Flipping Photos Review

[Dale Beams]

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I've just had a user explain to me that they had the same issues on photos flipping.  After careful review, they found in a sequence of photos, hugin was creating control points on no related images.  For example, in a consecutive series of 8 photos begining from left to right you might find photos 2 and 5 with control points on them.  This was confusing the stitcher.  Has anyone else whose had flipping photo problems noticed this as well?  This would be yet another reason to be able to set a sequence order, etc. etc.

I did notice that some other programs are able to dump multiple photos in the program and it would sepearte the panos.  Junk photos are also being seperated.  Is this beyond the reach of Hugin and related programs?

Dale

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[Tduell]

Hullo Dale,

On Oct 13, 2:30 pm, Dale Beams <drbe...@...> wrote:
> I've just had a user explain to me that they had the same issues on photos flipping.  
[snip]
 > Has anyone else whose had flipping photo problems noticed this as
well?  This would be yet another reason to be able to set a sequence
order, etc. etc.

I reckon I have seen this behaviour, but I doubt that I could quickly
find that set of photos, which I would need to do to be able to nail
down which version of hugin I was using at the time.
I will see what I can find.

Cheers,
Terry


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[Yuval Levy-6]

Dale Beams wrote:
> Has anyone else whose had flipping photo problems noticed this as well?

in the days before I started using Hugin I had two or three cases of
architectural panos with a lot of symmetry that fooled PTgui. I provided
one to Joost as a test case.


> This would be yet another reason to be able to set a sequence order, etc. etc.

I think with the new layout it will be possible. Also the recently
introduced statistical cleaning of CP might help, although in cases of
pure symmetry it won't help alone.

One thing that could be added to the equation is the information from
the files sequence (filenames and / or timestamps).

*Setting* (or pre-setting) things, as you precognize, is easy. It is
also manual and tedious. What would really be nice is if the automated
tools would recognize and fix this kind of situation. cpclean does it if
there is no symmetry.

I should grab my old test case and try it.


> I did notice that some other programs are able to dump multiple photos
 > in the program and it would sepearte the panos.
 > Junk photos are also being seperated.
 > Is this beyond the reach of Hugin and related programs?

It already exists.
<http://search.cpan.org/~bpostle/Panotools-Script-0.23/bin/panostart>

Just not integrated in the GUI. Not sure how much a GUI makes sense for
this use case. I have a license of Autopano Pro (which is *the* "other
program"). It works, but the GUI and system overhead around it are a
drag. I very much prefer to run panostart on the server.

Yuv

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[Dale Beams]

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Does Hugin have a "plug-in" module?

Download and add "panostart" as a plug-in and a gui button option get's pulled in as well.

I'm never one who'd advocate adding more code for bloat, but I've not stumbled across this before.  Now I know it's there I wouldn't have an issue dumping 5-6 pano's into it a day.

Recently I've been looking at rigging a remote trigger for the camera, as I'm unable to keep it as steady as I need to for Hugin to find points on clear photos.  My photos can be a little blurry from time to time.

Dale

> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:45:25 -0400
> From: google@...
> To: hugin-ptx@...
> Subject: [hugin-ptx] Re: Flipping Photos Review
>
>
> Dale Beams wrote:
> > Has anyone else whose had flipping photo problems noticed this as well?
>
> in the days before I started using Hugin I had two or three cases of
> architectural panos with a lot of symmetry that fooled PTgui. I provided
> one to Joost as a test case.
>
>
> > This would be yet another reason to be able to set a sequence order, etc. etc.
>
> I think with the new layout it will be possible. Also the recently
> introduced statistical cleaning of CP might help, although in cases of
> pure symmetry it won't help alone.
>
> One thing that could be added to the equation is the information from
> the files sequence (filenames and / or timestamps).
>
> *Setting* (or pre-setting) things, as you precognize, is easy. It is
> also manual and tedious. What would really be nice is if the automated
> tools would recognize and fix this kind of situation. cpclean does it if
> there is no symmetry.
>
> I should grab my old test case and try it.
>
>
> > I did notice that some other programs are able to dump multiple photos
> > in the program and it would sepearte the panos.
> > Junk photos are also being seperated.
> > Is this beyond the reach of Hugin and related programs?
>
> It already exists.
> <http://search.cpan.org/~bpostle/Panotools-Script-0.23/bin/panostart>
>
> Just not integrated in the GUI. Not sure how much a GUI makes sense for
> this use case. I have a license of Autopano Pro (which is *the* "other
> program"). It works, but the GUI and system overhead around it are a
> drag. I very much prefer to run panostart on the server.
>
> Yuv
>
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[Yuval Levy-6]

Dale Beams wrote:
> Does Hugin have a "plug-in" module?

control point finders are a plug-in - hence when you say "Hugin finds
points" you make a shortcut. you could be using autopano-sift-C,
pan-o-matic, match-point or any other.

theoretically also the warping function is plug-in, but currently only
nona is supported (adding PTmender should not be too difficult).

also for blending - although currently it is enblend and enfuse. there
is a wrapper for smartblend.


> Download and add "panostart" as a plug-in and a gui button option get's pulled in as well.

not the same "architecture". these are all plugins within the workflow,
while panostart is to set up the beginning of a workflow. egg and
chicken problem.

I don't think that adding a GUI to panostart is that difficult, but I
also don't see it as a priority. it works well from the command line,
and this is where the value is, simply because there are other steps
that need to be scripted at the same time (such as RAW conversion).

Yuv

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[Lukáš Jirkovský]

2009/10/13 Tduell <tduell@...>:

>
> Hullo Dale,
>
> On Oct 13, 2:30 pm, Dale Beams <drbe...@...> wrote:
>> I've just had a user explain to me that they had the same issues on photos flipping.
> [snip]
>  > Has anyone else whose had flipping photo problems noticed this as
> well?  This would be yet another reason to be able to set a sequence
> order, etc. etc.
>
> I reckon I have seen this behaviour, but I doubt that I could quickly
> find that set of photos, which I would need to do to be able to nail
> down which version of hugin I was using at the time.
> I will see what I can find.
>
> Cheers,
> Terry
>
>
> >
>

I've got set [1] of photos which suffer from this problem even after
the tool for removal bad control points were added.

[1] http://blender6xx.ic.cz/pub/test_case.tar (27MB)

Lukas

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[AKS-Gmail-IMAP]

Dale,

I bet one quick look at the control point tells you why a control point is mismatched. Use your judgement to decide what parts of a scene are likely to result in errant control points, then take measures to check those images or don't allow the feature matcher to operate on those images. You can do that.  The feature matching process operates only on the selected images when two or more images are selected in the Images Tab . It is not necessary to wait for the process to compare all 25 images in a project to the 26th image when you know only the Xth image has points in common with the 26th. If you are using OS X, it is the Command key that allows one to select multiple images in the list that are non-consecutive.

Allan

On Oct 12, 2009, at 10:30 PM, Dale Beams wrote:

I've just had a user explain to me that they had the same issues on photos flipping.  After careful review, they found in a sequence of photos, hugin was creating control points on no related images.  For example, in a consecutive series of 8 photos begining from left to right you might find photos 2 and 5 with control points on them.  This was confusing the stitcher.  Has anyone else whose had flipping photo problems noticed this as well?  This would be yet another reason to be able to set a sequence order, etc. etc.

I did notice that some other programs are able to dump multiple photos in the program and it would sepearte the panos.  Junk photos are also being seperated.  Is this beyond the reach of Hugin and related programs?

Dale

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[Bruno Postle]

On Tue 13-Oct-2009 at 00:45 -0400, Yuval Levy wrote:

>> I did notice that some other programs are able to dump multiple photos
> > in the program and it would sepearte the panos.
> > Junk photos are also being seperated.
> > Is this beyond the reach of Hugin and related programs?

A feature someone suggested for Hugin would be to offer to split
unconnected groups of photos into separate projects.

>It already exists.
><http://search.cpan.org/~bpostle/Panotools-Script-0.23/bin/panostart>
>
>Just not integrated in the GUI. Not sure how much a GUI makes sense for
>this use case.

Athough I use panostart for everything and use the Hugin GUI when
panoramas need tweaking, panostart is still a prototype - I could
imagine this functionality being added to a file browser or photo
manager.

--
Bruno

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[J. Schneider-2]

> It already exists.
> <http://search.cpan.org/~bpostle/Panotools-Script-0.23/bin/panostart>
I believe I used Alexandre Jenny's Autopano on the command line for this
purpose. And generally it worked quite well, as long as panoramas didn't
contain too similar photos.
Anyway I would like to try those Panotools-Scripts. But to me it looks
like they are not ready to run on Windows (with perl installed) right
out of the box. Could someone give me a hint about what to do to make
them usable on Windows?

regards
Joachim

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[J. Schneider-2]

AKS-Gmail-IMAP schrieb:
> ... It is not necessary to wait for the process to compare all 25
> images in a project to the 26th image when you know only the Xth image
> has points in common with the 26th. If you are using OS X, it is the
> Command key that allows one to select multiple images in the list that
> are non-consecutive.

This is more of a workaround than a workflow for everyday use.
Choosing consecutive images to get cps generated is generally OK but
tedious if you have a simple one-row panorama. But in a (maybe
hand-held) mosaic you don't want to spend your time on deciding which
images might overlap a bit and which don't.
When I have problems like this (quite often) I try to find the wrong cps
by sorting the cp table by e.g. left image number and then have a look
which images are listed in the right image column. This way pairs that
don't belong together are often quite easy to identify.
But now this should be even easier with the new feature of showing cp
pairs as lines in the fast preview.

regards
Joachim

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