Fw: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning - suggest closing

[noah_mendelsohn]

I am forwarding this for the benefit of those who read www-tag but not
public-html.  I see Larry raising two issues:

1. Versioning in particular
2. "There are other TAG items also relating to reviewing HTML."

Larry writes:

> I suggest you, Sam, coordinate directly with Noah Mendelsohn as TAG
> chair to establish scope and coordination.

To level set with the TAG community before interacting with Sam on these
issues, my view of the current Tag status is:  we are indeed discussing
issues relating to versioning, we have indeed discussed a range of other
issues that may relate to HTML, and we are attempting a more careful
reading of the HTML 5 draft.

At this point, I don't >think< the TAG has agreed on any specific points
that we want to communicate to the HTML WG (TAG members, please correct me
if I'm wrong.)  Obviously, I will be pleased to coordinate with Sam as
Larry suggests, both to convey any conclusions the TAG might reach, to see
if there are other ways we might be helpful, and also to better understand
scheduling constraints on the HTML side (Sam and I did chat briefly by
phone last week, so I think I have an informal understanding of where
things stand.)

I will include discussion of Larry's note in the agenda for this week's
TAG teleconference.

Thank you.

Noah


--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------




----- Forwarded by Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM on 08/24/2009 10:26 AM
-----


Larry Masinter <masinter@...>
08/23/2009 07:47 PM
 
        To:     Sam Ruby <rubys@...>
        cc:     HTML WG <public-html@...>, "noah_mendelsohn@..."
<noah_mendelsohn@...>
        Subject:        RE: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning - suggest
closing


Sam,

The TAG activity on Versioning was documented in
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/sum07.html

" A framework for evaluation of language versioning mechanisms,
with particular focus on Version indicators such as DOCTYPE
 declarations."

which is noted as TAG issue 41:

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41

There are other TAG items also relating to reviewing HTML.

I suggest you, Sam, coordinate directly with Noah
Mendelsohn as TAG chair to establish scope and coordination.

Thanks!

Larry
--
http://larry.masinter.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ruby [mailto:rubys@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:21 AM
To: Larry Masinter
Cc: HTML WG
Subject: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning - suggest closing

Larry, since April you have been reporting back on the TAG's work on
versioning wrt HTML.  At this time, I would like to close that action
item.  If you believe that this work will result in a tangible set of
requirements and/or proposal, I would like to open a separate action
item on that, and would like to know what target date you would like for
that action.

- Sam Ruby

[Sam Ruby]

Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM wrote on 08/24/2009 10:48:16 AM:
>
> I am forwarding this for the benefit of those who read www-tag but
> not public-html.  I see Larry raising two issues:
>
> 1. Versioning in particular
> 2. "There are other TAG items also relating to reviewing HTML."
>
> Larry writes:
>
> > I suggest you, Sam, coordinate directly with Noah Mendelsohn as TAG
> > chair to establish scope and coordination.
>
> To level set with the TAG community before interacting with Sam on
> these issues, my view of the current Tag status is:  we are indeed
> discussing issues relating to versioning, we have indeed discussed a
> range of other issues that may relate to HTML, and we are attempting
> a more careful reading of the HTML 5 draft.
>
> At this point, I don't >think< the TAG has agreed on any specific
> points that we want to communicate to the HTML WG (TAG members,
> please correct me if I'm wrong.)  Obviously, I will be pleased to
> coordinate with Sam as Larry suggests, both to convey any
> conclusions the TAG might reach, to see if there are other ways we
> might be helpful, and also to better understand scheduling
> constraints on the HTML side (Sam and I did chat briefly by phone
> last week, so I think I have an informal understanding of where things stand.)

Ian Hickson is intending to be ready for Last Call in October.  I'm a bit less optimistic as I see issues that are likely to take until December to resolve, but those are being actively worked, and perhaps they could be pulled in.  Either way, we are talking 4Q09.

I'd like to note that Issue 4 has been open since 2007.  Action 108 itself has been open for over six months.

The questions I would like to pose are: (1) is there a possibility for this to come in by last call?  And (2) do we need to move last call?

From my perspective, I think it would be disingenuous to proceed to last call with this issue still open and with the expectation that a serious proposal is imminent that will merit serious consideration and may require substantial rework.
 
> I will include discussion of Larry's note in the agenda for this
> week's TAG teleconference.

Much appreciated!  From my perspective, I'd like to see this issue resolved to everyone's satisfaction, prior to Last Call, and without further delay.
 
> Thank you.
>
> Noah

- Sam Ruby

>
> --------------------------------------
> Noah Mendelsohn
> IBM Corporation
> One Rogers Street
> Cambridge, MA 02142
> 1-617-693-4036
> --------------------------------------

> ----- Forwarded by Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM on 08/24/2009 10:26 AM -----
>
> Larry Masinter <masinter@...>
> 08/23/2009 07:47 PM
>
>  
>  To: Sam Ruby <rubys@...>
>  cc: HTML WG <public-html@...>, "noah_mendelsohn@..."
> <noah_mendelsohn@...>
>  Subject: RE: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning - suggest closing
>
> Sam,
>
> The TAG activity on Versioning was documented in
> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/sum07.html
>
> " A framework for evaluation of language versioning mechanisms,
> with particular focus on Version indicators such as DOCTYPE
>  declarations."
>
> which is noted as TAG issue 41:
>
> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41
>
> There are other TAG items also relating to reviewing HTML.
>
> I suggest you, Sam, coordinate directly with Noah
> Mendelsohn as TAG chair to establish scope and coordination.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Larry
> --
> http://larry.masinter.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ruby [rubys@...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:21 AM
> To: Larry Masinter
> Cc: HTML WG
> Subject: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning - suggest closing
>
> Larry, since April you have been reporting back on the TAG's work on
> versioning wrt HTML.  At this time, I would like to close that action
> item.  If you believe that this work will result in a tangible set of
> requirements and/or proposal, I would like to open a separate action
> item on that, and would like to know what target date you would like for
> that action.
>
> - Sam Ruby

[noah_mendelsohn]

Sam Ruby wrote:

> The questions I would like to pose are: (1) is there a possibility
> for this to come in by last call?  And (2) do we need to move last call?

That's exactly what I expected you'd ask.  TAG meeting attendance has been
thin over the summer.  So, I don't have any formal TAG responses to those
questions just now.  This Thursday's call should have better attendance,
so we'll be doing some re-syncing, and we have a F2F in late Sept.

I will try to ensure that the TAG remains mindful of HTML WG scheduling
goals and constraints;  please do keep us informed if these change.  Thank
you.

Noah

--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------








Sam Ruby <rubys@...>
Sent by: www-tag-request@...
08/24/2009 11:20 AM
 
        To:     Noah Mendelsohn <noah_mendelsohn@...>
        cc:     www-tag@...
        Subject:        Re: Fw: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning -
suggest closing


Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM wrote on 08/24/2009 10:48:16 AM:

>
> I am forwarding this for the benefit of those who read www-tag but
> not public-html.  I see Larry raising two issues:
>
> 1. Versioning in particular
> 2. "There are other TAG items also relating to reviewing HTML."
>
> Larry writes:
>
> > I suggest you, Sam, coordinate directly with Noah Mendelsohn as TAG
> > chair to establish scope and coordination.
>
> To level set with the TAG community before interacting with Sam on
> these issues, my view of the current Tag status is:  we are indeed
> discussing issues relating to versioning, we have indeed discussed a
> range of other issues that may relate to HTML, and we are attempting
> a more careful reading of the HTML 5 draft.
>
> At this point, I don't >think< the TAG has agreed on any specific
> points that we want to communicate to the HTML WG (TAG members,
> please correct me if I'm wrong.)  Obviously, I will be pleased to
> coordinate with Sam as Larry suggests, both to convey any
> conclusions the TAG might reach, to see if there are other ways we
> might be helpful, and also to better understand scheduling
> constraints on the HTML side (Sam and I did chat briefly by phone
> last week, so I think I have an informal understanding of where things

stand.)

Ian Hickson is intending to be ready for Last Call in October.  I'm a bit
less optimistic as I see issues that are likely to take until December to
resolve, but those are being actively worked, and perhaps they could be
pulled in.  Either way, we are talking 4Q09.

I'd like to note that Issue 4 has been open since 2007.  Action 108 itself
has been open for over six months.

The questions I would like to pose are: (1) is there a possibility for
this to come in by last call?  And (2) do we need to move last call?

>From my perspective, I think it would be disingenuous to proceed to last
call with this issue still open and with the expectation that a serious
proposal is imminent that will merit serious consideration and may require
substantial rework.
 
> I will include discussion of Larry's note in the agenda for this
> week's TAG teleconference.

Much appreciated!  From my perspective, I'd like to see this issue
resolved to everyone's satisfaction, prior to Last Call, and without
further delay.
 
> Thank you.
>
> Noah

- Sam Ruby

>
> --------------------------------------
> Noah Mendelsohn
> IBM Corporation
> One Rogers Street
> Cambridge, MA 02142
> 1-617-693-4036
> --------------------------------------

> ----- Forwarded by Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM on 08/24/2009 10:26 AM
-----

>
> Larry Masinter <masinter@...>
> 08/23/2009 07:47 PM
>
>
>  To: Sam Ruby <rubys@...>
>  cc: HTML WG <public-html@...>, "noah_mendelsohn@..."
> <noah_mendelsohn@...>
>  Subject: RE: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning - suggest closing
>
> Sam,
>
> The TAG activity on Versioning was documented in
> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/sum07.html
>
> " A framework for evaluation of language versioning mechanisms,
> with particular focus on Version indicators such as DOCTYPE
>  declarations."
>
> which is noted as TAG issue 41:
>
> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41
>
> There are other TAG items also relating to reviewing HTML.
>
> I suggest you, Sam, coordinate directly with Noah
> Mendelsohn as TAG chair to establish scope and coordination.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Larry
> --
> http://larry.masinter.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ruby [mailto:rubys@...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:21 AM
> To: Larry Masinter
> Cc: HTML WG
> Subject: Issue-4/Action-108 html-versioning - suggest closing
>
> Larry, since April you have been reporting back on the TAG's work on
> versioning wrt HTML.  At this time, I would like to close that action
> item.  If you believe that this work will result in a tangible set of
> requirements and/or proposal, I would like to open a separate action
> item on that, and would like to know what target date you would like for

> that action.
>
> - Sam Ruby