Fwd: Date::Calc 6.x and Date::Pcalc 6.x

[Jonathan Yu]

Thoughts on this, all? I'm still pretty confused, but here's what I got from him:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: O. STeffen BEYer <ostbey@...>
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: Date::Calc 6.x and Date::Pcalc 6.x
To: Jonathan Yu <jawnsy@...>


Hi Jonathan,
and hi to everybody else who might also be concerned:

Hi Steffen:

I was upgrading the package for Date::Calc available in Debian
(libdate-calc-perl) recently and came across the following message in

your CHANGES.txt:
 +  United "Date::Calc" and "Date::Pcalc" into a single distribution

Similarly, there is an identical note in the CHANGES.txt for Pcalc as well.

What confuses me about this is that the packages still look to be


separate upstream, and my inference from your changelog entry was that
the packages should be merged (ie, Date::Calc also contains
date::Pcalc), which is not currently the case.

Would you mind elaborating on this further?



Thanks for releasing your work to the CPAN.

Cheers,

Jonathan

Answer:

Date::Calc 6.0: Just Date::Calc as it always used to be (C library plus XS wrapper plus PM modules), only with some updates (language is not a global anymore, new "normalized" mode)
Date::Pcalc 6.0: Just Date::Pcalc as it always used to be (pure-Perl version), complete rewrite based on Date::Calc 6.0

Date::Calc 6.1: contains Date::Calc 6.0 AND Date::Pcalc 6.0. Depending on availability of a C compiler and user choice, will install either of the two, INTO THE "Date::Calc" NAMESPACE.
Date::Pcalc 6.1: contains Date::Calc 6.0 AND Date::Pcalc 6.0. Depending on availability of a C compiler and user choice, will install either of the two, INTO THE "Date::Pcalc" NAMESPACE.
(This allows to upgrade existing Date::Pcalc installations to a faster C/XS version without any changes to existing code)

So Date::Calc 6.1 and Date::Pcalc 6.1 are indeed "merged" - they're just two slightly differently flavoured embodiments of the same "merge"

Installing both allows to test e.g. on a machine with C compiler the code that is being developed for a machine without.
It is also meant to give users more choice as to which upgrade path they prefer.

Date::Calc 6.2 is essentially the same as Date::Calc 6.1, but without the C/XS part (it will now always install a pure-Perl version, Date::Calc::PP), the C/XS part has been "outsourced" in Date::Calc::XS 6.2
Date::Calc 6.2 is now a wrapper which tries to load Date::Calc::XS 6.2, if available, and failing that, defaults to Date::Calc::PP.

Does that make it clearer?

Sorry for the confusion!

Best regards,
Steffen

[Guy Hulbert]

On Mon, 2009-19-10 at 09:00 -0400, Jonathan Yu wrote:
> Thoughts on this, all? I'm still pretty confused, but here's what I
> got from him:

I read it and it all seems quite straightforward, if a bit complicated
along the way.

He's made two architectural changes from 6.0 to 6.2.

It seems to me that you just want to use 6.2 and forget about the rest.
Debian has a C compiler so you should make a single package including
both pieces.

At least, that's what I got out of it.

--
--gh



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-perl-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[Jonathan Yu]

>From what I've read, it means both modules are now the same, except
the namespaces they use are different. I'm not sure if stuff depends
on Pcalc directly vs Date::Calc... but from what he said:

Date::Calc 6.1: contains Date::Calc 6.0 AND Date::Pcalc 6.0. Depending
on availability of a C compiler and user choice, will install either
of the two, INTO THE "Date::Calc" NAMESPACE.
Date::Pcalc 6.1: contains Date::Calc 6.0 AND Date::Pcalc 6.0.
Depending on availability of a C compiler and user choice, will
install either of the two, INTO THE "Date::Pcalc" NAMESPACE.
(This allows to upgrade existing Date::Pcalc installations to a faster
C/XS version without any changes to existing code)

So basically depending which 6.1 package we use (Date::Calc vs
Date::Pcalc), you get the exact same code under a different namespace.

Now, we've got the most recent Pcalc available already uploaded, as
far as I know. This means it's probably unnecessary to upload
Date::Calc, since they are functionally the same (short of a namespace
change).

It pains me to say this, but maybe we can create a native package
under Date::Calc which will just present the Date::Pcalc stuff under
the Date::Calc namespace, in order to maintain compatibility (where
something requires Date::Calc vs Date::Pcalc).

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Guy Hulbert <gwhulbert@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-19-10 at 09:00 -0400, Jonathan Yu wrote:
>> Thoughts on this, all? I'm still pretty confused, but here's what I
>> got from him:
>
> I read it and it all seems quite straightforward, if a bit complicated
> along the way.
>
> He's made two architectural changes from 6.0 to 6.2.
>
> It seems to me that you just want to use 6.2 and forget about the rest.
> Debian has a C compiler so you should make a single package including
> both pieces.
>
> At least, that's what I got out of it.
>
> --
> --gh
>
>
>

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-perl-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[Guy Hulbert]

On Mon, 2009-19-10 at 09:37 -0400, Jonathan Yu wrote:
> From what I've read, it means both modules are now the same, except

You inserted his statements about 6.0 and 6.1.

> the namespaces they use are different

Ignore those and look only at 6.2.  He said[*]:

==
Date::Calc 6.2 is now a wrapper which tries to load Date::Calc::XS 6.2,
if available, and failing that, defaults to Date::Calc::PP.
==

There's finally only one namespace: Date::Calc

Unless you *have* to support the old versions, just ditch them.

[*] I delete most list mail ... had to cut-and-paste from the archive.

--
--gh



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-perl-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[Jonathan Yu]

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Guy Hulbert <gwhulbert@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-19-10 at 09:37 -0400, Jonathan Yu wrote:
>> From what I've read, it means both modules are now the same, except
>
> You inserted his statements about 6.0 and 6.1.
>
>> the namespaces they use are different
>
> Ignore those and look only at 6.2.  He said[*]:
>
> ==
> Date::Calc 6.2 is now a wrapper which tries to load Date::Calc::XS 6.2,
> if available, and failing that, defaults to Date::Calc::PP.
> ==
>
> There's finally only one namespace: Date::Calc
>
> Unless you *have* to support the old versions, just ditch them.

Unfortunately, libdate-pcalc-perl has a few reverse dependencies:

aven'jon(~)> apt-cache rdepends libdate-pcalc-perl
libdate-pcalc-perl
Reverse Depends:
  otrs2
  otrs2
  otrs2
  libopensrs-perl

I don't want to support duplicate code (as it effectively doubles the
work of upgrading things), but at the same time, those old packages
need something to use.

We could, alternatively, just patch libopensrs-perl and otrs2 to use
the new (proper) libdate-calc-perl (possibly: libdate-calc-perl |
libdate-calc-xs-perl)
>
> [*] I delete most list mail ... had to cut-and-paste from the archive.
>
> --
> --gh
>
>
>


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-perl-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[Guy Hulbert]

On Mon, 2009-19-10 at 12:42 -0400, Jonathan Yu wrote:

> > There's finally only one namespace: Date::Calc
> >
> > Unless you *have* to support the old versions, just ditch them.
> Unfortunately, libdate-pcalc-perl has a few reverse dependencies:
>
> aven'jon(~)> apt-cache rdepends libdate-pcalc-perl
> libdate-pcalc-perl
> Reverse Depends:
>   otrs2
>   otrs2
>   otrs2
>   libopensrs-perl
>
> I don't want to support duplicate code (as it effectively doubles the
> work of upgrading things), but at the same time, those old packages
> need something to use.
>
> We could, alternatively, just patch libopensrs-perl and otrs2 to use
> the new (proper) libdate-calc-perl (possibly: libdate-calc-perl |
> libdate-calc-xs-perl)

That seems more sensible to me.  As long as Date::Calc is done changing.

--
--gh



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-perl-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...