Future of setuptools and distribute in MacPorts

[Akira Kitada-2]

Hi,

There has been a long discussion at Python-Dev mailing list about
setuptools and distribute.

setuptools is a Python package for building module and has been widely
used in Python world.
It's really popular but known as rather 'closed'; Only a few can work
on the code and there're bug ports
in the tracker. Tarek Ziadé, one of the Python committer thought this
is not right and started
his setuptools fork project, 'Distribute'.

Distribute is compatible with setuptools, just better. The community
is active and lots of bugs in
setuptools are fixed and it even runs in Python 3.x.

A few days ago, Python 2.6.3 was released and the found that it does
not work well with setuptools,
where as Distribute works file with it.
Lots of reports have been submitted to Python list but setuptools
hasn't updated still.

So, I think it's clear that we need to have Distribute in MacPorts, but how?
Gentoo, for example, provide Distribute under the name of 'setuptools'.
Is this a right solution for MacPorts? I personally think that's the
way, because
Distribute is just another name of setuptools with bug fixes and the
two cannot be
installed at the same time and MacPorts's dependency system does not allow us
to do that other than treating both in the same port name.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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[Ryan Schmidt-24]

On Oct 7, 2009, at 12:09, Akira Kitada wrote:

> There has been a long discussion at Python-Dev mailing list about
> setuptools and distribute.
>
> setuptools is a Python package for building module and has been widely
> used in Python world.
> It's really popular but known as rather 'closed'; Only a few can work
> on the code and there're bug ports
> in the tracker. Tarek Ziadé, one of the Python committer thought this
> is not right and started
> his setuptools fork project, 'Distribute'.
>
> Distribute is compatible with setuptools, just better. The community
> is active and lots of bugs in
> setuptools are fixed and it even runs in Python 3.x.
>
> A few days ago, Python 2.6.3 was released and the found that it does
> not work well with setuptools,
> where as Distribute works file with it.
> Lots of reports have been submitted to Python list but setuptools
> hasn't updated still.
>
> So, I think it's clear that we need to have Distribute in MacPorts,  
> but how?
> Gentoo, for example, provide Distribute under the name of  
> 'setuptools'.
> Is this a right solution for MacPorts? I personally think that's the
> way, because
> Distribute is just another name of setuptools with bug fixes and the
> two cannot be
> installed at the same time and MacPorts's dependency system does not  
> allow us
> to do that other than treating both in the same port name.

py26-distribute was recently added to MacPorts.

Ports can declare conflicts with other ports now, as of MacPorts  
1.8.0. py26-distribute does declare that it conflicts with py26-
setuptools.

We could modify all ports that currently depend on py26-setuptools so  
that they could work with either py26-setuptools or py26-distribute,  
by using a path:-style dependency instead of a port:-style one. Or is  
py26-distribute a superset of py26-setuptools, to be preferred in all  
cases?



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[Bryan Blackburn-4]

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:09:29AM +0900, Akira Kitada said:

> Hi,
>
> There has been a long discussion at Python-Dev mailing list about
> setuptools and distribute.
>
> setuptools is a Python package for building module and has been widely
> used in Python world.
> It's really popular but known as rather 'closed'; Only a few can work
> on the code and there're bug ports
> in the tracker. Tarek Ziadé, one of the Python committer thought this
> is not right and started
> his setuptools fork project, 'Distribute'.
>
> Distribute is compatible with setuptools, just better. The community
> is active and lots of bugs in
> setuptools are fixed and it even runs in Python 3.x.
>
> A few days ago, Python 2.6.3 was released and the found that it does
> not work well with setuptools,
> where as Distribute works file with it.
> Lots of reports have been submitted to Python list but setuptools
> hasn't updated still.

I patched py26-setuptools in r58886 to deal with 2.6.3's changed distutils,
so as long as you have 0.6c9_1 you should be fine.

>
> So, I think it's clear that we need to have Distribute in MacPorts, but how?
> Gentoo, for example, provide Distribute under the name of 'setuptools'.
> Is this a right solution for MacPorts? I personally think that's the
> way, because
> Distribute is just another name of setuptools with bug fixes and the
> two cannot be
> installed at the same time and MacPorts's dependency system does not allow us
> to do that other than treating both in the same port name.

Moving over to distribute is one possibility, but the discussion on (at
least) distutils-sig seems like the python community hasn't quite decided on
where things are going yet...at least with the patched setuptools things
should still work as well as they have until we have a clearer overall idea
of where things will be going.

Note that I also added py26-distribute, but as you note it does conflict
with py26-setuptools, so moving to it would be painful.  Maybe it can be the
preferred one for py27 ports?

Bryan

>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
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[vincent habchi-2]

Le 7 oct. 2009 à 22:21, Bryan Blackburn a écrit :

> preferred one for py27 ports?

Are you sure there will be a python 2.7? I thought 2.6 was the last  
one in the 2 branch.

Vincent
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[Andre Stechert-2]

> Moving over to distribute is one possibility, but the discussion on (at
> least) distutils-sig seems like the python community hasn't quite decided on
> where things are going yet...at least with the patched setuptools things
> should still work as well as they have until we have a clearer overall idea
> of where things will be going.

I think Guido just made things a lot clearer:

"I think at this point the community should not be forced wait for you
to get a new supply of round tuits. The wait has been too long
already. You can stay on in an advisory role, but I don't think it's
reasonable to block development or decisions until you have time."

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-October/092674.html

and:

"I'm saying that I don't expect setuptools 0.7 to appear before Tarek's
Distribute is mature and in widespread use. IOW I support Tarek's fork
and suggest nobody hold their breath waiting for setuptools 0.7."

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-October/092678.html

Cheers,
Andre
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[Akira Kitada-2]

It seems it's likely to happen.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-September/092005.html

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:34 AM, vincent habchi <vince@...> wrote:

> Le 7 oct. 2009 à 22:21, Bryan Blackburn a écrit :
>
>> preferred one for py27 ports?
>
> Are you sure there will be a python 2.7? I thought 2.6 was the last one in
> the 2 branch.
>
> Vincent
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>

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[Akira Kitada-2]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Ryan Schmidt <ryandesign@...> wrote:
>
> py26-distribute was recently added to MacPorts.
>
> Ports can declare conflicts with other ports now, as of MacPorts 1.8.0.
> py26-distribute does declare that it conflicts with py26-setuptools.

Thanks for the tip. I couldn't find it in MacPorts Guide so I thought it isn't.

> We could modify all ports that currently depend on py26-setuptools so that
> they could work with either py26-setuptools or py26-distribute, by using a
> path:-style dependency instead of a port:-style one. Or is py26-distribute a
> superset of py26-setuptools, to be preferred in all cases?

Yes Distribute 0.6.x is better setuptools. If you find bugs in Distribute
it will be fixed in upstream within a reasonable time.
Guido also said he supports Distribute.
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[Ryan Schmidt-24]

On Oct 7, 2009, at 18:22, Akira Kitada wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
>
>> Ports can declare conflicts with other ports now, as of MacPorts  
>> 1.8.0.
>> py26-distribute does declare that it conflicts with py26-setuptools.
>
> Thanks for the tip. I couldn't find it in MacPorts Guide so I  
> thought it isn't.

The guide hasn't been updated in awhile. It's probably missing most of  
what went into MacPorts 1.8.0. Check the MacPorts ChangeLog or NEWS  
files to see what else is new.


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[Akira Kitada-2]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Bryan Blackburn <blb@...> wrote:
> Moving over to distribute is one possibility, but the discussion on (at
> least) distutils-sig seems like the python community hasn't quite decided on
> where things are going yet...at least with the patched setuptools things
> should still work as well as they have until we have a clearer overall idea
> of where things will be going.

I think that's not what the Python community decides but the
distributer, in this case,
the MacPorts community.

> Note that I also added py26-distribute, but as you note it does conflict
> with py26-setuptools, so moving to it would be painful.  Maybe it can be the
> preferred one for py27 ports?

How about starting it now?

>
> Bryan
>
>>
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
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> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>

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[Rainer Müller-4]

On 2009-10-07 22:21 , Bryan Blackburn wrote:
> Note that I also added py26-distribute, but as you note it does conflict
> with py26-setuptools, so moving to it would be painful.  Maybe it can be the
> preferred one for py27 ports?

We could use a replaced_by to get rid of py26-setuptools completely and
avoid the conflict.

Rainer
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[Akira Kitada-2]

Appanrently Debian also adopted Distribute for setuptools, I mean,
aptitude install python-setuptools installs 'distribute'.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Akira Kitada <akitada@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Bryan Blackburn <blb@...> wrote:
>> Moving over to distribute is one possibility, but the discussion on (at
>> least) distutils-sig seems like the python community hasn't quite decided on
>> where things are going yet...at least with the patched setuptools things
>> should still work as well as they have until we have a clearer overall idea
>> of where things will be going.
>
> I think that's not what the Python community decides but the
> distributer, in this case,
> the MacPorts community.
>
>> Note that I also added py26-distribute, but as you note it does conflict
>> with py26-setuptools, so moving to it would be painful.  Maybe it can be the
>> preferred one for py27 ports?
>
> How about starting it now?
>
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>> Thanks.
>> _______________________________________________
>> macports-dev mailing list
>> macports-dev@...
>> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>>
>

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