For Approval: Socialtext Public License ("STPL")

[Ross Mayfield]

The Socialtext Public License ("STPL") license is based on the Mozilla Public License with all of the modifications in Exhibit B.   Exhibit B include an attribution provision based on the Adaptive Public License and a network use provision based on the Affero license. Socialtext believes that the application software has special needs as compared to operating systems because of the application software can be used anonymously in large distributions and can be used to provide services through an ASP which does not provide modifications back to the community. None of the approved OSI approved licenses include both a network use provision and an attribution provision. We have limited the new provisions to those which are either the same or very close to provisions from existing licenses (see above).  

The license can be used with any software which is licensed under the MPL and licenses compatible with the MPL. The STPL will take precedence for combined works. Some licenses such as the GPL which are incompatible with the MPL are also incompatible to the STPL.

STPL is below in HTML format and attached as a text file.  I look forward to the discussion,

Ross
--
Ross Mayfield
CEO
Socialtext, Inc.
company: http://www.socialtext.com
weblog: http://ross.typepad.com
this email is: [ X ] bloggable [ ] ask first [ ] private
--

Socialtext Public License Version 2.0 (STPL)



1. Definitions.



1.0.1. "Commercial Use" means distribution or otherwise making the Covered Code available to a third party.



1.1. ''Contributor'' means each entity that creates or contributes to the creation of Modifications.



1.2. ''Contributor Version'' means the combination of the Original Code, prior Modifications used by a Contributor, and the Modifications made by that particular Contributor.



1.3. ''Covered Code'' means the Original Code or Modifications or the combination of the Original Code and Modifications, in each case including portions thereof.



1.4. ''Electronic Distribution Mechanism'' means a mechanism generally accepted in the software development community for the electronic transfer of data.



1.5. ''Executable'' means Covered Code in any form other than Source Code.



1.6. ''Initial Developer'' means the individual or entity identified as the Initial Developer in the Source Code notice required by Exhibit A.



1.7. ''Larger Work'' means a work which combines Covered Code or portions thereof with code not governed by the terms of this License.



1.8. ''License'' means this document.



1.8.1. "Licensable" means having the right to grant, to the maximum extent possible, whether at the time of the initial grant or subsequently acquired, any and all of the rights conveyed herein.



1.9. ''Modifications'' means any addition to or deletion from the substance or structure of either the Original Code or any previous Modifications. When Covered Code is released as a series of files, a Modification is:



A. Any addition to or deletion from the contents of a file containing Original Code or previous Modifications.

B. Any new file that contains any part of the Original Code or previous Modifications.

 

1.10. ''Original Code'' means Source Code of computer software code which is described in the Source Code notice required by Exhibit A as Original Code, and which, at the time of its release under this License is not already Covered Code governed by this License.



1.10.1. "Patent Claims" means any patent claim(s), now owned or hereafter acquired, including without limitation,  method, process, and apparatus claims, in any patent Licensable by grantor.



1.11. ''Source Code'' means the preferred form of the Covered Code for making modifications to it, including all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, scripts used to control compilation and installation of an Executable, or source code differential comparisons against either the Original Code or another well known, available Covered Code of the Contributor's choice. The Source Code can be in a compressed or archival form, provided the appropriate decompression or de-archiving software is widely available for no charge.



1.12. "You'' (or "Your")  means an individual or a legal entity exercising rights under, and complying with all of the terms of, this License or a future version of this License issued under Section 6.1. For legal entities, "You'' includes any entity which controls, is controlled by, or is under common control with You. For purposes of this definition, "control'' means (a) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether by contract or otherwise, or (b) ownership of more than fifty percent (50%) of the outstanding shares or beneficial ownership of such entity.



2. Source Code License.



2.1. The Initial Developer Grant.



The Initial Developer hereby grants You a world-wide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license, subject to third party intellectual property claims:



(a)  under intellectual property rights (other than patent or trademark) Licensable by Initial Developer to use, reproduce, modify, display, perform, sublicense and distribute the Original Code (or portions thereof) with or without Modifications, and/or as part of a Larger Work; and



(b) under Patents Claims infringed by the making, using or selling of Original Code, to make, have made, use, practice, sell, and offer for sale, and/or otherwise dispose of the Original Code (or portions thereof).



(c) the licenses granted in this Section 2.1(a) and (b) are effective on the date Initial Developer first distributes Original Code under the terms of this License.



(d) Notwithstanding Section 2.1(b) above, no patent license is granted: 1) for code that You delete from the Original Code; 2) separate from the Original Code;  or 3) for infringements caused by: i) the modification of the Original Code or ii) the combination of the Original Code with other software or devices.



2.2. Contributor Grant.



Subject to third party intellectual property claims, each Contributor hereby grants You a world-wide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license

 

(a)  under intellectual property rights (other than patent or trademark) Licensable by Contributor, to use, reproduce, modify, display, perform, sublicense and distribute the Modifications created by such Contributor (or portions thereof) either on an unmodified basis, with other Modifications, as Covered Code and/or as part of a Larger Work; and



(b) under Patent Claims infringed by the making, using, or selling of  Modifications made by that Contributor either alone and/or in combination with its Contributor Version (or portions of such combination), to make, use, sell, offer for sale, have made, and/or otherwise dispose of: 1) Modifications made by that Contributor (or portions thereof); and 2) the combination of  Modifications made by that Contributor with its Contributor Version (or portions of such combination).



(c) the licenses granted in Sections 2.2(a) and 2.2(b) are effective on the date Contributor first makes Commercial Use of the Covered Code.



(d)    Notwithstanding Section 2.2(b) above, no patent license is granted: 1) for any code that Contributor has deleted from the Contributor Version; 2)  separate from the Contributor Version;  3)  for infringements caused by: i) third party modifications of Contributor Version or ii)  the combination of Modifications made by that Contributor with other software  (except as part of the Contributor Version) or other devices; or 4) under Patent Claims infringed by Covered Code in the absence of Modifications made by that Contributor.



3. Distribution Obligations.



3.1. Application of License.



The Modifications which You create or to which You contribute are governed by the terms of this License, including without limitation Section 2.2. The Source Code version of Covered Code may be distributed only under the terms of this License or a future version of this License released under Section 6.1, and You must include a copy of this License with every copy of the Source Code You distribute. You may not offer or impose any terms on any Source Code version that alters or restricts the applicable version of this License or the recipients' rights hereunder. However, You may include an additional document offering the additional rights described in Section 3.5.



3.2. Availability of Source Code.



Any Modification which You create or to which You contribute must be made available in Source Code form under the terms of this License either on the same media as an Executable version or via an accepted Electronic Distribution Mechanism to anyone to whom you made an Executable version available; and if made available via Electronic Distribution Mechanism, must remain available for at least twelve (12) months after the date it initially became available, or at least six (6) months after a subsequent version of that particular Modification has been made available to such recipients. You are responsible for ensuring that the Source Code version remains available even if the Electronic Distribution Mechanism is maintained by a third party.



3.3. Description of Modifications.

You must cause all Covered Code to which You contribute to contain a file documenting the changes You made to create that Covered Code and the date of any change. You must include a prominent statement that the Modification is derived, directly or indirectly, from Original Code provided by the Initial Developer and including the name of the Initial Developer in (a) the Source Code, and (b) in any notice in an Executable version or related documentation in which You describe the origin or ownership of the Covered Code.



3.4. Intellectual Property Matters



(a) Third Party Claims.



If Contributor has knowledge that a license under a third party's intellectual property rights is required to exercise the rights granted by such Contributor under Sections 2.1 or 2.2, Contributor must include a text file with the Source Code distribution titled "LEGAL'' which describes the claim and the party making the claim in sufficient detail that a recipient will know whom to contact. If Contributor obtains such knowledge after the Modification is made available as described in Section 3.2, Contributor shall promptly modify the LEGAL file in all copies Contributor makes available thereafter and shall take other steps (such as notifying appropriate mailing lists or newsgroups) reasonably calculated to inform those who received the Covered Code that new knowledge has been obtained.



(b) Contributor APIs.



If Contributor's Modifications include an application programming interface and Contributor has knowledge of patent licenses which are reasonably necessary to implement that API, Contributor must also include this information in the LEGAL file.

 



(c) Representations.



Contributor represents that, except as disclosed pursuant to Section 3.4(a) above, Contributor believes that Contributor's Modifications are Contributor's original creation(s) and/or Contributor has sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.



3.5. Required Notices.



You must duplicate the notice in Exhibit A in each file of the Source Code.  If it is not possible to put such notice in a particular Source Code file due to its structure, then You must include such notice in a location (such as a relevant directory) where a user would be likely to look for such a notice.  If You created one or more Modification(s) You may add your name as a Contributor to the notice described in Exhibit A.  You must also duplicate this License in any documentation for the Source Code where You describe recipients' rights or ownership rights relating to Covered Code.  You may choose to offer, and to charge a fee for, warranty, support, indemnity or liability obligations to one or more recipients of Covered Code. However, You may do so only on Your own behalf, and not on behalf of the Initial Developer or any Contributor. You must make it absolutely clear than any such warranty, support, indemnity or liability obligation is offered by You alone, and You hereby agree to indemnify the Initial Developer and every Contributor for any liability incurred by the Initial Developer or such Contributor as a result of warranty, support, indemnity or liability terms You offer.



3.6. Distribution of Executable Versions.



You may distribute Covered Code in Executable form only if the requirements of Section 3.1-3.5 have been met for that Covered Code, and if You include a notice stating that the Source Code version of the Covered Code is available under the terms of this License, including a description of how and where You have fulfilled the obligations of Section 3.2. The notice must be conspicuously included in any notice in an Executable version, related documentation or collateral in which You describe recipients' rights relating to the Covered Code. You may distribute the Executable version of Covered Code or ownership rights under a license of Your choice, which may contain terms different from this License, provided that You are in compliance with the terms of this License and that the license for the Executable version does not attempt to limit or alter the recipient's rights in the Source Code version from the rights set forth in this License. If You distribute the Executable version under a different license You must make it absolutely clear that any terms which differ from this License are offered by You alone, not by the Initial Developer or any Contributor. You hereby agree to indemnify the Initial Developer and every Contributor for any liability incurred by the Initial Developer or such Contributor as a result of any such terms You offer.



3.7. Larger Works.



You may create a Larger Work by combining Covered Code with other code not governed by the terms of this License and distribute the Larger Work as a single product. In such a case, You must make sure the requirements of this License are fulfilled for the Covered Code.



4. Inability to Comply Due to Statute or Regulation.



If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Covered Code due to statute, judicial order, or regulation then You must: (a) comply with the terms of this License to the maximum extent possible; and (b) describe the limitations and the code they affect. Such description must be included in the LEGAL file described in Section 3.4 and must be included with all distributions of the Source Code. Except to the extent prohibited by statute or regulation, such description must be sufficiently detailed for a recipient of ordinary skill to be able to understand it.



5. Application of this License.



This License applies to code to which the Initial Developer has attached the notice in Exhibit A and to related Covered Code.



6. Versions of the License.



6.1. New Versions.

Socialtext, Inc. (ìSocialtext'') may publish revised and/or new versions of the License from time to time. Each version will be given a distinguishing version number.

 

6.2. Effect of New Versions. 



Once Covered Code has been published under a particular version of the License, You may always continue to use it under the terms of that version. You may also choose to use such Covered Code under the terms of any subsequent version of the License published by Socialtext. No one other than Socialtext has the right to modify the terms applicable to Covered Code created under this License.



6.3. Derivative Works.



If You create or use a modified version of this License (which you may only do in order to apply it to code which is not already Covered Code governed by this License), You must (a) rename Your license so that the phrases ''Socialtext'', ìSTPL'' or any confusingly similar phrase do not appear in your license (except to note that your license differs from this License) and (b) otherwise make it clear that Your version of the license contains terms which differ from the Socialtext Public License. (Filling in the name of the Initial Developer, Original Code or Contributor in the notice described in Exhibit A shall not of themselves be deemed to be modifications of this License.)



7. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY.



COVERED CODE IS PROVIDED UNDER THIS LICENSE ON AN "AS IS'' BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES THAT THE COVERED CODE IS FREE OF DEFECTS, MERCHANTABLE, FIT FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NON-INFRINGING. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE COVERED CODE IS WITH YOU. SHOULD ANY COVERED CODE PROVE DEFECTIVE IN ANY RESPECT, YOU (NOT THE INITIAL DEVELOPER OR ANY OTHER CONTRIBUTOR) ASSUME THE COST OF ANY NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THIS LICENSE. NO USE OF ANY COVERED CODE IS AUTHORIZED HEREUNDER EXCEPT UNDER THIS DISCLAIMER.



8. TERMINATION.



8.1.  This License and the rights granted hereunder will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses to the Covered Code which are properly granted shall survive any termination of this License. Provisions which, by their nature, must remain in effect beyond the termination of this License shall survive.



8.2.  If You initiate litigation by asserting a patent infringement claim (excluding declatory judgment actions) against Initial Developer or a Contributor (the Initial Developer or Contributor against whom You file such action is referred to as "Participant")  alleging that:



(a)  such Participant's Contributor Version directly or indirectly infringes any patent, then any and all rights granted by such Participant to You under Sections 2.1 and/or 2.2 of this License shall, upon 60 days notice from Participant terminate prospectively, unless if within 60 days after receipt of notice You either: (i)  agree in writing to pay Participant a mutually agreeable reasonable royalty for Your past and future use of Modifications made by such Participant, or (ii) withdraw Your litigation claim with respect to the Contributor Version against such Participant.  If within 60 days of notice, a reasonable royalty and payment arrangement are not mutually agreed upon in writing by the parties or the litigation claim is not withdrawn, the rights granted by Participant to You under Sections 2.1 and/or 2.2 automatically terminate at the expiration of the 60 day notice period specified above.



(b)  any software, hardware, or device, other than such Participant's Contributor Version, directly or indirectly infringes any patent, then any rights granted to You by such Participant under Sections 2.1(b) and 2.2(b) are revoked effective as of the date You first made, used, sold, distributed, or had made, Modifications made by that Participant.



8.3.  If You assert a patent infringement claim against Participant alleging that such Participant's Contributor Version directly or indirectly infringes any patent where such claim is resolved (such as by license or settlement) prior to the initiation of patent infringement litigation, then the reasonable value of the licenses granted by such Participant under Sections 2.1 or 2.2 shall be taken into account in determining the amount or value of any payment or license.



8.4.  In the event of termination under Sections 8.1 or 8.2 above,  all end user license agreements (excluding distributors and resellers) which have been validly granted by You or any distributor hereunder prior to termination shall survive termination.



9. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.



UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AND UNDER NO LEGAL THEORY, WHETHER TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), CONTRACT, OR OTHERWISE, SHALL YOU, THE INITIAL DEVELOPER, ANY OTHER CONTRIBUTOR, OR ANY DISTRIBUTOR OF COVERED CODE, OR ANY SUPPLIER OF ANY OF SUCH PARTIES, BE LIABLE TO ANY PERSON FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY CHARACTER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES, EVEN IF SUCH PARTY SHALL HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY SHALL NOT APPLY TO LIABILITY FOR DEATH OR PERSONAL INJURY RESULTING FROM SUCH PARTY'S NEGLIGENCE TO THE EXTENT APPLICABLE LAW PROHIBITS SUCH LIMITATION. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THIS EXCLUSION AND LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.



10. U.S. GOVERNMENT END USERS.



The Covered Code is a ''commercial item,'' as that term is defined in 48 C.F.R. 2.101 (Oct. 1995), consisting of ''commercial computer software'' and ''commercial computer software documentation,'' as such terms are used in 48 C.F.R. 12.212 (Sept. 1995). Consistent with 48 C.F.R. 12.212 and 48 C.F.R. 227.7202-1 through 227.7202-4 (June 1995), all U.S. Government End Users acquire Covered Code with only those rights set forth herein.



11. MISCELLANEOUS.



This License represents the complete agreement concerning subject matter hereof. If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable. This License shall be governed by California law provisions (except to the extent applicable law, if any, provides otherwise), excluding its conflict-of-law provisions. With respect to disputes in which at least one party is a citizen of, or an entity chartered or registered to do business in the United States of America, any litigation relating to this License shall be subject to the jurisdiction of the Federal Courts of the Northern District of California, with venue lying in Santa Clara County, California, with the losing party responsible for costs, including without limitation, court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees and expenses. The application of the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded. Any law or regulation which provides that the language of a contract shall be construed against the drafter shall not apply to this License.



12. RESPONSIBILITY FOR CLAIMS.



As between Initial Developer and the Contributors, each party is responsible for claims and damages arising, directly or indirectly, out of its utilization of rights under this License and You agree to work with Initial Developer and Contributors to distribute such responsibility on an equitable basis. Nothing herein is intended or shall be deemed to constitute any admission of liability.



13. MULTIPLE-LICENSED CODE.



Initial Developer may designate portions of the Covered Code as Multiple-Licensed.  Multiple-Licensed means that the Initial Developer permits you to utilize portions of the Covered Code under Your choice of the STPL or the alternative licenses, if any, specified by the Initial Developer in the file described in Exhibit A.



EXHIBIT A -Socialtext Public License Version 2.0.



``The contents of this file are subject to the Socialtext Public License Version 2.0 (the "License"); you may not use this file except in compliance with the License. You may obtain a copy of the License at http://www.Socialtext.com/STPL/.



Software distributed under the License is distributed on an "AS IS" basis, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, either express or implied. See the License for the specific language governing rights and limitations under the License.



The Original Code is wiki software distributed by Socialtext.



The Initial Developer of the Original Code is Socialtext, Inc.. All portions of the code written by Socialtext are Copyright (C) Socialtext Inc. All Rights Reserved.



EXHIBIT B



Additional Terms applicable to the Socialtext Public License.



1. Effect.



These additional terms described in this Socialtext Public License ñ Additional Terms shall apply to the Covered Code under this License.



1.1  Attribution.   As a modest attribution to the Initial Developer, in the hope that its promotional value may help justify the time, money and effort invested in writing the Original Code, the Initial Developer may include in Part 2 of Exhibit B (ìExhibit B Notice Sectionî) a requirement that each time an Executable or a Larger Work is launched or run, a prominent display of the Initial Developer's attribution information must occur on the graphic user interface (which may include display on a splash screen), if any. Attribution information may only include a copyright notice, a brief phrase, graphic image and a URL (ìAttribution Informationî) and is subject to the Attribution Limits as defined below. For these purposes, prominent shall mean display for sufficient duration to give reasonable notice to the user of the identity of the Initial Developer and that if You include Attribution Information or similar information for other parties, You must ensure that the Attribution Information for the Initial Developer shall be no less prominent than such Attribution Information or similar information for the other party.  If the Executable does not launch or run a graphic user interface, this obligation shall not apply. In addition, You must include the Attribution Information at the beginning of each Source Code file. For greater certainty, the Initial Developer may choose to specify in the Exhibit B Notice Section that the above attribution requirement only applies to an Executable resulting from the Original Code or any Covered Code, but not a Larger Work. The intent is to provide for reasonably modest attribution, therefore the Initial Developer cannot require that You display, at any time, more than the following information as Attribution Information: (a) a copyright notice including the name of the Initial Developer; (b) a word or one phrase (not exceeding 10 words); (c) one digital image or graphic provided by the Initial Developer; and (d) a URL (collectively, the "Attribution Limits").



If no Exhibit B Notice Section exists, or no Attribution Information is set out in the Exhibit B Notice Section, then there are no requirements for You to display any Attribution Information of the Initial Developer.



You acknowledge that all trademarks, service marks and/or trade names contained within the Exhibit B Notice Section distributed with the Covered Code are the exclusive property of the Initial Contributor and may only be used with the permission of the Initial Contributor, or under  circumstances otherwise permitted by law or as expressly set out in this License



1.2  Network Use.  If the Covered Code as You received it is intended to interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version You received, such a user has the opportunity to request transmission to that user (whether through an Electronic Distribution Mechanism or otherwise) of the complete Source Code of the Covered Code, You must not remove that facility from the Contributor Version, and must offer an equivalent opportunity for all users interacting with the Contributor Version through a computer network to request immediate transmission by HTTP of the complete Source Code of the Contributor Version.  .



2. Exhibit B Notice Section.



Socialtext, Inc. ©   2003-2006; Powered by Socialtext, the leading commercial open source enterprise wiki. www.socialtext.com and the Socialtext logo.



The Socialtext logo is found at www.socialtext.com.




Socialtext Public License Version 2.0 (STPL)

1. Definitions.

1.0.1. "Commercial Use" means distribution or otherwise making the Covered Code available to a third party.

1.1. ''Contributor'' means each entity that creates or contributes to the creation of Modifications.

1.2. ''Contributor Version'' means the combination of the Original Code, prior Modifications used by a Contributor, and the Modifications made by that particular Contributor.

1.3. ''Covered Code'' means the Original Code or Modifications or the combination of the Original Code and Modifications, in each case including portions thereof.

1.4. ''Electronic Distribution Mechanism'' means a mechanism generally accepted in the software development community for the electronic transfer of data.

1.5. ''Executable'' means Covered Code in any form other than Source Code.

1.6. ''Initial Developer'' means the individual or entity identified as the Initial Developer in the Source Code notice required by Exhibit A.

1.7. ''Larger Work'' means a work which combines Covered Code or portions thereof with code not governed by the terms of this License.

1.8. ''License'' means this document.

1.8.1. "Licensable" means having the right to grant, to the maximum extent possible, whether at the time of the initial grant or subsequently acquired, any and all of the rights conveyed herein.

1.9. ''Modifications'' means any addition to or deletion from the substance or structure of either the Original Code or any previous Modifications. When Covered Code is released as a series of files, a Modification is:

A. Any addition to or deletion from the contents of a file containing Original Code or previous Modifications.
B. Any new file that contains any part of the Original Code or previous Modifications.
 
1.10. ''Original Code'' means Source Code of computer software code which is described in the Source Code notice required by Exhibit A as Original Code, and which, at the time of its release under this License is not already Covered Code governed by this License.

1.10.1. "Patent Claims" means any patent claim(s), now owned or hereafter acquired, including without limitation,  method, process, and apparatus claims, in any patent Licensable by grantor.

1.11. ''Source Code'' means the preferred form of the Covered Code for making modifications to it, including all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, scripts used to control compilation and installation of an Executable, or source code differential comparisons against either the Original Code or another well known, available Covered Code of the Contributor's choice. The Source Code can be in a compressed or archival form, provided the appropriate decompression or de-archiving software is widely available for no charge.

1.12. "You'' (or "Your")  means an individual or a legal entity exercising rights under, and complying with all of the terms of, this License or a future version of this License issued under Section 6.1. For legal entities, "You'' includes any entity which controls, is controlled by, or is under common control with You. For purposes of this definition, "control'' means (a) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether by contract or otherwise, or (b) ownership of more than fifty percent (50%) of the outstanding shares or beneficial ownership of such entity.

2. Source Code License.

2.1. The Initial Developer Grant.

The Initial Developer hereby grants You a world-wide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license, subject to third party intellectual property claims:

(a)  under intellectual property rights (other than patent or trademark) Licensable by Initial Developer to use, reproduce, modify, display, perform, sublicense and distribute the Original Code (or portions thereof) with or without Modifications, and/or as part of a Larger Work; and

(b) under Patents Claims infringed by the making, using or selling of Original Code, to make, have made, use, practice, sell, and offer for sale, and/or otherwise dispose of the Original Code (or portions thereof).

(c) the licenses granted in this Section 2.1(a) and (b) are effective on the date Initial Developer first distributes Original Code under the terms of this License.

(d) Notwithstanding Section 2.1(b) above, no patent license is granted: 1) for code that You delete from the Original Code; 2) separate from the Original Code;  or 3) for infringements caused by: i) the modification of the Original Code or ii) the combination of the Original Code with other software or devices.

2.2. Contributor Grant.

Subject to third party intellectual property claims, each Contributor hereby grants You a world-wide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license
 
(a)  under intellectual property rights (other than patent or trademark) Licensable by Contributor, to use, reproduce, modify, display, perform, sublicense and distribute the Modifications created by such Contributor (or portions thereof) either on an unmodified basis, with other Modifications, as Covered Code and/or as part of a Larger Work; and

(b) under Patent Claims infringed by the making, using, or selling of  Modifications made by that Contributor either alone and/or in combination with its Contributor Version (or portions of such combination), to make, use, sell, offer for sale, have made, and/or otherwise dispose of: 1) Modifications made by that Contributor (or portions thereof); and 2) the combination of  Modifications made by that Contributor with its Contributor Version (or portions of such combination).

(c) the licenses granted in Sections 2.2(a) and 2.2(b) are effective on the date Contributor first makes Commercial Use of the Covered Code.

(d)    Notwithstanding Section 2.2(b) above, no patent license is granted: 1) for any code that Contributor has deleted from the Contributor Version; 2)  separate from the Contributor Version;  3)  for infringements caused by: i) third party modifications of Contributor Version or ii)  the combination of Modifications made by that Contributor with other software  (except as part of the Contributor Version) or other devices; or 4) under Patent Claims infringed by Covered Code in the absence of Modifications made by that Contributor.

3. Distribution Obligations.

3.1. Application of License.

The Modifications which You create or to which You contribute are governed by the terms of this License, including without limitation Section 2.2. The Source Code version of Covered Code may be distributed only under the terms of this License or a future version of this License released under Section 6.1, and You must include a copy of this License with every copy of the Source Code You distribute. You may not offer or impose any terms on any Source Code version that alters or restricts the applicable version of this License or the recipients' rights hereunder. However, You may include an additional document offering the additional rights described in Section 3.5.

3.2. Availability of Source Code.

Any Modification which You create or to which You contribute must be made available in Source Code form under the terms of this License either on the same media as an Executable version or via an accepted Electronic Distribution Mechanism to anyone to whom you made an Executable version available; and if made available via Electronic Distribution Mechanism, must remain available for at least twelve (12) months after the date it initially became available, or at least six (6) months after a subsequent version of that particular Modification has been made available to such recipients. You are responsible for ensuring that the Source Code version remains available even if the Electronic Distribution Mechanism is maintained by a third party.

3.3. Description of Modifications.
You must cause all Covered Code to which You contribute to contain a file documenting the changes You made to create that Covered Code and the date of any change. You must include a prominent statement that the Modification is derived, directly or indirectly, from Original Code provided by the Initial Developer and including the name of the Initial Developer in (a) the Source Code, and (b) in any notice in an Executable version or related documentation in which You describe the origin or ownership of the Covered Code.

3.4. Intellectual Property Matters

(a) Third Party Claims.

If Contributor has knowledge that a license under a third party's intellectual property rights is required to exercise the rights granted by such Contributor under Sections 2.1 or 2.2, Contributor must include a text file with the Source Code distribution titled "LEGAL'' which describes the claim and the party making the claim in sufficient detail that a recipient will know whom to contact. If Contributor obtains such knowledge after the Modification is made available as described in Section 3.2, Contributor shall promptly modify the LEGAL file in all copies Contributor makes available thereafter and shall take other steps (such as notifying appropriate mailing lists or newsgroups) reasonably calculated to inform those who received the Covered Code that new knowledge has been obtained.

(b) Contributor APIs.

If Contributor's Modifications include an application programming interface and Contributor has knowledge of patent licenses which are reasonably necessary to implement that API, Contributor must also include this information in the LEGAL file.
 

(c) Representations.

Contributor represents that, except as disclosed pursuant to Section 3.4(a) above, Contributor believes that Contributor's Modifications are Contributor's original creation(s) and/or Contributor has sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.

3.5. Required Notices.

You must duplicate the notice in Exhibit A in each file of the Source Code.  If it is not possible to put such notice in a particular Source Code file due to its structure, then You must include such notice in a location (such as a relevant directory) where a user would be likely to look for such a notice.  If You created one or more Modification(s) You may add your name as a Contributor to the notice described in Exhibit A.  You must also duplicate this License in any documentation for the Source Code where You describe recipients' rights or ownership rights relating to Covered Code.  You may choose to offer, and to charge a fee for, warranty, support, indemnity or liability obligations to one or more recipients of Covered Code. However, You may do so only on Your own behalf, and not on behalf of the Initial Developer or any Contributor. You must make it absolutely clear than any such warranty, support, indemnity or liability obligation is offered by You alone, and You hereby agree to indemnify the Initial Developer and every Contributor for any liability incurred by the Initial Developer or such Contributor as a result of warranty, support, indemnity or liability terms You offer.

3.6. Distribution of Executable Versions.

You may distribute Covered Code in Executable form only if the requirements of Section 3.1-3.5 have been met for that Covered Code, and if You include a notice stating that the Source Code version of the Covered Code is available under the terms of this License, including a description of how and where You have fulfilled the obligations of Section 3.2. The notice must be conspicuously included in any notice in an Executable version, related documentation or collateral in which You describe recipients' rights relating to the Covered Code. You may distribute the Executable version of Covered Code or ownership rights under a license of Your choice, which may contain terms different from this License, provided that You are in compliance with the terms of this License and that the license for the Executable version does not attempt to limit or alter the recipient's rights in the Source Code version from the rights set forth in this License. If You distribute the Executable version under a different license You must make it absolutely clear that any terms which differ from this License are offered by You alone, not by the Initial Developer or any Contributor. You hereby agree to indemnify the Initial Developer and every Contributor for any liability incurred by the Initial Developer or such Contributor as a result of any such terms You offer.

3.7. Larger Works.

You may create a Larger Work by combining Covered Code with other code not governed by the terms of this License and distribute the Larger Work as a single product. In such a case, You must make sure the requirements of this License are fulfilled for the Covered Code.

4. Inability to Comply Due to Statute or Regulation.

If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Covered Code due to statute, judicial order, or regulation then You must: (a) comply with the terms of this License to the maximum extent possible; and (b) describe the limitations and the code they affect. Such description must be included in the LEGAL file described in Section 3.4 and must be included with all distributions of the Source Code. Except to the extent prohibited by statute or regulation, such description must be sufficiently detailed for a recipient of ordinary skill to be able to understand it.

5. Application of this License.

This License applies to code to which the Initial Developer has attached the notice in Exhibit A and to related Covered Code.

6. Versions of the License.

6.1. New Versions.
Socialtext, Inc. (�Socialtext'') may publish revised and/or new versions of the License from time to time. Each version will be given a distinguishing version number.
 
6.2. Effect of New Versions.  

Once Covered Code has been published under a particular version of the License, You may always continue to use it under the terms of that version. You may also choose to use such Covered Code under the terms of any subsequent version of the License published by Socialtext. No one other than Socialtext has the right to modify the terms applicable to Covered Code created under this License.

6.3. Derivative Works.

If You create or use a modified version of this License (which you may only do in order to apply it to code which is not already Covered Code governed by this License), You must (a) rename Your license so that the phrases ''Socialtext'', �STPL'' or any confusingly similar phrase do not appear in your license (except to note that your license differs from this License) and (b) otherwise make it clear that Your version of the license contains terms which differ from the Socialtext Public License. (Filling in the name of the Initial Developer, Original Code or Contributor in the notice described in Exhibit A shall not of themselves be deemed to be modifications of this License.)

7. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY.

COVERED CODE IS PROVIDED UNDER THIS LICENSE ON AN "AS IS'' BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES THAT THE COVERED CODE IS FREE OF DEFECTS, MERCHANTABLE, FIT FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NON-INFRINGING. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE COVERED CODE IS WITH YOU. SHOULD ANY COVERED CODE PROVE DEFECTIVE IN ANY RESPECT, YOU (NOT THE INITIAL DEVELOPER OR ANY OTHER CONTRIBUTOR) ASSUME THE COST OF ANY NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THIS LICENSE. NO USE OF ANY COVERED CODE IS AUTHORIZED HEREUNDER EXCEPT UNDER THIS DISCLAIMER.

8. TERMINATION.

8.1.  This License and the rights granted hereunder will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses to the Covered Code which are properly granted shall survive any termination of this License. Provisions which, by their nature, must remain in effect beyond the termination of this License shall survive.

8.2.  If You initiate litigation by asserting a patent infringement claim (excluding declatory judgment actions) against Initial Developer or a Contributor (the Initial Developer or Contributor against whom You file such action is referred to as "Participant")  alleging that:

(a)  such Participant's Contributor Version directly or indirectly infringes any patent, then any and all rights granted by such Participant to You under Sections 2.1 and/or 2.2 of this License shall, upon 60 days notice from Participant terminate prospectively, unless if within 60 days after receipt of notice You either: (i)  agree in writing to pay Participant a mutually agreeable reasonable royalty for Your past and future use of Modifications made by such Participant, or (ii) withdraw Your litigation claim with respect to the Contributor Version against such Participant.  If within 60 days of notice, a reasonable royalty and payment arrangement are not mutually agreed upon in writing by the parties or the litigation claim is not withdrawn, the rights granted by Participant to You under Sections 2.1 and/or 2.2 automatically terminate at the expiration of the 60 day notice period specified above.

(b)  any software, hardware, or device, other than such Participant's Contributor Version, directly or indirectly infringes any patent, then any rights granted to You by such Participant under Sections 2.1(b) and 2.2(b) are revoked effective as of the date You first made, used, sold, distributed, or had made, Modifications made by that Participant.

8.3.  If You assert a patent infringement claim against Participant alleging that such Participant's Contributor Version directly or indirectly infringes any patent where such claim is resolved (such as by license or settlement) prior to the initiation of patent infringement litigation, then the reasonable value of the licenses granted by such Participant under Sections 2.1 or 2.2 shall be taken into account in determining the amount or value of any payment or license.

8.4.  In the event of termination under Sections 8.1 or 8.2 above,  all end user license agreements (excluding distributors and resellers) which have been validly granted by You or any distributor hereunder prior to termination shall survive termination.

9. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AND UNDER NO LEGAL THEORY, WHETHER TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), CONTRACT, OR OTHERWISE, SHALL YOU, THE INITIAL DEVELOPER, ANY OTHER CONTRIBUTOR, OR ANY DISTRIBUTOR OF COVERED CODE, OR ANY SUPPLIER OF ANY OF SUCH PARTIES, BE LIABLE TO ANY PERSON FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY CHARACTER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES, EVEN IF SUCH PARTY SHALL HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY SHALL NOT APPLY TO LIABILITY FOR DEATH OR PERSONAL INJURY RESULTING FROM SUCH PARTY'S NEGLIGENCE TO THE EXTENT APPLICABLE LAW PROHIBITS SUCH LIMITATION. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THIS EXCLUSION AND LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

10. U.S. GOVERNMENT END USERS.

The Covered Code is a ''commercial item,'' as that term is defined in 48 C.F.R. 2.101 (Oct. 1995), consisting of ''commercial computer software'' and ''commercial computer software documentation,'' as such terms are used in 48 C.F.R. 12.212 (Sept. 1995). Consistent with 48 C.F.R. 12.212 and 48 C.F.R. 227.7202-1 through 227.7202-4 (June 1995), all U.S. Government End Users acquire Covered Code with only those rights set forth herein.

11. MISCELLANEOUS.

This License represents the complete agreement concerning subject matter hereof. If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable. This License shall be governed by California law provisions (except to the extent applicable law, if any, provides otherwise), excluding its conflict-of-law provisions. With respect to disputes in which at least one party is a citizen of, or an entity chartered or registered to do business in the United States of America, any litigation relating to this License shall be subject to the jurisdiction of the Federal Courts of the Northern District of California, with venue lying in Santa Clara County, California, with the losing party responsible for costs, including without limitation, court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees and expenses. The application of the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded. Any law or regulation which provides that the language of a contract shall be construed against the drafter shall not apply to this License.

12. RESPONSIBILITY FOR CLAIMS.

As between Initial Developer and the Contributors, each party is responsible for claims and damages arising, directly or indirectly, out of its utilization of rights under this License and You agree to work with Initial Developer and Contributors to distribute such responsibility on an equitable basis. Nothing herein is intended or shall be deemed to constitute any admission of liability.

13. MULTIPLE-LICENSED CODE.

Initial Developer may designate portions of the Covered Code as Multiple-Licensed.  Multiple-Licensed means that the Initial Developer permits you to utilize portions of the Covered Code under Your choice of the STPL or the alternative licenses, if any, specified by the Initial Developer in the file described in Exhibit A.

EXHIBIT A -Socialtext Public License Version 2.0.

``The contents of this file are subject to the Socialtext Public License Version 2.0 (the "License"); you may not use this file except in compliance with the License. You may obtain a copy of the License at http://www.Socialtext.com/STPL/.

Software distributed under the License is distributed on an "AS IS" basis, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, either express or implied. See the License for the specific language governing rights and limitations under the License.

The Original Code is wiki software distributed by Socialtext.

The Initial Developer of the Original Code is Socialtext, Inc.. All portions of the code written by Socialtext are Copyright (C) Socialtext Inc. All Rights Reserved.

EXHIBIT B

Additional Terms applicable to the Socialtext Public License.

1. Effect.

These additional terms described in this Socialtext Public License � Additional Terms shall apply to the Covered Code under this License.

1.1  Attribution.   As a modest attribution to the Initial Developer, in the hope that its promotional value may help justify the time, money and effort invested in writing the Original Code, the Initial Developer may include in Part 2 of Exhibit B (�Exhibit B Notice Section�) a requirement that each time an Executable or a Larger Work is launched or run, a prominent display of the Initial Developer's attribution information must occur on the graphic user interface (which may include display on a splash screen), if any. Attribution information may only include a copyright notice, a brief phrase, graphic image and a URL (�Attribution Information�) and is subject to the Attribution Limits as defined below. For these purposes, prominent shall mean display for sufficient duration to give reasonable notice to the user of the identity of the Initial Developer and that if You include Attribution Information or similar information for other parties, You must ensure that the Attribution Information for the Initial Developer shall be no less prominent than such Attribution Information or similar information for the other party.  If the Executable does not launch or run a graphic user interface, this obligation shall not apply. In addition, You must include the Attribution Information at the beginning of each Source Code file. For greater certainty, the Initial Developer may choose to specify in the Exhibit B Notice Section that the above attribution requirement only applies to an Executable resulting from the Original Code or any Covered Code, but not a Larger Work. The intent is to provide for reasonably modest attribution, therefore the Initial Developer cannot require that You display, at any time, more than the following information as Attribution Information: (a) a copyright notice including the name of the Initial Developer; (b) a word or one phrase (not exceeding 10 words); (c) one digital image or graphic provided by the Initial Developer; and (d) a URL (collectively, the "Attribution Limits").

If no Exhibit B Notice Section exists, or no Attribution Information is set out in the Exhibit B Notice Section, then there are no requirements for You to display any Attribution Information of the Initial Developer.

You acknowledge that all trademarks, service marks and/or trade names contained within the Exhibit B Notice Section distributed with the Covered Code are the exclusive property of the Initial Contributor and may only be used with the permission of the Initial Contributor, or under  circumstances otherwise permitted by law or as expressly set out in this License

1.2  Network Use.  If the Covered Code as You received it is intended to interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version You received, such a user has the opportunity to request transmission to that user (whether through an Electronic Distribution Mechanism or otherwise) of the complete Source Code of the Covered Code, You must not remove that facility from the Contributor Version, and must offer an equivalent opportunity for all users interacting with the Contributor Version through a computer network to request immediate transmission by HTTP of the complete Source Code of the Contributor Version.  .

2. Exhibit B Notice Section.

Socialtext, Inc. �   2003-2006; Powered by Socialtext, the leading commercial open source enterprise wiki. www.socialtext.com and the Socialtext logo.

The Socialtext logo is found at www.socialtext.com.
 

[Matthew Flaschen]

Ross Mayfield wrote:
> The Socialtext Public License ("STPL") license is based on the Mozilla
> Public License with all of the modifications in Exhibit B.   Exhibit B
> include an attribution provision based on the Adaptive Public License

This provision is the same as the MSPL's, so my previous comments mostly
still apply.  To summarize: All these large, equal-prominence logos
could easily become burdensome when combined, not all GUIs support
arbitrary logos, and it is difficult to say what is "sufficient
duration".  However, unlike the MSPL, STPL's Exhibit B does not require
a link, or that the attribution is on every screen, which is good.

 and a
> network use provision based on the Affero license. Socialtext believes that
> the application software has special needs as compared to operating systems
> because of the application software can be used anonymously in large
> distributions

Most open source software is actually used in this way.  Can you tell me
who made the file command, or wrote cdrom.c ?  Probably not, but both of
these are essential parts of (large) GNU/Linux distros.

> None of the approved OSI
> approved licenses include both a network use provision and an attribution
> provision. We have limited the new provisions to those which are either the
> same or very close to provisions from existing licenses (see above).

Your network use clause is from Affero, which is not OSI-approved.
However, the only problem I see with this clause is that it requires
"immediate transmission by HTTP", which to me is a violation of OSD #10
.  I think "immediate transmission, over the network, " is much better.

However, SocialText (the program itself) does not seem to have any
provision for providing source to users, so the clause is currently
toothless.  If you use this license, I assume you'll want every version
you release to have this feature.

Matthew Flaschen

[Lasse R.H. Nielsen]

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:39:01 +0100, Ross Mayfield  
<ross.mayfield@...> wrote:

Only commenting on the "Network Use" part.

> 1.2  Network Use.  If the Covered Code as You received it is intended to
> interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version You
> received, such a user has the opportunity to request transmission to that
> user (whether through an Electronic Distribution Mechanism or otherwise)  
> of the complete Source Code of the Covered Code, You must not remove that
> facility from the Contributor Version, and must offer an equivalent
> opportunity for all users interacting with the Contributor Version  
> through a computer network to request immediate transmission by HTTP of  
> the complete Source Code of the Contributor Version.

You might want to define "facility" too. It's not clear whether it is the
functionality of requesting download of source, or the concrete covered
implementation of it, that must not be removed. If it's the former, then
"must not remove" is irrelevant, as the next part of the sentence says that
it must exist anyway. If it's the latter, it is a problem.

Consider the case where you have a complicated network application covered
by this lincense. I find that at the heart of that application is a very
efficient connection queue implementatation (or something similar  
low-level)
and I want to use *just* that for my own network application, which will
be placed under the same lincese.

This license then prevents me from omitting the implemented facility to
request source from my program, even though I have another way of providing
source.

Generally, a "must not remove" requirement on code is a bad idea, so I'm
hoping it's a "must provide functionality" requirement.


Also consider the case where I find that the covered code contains a very
efficient implementation of a MultiMap, or similar generic data structure.
I want to use that in a *non*-networked, off-line, application. This is not
possible, as there is no way for the non-networked application to offer
source code download, though that might be leviated by distributing the
source code with the application. Ofcourse, that would be the "FILE"  
protocol,
not HTTP :) The HTTP requirement has already been commented on.

/L
--
Lasse R. Nielsen - atwork@...
  'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine'
  Reproduction of this message, or parts thereof, is allowed if proper  
attribution is given.

[Matthew Flaschen]

Lasse Reichstein Nielsen wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:39:01 +0100, Ross Mayfield
> <ross.mayfield@...> wrote:

> Also consider the case where I find that the covered code contains a very
> efficient implementation of a MultiMap, or similar generic data structure.
> I want to use that in a *non*-networked, off-line, application.

I think that's covered by the clause "all users interacting with the
Contributor Version through a computer network".  Since no users are
"interacting [...] through a computer network" the off-line version
should be fine without the source feature.

Matthew Flaschen

[Andrew C. Oliver-2]

That caught my eye as well.

I'd say it actually violates OSD#10 in that it requires the "covered
code" to provide this functionality and is technologically dependent.  
Larry Rosen gave a history of the clause in the previous discussion and
it was
originally prompted by click-through licenses.  I would suggest that
this is substantively similar and I question
whether it really adds much these days.  Google/email pretty much serve
the same purpose.  Moreover just
requiring the license be included in distibutions with notification of
where/how the user can request the source code
can serve this purpose much more fault tolerantly and securely.  If the
technical methods were used then DNS
or other means might forward the request to a spammer who domain snipes
and email has provisions for
redelivery.

Moreover, the clause doesn't assist lead generation for the source
company (assuming intent) as it requires the
mechanism not the destination.

-Andy

Lasse Reichstein Nielsen wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:39:01 +0100, Ross Mayfield
> <ross.mayfield@...> wrote:
>
> Only commenting on the "Network Use" part.
>
>> 1.2  Network Use.  If the Covered Code as You received it is intended to
>> interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version
>> You
>> received, such a user has the opportunity to request transmission to
>> that
>> user (whether through an Electronic Distribution Mechanism or
>> otherwise) of the complete Source Code of the Covered Code, You must
>> not remove that
>> facility from the Contributor Version, and must offer an equivalent
>> opportunity for all users interacting with the Contributor Version
>> through a computer network to request immediate transmission by HTTP
>> of the complete Source Code of the Contributor Version.
>
> You might want to define "facility" too. It's not clear whether it is the
> functionality of requesting download of source, or the concrete covered
> implementation of it, that must not be removed. If it's the former, then
> "must not remove" is irrelevant, as the next part of the sentence says
> that
> it must exist anyway. If it's the latter, it is a problem.
>
> Consider the case where you have a complicated network application
> covered
> by this lincense. I find that at the heart of that application is a very
> efficient connection queue implementatation (or something similar
> low-level)
> and I want to use *just* that for my own network application, which will
> be placed under the same lincese.
>
> This license then prevents me from omitting the implemented facility to
> request source from my program, even though I have another way of
> providing
> source.
>
> Generally, a "must not remove" requirement on code is a bad idea, so I'm
> hoping it's a "must provide functionality" requirement.
>
>
> Also consider the case where I find that the covered code contains a very
> efficient implementation of a MultiMap, or similar generic data
> structure.
> I want to use that in a *non*-networked, off-line, application. This
> is not
> possible, as there is no way for the non-networked application to offer
> source code download, though that might be leviated by distributing the
> source code with the application. Ofcourse, that would be the "FILE"
> protocol,
> not HTTP :) The HTTP requirement has already been commented on.
>
> /L
> --Lasse R. Nielsen - atwork@...
>  'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine'
>  Reproduction of this message, or parts thereof, is allowed if proper
> attribution is given.

--
No PST Files Ever Again
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
Email, Calendaring, ease of configuration/administration
http://buni.org

[Matthew Flaschen]

Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> That caught my eye as well.
>
> I'd say it actually violates OSD#10 in that it requires the "covered
> code" to provide this functionality and is technologically dependent.

I don't think there would be an OSD #10 problems if HTTP, and possibly
the unnecessary "You must not remove that facility from the Contributor
Version" were removed.  All network apps should be able to implement
this, even if it is just a link to a source zip.

> Larry Rosen gave a history of the clause in the previous discussion and
> it was originally prompted by click-through licenses.

Can you give us some pointers to this discussion?

  I would suggest that this is substantively similar and I question
> whether it really adds much these days.  Google/email pretty much serve
> the same purpose.

What purpose?  How does that handle private modifications in an ASP
scenario?

  Moreover just requiring the license be included in distibutions with
notification of
> where/how the user can request the source code
> can serve this purpose much more fault tolerantly and securely.

No, that's not right.  They might never distribute and users wouldn't be
able to get the (potentially modified) code the server is actually
using.  The whole point of Affero (and I assume STPL) is to remedy this
problem/issue.

  If the technical methods were used then DNS
> or other means might forward the request to a spammer who domain snipes
> and email has provisions for redelivery.

I think you may be missing the point.  See
http://www.affero.org/oagf.html .  The reuser doesn't have to (indeed
should NOT) link to the original source.  They can use files on their
own server and whatever delivery mechanism they want, including HTTPS,
which should resolve most forgery issues.

> Moreover, the clause doesn't assist lead generation for the source
> company (assuming intent) as it requires the
> mechanism not the destination.

It's about preventing reusers from benefiting from hidden changes.  If
nothing else, the source company benefits by having the ability to
incorporate otherwise hidden modifications into their software.

Matthew Flaschen

[Andrew C. Oliver-2]

Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>  
> I don't think there would be an OSD #10 problems if HTTP, and possibly
> the unnecessary "You must not remove that facility from the Contributor
> Version" were removed.  All network apps should be able to implement
> this, even if it is just a link to a source zip.
>
>  
But it said the "covered code" what if I want to re-purpose part of it
as a non-network app..
It does not make provision for a non-network app.
>> Larry Rosen gave a history of the clause in the previous discussion and
>> it was originally prompted by click-through licenses.
>>    
>
> Can you give us some pointers to this discussion?
>
>  
http://www.nabble.com/Re:--Fwd:-FW:-For-Approval:-Generic-Attribution-Provision--t2917209i80.html

"OSD #10 was written in response to something entirely different."

>   I would suggest that this is substantively similar and I question
>  
>> whether it really adds much these days.  Google/email pretty much serve
>> the same purpose.
>>    
>
> What purpose?  How does that handle private modifications in an ASP
> scenario?
>
>   Moreover just requiring the license be included in distibutions with
> notification of
>  

You can email someone to get the source :-)

>> where/how the user can request the source code
>> can serve this purpose much more fault tolerantly and securely.
>>    
>
> No, that's not right.  They might never distribute and users wouldn't be
> able to get the (potentially modified) code the server is actually
> using.  The whole point of Affero (and I assume STPL) is to remedy this
> problem/issue.
>
>  

Ahh.  I did miss the point.

>> Moreover, the clause doesn't assist lead generation for the source
>> company (assuming intent) as it requires the
>> mechanism not the destination.
>>    
>
> It's about preventing reusers from benefiting from hidden changes.  If
> nothing else, the source company benefits by having the ability to
> incorporate otherwise hidden modifications into their software.
>
>  

thanks for clarifying.
> Matthew Flaschen
>  


--
No PST Files Ever Again
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
Email, Calendaring, ease of configuration/administration
http://buni.org

[Matthew Flaschen]

Andrew C. Oliver wrote:

> Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>   I don't think there would be an OSD #10 problems if HTTP, and possibly
>> the unnecessary "You must not remove that facility from the Contributor
>> Version" were removed.  All network apps should be able to implement
>> this, even if it is just a link to a source zip.
>>
>>  
> But it said the "covered code" what if I want to re-purpose part of it
> as a non-network app..
> It does not make provision for a non-network app.

Yes, it does.  I already described this in a previous email.  It says
source only has to be offered to "all users interacting with the
Contributor Version through a computer network".  If there aren't any,
then no source has to be offered.

>>> Larry Rosen gave a history of the clause in the previous discussion and
>>> it was originally prompted by click-through licenses.
>>>    
>>
>> Can you give us some pointers to this discussion?

Okay, I remember that.  I thought you were referring to Affero-type
licenses specifically.

>>   I would suggest that this is substantively similar and I question
>>  
>>> whether it really adds much these days.  Google/email pretty much serve
>>> the same purpose.
>>>    
>>
>> What purpose?  How does that handle private modifications in an ASP
>> scenario?
>>
>>   Moreover just requiring the license be included in distibutions with
>> notification of
>>  
> You can email someone to get the source :-)

Yes, but there's no guarantee it's the same source a particular service
is using.

> thanks for clarifying.

Sure.  You seem to use versionless LGPL for some code, so you probably
want to look at the GPLv3 draft (http://gplv3.fsf.org/draft), which
optionally allows:

"terms that require, if a modified version of the material they cover is
a work intended to interact with users through a computer network, that
those users be able to obtain copies of the Corresponding Source of the
work through the same network session; or"

This is designed for compatibility with Affero GPL, which was
specifically authorized by the FSF.  STPL would still certainly be
GPL-incompatible because MPL is (and the splash screen requirement sure
wouldn't help).  FYI, LGPLv3 is going to expressed as GPLv3+permissions

Matthew Flaschen

[Andrew C. Oliver-2]

Naw.  We have no ASP play so we consider their forks to be potential
service revenue and
hope to control our distribution by distributing often rather than
restricting distribution.

-Andy

> Sure.  You seem to use versionless LGPL for some code, so you probably
> want to look at the GPLv3 draft (http://gplv3.fsf.org/draft), which
> optionally allows:
>
> "terms that require, if a modified version of the material they cover is
> a work intended to interact with users through a computer network, that
> those users be able to obtain copies of the Corresponding Source of the
> work through the same network session; or"
>
> This is designed for compatibility with Affero GPL, which was
> specifically authorized by the FSF.  STPL would still certainly be
> GPL-incompatible because MPL is (and the splash screen requirement sure
> wouldn't help).  FYI, LGPLv3 is going to expressed as GPLv3+permissions
>
> Matthew Flaschen
>  

--
No PST Files Ever Again
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
Email, Calendaring, ease of configuration/administration
http://buni.org

[Ken Arromdee]

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
> > But it said the "covered code" what if I want to re-purpose part of it
> > as a non-network app..
> > It does not make provision for a non-network app.
>
> Yes, it does.  I already described this in a previous email.  It says
> source only has to be offered to "all users interacting with the
> Contributor Version through a computer network".  If there aren't any,
> then no source has to be offered.

What if you want to repurpose it in, say, code which runs at a bank and sends
information to an ATM?  The ATM and bank computer are part of a computer
network.  Must you provide a way to send the source to the ATM?

[Matthew Flaschen]

Ken Arromdee wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
>>> But it said the "covered code" what if I want to re-purpose part of it
>>> as a non-network app..
>>> It does not make provision for a non-network app.
>> Yes, it does.  I already described this in a previous email.  It says
>> source only has to be offered to "all users interacting with the
>> Contributor Version through a computer network".  If there aren't any,
>> then no source has to be offered.
>
> What if you want to repurpose it in, say, code which runs at a bank and sends
> information to an ATM?  The ATM and bank computer are part of a computer
> network.  Must you provide a way to send the source to the ATM?

That's a different, but interesting issue.  IANAL, but I think arguably,
with an ATM, the user's not interacting with the "Covered Code", but
rather with the ATM software, which in turn interacts with Covered Code
(likely over a well-defined protocol that is independent of the Covered
Code).  In other words, there is a thick client in between the Covered
Code and user.  I think the clause is only intended to apply when the
user is interacting with the Covered Code over the network as directly
as possible (e.g with only a dumb client in between).  That said, I
could easily see this becoming controversial.  It would still be
possible to transmit the source to the ATM (which must have some sort of
maintenance port), but it would obviously be extremely inconvenient (and
HTTP in particular probably isn't feasible).

Matthew Flaschen

[Lasse R.H. Nielsen]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 01:50:18 +0100, Matthew Flaschen  
<matthew.flaschen@...> wrote:

> That's a different, but interesting issue.  IANAL, but I think arguably,
> with an ATM, the user's not interacting with the "Covered Code", but
> rather with the ATM software, which in turn interacts with Covered Code
> (likely over a well-defined protocol that is independent of the Covered
> Code).

But in the "ASP" case, the user arguably interacts with the browser, which
in turn interacts with the web server (over a well-defined protocol  
independent
of the Covered Code: HTTP), which interacts with the covered ASP code.

> In other words, there is a thick client in between the Covered
> Code and user.

I would say that a browser is a thicker client than an ATM. After all, on  
an
ATM, all significant computations are certain to be done on the server. A
browser can do quite a lot of computation locally using JavaScript.

> I think the clause is only intended to apply when the
> user is interacting with the Covered Code over the network as directly
> as possible (e.g with only a dumb client in between).

In that case, the license should define how to delimit dumb/smart clients.
It's certainly not something I would expect consensus about.
And while we are at it, "interact with" isn't very clear either.

Perhaps the Covered Code is used in a service that generates pages and
prints them on a printer at the server end. The user never sees the output,
but he interacts with it as directly as possible (upload document, request
printing).

Perhaps the Covered Code is used in a mailing list server. It interacts
with people over a network. It could easily be set up to send the code
too, if asked, but that would not be HTTP.

> That said, I could easily see this becoming controversial.  It would  
> still be
> possible to transmit the source to the ATM (which must have some sort of
> maintenance port), but it would obviously be extremely inconvenient (and
> HTTP in particular probably isn't feasible).

... and even if it is possible, the user won't be able to receive the  
source,
even if the ATM client can request it. I.e., the requirement on making
the source available to the user is actually technology dependent - it
requires a way to make the source portable.

The ATM example is actually a good one with network connection and a gui,  
but
with other limits on what the client can do.

I can think of ~4 types of examples that should all be cosidered. In each  
case,
the usage of the Covered Code can cosist of as litte as a single  
class/function/whatever:

- network and gui: e.g., ATM connecting to server and server using Covered  
Code.
- network, no gui: e.g., Server providing services only through Web  
Service-interface.
- no network, gui: e.g., Stand-alone application.
- no nothing: e.g., kernel driver (e.g., HD driver). Must be able to  
operate headless and isolated.

STPL dodges the non-network examples by only requireing functionality if  
there can be networked
users. The networked ones require a clearer definition of "interact with".


I'm also slightly worried about the text "If the Covered Code as You  
received it is intended to
interact with users through a computer network ...". A licens that  
requires me to deduce the
intent of the upstream provider is an argument waiting to happen. Could I  
distribute to myself
and claim another intent for the next step? Could I split the code in two,  
so that neither
is complete and usable, and claim that neither is intended to interact  
with users through
a computer network (since clearly, it's not even able to)?

/L
--
Lasse R. Nielsen - atwork@...
  'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine'
  Reproduction of this message, or parts thereof, is allowed if proper  
attribution is given.

[Matthew Flaschen]

Lasse Reichstein Nielsen wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 01:50:18 +0100, Matthew Flaschen
> <matthew.flaschen@...> wrote:
>
>> That's a different, but interesting issue.  IANAL, but I think arguably,
>> with an ATM, the user's not interacting with the "Covered Code", but
>> rather with the ATM software, which in turn interacts with Covered Code
>> (likely over a well-defined protocol that is independent of the Covered
>> Code).
>
> But in the "ASP" case, the user arguably interacts with the browser, which
> in turn interacts with the web server (over a well-defined protocol
> independent
> of the Covered Code: HTTP), which interacts with the covered ASP code.

It's true that HTTP is used, but the real effective protocol is layered
on top.  For instance, it could be:

1. Send login form over HTTP.
2. Send filled out form back over HTTPS.
3. Send menu over HTTP.
4. Request page of user's choice by HTTP, with URL specified by menu.

etc.

It would be impossible to change the interface without changing the
server code.  Similarly, it would be very difficult to keep the same
interface while changing the server code.

>> In other words, there is a thick client in between the Covered
>> Code and user.
>
> I would say that a browser is a thicker client than an ATM. After all,
> on an
> ATM, all significant computations are certain to be done on the server.

I guess what I meant was that in a "thin client", the server specifies
the interface.  There may be slight variation because of browsers, but
this is unintentional.

With a thick client, the client specifies the interface and only pure
data is exchanged (obviously the reality may be in between).  This fits
my understanding of ATMs. I think only relatively simple data is
exchanged over the network, and the interface is governed by client
code, which can be changed without altering the server.

I would only consider the user to be directly interacting in this "thin
client" case.

> In that case, the license should define how to delimit dumb/smart clients.
> It's certainly not something I would expect consensus about.
> And while we are at it, "interact with" isn't very clear either.

I agree.  There are definitely perils to this clause, which I'm
beginning to recognize.

>
> Perhaps the Covered Code is used in a service that generates pages and
> prints them on a printer at the server end. The user never sees the output,
> but he interacts with it as directly as possible (upload document, request
> printing).

I don't think this is "interaction", but I agree it's uncertain.

> Perhaps the Covered Code is used in a mailing list server. It interacts
> with people over a network. It could easily be set up to send the code
> too, if asked, but that would not be HTTP.

Right.  As I said before, HTTP should unquestionably be removed (and I
don't think anyone would object to that).

>
>> That said, I could easily see this becoming controversial.  It would
>> still be
>> possible to transmit the source to the ATM (which must have some sort of
>> maintenance port), but it would obviously be extremely inconvenient (and
>> HTTP in particular probably isn't feasible).
>
> ... and even if it is possible, the user won't be able to receive the
> source,
> even if the ATM client can request it.

Well, they may be able to, if the ATM lets regular users access it over
some serial port or such.  Like I said, this is really inconvenient.

 I.e., the requirement on making
> the source available to the user is actually technology dependent - it
> requires a way to make the source portable.

True.  Depending on how large the program is, even if it's possible to
transmit source, it could cripple slow connections..

> - network, no gui: e.g., Server providing services only through Web
> Service-interface.

This would be what I called a thick client, and hopefully would not be
covered (since the interface is entirely created by the client).

> - no nothing: e.g., kernel driver (e.g., HD driver). Must be able to
> operate headless and isolated.

Strictly interpreted, even this could be considered use over a network,
if a network user uses some service that indirectly requires the driver.

> I'm also slightly worried about the text "If the Covered Code as You
> received it is intended to
> interact with users through a computer network ...". A licens that
> requires me to deduce the
> intent of the upstream provider is an argument waiting to happen.

It should probably just say, "interacts with users" instead of "is
intended to interact with users"

> Could I split the code in
> two, so that neither
> is complete and usable, and claim that neither is intended to interact
> with users through
> a computer network (since clearly, it's not even able to)?

No, because that's not as you received it.


A possible alternative resolution in general is to allow the display of
a written offer for the source, rather than require immediate
transmission.  This should resolve the difficulty of providing source in
some circumstances; however, it doesn't resolve the other ambiguity of
what interaction is.

Matthew Flaschen

[Ross Mayfield]

Thanks for all the feedback so far.  I find it encouraging that the
only issue seems to be with the Affero clause.  Wanted to provide one
point of clarification:

On 3/8/07, Matthew Flaschen <matthew.flaschen@...> wrote:
> Your network use clause is from Affero, which is not OSI-approved.
> However, the only problem I see with this clause is that it requires
> "immediate transmission by HTTP", which to me is a violation of OSD #10
> .  I think "immediate transmission, over the network, " is much better.
>
> However, SocialText (the program itself) does not seem to have any
> provision for providing source to users, so the clause is currently
> toothless.  If you use this license, I assume you'll want every version
> you release to have this feature.

The attribution component provides a link back to Socialtext, where
the source is available for immediate transmission.

Ross

[Andrew C. Oliver-2]

I dunno about everyone else but I was waiting for Larry to explain what
the license means.  It seems more difficult to grok.  the affero part
just jumped out at me.  The license does not as I read it guarantee the
link in the affero part back to socialtext.  If it did then it would be
a bigger issue.

Ross Mayfield wrote:

> Thanks for all the feedback so far.  I find it encouraging that the
> only issue seems to be with the Affero clause.  Wanted to provide one
> point of clarification:
>
> On 3/8/07, Matthew Flaschen <matthew.flaschen@...> wrote:
>> Your network use clause is from Affero, which is not OSI-approved.
>> However, the only problem I see with this clause is that it requires
>> "immediate transmission by HTTP", which to me is a violation of OSD #10
>> .  I think "immediate transmission, over the network, " is much better.
>>
>> However, SocialText (the program itself) does not seem to have any
>> provision for providing source to users, so the clause is currently
>> toothless.  If you use this license, I assume you'll want every version
>> you release to have this feature.
>
> The attribution component provides a link back to Socialtext, where
> the source is available for immediate transmission.
>
> Ross

--
From Windows/Exchange to Linux/Meldware
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
Email, Calendaring, ease of configuration/administration
http://buni.org

[Matthew Flaschen]

Ross Mayfield wrote:
> Thanks for all the feedback so far.  I find it encouraging that the
> only issue seems to be with the Affero clause.  Wanted to provide one
> point of clarification:

That's not the only issue.  I mentioned issues other than the Affero
clause in that same email, including remaining OSD problems, logo
crowding, and what "sufficient duration" means.  See my comments on MSPL
((http://www.crynwr.com/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?3:msn:12586:adkcaejcncfanncnniol)),
 some of which still apply.  If I'm focusing on Affero, it's mainly
because it's new.

> On 3/8/07, Matthew Flaschen <matthew.flaschen@...> wrote:
>> However, SocialText (the program itself) does not seem to have any
>> provision for providing source to users, so the clause is currently
>> toothless.  If you use this license, I assume you'll want every version
>> you release to have this feature.
>
> The attribution component provides a link back to Socialtext, where
> the source is available for immediate transmission.

First of all, such an indirect link probably doesn't comply with the
clause, which require "immediate transmission".  I count 4 clicks from
the SocialText main page to the source download.  More importantly, the
whole point of Affero is to make sure the user gets the source that's
*running*; this means the right version, including otherwise private
customizations. SocialText doesn't even seem to host old versions, and
they obviously won't have changes a site makes separately.  If a site
can comply by linking to SocialText's version (rather than their private
version), there's no point.

If this is how you interpret the Affero clause, you should just remove
it, because that is not the meaning.  I'll reiterate that SocialText
(the program) does not have a source access provision, so I believe the
clause does nothing.

Matthew Flaschen

[Ross Mayfield]

Matthew, thanks again.  Let me respond in more detail to your first message, responses in bold blow.

On 3/8/07, Matthew Flaschen <matthew.flaschen@...> wrote:

Ross Mayfield wrote:
> The Socialtext Public License ("STPL") license is based on the Mozilla
> Public License with all of the modifications in Exhibit B.   Exhibit B
> include an attribution provision based on the Adaptive Public License

This provision is the same as the MSPL's, so my previous comments mostly
still apply.  To summarize: All these large, equal-prominence logos
could easily become burdensome when combined, not all GUIs support
arbitrary logos, and it is difficult to say what is "sufficient
duration".  However, unlike the MSPL, STPL's Exhibit B does not require
a link, or that the attribution is on every screen, which is good.

RESPONSE: We are not familiar with GUIs that do not support logos. Could you provide us with examples of such problems?

and a
> network use provision based on the Affero license. Socialtext believes that
> the application software has special needs as compared to operating systems
> because of the application software can be used anonymously in large
> distributions

Most open source software is actually used in this way.  Can you tell me
who made the file command, or wrote cdrom.c ?  Probably not, but both of
these are essential parts of (large) GNU/Linux distros.

RESPONSE: Our point is that the business models for application programs are different from operating systems , so this example does not address the issue. 

 

> None of the approved OSI
> approved licenses include both a network use provision and an attribution
> provision. We have limited the new provisions to those which are either the
> same or very close to provisions from existing licenses (see above).

Your network use clause is from Affero, which is not OSI-approved.
However, the only problem I see with this clause is that it requires
"immediate transmission by HTTP", which to me is a violation of OSD #10
.  I think "immediate transmission, over the network, " is much better.

However, SocialText (the program itself) does not seem to have any
provision for providing source to users, so the clause is currently
toothless.  If you use this license, I assume you'll want every version
you release to have this feature.

RESPONSE: We chose the Affero provision because the open source community is familiar with it. Given the concerns expressed by License Discuss, we are willing to delete the provisions relating to transfer by HTTP and simply require that the source code be made available in the same manner as provided in the main license agreement (see Section 3.2 of the main license agreement).

Ross

[Ben Tilly]

On 3/21/07, Ross Mayfield <ross.mayfield@...> wrote:

> Matthew, thanks again.  Let me respond in more detail to your first message,
> responses in bold blow.
>
> On 3/8/07, Matthew Flaschen <matthew.flaschen@...> wrote:
> > Ross Mayfield wrote:
>
> > This provision is the same as the MSPL's, so my previous comments mostly
> > still apply.  To summarize: All these large, equal-prominence logos
> > could easily become burdensome when combined, not all GUIs support
> > arbitrary logos, and it is difficult to say what is "sufficient
> > duration".  However, unlike the MSPL, STPL's Exhibit B does not require
> > a link, or that the attribution is on every screen, which is good.
>
> RESPONSE: We are not familiar with GUIs that do not support logos. Could you
> provide us with examples of such problems?

The statement wasn't did not support logos, it was did not support
ARBITRARY logos.  If you want an example, take a look at a PDA.

[...]
> > Most open source software is actually used in this way.  Can you tell me
> > who made the file command, or wrote cdrom.c ?  Probably not, but both of
> > these are essential parts of (large) GNU/Linux distros.
>
> RESPONSE: Our point is that the business models for application programs are
> different from operating systems , so this example does not address the
> issue.

You have plenty of bad company for your belief that YOUR particular
business model justifies changing the definition of open source to
make it more convenient for you.  I've heard many variations on your
excuse over the years, and it no more convinces me coming from your
keyboard than it did from other people's keyboards.  There are many
businesses where open source is not a good fit.  Yours might not be
one of them.

[...]
> > Your network use clause is from Affero, which is not OSI-approved.
> > However, the only problem I see with this clause is that it requires
> > "immediate transmission by HTTP", which to me is a violation of OSD #10
> > .  I think "immediate transmission, over the network, " is much better.

I actually don't like "immediate transmission" because a lot of PDAs
and laptops are moving towards allowing you to make copies, work
offline, then later resync.  (So you can, for instance, continue
working while you are on a plane.)  So there may be no immediate
network available.

> > However, SocialText (the program itself) does not seem to have any
> > provision for providing source to users, so the clause is currently
> > toothless.  If you use this license, I assume you'll want every version
> > you release to have this feature.
>
> RESPONSE: We chose the Affero provision because the open source community is
> familiar with it. Given the concerns expressed by License Discuss, we are
> willing to delete the provisions relating to transfer by HTTP and simply
> require that the source code be made available in the same manner as
> provided in the main license agreement (see Section 3.2 of the main license
> agreement).

Your reasons for selecting it notwithstanding, it still creates an OSD conflict.

Regards,
Ben

[Matthew Flaschen]

Ross Mayfield wrote:

>
> and a
>> > network use provision based on the Affero license. Socialtext believes
>> that
>> > the application software has special needs as compared to operating
>> systems
>> > because of the application software can be used anonymously in large
>> > distributions
>>
>> Most open source software is actually used in this way.  Can you tell me
>> who made the file command, or wrote cdrom.c ?  Probably not, but both of
>> these are essential parts of (large) GNU/Linux distros.
>
>
> *RESPONSE: Our point is that the business models for application programs
> are different from operating systems, so this example does not address the
> issue. *

I don't really understand what you mean by "application programs".  It
seems like it should be obvious but it isn't.  Operating system
software, like cdrom.c, seems like it is actually much more anonymous
(my point above).  Application software is generally not anonymous.  For
example, Firefox and Open Office.org are clearly successful applications
with OSI-approved licenses.   However, most people know who makes them.
 Maybe you are really referring to SaaS when you say "application programs".

>> However, SocialText (the program itself) does not seem to have any
>> provision for providing source to users, so the clause is currently
>> toothless.  If you use this license, I assume you'll want every version
>> you release to have this feature.
>>
>>
> *RESPONSE: We chose the Affero provision because the open source community
> is familiar with it. Given the concerns expressed by License Discuss, we
> are
> willing to delete the provisions relating to transfer by HTTP and simply
> require that the source code be made available in the same manner as
> provided in the main license agreement (see Section 3.2 of the main license
> agreement).*

That change would be fine from an OSD perspective.  It's just strange,
because then you run back into the problem of private modifications.

Matthew Flaschen

[Matthew Flaschen]

Ben Tilly wrote:

>> > Your network use clause is from Affero, which is not OSI-approved.
>> > However, the only problem I see with this clause is that it requires
>> > "immediate transmission by HTTP", which to me is a violation of OSD #10
>> > .  I think "immediate transmission, over the network, " is much better.
>
> I actually don't like "immediate transmission" because a lot of PDAs
> and laptops are moving towards allowing you to make copies, work
> offline, then later resync.  (So you can, for instance, continue
> working while you are on a plane.)  So there may be no immediate
> network available.

Well, if you're not online, you're no longer interacting over the
network, so the clause wouldn't apply.  However, it's true that you
might not have enough time online to download source.  Before (not
thinking of that issue), I suggested displaying a written offer of
source instead.  The issue is that the user is supposed to be able to
get the exact source used at a certain time.  Mailing a request for
source introduces delay, so the site should be required to archive every
version of the source for a few months. Thanks to modern version
control/compression/drive space, this really isn't a problem at all.

Matthew Flaschen