contact me directly, I'll try to help pinpoint it.
>>>
>>> Now what about this "page load tries to redirect". What does that mean?
>>> I've seen sites where the Back button takes you to a page that redirects
>>> you "forward" again, which is very aggravating. But on my browsers, this
>>> doesn't happen. The back button works as expected. Can you elaborate about
>>> what's broken?
>>>>
>>>> It also wouldn't hurt to provide a little information about OpenID since
>>>> it is an option. Even linking to a tutorial site to provide more information
>>>> would be helpful (hey! and you could use another popup!). Ok, maybe that
>>>> last remark was a little mean. I appreciate the effort. I really need to put
>>>> together a demo. I really hope you found my feedback useful.
>>>
>>> Here I disagree with you, but your opinion is appreciated nonetheless.
>>> This is not a "promote OpenID" design. Some of the loudest feedback I hear
>>> from users who fail to log into RPs is that they don't know what OpenID is
>>> and they leave. This UI is designed for maximum user conversions to the
>>> RP's services, not to OpenID. RPs want users to log in -- they don't care
>>> whether users know what OpenID is, and users don't visit random RPs to learn
>>> about what OpenID is.
>>>
>>> I only suggested it as OpenID is an option. It don't think it would hurt
>>> since you're already expanding the window with an input field to have a
>>> small link saying "What is this?" After all, that could easily be a path of
>>> discovery for many people who just haven't heard of OpenID yet but would
>>> love if they understood it.
>>>
>>> A design requirement is to keep the UI as simple as possible, while
>>> providing flexibility where needed for power users. So links to learn about
>>> OpenID will be limited to what the RP's attorneys insist on saying for
>>> liability reasons.
>>> Yes, your feedback was helpful -- and can be more so if you can provide
>>> some more detail about the issues I asked for more detail about.
>>>>
>>>> =Rabbit
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Andrew Arnott wrote:
>
> That's because Yahoo doesn't support checkid_immediate authentication.
>
Quick update - The Yahoo OP will be supporting checkid_immediate
sometime in Q1 of next year.
We need to make a few UI changes to support it, specifically, we need to
put a checkbox on our approval page for the user to opt-into allowing
checkid_immediate on return visits to the RP. We also need to build a
screen for users to see which RPs have checkid_immediate enabled, and a
way for users to un-select this preference.
Allen
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Re: [OpenID] Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
Awesome- I can’t wait! Thanks for the update Allen.
On 10/28/09 5:27 PM, "Allen Tom" <atom@...> wrote:
Andrew Arnott wrote:
>
> That's because Yahoo doesn't support checkid_immediate authentication.
>
Quick update - The Yahoo OP will be supporting checkid_immediate
sometime in Q1 of next year.
We need to make a few UI changes to support it, specifically, we need to
put a checkbox on our approval page for the user to opt-into allowing
checkid_immediate on return visits to the RP. We also need to build a
screen for users to see which RPs have checkid_immediate enabled, and a
way for users to un-select this preference.
Allen
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Re: Feedback requested: New OpenID RP login UX prototype
having logged in using myopenid, the profile page showed my current login token. The same had happened earlier, with a Google based signin.
There is also an openid uri typing box. I wanted to use it to see the parallel account linking process in action. I got frustrated with that UI, because I could not remember the magic uri that invokes google OP. Might want to have there a button that invokes the nascar display, much like the infocard button.
Andrew Arnott wrote:
OpenID RP login UX
Live demo location: http://openidux.dotnetopenauth.net/Design considerations
The DNOA< http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AXB25E7fZcQCZGY1bm40ampfMTkxaHJ2emZya3M&hl=en>
login
UX design document< http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AXB25E7fZcQCZGY1bm40ampfMTkxaHJ2emZya3M&hl=en>
contains
the design spec, and some of the reasoning that went into that design.
One high-level goal of all this work is to produce a set of HTML, CSS, and
JS files that can work on any web platform, so that ruby, python, php,
coldfusion, and (of course) ASP.NET < http://asp.net/> RP web sites can
benefit from a better UI for logging users in.
Interesting scenarios to experiment with and/or test
- Login by clicking on Members Only. This invokes the full page redirect
login UI.
- Login by clicking Login in the upper-right corner of the page. This
invokes the popup dialog UI.
- Visit the account management page and add additional
OpenIDs or InfoCards to your account so you can log in with multiple
identities yet be recognized as holding just one account.
- Login multiple times, using various OPs. Notice first that we highlight
the button you chose the prior time. This helps the user not splinter his
identity on a return visit in the event he has accounts with more than one
displayed OP.
- Notice that in the login UI some OPs support checkid_immediate, and on
a return visit, a green checkmark appears in the lower-right corner of
an OP button when an immediate login is available. If a green checkmark is
not visible on an OP button, a popup window will be used to guide the user
through the initial login process. Some OPs (such as Verisign and Yahoo) do
not support checkid_immediate, and will never display green checkmarks.
- When logging in, try using the OpenID button. Notice that as soon as
you finish typing that discovery on that identifier begins and a login
button appears within the text box. Next time you visit, the UX will
remember what identifier you typed in and help you log in again.
- Try using the OpenID button with an identifier that delegates to
multiple OPs. Notice how the Login button that appears to help you go
through checkid_setup (if no checkid_immediate requests come back positive)
is a split button, allowing you to actually pick which OP to log in with,
and these OPs are in priority order (adjusted for OPs that are down or
misbehaving, which are moved to the bottom).
Special release notes
In this iteration, I've elected to go with the popup dialog approach to
displaying the login UI rather than a popup browser window. This is still
alterable, and your feedback and/or preferences on this decision is most
welcome.
The current set of OP buttons displayed include 4 OPs: Google, Yahoo,
Verisign and MyOpenID. The last two of these do not fit the qualifications
given in the design document, but they are included here to assist in the
feedback process, and because I don't know how to make four buttons (Google,
Yahoo, OpenID and InfoCard) look good, so I jumped up from three to six.
In the OpenID text box area, after authentication completes a green
checkmark is displayed, but sometimes no login button appears to complete
login. This is a UX issue I haven't figured out how to solve yet. But the
way to proceed with login is to click the original, large OpenID button
again.
The browsers I've tested with are IE8, Chrome 3, FireFox 3.5 and Safari 4.
If you test with other/older browsers, please leave feedback about how your
experience was. But currently I'm not targeting older browsers, so any bug
reports regarding backward compatibility may not be fixed.
How to leave feedback
Just reply to this message.
--
Andrew Arnott
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death
your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
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