Fw: unsubscribe

[michael considine-2]

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: michael considine <mlconsidine@...>
To: users@...
Sent: Mon, 5 October, 2009 6:43:29 PM
Subject: unsubscribe

To whom it may concern,

I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to receive anymore Emails thanks.


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[Allan Alexander]

Many thanks Michael

michael considine wrote:

>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: michael considine <mlconsidine@...>
> To: users@...
> Sent: Mon, 5 October, 2009 6:43:29 PM
> Subject: unsubscribe
>
> To whom it may concern,
>
> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to receive anymore Emails thanks.
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________________________
> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.
> Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
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[AG-21]

Is it just me or does this list seem to receive a surprising amount of
messages requesting to be unsubscribed?  I belong to over 20 other lists
from a range of (computing-related) fields and this is easily the list
with the highest unsubscription-related traffic from this albeit limited
sample, as exemplified by Mr Considine's repeated plea below.

At the risk of coming across as elitist or starting some kind of
flame-war, I wonder if this is because with the exception of a couple of
multi-platform lists, my other subscriptions exclude MS Windows and MS
Office users by the nature of the OS used (GNU/Linux and *BSD).  The
multi-platform lists (with the exception of this one) concern
programming, so are platform generic, but are likely to attract a higher
percentage of "computer-aware" users.  OOo users is the one
cross-platform list I belong to that is for the user rather than a
programmer demographic and is also the one most plagued as described.

Is this merely a coincidence?  It would be interesting to see whether
that is an experience others can challenge or confirm.  I'm not
interested in scoring points, so my concern is really about the
widespread use of computers by so many people who are both novices (by
choice, circumstance, or obliviousness) when it comes to the actual use
of the machine which is also a very powerful - and potentially very
vulnerable - device.  For users to be unable to read footers on emails
and then to follow directions ... ?

What I am wondering then is whether or not others can confirm or
undermine my observation that the extent of "unsub me pls" type emails
on the OOo user list is higher than one might expect on a user list.  In
my experience on GNU/Linux and *BSD OS related lists, the standard of
community expectations was not only clear, it was also enforced in terms
of (a) how to ask smart questions and (b) basic netiquette.  Hence the
archetypal insistence of RTFM  (kudos to Mr Meyer's polite suggestion to
RTFF !) and this has generated a culture that tends to self-filter out
the "noise" of users who want to leave a list, but cannot be bothered to
read the footer of each and every email and to follow the direction,
such as a certain percentage of OOo users who appear to be MS based.  
The relationship between MS user and computing awareness is the topic of
another discussion perhaps, but not here.

Personally I would suggest that the standard footer be augmented with
the additional notice that all posts with the subject line "unsubscribe
me" is sent post haste to /dev/null .  Harsh but fair, cuts down
bandwidth, list noise and solves a request that no-one on this list is
capable of resolving anyway, besides by pointing out what is already
blindingly obvious.

Thoughts?

AG

>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: michael considine <mlconsidine@...>
> To: users@...
> Sent: Mon, 5 October, 2009 6:43:29 PM
> Subject: unsubscribe
>
> To whom it may concern,
>
> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to receive anymore Emails thanks.
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________________________
> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.
> Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
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> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.
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>
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[Michael Adams-2]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:37:42 +0000
Came this utterance formulated by AG to my mailbox:

> Is it just me or does this list seem to receive a surprising amount of
> messages requesting to be unsubscribed?  I belong to over 20 other
> lists from a range of (computing-related) fields and this is easily
> the list with the highest unsubscription-related traffic from this
> albeit limited sample, as exemplified by Mr Considine's repeated plea
> below.
>
> At the risk of coming across as elitist or starting some kind of
> flame-war, I wonder if this is because with the exception of a couple
> of multi-platform lists, my other subscriptions exclude MS Windows and
> MS Office users by the nature of the OS used (GNU/Linux and *BSD).
> The multi-platform lists (with the exception of this one) concern
> programming, so are platform generic, but are likely to attract a
> higher percentage of "computer-aware" users.  OOo users is the one
> cross-platform list I belong to that is for the user rather than a
> programmer demographic and is also the one most plagued as described.
>

 * The OO.o lists are (relativly) easy to find on the website.
 * The user list especially is prone to be seen as an email helpdesk
facility.
 * signing up is (too?) easy.
 * Many who want the power of an Office product are newbies to
computers.
 * Many who want help are not even familiar with copy and paste.
 * Many who want help are totally unfamiliar with mailing lists:
   - No knowledge of threading.
   - No knowledge of top or bottom posting conventions.
   - No knowledge of how to set up an email filter.
 * Many join the list without understanding how many emails they will
receive.
 * Many do not know howw to get off a mailing list once on:
   - the list has been threatened with lawsuits for spamming.
   - the list has suffered manual blitz attacks from those frustrated in
     trying to get off the list.
 * Third parties that sell OO.o direct often quote this list as a help
facility.
 * Some list members have recommended to unsubscribed posters that they
should subscribe.
 * Most of these topics have been discussed repeatedly.
 * Many newbies for the above reasons are better off not subscribed.
 * Programmers, especially OSS programmers, are not only familiar with
mailing lists but also mailing list nettiquette. Newbies are often not.

A few that could genuinely help have given up and unsubscribed
themselves due to the signal/noise ratio. Some with low tolerance to
newbie mistakes hang around interminably slamming newbies. Others with
serious opposition to the way this list is run also hang round
interminably griping, sniping and flaming. It may be like mayhem around
here, but there is still a good amount of usefull help that goes on
regardless.

HTH

--
Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416

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[AG-21]

Michael Adams wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:37:42 +0000
> Came this utterance formulated by AG to my mailbox:
>
>  
>> Is it just me or does this list seem to receive a surprising amount of
>> messages requesting to be unsubscribed?  I belong to over 20 other
>> lists from a range of (computing-related) fields and this is easily
>> the list with the highest unsubscription-related traffic from this
>> albeit limited sample, as exemplified by Mr Considine's repeated plea
>> below.
>>
>> At the risk of coming across as elitist or starting some kind of
>> flame-war, I wonder if this is because with the exception of a couple
>> of multi-platform lists, my other subscriptions exclude MS Windows and
>> MS Office users by the nature of the OS used (GNU/Linux and *BSD).
>> The multi-platform lists (with the exception of this one) concern
>> programming, so are platform generic, but are likely to attract a
>> higher percentage of "computer-aware" users.  OOo users is the one
>> cross-platform list I belong to that is for the user rather than a
>> programmer demographic and is also the one most plagued as described.
>>
>>    
>
>  * The OO.o lists are (relativly) easy to find on the website.
>  * The user list especially is prone to be seen as an email helpdesk
> facility.
>  * signing up is (too?) easy.
>  * Many who want the power of an Office product are newbies to
> computers.
>  * Many who want help are not even familiar with copy and paste.
>  * Many who want help are totally unfamiliar with mailing lists:
>    - No knowledge of threading.
>    - No knowledge of top or bottom posting conventions.
>    - No knowledge of how to set up an email filter.
>  * Many join the list without understanding how many emails they will
> receive.
>  * Many do not know howw to get off a mailing list once on:
>    - the list has been threatened with lawsuits for spamming.
>    - the list has suffered manual blitz attacks from those frustrated in
>      trying to get off the list.
>  * Third parties that sell OO.o direct often quote this list as a help
> facility.
>  * Some list members have recommended to unsubscribed posters that they
> should subscribe.
>  * Most of these topics have been discussed repeatedly.
>  * Many newbies for the above reasons are better off not subscribed.
>  * Programmers, especially OSS programmers, are not only familiar with
> mailing lists but also mailing list nettiquette. Newbies are often not.
>
> A few that could genuinely help have given up and unsubscribed
> themselves due to the signal/noise ratio. Some with low tolerance to
> newbie mistakes hang around interminably slamming newbies. Others with
> serious opposition to the way this list is run also hang round
> interminably griping, sniping and flaming. It may be like mayhem around
> here, but there is still a good amount of usefull help that goes on
> regardless.
>
> HTH
>
>  

That pretty much sums up the range of issues underlying my observation.

We all began from zero, so being a newbie isn't the issue.  I do sense
quite a distinction, and recognise it in myself, between wanting to
*use* a computer and wanting to *learn* a computer.  To some extent one
should expect to have to learn how to use the expensive and powerful bit
of kit one has invested in, but when computers are sold as consumer
goods it seems to engender, at least through the common MS hegemony, a
kind of point-and-click attitude.

In light of this, is there any mileage in reducing the list noise
through a /dev/null switch or for starting a branch for
*absolute*-n00bs?  Losing more experienced users due to list noise is
simply a result of poor list management.  Without more experienced users
willing to share that experience, no-one learns which is really
antithetical to the FS and OSS community ethos.

I have no idea about how to set or change list serv configs, but the
python-based MailMan (found at:  
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html ) allows quite a few
config settings to manage lists.

It just seems quite counter-productive to become a black hole for user
noise without any way of filtering out the genuine requests for help,
observations and contributions from the pleas of those who have been
subscribed wittingly or by direction to unsubscribe.  This can surely
not be a difficult issue to solve, and if it can't be solved at the
level of the list, then I'll probably have to experiment with filters
locally in IceDove (aka ThunderBird).  More than this however is the
trend that, as you note, begins to chase away those from whom we can
each learn, and which makes any list worth its onions.

[Steven Kopischke]

On 10/30/2009 13:37, AG wrote:
> Is it just me or does this list seem to receive a surprising amount of
> messages requesting to be unsubscribed?

In the years I have (off and on) subscribed and paid attention to the
OOo lists, we seem to open this particular dialog periodically. I recall
a few years back being told that expecting users to actually read
installation instructions and licensing terms was "elitist" or something
similar.

It's not the operating system that leads to that kind of thinking, but
it's more societal than that. When we began removing an individual's
responsibility for his or her own actions from the cultural behavioral
norm, we began giving everyone the right to obey or disobey any rule or
suggestion they liked.

This is just another symptom.

Ah, well.

SK

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[Brewster Gillett]

On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 18:02 -0700, michael considine wrote:

>
> To whom it may concern,
>
> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to receive anymore Emails thanks.

Holy crap, man, how clueless is it possible for someone to be?
Do you have someone to follow you around and wipe your nose, too?

The bottom of every email message you have received from this group
has contained the following message:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...

Is that clear enough for you?

Brewster Gillett


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[Steven Kopischke]

Nice.


On 10/30/2009 16:51, Brewster Gillett wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 18:02 -0700, michael considine wrote:
>
>    
>> To whom it may concern,
>>
>> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to receive anymore Emails thanks.
>>      
> Holy crap, man, how clueless is it possible for someone to be?
> Do you have someone to follow you around and wipe your nose, too?
>
> The bottom of every email message you have received from this group
> has contained the following message:
>    
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>>      
> Is that clear enough for you?
>
> Brewster Gillett
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>
>
>    

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[Manfred J. Krause]

Steven Kopischke wrote:

Nice.

[...]

GOODBYE from [e-mail]

Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
[e-mail] mailing list.

Acknowledgment: I have removed the address

  [e-mail]

from the users mailing list.
This address is no longer a subscriber.


--- Administrative commands for the users list ---

I can handle administrative requests automatically.
Please do not send them to the list address! Instead,
send your message to the correct command address:

To subscribe to the list, send a message to:
  <[e-mail]>

To remove your address from the list, send a message to:
  <[e-mail]>

[...]

[Gallomimia]

And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at the
top of each message on how to unsub

iPhone of Gallo

On 2009-10-30, at 14:51, Brewster Gillett <bg@...> wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 18:02 -0700, michael considine wrote:
>
>>
>> To whom it may concern,
>>
>> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to
>> receive anymore Emails thanks.
>
> Holy crap, man, how clueless is it possible for someone to be?
> Do you have someone to follow you around and wipe your nose, too?
>
> The bottom of every email message you have received from this group
> has contained the following message:
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>
> Is that clear enough for you?
>
> Brewster Gillett
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>

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For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...

[Michael Adams-2]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:31:50 +0000
Came this utterance formulated by AG to my mailbox:

>
> We all began from zero, so being a newbie isn't the issue.  I do sense
> quite a distinction, and recognise it in myself, between wanting to
> *use* a computer and wanting to *learn* a computer.  To some extent
> one should expect to have to learn how to use the expensive and
> powerful bit of kit one has invested in, but when computers are sold
> as consumer goods it seems to engender, at least through the common MS
> hegemony, a kind of point-and-click attitude.
>
> In light of this, is there any mileage in reducing the list noise
> through a /dev/null switch or for starting a branch for
> *absolute*-n00bs?

This is the branch for absolute newbies. More experienced users wishing
info consult the documentation, perhaps the forums, the qa project or if
they are really up with the play they approach the project concerned
direct; IOW there are a lot more options for those in the know.

> Losing more experienced users due to list noise is simply a result of
> poor list management.  Without more experienced users willing to share
> that experience, no-one learns which is really antithetical to the FS
> and OSS community ethos.
>

If you are after help... you need not be subscribed. If you are offering
help those absolute newbies need it as much as anyone.

> I have no idea about how to set or change list serv configs

http://www.openoffice.org/mail_list.html
Hidden in every list email headers:
mailto:users-help@...

[snip]

> It just seems quite counter-productive to become a black hole for user
> noise without any way of filtering out the genuine requests for help,
> observations and contributions from the pleas of those who have been
> subscribed wittingly or by direction to unsubscribe.

A lot, perhaps most, of the noise is generated by list members. A lot of
requests for help can look like noise in the first place.

> This can surely not be a difficult issue to solve, and if it can't be
> solved at the level of the list, then I'll probably have to experiment
> with filters locally in IceDove (aka ThunderBird).  More than this
> however is the trend that, as you note, begins to chase away those
> from whom we can each learn, and which makes any list worth its
> onions.
>

Typically the most knowledgable in giving assistance lurk here or are
contacted by others when they are needed. I am here to help the total
noobs, and to sometimes try to formulate semi-lucid questions. I and
others have either become accustomed to the way the list works or
beleive it is a good compromise along with the forums allowing easy
access to newbies.

--
Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416

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[Robert Holtzman]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, Mark Webster wrote:

> And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
> would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at the
> top of each message on how to unsub

Noob slammer or not, he's right. Also, would a line at the top of a
message be any more effective than the existing one at the bottom?

--
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
  check the price of the beer"

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[Sigrid Carrera]

Hi,

Am Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:32:26 -0400
schrieb James Knott <james.knott@...>:

> Mark Webster wrote:
> > And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
> > would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at
> > the top of each message on how to unsub
> >    
> There is already a very short line at the bottom of each message on
> how to unsub.

is it so, that every email program shows that lines? I thought, that
I've read somewhere, that some email programmes don't show those lines
when they are separated from the other text with two or more dashes.

So it might be, that these users can't see those lines.

Sigrid


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[jughead4158]

heres a simple one line Ill put on top of the email. idiot I don't give a
fuck who the hell you think you are mutherfucker
Drop dead, and blocked.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark Webster" <gallomimia@...>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:51 PM
To: <users@...>
Subject: Re: [users] Fw: unsubscribe

> And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
> would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at the
> top of each message on how to unsub
>
> iPhone of Gallo
>
> On 2009-10-30, at 14:51, Brewster Gillett <bg@...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 18:02 -0700, michael considine wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>
>>> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to
>>> receive anymore Emails thanks.
>>
>> Holy crap, man, how clueless is it possible for someone to be?
>> Do you have someone to follow you around and wipe your nose, too?
>>
>> The bottom of every email message you have received from this group
>> has contained the following message:
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> Is that clear enough for you?
>>
>> Brewster Gillett
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>
>

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[jughead4158]

heres a simple one line Ill put on top of the email. idiot I don't give a
fuck who the hell you think you are mutherfucker
Drop dead, and blocked.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark Webster" <gallomimia@...>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:51 PM
To: <users@...>
Subject: Re: [users] Fw: unsubscribe

> And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
> would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at the
> top of each message on how to unsub
>
> iPhone of Gallo
>
> On 2009-10-30, at 14:51, Brewster Gillett <bg@...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 18:02 -0700, michael considine wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>
>>> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to
>>> receive anymore Emails thanks.
>>
>> Holy crap, man, how clueless is it possible for someone to be?
>> Do you have someone to follow you around and wipe your nose, too?
>>
>> The bottom of every email message you have received from this group
>> has contained the following message:
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> Is that clear enough for you?
>>
>> Brewster Gillett
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>
>

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[jughead4158]

heres a simple one line Ill put on top of the email. idiot I don't give a
fuck who the hell you think you are mutherfucker
Drop dead, and blocked.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark Webster" <gallomimia@...>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:51 PM
To: <users@...>
Subject: Re: [users] Fw: unsubscribe

> And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
> would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at the
> top of each message on how to unsub
>
> iPhone of Gallo
>
> On 2009-10-30, at 14:51, Brewster Gillett <bg@...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 18:02 -0700, michael considine wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>
>>> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to
>>> receive anymore Emails thanks.
>>
>> Holy crap, man, how clueless is it possible for someone to be?
>> Do you have someone to follow you around and wipe your nose, too?
>>
>> The bottom of every email message you have received from this group
>> has contained the following message:
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> Is that clear enough for you?
>>
>> Brewster Gillett
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>
>

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[Brewster Gillett]

On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 15:51 -0700, Mark Webster wrote:
> And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
> would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at the
> top of each message on how to unsub

bg:

Sorry, Mark, my usual inclination is to try to be helpful, but I watch
about 40 noobs a week miss the "unsub" verbiage, on various lists,
and when Number Forty-One comes drooling along, I snap :-)

I am perfectly capable of being sympathetic to people's difficulties
when navigating unfamiliar situations, providing they appear to
be holding up their end by exerting at least a minimal effort to
actually pay attention. This "unsub" one is a pet peeve, because
it reflects an almost total, practically *studied* inattention.

If they don't bother noticing the line at the bottom, I doubt they
would notice it at the top.


Brewster


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[Brewster Gillett]

On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 02:47 +0100, Sigrid Carrera wrote:
>  
> is it so, that every email program shows that lines? I thought, that
> I've read somewhere, that some email programmes don't show those lines
> when they are separated from the other text with two or more dashes.
>
> So it might be, that these users can't see those lines.
>
> Sigrid

bg:

Sigrid, so far as I've ever known, the suppression of following lines is
only accomplished by the sequence, dash, dash, space, <CR>. And even
then it only applies to the "REPLY EDIT" process, not to an original
message.

I am not aware that an entire line of dashes would have any such effect,
under either condition.

Brewster


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[NoOp-4]

On 10/30/2009 08:10 PM, jughead4158 wrote:

> heres a simple one line Ill put on top of the email. idiot I don't give a
> <sniped> who the hell you think you are <snipped>
> Drop dead, and blocked.
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Mark Webster" <gallomimia@...>
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: <users@...>
> Subject: Re: [users] Fw: unsubscribe
>
>> And here we have our typical noob slammer. I've been wondering if it
>> would be more trouble than it's worth to put a very short line at the
>> top of each message on how to unsub
>>
>> iPhone of Gallo
>>
>> On 2009-10-30, at 14:51, Brewster Gillett <bg@...> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 18:02 -0700, michael considine wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to unsubscribe from this Website. I do not want to
>>>> receive anymore Emails thanks.
>>>
>>> Holy crap, man, how clueless is it possible for someone to be?
>>> Do you have someone to follow you around and wipe your nose, too?
>>>
>>> The bottom of every email message you have received from this group
>>> has contained the following message:
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>> Is that clear enough for you?
>>>
>>> Brewster Gillett
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>>
>>

No snips or trimming (on purpose - except for the expletives from the
honorable  & subscribed Mr. Jughead)... Just a note to Harold; no need
to forward these to the OP eh?  :-)




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[Gallomimia]

> There is already a very short line at the bottom of each message on how to
> unsub.
>
People don't scroll to the bottom of their emails. Especially webmail
users. If it's the first line, might it be more prominent? I wrote the
previous email from my iPhone and I found lines to wrap almost always,
so a shorter line would be needed. I also noticed that I very rarely
scroll to the bottom of my email on an iPhone and usually miss out on
the oh-so-familiar unsubscribe directions.

As a matter of fact, gmail grabs whatever is hidden in the headers and
presents an unsubscribe button when someone clicks "show details" on
any message sent by this list.

So as several others have said on this thread which is now turning
into a giant waste of time and resources, the best solution is to
probably respond off-list to those who ask to be unsubscribed and
ignore the offending posts.

If we can improve the hit percentage by putting unsubscribe directions
at the top, then all the better.

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