Fwd: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

[hreeves]

Forwarding to some of the more functionally focused groups...


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Luke Fernandez" <luke.fernandez@...>
To: "Clay Fenlason" <clay.fenlason@...>
Cc: sakai-dev@...
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:56:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Procedural and release issues aside (which may mean this thread should
move over into the user's dg), the wiki seems like it could become a
core tool for building learning modules.  There appear to be hints of
this in John Norman's comment in "Moodle vs. Sakai"

http://scrivel.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/moodle-vs-sakai/

My understanding is that Melete offers some of these course authoring
features  but curiously the Wiki can do some of this course authoring
as well.  And since it's bundled in the main Sakai distribution it's
likely that it will be used this way when Melete is absent from a
deployment (as it is at our school).

Given the way we're using it, it would be great if one could drop in
links not only to resources but to assignments and quizzes as well.
If it had those features, it would be well on it's way to being a full
fledged course authoring tool.  I'm wondering if other schools see the
same course authoring potentials in the Wiki and whether anything is
being done along these lines on the development level?

Cheers,

Luke
http://itintheuniversity.blogspot.com/









On Feb 11, 2008 12:17 PM, Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...> wrote:

> I will say that we are currently using the WYSIWYG editor in
> production with 2.4.x, and we do like it, but we had to merge in the
> patch and do the testing to make that happen.  As Stephen says, the
> community process is that someone needs to come forward to maintain a
> post-2.5 branch for rwiki.  It calls for some resource commitment and
> an acceptance of risk which the standard releases cannot afford.
>
> Harriet wrote:
> > do most of our users really want to use a wiki?
> > Is what they actually want some sort of easy
> > HTML page creation tool?
>
> Our users want to be able to edit pages without knowing either HTML or
> very much markup, along with collaborative editing, versioning,
> commenting, document history, etc.  We don't have to call it a wiki,
> but by the time you have all that you might as well.
>
> ~Clay
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2008 1:24 PM, Stephen Marquard <stephen.marquard@...> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There's a process for getting cutting-edge features available in a usable form, which is to create, QA and maintain a post-2.5 branch.
> >
> > It's too late to add new features into 2.5.0 and by extension the 2-5-x branch.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Stephen
> >
> > Stephen Marquard, Learning Technologies Co-ordinator
> > Centre for Educational Technology, University of Cape Town
> > http://www.cet.uct.ac.za ( http://www.cet.uct.ac.za/ )
> > Email/IM/XMPP: stephen.marquard@...
> > Phone: [phone] Cell: [phone]
> >
> >
> > >>> <harriet@...> 2008/02/11 07:55 PM >>>
> >
> > I'm obviously not against this feature, but how much testing has it had? Would
> > it have a negative impact on quality of 2.5 wiki? It may have had vast amounts
> > of testing, but I know that it hasn't had any from me.
> >
> > Also, just a couple of little reminders
> >
> > - you still see the standard wiki editing view when you click 'edit', and then
> > click on another tab to get to the HTML editing view. It can't work the other
> > way round.
> > - it's not mentioned in the documentation
> >
> > Also, a third niggle
> >
> > - should a question to Sakai Dev be the way to get extra features into a
> > release?
> >
> > Harriet
> >
> >
> > Quoting Christopher Gray <Christopher.Gray@...>:
> >
> > > We would like to have that feature very much.
> > >
> > > +1 for NAU.
> > >
> > > -Chris
> > >
> > > Shane Nuessler wrote:
> > > > Dear Sakai-dev community,
> > > >
> > > > At the ANU we believe our users would have a much lower barrier to
> > > > adoption of the wiki tool if it had a WYSIWYG editor mode.
> > > >
> > > > This feature has been developed for the wiki but it won't be part of
> > > > the wiki in 2.5.0 release, which is due out the week of the 18th
> > > > officially.
> > > >
> > > > We wanted to find out how many people have the WYSIWYG editing mode as
> > > > a highly desirable for a 2.5.x release.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Shane.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------
> > > > Mr Shane Nuessler
> > > > Educational Technologist
> > > > Information Services Support
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phone:  58193  (6125 8193)
> > > > Email:
> > > > shane.nuessler@...
> > > >
> > > > Address:
> > > > Information and Communication Technology, Information Services Support,
> > > > Division of Information
> > > > Building 2,
> > > > R G Menzies Building
> > > > The Australian National University
> > > > ACT 0200 Australia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 18987 bytes]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Attachments:
> > > >
> > > > message0.html
> > > >
> > >
> > https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5f976eff-cb12-491a-0085-cc7e8b4ce2da/message0.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> > > > (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
> > > > (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> > > > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
> > > > Preferences.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Christopher Gray
> > > Academic Computing Team Lead
> > > Online Learning Environments
> > > Northern Arizona University
> > >
> > > Email: Christopher.Gray@...
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> > > (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a.
> > > sakai-dev) site.
> > > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
> >
> > ----------------------
> > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
> >
> > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 4864 bytes]
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > message0.html
> > https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5bd519c4-4dd6-4a67-0037-792720d51ba4/message0.html
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Clay Fenlason
> Director, Educational Technology
> Georgia Institute of Technology
> [phone]
>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
>
>

--
Continuing Education
Weber State University

----------------------
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--
Hannah Reeves
The rSmart Group
hreeves@...
[phone]
ICQ 339619212

----------------------
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[Plourde, Mathieu]

Hi all!

I totally agree that the wiki could become a useful authoring tool if we had a WYSIWYG editor. And I also totally agree to the idea that the wiki should be able to link to other stuff outside Resources, especially assignments.

The problem we might have with the wiki is the fact that it is very limited in terms of formatting. It's built this way to keep the markup language easy.

If this "linking to other tools" features would be available in a Webpage tool (that would accept HTML and Javacript), then we would be in business. Add a couple of web templates there and you've solved a lot of problems. Ask our fluid folks to make it drag and drop afterwards ;-)

This Webpage tool would be pretty similar to the Content tool in WebCT, which we find still have some major advantages over HTML development tools in Sakai... We have a hard time explaining to our faculty that Sakai has parity with WebCT on this point, 'cause it doesn't.

Best Regards,

=========================

Mathieu Plourde, MBA
Instructional Designer
IT-User Services
University of Delaware
021 Smith Hall
Newark, DE 19716

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
mathieu@...
http://copland.udel.edu/~mathieu/

=========================

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UU     U
UU     U
UU DDDDDDDD
UU  DD U   DD
UU UDU     DD
DD      DD
DD      DD
DD     DD
DDDDDDDD


-----Original Message-----
From: Hannah Reeves [mailto:hreeves@...]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:53 PM
To: sakai-dg-ui; pedagogy
Subject: Fwd: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Forwarding to some of the more functionally focused groups...


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Luke Fernandez" <luke.fernandez@...>
To: "Clay Fenlason" <clay.fenlason@...>
Cc: sakai-dev@...
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:56:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Procedural and release issues aside (which may mean this thread should
move over into the user's dg), the wiki seems like it could become a
core tool for building learning modules.  There appear to be hints of
this in John Norman's comment in "Moodle vs. Sakai"

http://scrivel.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/moodle-vs-sakai/

My understanding is that Melete offers some of these course authoring
features  but curiously the Wiki can do some of this course authoring
as well.  And since it's bundled in the main Sakai distribution it's
likely that it will be used this way when Melete is absent from a
deployment (as it is at our school).

Given the way we're using it, it would be great if one could drop in
links not only to resources but to assignments and quizzes as well.
If it had those features, it would be well on it's way to being a full
fledged course authoring tool.  I'm wondering if other schools see the
same course authoring potentials in the Wiki and whether anything is
being done along these lines on the development level?

Cheers,

Luke
http://itintheuniversity.blogspot.com/









On Feb 11, 2008 12:17 PM, Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...> wrote:

> I will say that we are currently using the WYSIWYG editor in
> production with 2.4.x, and we do like it, but we had to merge in the
> patch and do the testing to make that happen.  As Stephen says, the
> community process is that someone needs to come forward to maintain a
> post-2.5 branch for rwiki.  It calls for some resource commitment and
> an acceptance of risk which the standard releases cannot afford.
>
> Harriet wrote:
> > do most of our users really want to use a wiki?
> > Is what they actually want some sort of easy
> > HTML page creation tool?
>
> Our users want to be able to edit pages without knowing either HTML or
> very much markup, along with collaborative editing, versioning,
> commenting, document history, etc.  We don't have to call it a wiki,
> but by the time you have all that you might as well.
>
> ~Clay
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2008 1:24 PM, Stephen Marquard <stephen.marquard@...> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There's a process for getting cutting-edge features available in a usable form, which is to create, QA and maintain a post-2.5 branch.
> >
> > It's too late to add new features into 2.5.0 and by extension the 2-5-x branch.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Stephen
> >
> > Stephen Marquard, Learning Technologies Co-ordinator
> > Centre for Educational Technology, University of Cape Town
> > http://www.cet.uct.ac.za ( http://www.cet.uct.ac.za/ )
> > Email/IM/XMPP: stephen.marquard@...
> > Phone: [phone] Cell: [phone]
> >
> >
> > >>> <harriet@...> 2008/02/11 07:55 PM >>>
> >
> > I'm obviously not against this feature, but how much testing has it had? Would
> > it have a negative impact on quality of 2.5 wiki? It may have had vast amounts
> > of testing, but I know that it hasn't had any from me.
> >
> > Also, just a couple of little reminders
> >
> > - you still see the standard wiki editing view when you click 'edit', and then
> > click on another tab to get to the HTML editing view. It can't work the other
> > way round.
> > - it's not mentioned in the documentation
> >
> > Also, a third niggle
> >
> > - should a question to Sakai Dev be the way to get extra features into a
> > release?
> >
> > Harriet
> >
> >
> > Quoting Christopher Gray <Christopher.Gray@...>:
> >
> > > We would like to have that feature very much.
> > >
> > > +1 for NAU.
> > >
> > > -Chris
> > >
> > > Shane Nuessler wrote:
> > > > Dear Sakai-dev community,
> > > >
> > > > At the ANU we believe our users would have a much lower barrier to
> > > > adoption of the wiki tool if it had a WYSIWYG editor mode.
> > > >
> > > > This feature has been developed for the wiki but it won't be part of
> > > > the wiki in 2.5.0 release, which is due out the week of the 18th
> > > > officially.
> > > >
> > > > We wanted to find out how many people have the WYSIWYG editing mode as
> > > > a highly desirable for a 2.5.x release.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Shane.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------
> > > > Mr Shane Nuessler
> > > > Educational Technologist
> > > > Information Services Support
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phone:  58193  (6125 8193)
> > > > Email:
> > > > shane.nuessler@...
> > > >
> > > > Address:
> > > > Information and Communication Technology, Information Services Support,
> > > > Division of Information
> > > > Building 2,
> > > > R G Menzies Building
> > > > The Australian National University
> > > > ACT 0200 Australia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 18987 bytes]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Attachments:
> > > >
> > > > message0.html
> > > >
> > >
> > https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5f976eff-cb12-491a-0085-cc7e8b4ce2da/message0.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> > > > (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
> > > > (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> > > > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
> > > > Preferences.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Christopher Gray
> > > Academic Computing Team Lead
> > > Online Learning Environments
> > > Northern Arizona University
> > >
> > > Email: Christopher.Gray@...
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> > > (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a.
> > > sakai-dev) site.
> > > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
> >
> > ----------------------
> > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
> >
> > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 4864 bytes]
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > message0.html
> > https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5bd519c4-4dd6-4a67-0037-792720d51ba4/message0.html
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Clay Fenlason
> Director, Educational Technology
> Georgia Institute of Technology
> [phone]
>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
>
>

--
Continuing Education
Weber State University

----------------------
This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.




--
Hannah Reeves
The rSmart Group
hreeves@...
[phone]
ICQ 339619212

----------------------
This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Teaching & Learning site.
You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.


----------------------
This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Teaching & Learning site.
You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.

[Josh Baron]

Just want to second Mathieu's comments and add that although I agree that
a WYSIWYG editor with the ability to link to other course "content" (such
as assignments, etc.) would be great and fill a bit "need" at Marist, I
would be hesitant to label this as rich (my word, not others) content
authoring tool as I think there are important elements to such a tool
(e.g. workflow, scheduling releases of content, etc.) that would not
necessarily be found in an enhanced wiki tool.  This said, I want to again
stress that such enhancements would be great and would increase faculty
and student use sigificantly.

I would also just like to note that I see a whole wide range of uses for
the Wiki in courses, both by the instructor and by students.  If we were
to create a wiki-tool that faculty began to use as a content authoring
system, it would create problems potentially in deplying the wiki for
other uses.  For example, if I'm an instructor and I'm using the wiki for
my course content I may not way to give students access to write to the
wiki.  On the other hand, I may have a big final project in which I want
the students to use the wiki to develop their reports.  Unless I am
mistaken, I don't think you can deploy the wiki tool "twice" in one course
site.

Just some thoughts...

Josh

-----------------------------
Joshua Baron
Director, Academic Technology and eLearning
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York  12601
[phone] (work)



"Plourde, Mathieu" <mathieu@...>
02/11/2008 05:12 PM

To
sakai-dg-ui <sakai-dg-ui@...>, pedagogy
<pedagogy@...>, "'sakai-dev@...'"
<sakai-dev@...>
cc

Subject
RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.






Hi all!

I totally agree that the wiki could become a useful authoring tool if we
had a WYSIWYG editor. And I also totally agree to the idea that the wiki
should be able to link to other stuff outside Resources, especially
assignments.

The problem we might have with the wiki is the fact that it is very
limited in terms of formatting. It's built this way to keep the markup
language easy.

If this "linking to other tools" features would be available in a Webpage
tool (that would accept HTML and Javacript), then we would be in business.
Add a couple of web templates there and you've solved a lot of problems.
Ask our fluid folks to make it drag and drop afterwards ;-)

This Webpage tool would be pretty similar to the Content tool in WebCT,
which we find still have some major advantages over HTML development tools
in Sakai... We have a hard time explaining to our faculty that Sakai has
parity with WebCT on this point, 'cause it doesn't.

Best Regards,

=========================

Mathieu Plourde, MBA
Instructional Designer
IT-User Services
University of Delaware
021 Smith Hall
Newark, DE 19716

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
mathieu@...
http://copland.udel.edu/~mathieu/

=========================

UUUU   UUU
UU     U
UU     U
UU DDDDDDDD
UU  DD U   DD
UU UDU     DD
DD      DD
DD      DD
DD     DD
DDDDDDDD


-----Original Message-----
From: Hannah Reeves [mailto:hreeves@...]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:53 PM
To: sakai-dg-ui; pedagogy
Subject: Fwd: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Forwarding to some of the more functionally focused groups...


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Luke Fernandez" <luke.fernandez@...>
To: "Clay Fenlason" <clay.fenlason@...>
Cc: sakai-dev@...
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:56:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Procedural and release issues aside (which may mean this thread should
move over into the user's dg), the wiki seems like it could become a
core tool for building learning modules.  There appear to be hints of
this in John Norman's comment in "Moodle vs. Sakai"

http://scrivel.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/moodle-vs-sakai/

My understanding is that Melete offers some of these course authoring
features  but curiously the Wiki can do some of this course authoring
as well.  And since it's bundled in the main Sakai distribution it's
likely that it will be used this way when Melete is absent from a
deployment (as it is at our school).

Given the way we're using it, it would be great if one could drop in
links not only to resources but to assignments and quizzes as well.
If it had those features, it would be well on it's way to being a full
fledged course authoring tool.  I'm wondering if other schools see the
same course authoring potentials in the Wiki and whether anything is
being done along these lines on the development level?

Cheers,

Luke
http://itintheuniversity.blogspot.com/









On Feb 11, 2008 12:17 PM, Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
wrote:

> I will say that we are currently using the WYSIWYG editor in
> production with 2.4.x, and we do like it, but we had to merge in the
> patch and do the testing to make that happen.  As Stephen says, the
> community process is that someone needs to come forward to maintain a
> post-2.5 branch for rwiki.  It calls for some resource commitment and
> an acceptance of risk which the standard releases cannot afford.
>
> Harriet wrote:
> > do most of our users really want to use a wiki?
> > Is what they actually want some sort of easy
> > HTML page creation tool?
>
> Our users want to be able to edit pages without knowing either HTML or
> very much markup, along with collaborative editing, versioning,
> commenting, document history, etc.  We don't have to call it a wiki,
> but by the time you have all that you might as well.
>
> ~Clay
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2008 1:24 PM, Stephen Marquard <stephen.marquard@...>

wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There's a process for getting cutting-edge features available in a
usable form, which is to create, QA and maintain a post-2.5 branch.
> >
> > It's too late to add new features into 2.5.0 and by extension the
2-5-x branch.

> >
> > Cheers
> > Stephen
> >
> > Stephen Marquard, Learning Technologies Co-ordinator
> > Centre for Educational Technology, University of Cape Town
> > http://www.cet.uct.ac.za ( http://www.cet.uct.ac.za/ )
> > Email/IM/XMPP: stephen.marquard@...
> > Phone: [phone] Cell: [phone]
> >
> >
> > >>> <harriet@...> 2008/02/11 07:55 PM >>>
> >
> > I'm obviously not against this feature, but how much testing has it

had? Would
> > it have a negative impact on quality of 2.5 wiki? It may have had vast
amounts
> > of testing, but I know that it hasn't had any from me.
> >
> > Also, just a couple of little reminders
> >
> > - you still see the standard wiki editing view when you click 'edit',
and then
> > click on another tab to get to the HTML editing view. It can't work
the other
> > way round.
> > - it's not mentioned in the documentation
> >
> > Also, a third niggle
> >
> > - should a question to Sakai Dev be the way to get extra features into
a

> > release?
> >
> > Harriet
> >
> >
> > Quoting Christopher Gray <Christopher.Gray@...>:
> >
> > > We would like to have that feature very much.
> > >
> > > +1 for NAU.
> > >
> > > -Chris
> > >
> > > Shane Nuessler wrote:
> > > > Dear Sakai-dev community,
> > > >
> > > > At the ANU we believe our users would have a much lower barrier to
> > > > adoption of the wiki tool if it had a WYSIWYG editor mode.
> > > >
> > > > This feature has been developed for the wiki but it won't be part

of
> > > > the wiki in 2.5.0 release, which is due out the week of the 18th
> > > > officially.
> > > >
> > > > We wanted to find out how many people have the WYSIWYG editing
mode as

> > > > a highly desirable for a 2.5.x release.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Shane.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------
> > > > Mr Shane Nuessler
> > > > Educational Technologist
> > > > Information Services Support
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phone:  58193  (6125 8193)
> > > > Email:
> > > > shane.nuessler@...
> > > >
> > > > Address:
> > > > Information and Communication Technology, Information Services

Support,

> > > > Division of Information
> > > > Building 2,
> > > > R G Menzies Building
> > > > The Australian National University
> > > > ACT 0200 Australia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 18987 bytes]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Attachments:
> > > >
> > > > message0.html
> > > >
> > >
> >

https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5f976eff-cb12-491a-0085-cc7e8b4ce2da/message0.html

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> > > > (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
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> > > > You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
> > > > Preferences.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Christopher Gray
> > > Academic Computing Team Lead
> > > Online Learning Environments
> > > Northern Arizona University
> > >
> > > Email: Christopher.Gray@...
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
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Preferences.

> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
> >
> > ----------------------
> > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (

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Preferences.
> >
> > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 4864 bytes]
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > message0.html
> >
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5bd519c4-4dd6-4a67-0037-792720d51ba4/message0.html

> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Clay Fenlason
> Director, Educational Technology
> Georgia Institute of Technology
> [phone]
>
>
> ----------------------
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>
>



--
Continuing Education
Weber State University

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--
Hannah Reeves
The rSmart Group
hreeves@...
[phone]
ICQ 339619212

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[Ian Boston-2]

Josh,
you can :)

With the sites admin tool.

Each wiki page has a global name that you can use to reference it.

Each wiki tool added to a worksite is configured with its home page  
as a wiki page.

Think of wiki space like a global filing system of all wiki pages in  
a Sakai instance.

If you create a wiki link with a / in a new sub folder or sub space  
is created... eg

[lab_experiment12/]

will create a new wiki space called lab_experiment12 with its own  
Home page (and all the other default pages).

You will see the full global name of the page on the info tab in the  
wiki tool.

----

When a wiki tool is added to a site it connects to the home page of  
the default wiki space for that site.

You can configure a wiki tool in a worksite to point to any other  
wiki space (using its global name). it doesnt even have to be in the  
same site, but check permissions so that your students can at least  
read the pages that are there.

So you can add as many as you like, each pointing to different wiki  
spaces.

you just need to change the home-page configuration setting to the  
global name of the page you want the wiki to start at

use Admin Workspace -> Sites -> select site -> pages -> select page -
> tools -> edit wiki

Scroll down and edit the home-page settings



I hope that makes sense.

btw, this will probably bounce from some of these groups.
Ian



On 11 Feb 2008, at 22:33, Josh Baron wrote:

>  Unless I am
> mistaken, I don't think you can deploy the wiki tool "twice" in one  
> course
> site.

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[Ken Masters]

Hi All

I would welcome a properly functioning WYSIWYG editor for the Wiki.  It's my major stumbling block when I introduce users to the wiki.  When _I_ was first introduced to wikis, I was told "You can build collaborative web pages without any coding."  And I've heard it repeated many times since.  The collaborative part is fine - the rest is just so WRONG.  (In fact, in the words of Pauli, it's not even wrong).  All that changed was that, instead using the familiar HTML code, I had to learn a new code, which was far less intuitive than most codes I've seen.  Even the old Wordstar codes (now I'm showing my age) were more user-friendly.

Ken

---------------------------
Ken Masters
IT Health Education
http://www.ithealthed.com
____/\/********\/\____

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
> From: Josh Baron <Josh.Baron@...>
> Date: Tue, February 12, 2008 12:33 am
> To: "Plourde,  Mathieu" <mathieu@...>
> Cc: pedagogy <pedagogy@...>,
> "'sakai-dev@...'"
> <sakai-dev@...>,  sakai-dg-ui
> <sakai-dg-ui@...>
>
> Just want to second Mathieu's comments and add that although I agree that
> a WYSIWYG editor with the ability to link to other course "content" (such
> as assignments, etc.) would be great and fill a bit "need" at Marist, I
> would be hesitant to label this as rich (my word, not others) content
> authoring tool as I think there are important elements to such a tool
> (e.g. workflow, scheduling releases of content, etc.) that would not
> necessarily be found in an enhanced wiki tool.  This said, I want to again
> stress that such enhancements would be great and would increase faculty
> and student use sigificantly.
>
> I would also just like to note that I see a whole wide range of uses for
> the Wiki in courses, both by the instructor and by students.  If we were
> to create a wiki-tool that faculty began to use as a content authoring
> system, it would create problems potentially in deplying the wiki for
> other uses.  For example, if I'm an instructor and I'm using the wiki for
> my course content I may not way to give students access to write to the
> wiki.  On the other hand, I may have a big final project in which I want
> the students to use the wiki to develop their reports.  Unless I am
> mistaken, I don't think you can deploy the wiki tool "twice" in one course
> site.
>
> Just some thoughts...
>
> Josh
>
> -----------------------------
> Joshua Baron
> Director, Academic Technology and eLearning
> Marist College
> Poughkeepsie, New York  12601
> [phone] (work)
>
>
>
> "Plourde, Mathieu" <mathieu@...>
> 02/11/2008 05:12 PM
>
> To
> sakai-dg-ui <sakai-dg-ui@...>, pedagogy
> <pedagogy@...>, "'sakai-dev@...'"
> <sakai-dev@...>
> cc
>
> Subject
> RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi all!
>
> I totally agree that the wiki could become a useful authoring tool if we
> had a WYSIWYG editor. And I also totally agree to the idea that the wiki
> should be able to link to other stuff outside Resources, especially
> assignments.
>
> The problem we might have with the wiki is the fact that it is very
> limited in terms of formatting. It's built this way to keep the markup
> language easy.
>
> If this "linking to other tools" features would be available in a Webpage
> tool (that would accept HTML and Javacript), then we would be in business.
> Add a couple of web templates there and you've solved a lot of problems.
> Ask our fluid folks to make it drag and drop afterwards ;-)
>
> This Webpage tool would be pretty similar to the Content tool in WebCT,
> which we find still have some major advantages over HTML development tools
> in Sakai... We have a hard time explaining to our faculty that Sakai has
> parity with WebCT on this point, 'cause it doesn't.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> =========================
>
> Mathieu Plourde, MBA
> Instructional Designer
> IT-User Services
> University of Delaware
> 021 Smith Hall
> Newark, DE 19716
>
> Phone: [phone]
> Fax: [phone]
> mathieu@...
> http://copland.udel.edu/~mathieu/
>
> =========================
>
> UUUU   UUU
> UU     U
> UU     U
> UU DDDDDDDD
> UU  DD U   DD
> UU UDU     DD
> DD      DD
> DD      DD
> DD     DD
> DDDDDDDD
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah Reeves [mailto:hreeves@...]
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:53 PM
> To: sakai-dg-ui; pedagogy
> Subject: Fwd: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> Forwarding to some of the more functionally focused groups...
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Luke Fernandez" <luke.fernandez@...>
> To: "Clay Fenlason" <clay.fenlason@...>
> Cc: sakai-dev@...
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:56:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> Procedural and release issues aside (which may mean this thread should
> move over into the user's dg), the wiki seems like it could become a
> core tool for building learning modules.  There appear to be hints of
> this in John Norman's comment in "Moodle vs. Sakai"
>
> http://scrivel.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/moodle-vs-sakai/
>
> My understanding is that Melete offers some of these course authoring
> features  but curiously the Wiki can do some of this course authoring
> as well.  And since it's bundled in the main Sakai distribution it's
> likely that it will be used this way when Melete is absent from a
> deployment (as it is at our school).
>
> Given the way we're using it, it would be great if one could drop in
> links not only to resources but to assignments and quizzes as well.
> If it had those features, it would be well on it's way to being a full
> fledged course authoring tool.  I'm wondering if other schools see the
> same course authoring potentials in the Wiki and whether anything is
> being done along these lines on the development level?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Luke
> http://itintheuniversity.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2008 12:17 PM, Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
> wrote:
> > I will say that we are currently using the WYSIWYG editor in
> > production with 2.4.x, and we do like it, but we had to merge in the
> > patch and do the testing to make that happen.  As Stephen says, the
> > community process is that someone needs to come forward to maintain a
> > post-2.5 branch for rwiki.  It calls for some resource commitment and
> > an acceptance of risk which the standard releases cannot afford.
> >
> > Harriet wrote:
> > > do most of our users really want to use a wiki?
> > > Is what they actually want some sort of easy
> > > HTML page creation tool?
> >
> > Our users want to be able to edit pages without knowing either HTML or
> > very much markup, along with collaborative editing, versioning,
> > commenting, document history, etc.  We don't have to call it a wiki,
> > but by the time you have all that you might as well.
> >
> > ~Clay
> >
> >
> > On Feb 11, 2008 1:24 PM, Stephen Marquard <stephen.marquard@...>
> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > There's a process for getting cutting-edge features available in a
> usable form, which is to create, QA and maintain a post-2.5 branch.
> > >
> > > It's too late to add new features into 2.5.0 and by extension the
> 2-5-x branch.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Stephen
> > >
> > > Stephen Marquard, Learning Technologies Co-ordinator
> > > Centre for Educational Technology, University of Cape Town
> > > http://www.cet.uct.ac.za ( http://www.cet.uct.ac.za/ )
> > > Email/IM/XMPP: stephen.marquard@...
> > > Phone: [phone] Cell: [phone]
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> <harriet@...> 2008/02/11 07:55 PM >>>
> > >
> > > I'm obviously not against this feature, but how much testing has it
> had? Would
> > > it have a negative impact on quality of 2.5 wiki? It may have had vast
> amounts
> > > of testing, but I know that it hasn't had any from me.
> > >
> > > Also, just a couple of little reminders
> > >
> > > - you still see the standard wiki editing view when you click 'edit',
> and then
> > > click on another tab to get to the HTML editing view. It can't work
> the other
> > > way round.
> > > - it's not mentioned in the documentation
> > >
> > > Also, a third niggle
> > >
> > > - should a question to Sakai Dev be the way to get extra features into
> a
> > > release?
> > >
> > > Harriet
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting Christopher Gray <Christopher.Gray@...>:
> > >
> > > > We would like to have that feature very much.
> > > >
> > > > +1 for NAU.
> > > >
> > > > -Chris
> > > >
> > > > Shane Nuessler wrote:
> > > > > Dear Sakai-dev community,
> > > > >
> > > > > At the ANU we believe our users would have a much lower barrier to
> > > > > adoption of the wiki tool if it had a WYSIWYG editor mode.
> > > > >
> > > > > This feature has been developed for the wiki but it won't be part
> of
> > > > > the wiki in 2.5.0 release, which is due out the week of the 18th
> > > > > officially.
> > > > >
> > > > > We wanted to find out how many people have the WYSIWYG editing
> mode as
> > > > > a highly desirable for a 2.5.x release.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Shane.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------
> > > > > Mr Shane Nuessler
> > > > > Educational Technologist
> > > > > Information Services Support
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Phone:  58193  (6125 8193)
> > > > > Email:
> > > > > shane.nuessler@...
> > > > >
> > > > > Address:
> > > > > Information and Communication Technology, Information Services
> Support,
> > > > > Division of Information
> > > > > Building 2,
> > > > > R G Menzies Building
> > > > > The Australian National University
> > > > > ACT 0200 Australia
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 18987 bytes]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Attachments:
> > > > >
> > > > > message0.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5f976eff-cb12-491a-0085-cc7e8b4ce2da/message0.html
>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------
> > > > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
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> > > > > Preferences.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Christopher Gray
> > > > Academic Computing Team Lead
> > > > Online Learning Environments
> > > > Northern Arizona University
> > > >
> > > > Email: Christopher.Gray@...
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (
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> > >
> > > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 4864 bytes]
> > >
> > >
> > > Attachments:
> > >
> > > message0.html
> > >
> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5bd519c4-4dd6-4a67-0037-792720d51ba4/message0.html
>
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (
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> sakai-dev) site.
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> Preferences.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Clay Fenlason
> > Director, Educational Technology
> > Georgia Institute of Technology
> > [phone]
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (
> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development (a.k.a.
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> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Continuing Education
> Weber State University
>
> ----------------------
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Hannah Reeves
> The rSmart Group
> hreeves@...
> [phone]
> ICQ 339619212
>
> ----------------------
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> [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 15819 bytes]
>
>
> Attachments:
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> message0.html
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[Lynn Ward]

You can't deploy the wiki twice in a single site as far as I know, but you can control permissions on a per page basis.  Thus, you could set up a group of pages for course content that isn't editable by students and another group that is.  BTW, we have the WYSIWYG version of the wiki tool running on a test server.  You still need to use wiki markup to create links to other pages in the wiki, but it's still a big improvement over the current version.



==========================
Lynn Ward
Instructional Design Consultant
Center for Teaching and Learning
Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis
University Library, Room 1125
755 West Michigan Street, Indianapolis, IN 46202-5195
Phone: [phone]  Fax: [phone]
E-mail: leward@...  Web: http://ctl.iupui.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Baron [mailto:Josh.Baron@...]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:34 PM
To: Plourde, Mathieu
Cc: pedagogy; 'sakai-dev@...'; sakai-dg-ui
Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Just want to second Mathieu's comments and add that although I agree that
a WYSIWYG editor with the ability to link to other course "content" (such
as assignments, etc.) would be great and fill a bit "need" at Marist, I
would be hesitant to label this as rich (my word, not others) content
authoring tool as I think there are important elements to such a tool
(e.g. workflow, scheduling releases of content, etc.) that would not
necessarily be found in an enhanced wiki tool.  This said, I want to again
stress that such enhancements would be great and would increase faculty
and student use sigificantly.

I would also just like to note that I see a whole wide range of uses for
the Wiki in courses, both by the instructor and by students.  If we were
to create a wiki-tool that faculty began to use as a content authoring
system, it would create problems potentially in deplying the wiki for
other uses.  For example, if I'm an instructor and I'm using the wiki for
my course content I may not way to give students access to write to the
wiki.  On the other hand, I may have a big final project in which I want
the students to use the wiki to develop their reports.  Unless I am
mistaken, I don't think you can deploy the wiki tool "twice" in one course
site.

Just some thoughts...

Josh

-----------------------------
Joshua Baron
Director, Academic Technology and eLearning
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York  12601
[phone] (work)



"Plourde, Mathieu" <mathieu@...>
02/11/2008 05:12 PM

To
sakai-dg-ui <sakai-dg-ui@...>, pedagogy
<pedagogy@...>, "'sakai-dev@...'"
<sakai-dev@...>
cc

Subject
RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.






Hi all!

I totally agree that the wiki could become a useful authoring tool if we
had a WYSIWYG editor. And I also totally agree to the idea that the wiki
should be able to link to other stuff outside Resources, especially
assignments.

The problem we might have with the wiki is the fact that it is very
limited in terms of formatting. It's built this way to keep the markup
language easy.

If this "linking to other tools" features would be available in a Webpage
tool (that would accept HTML and Javacript), then we would be in business.
Add a couple of web templates there and you've solved a lot of problems.
Ask our fluid folks to make it drag and drop afterwards ;-)

This Webpage tool would be pretty similar to the Content tool in WebCT,
which we find still have some major advantages over HTML development tools
in Sakai... We have a hard time explaining to our faculty that Sakai has
parity with WebCT on this point, 'cause it doesn't.

Best Regards,

=========================

Mathieu Plourde, MBA
Instructional Designer
IT-User Services
University of Delaware
021 Smith Hall
Newark, DE 19716

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
mathieu@...
http://copland.udel.edu/~mathieu/

=========================

UUUU   UUU
UU     U
UU     U
UU DDDDDDDD
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-----Original Message-----
From: Hannah Reeves [mailto:hreeves@...]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:53 PM
To: sakai-dg-ui; pedagogy
Subject: Fwd: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Forwarding to some of the more functionally focused groups...


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Luke Fernandez" <luke.fernandez@...>
To: "Clay Fenlason" <clay.fenlason@...>
Cc: sakai-dev@...
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:56:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Procedural and release issues aside (which may mean this thread should
move over into the user's dg), the wiki seems like it could become a
core tool for building learning modules.  There appear to be hints of
this in John Norman's comment in "Moodle vs. Sakai"

http://scrivel.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/moodle-vs-sakai/

My understanding is that Melete offers some of these course authoring
features  but curiously the Wiki can do some of this course authoring
as well.  And since it's bundled in the main Sakai distribution it's
likely that it will be used this way when Melete is absent from a
deployment (as it is at our school).

Given the way we're using it, it would be great if one could drop in
links not only to resources but to assignments and quizzes as well.
If it had those features, it would be well on it's way to being a full
fledged course authoring tool.  I'm wondering if other schools see the
same course authoring potentials in the Wiki and whether anything is
being done along these lines on the development level?

Cheers,

Luke
http://itintheuniversity.blogspot.com/









On Feb 11, 2008 12:17 PM, Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
wrote:

> I will say that we are currently using the WYSIWYG editor in
> production with 2.4.x, and we do like it, but we had to merge in the
> patch and do the testing to make that happen.  As Stephen says, the
> community process is that someone needs to come forward to maintain a
> post-2.5 branch for rwiki.  It calls for some resource commitment and
> an acceptance of risk which the standard releases cannot afford.
>
> Harriet wrote:
> > do most of our users really want to use a wiki?
> > Is what they actually want some sort of easy
> > HTML page creation tool?
>
> Our users want to be able to edit pages without knowing either HTML or
> very much markup, along with collaborative editing, versioning,
> commenting, document history, etc.  We don't have to call it a wiki,
> but by the time you have all that you might as well.
>
> ~Clay
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2008 1:24 PM, Stephen Marquard <stephen.marquard@...>

wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There's a process for getting cutting-edge features available in a
usable form, which is to create, QA and maintain a post-2.5 branch.
> >
> > It's too late to add new features into 2.5.0 and by extension the
2-5-x branch.

> >
> > Cheers
> > Stephen
> >
> > Stephen Marquard, Learning Technologies Co-ordinator
> > Centre for Educational Technology, University of Cape Town
> > http://www.cet.uct.ac.za ( http://www.cet.uct.ac.za/ )
> > Email/IM/XMPP: stephen.marquard@...
> > Phone: [phone] Cell: [phone]
> >
> >
> > >>> <harriet@...> 2008/02/11 07:55 PM >>>
> >
> > I'm obviously not against this feature, but how much testing has it

had? Would
> > it have a negative impact on quality of 2.5 wiki? It may have had vast
amounts
> > of testing, but I know that it hasn't had any from me.
> >
> > Also, just a couple of little reminders
> >
> > - you still see the standard wiki editing view when you click 'edit',
and then
> > click on another tab to get to the HTML editing view. It can't work
the other
> > way round.
> > - it's not mentioned in the documentation
> >
> > Also, a third niggle
> >
> > - should a question to Sakai Dev be the way to get extra features into
a

> > release?
> >
> > Harriet
> >
> >
> > Quoting Christopher Gray <Christopher.Gray@...>:
> >
> > > We would like to have that feature very much.
> > >
> > > +1 for NAU.
> > >
> > > -Chris
> > >
> > > Shane Nuessler wrote:
> > > > Dear Sakai-dev community,
> > > >
> > > > At the ANU we believe our users would have a much lower barrier to
> > > > adoption of the wiki tool if it had a WYSIWYG editor mode.
> > > >
> > > > This feature has been developed for the wiki but it won't be part

of
> > > > the wiki in 2.5.0 release, which is due out the week of the 18th
> > > > officially.
> > > >
> > > > We wanted to find out how many people have the WYSIWYG editing
mode as

> > > > a highly desirable for a 2.5.x release.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Shane.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------
> > > > Mr Shane Nuessler
> > > > Educational Technologist
> > > > Information Services Support
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phone:  58193  (6125 8193)
> > > > Email:
> > > > shane.nuessler@...
> > > >
> > > > Address:
> > > > Information and Communication Technology, Information Services

Support,

> > > > Division of Information
> > > > Building 2,
> > > > R G Menzies Building
> > > > The Australian National University
> > > > ACT 0200 Australia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 18987 bytes]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Attachments:
> > > >
> > > > message0.html
> > > >
> > >
> >

https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5f976eff-cb12-491a-0085-cc7e8b4ce2da/message0.html

> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Christopher Gray
> > > Academic Computing Team Lead
> > > Online Learning Environments
> > > Northern Arizona University
> > >
> > > Email: Christopher.Gray@...
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
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> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > ----------------------
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> >
> > [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 4864 bytes]
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > message0.html
> >
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/5bd519c4-4dd6-4a67-0037-792720d51ba4/message0.html

> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Clay Fenlason
> Director, Educational Technology
> Georgia Institute of Technology
> [phone]
>
>
> ----------------------
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>



--
Continuing Education
Weber State University

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--
Hannah Reeves
The rSmart Group
hreeves@...
[phone]
ICQ 339619212

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Attachments:

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[Harriet Truscott]

Well, no, actually Josh is right. You can't really have more than one wiki
in a site, although you can to some extent make it appear as though you have
multiple wikis in a site. All you are doing is setting a different home page
for the second wiki, so that its not obvious how to get to the pages in the
first wiki from the second wiki.

The crucial issue is that you can't have different permissions on the
'second' wiki, which stops easily you having one wiki which is student
editable and one wiki which is not. You probably can manage this, but by
changing the permissions individually on each page. This has discouraged our
users at Cambridge from having the one wiki which is for course notes and
one which is for student editing.

The search tool also searches 'both' wikis - since they are actually all the
same.

Harriet




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Centre for Applied Research in Educational Technologies
University of Cambridge
16 Mill Lane
Cambridge
01223 765 040

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Boston [mailto:ianboston@...] On Behalf
> Of Ian Boston
> Sent: 11 February 2008 23:24
> To: Josh Baron
> Cc: Plourde, Mathieu; pedagogy;
> 'sakai-dev@...'; sakai-dg-ui
> Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> Josh,
> you can :)
>
> With the sites admin tool.
>
> Each wiki page has a global name that you can use to reference it.
>
> Each wiki tool added to a worksite is configured with its
> home page as a wiki page.
>
> Think of wiki space like a global filing system of all wiki
> pages in a Sakai instance.
>
> If you create a wiki link with a / in a new sub folder or sub
> space is created... eg
>
> [lab_experiment12/]
>
> will create a new wiki space called lab_experiment12 with its
> own Home page (and all the other default pages).
>
> You will see the full global name of the page on the info tab
> in the wiki tool.
>
> ----
>
> When a wiki tool is added to a site it connects to the home
> page of the default wiki space for that site.
>
> You can configure a wiki tool in a worksite to point to any
> other wiki space (using its global name). it doesnt even have
> to be in the same site, but check permissions so that your
> students can at least read the pages that are there.
>
> So you can add as many as you like, each pointing to
> different wiki spaces.
>
> you just need to change the home-page configuration setting
> to the global name of the page you want the wiki to start at
>
> use Admin Workspace -> Sites -> select site -> pages -> select page -
> > tools -> edit wiki
>
> Scroll down and edit the home-page settings
>
>
>
> I hope that makes sense.
>
> btw, this will probably bounce from some of these groups.
> Ian
>
>
>
> On 11 Feb 2008, at 22:33, Josh Baron wrote:
>
> >  Unless I am
> > mistaken, I don't think you can deploy the wiki tool "twice" in one
> > course site.
>
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> Date: 11/02/2008 17:28
>  
>

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[Harriet Truscott]

These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool that
we're really wanting.

What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
authoring system" which will include  

build collaborative web pages without any coding
Have role-based permissions
workflow
scheduling releases of content
link to assignments
link to quizzes
link to resources

It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports

If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it appears,
etc.

We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than put
together pages of information.

I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management system
within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new functionality
to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn the
wiki tool into a Melete-light?

Harriet

No virus found in this outgoing message.
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17:28


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[Khan, Salwa]

What Harriett says is right on the mark at least from the standpoint of my institution.  Melete is a great starting point, and is for the most part easy to use.  It just needs some new features and to be better integrated with other tools.

The wiki continues to be my favorite tool for collaborative writing/research, for students or instructors creating a knowledge base and so on--but not for structuring a course/lessons because of the "coding" involved.

Salwa

Salwa Khan
Coordinator, IT Projects
Texas State University
Instructional Technologies Support
sk16@...
512 245-4390

-----Original Message-----
From: Harriet Truscott [mailto:harriet@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:49 AM
To: 'pedagogy'; sakai-dev@...; 'sakai-dg-ui'
Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool that
we're really wanting.

What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
authoring system" which will include

build collaborative web pages without any coding
Have role-based permissions
workflow
scheduling releases of content
link to assignments
link to quizzes
link to resources

It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports

If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it appears,
etc.

We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than put
together pages of information.

I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management system
within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new functionality
to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn the
wiki tool into a Melete-light?

Harriet

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 11/02/2008
17:28


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[Plourde, Mathieu]

So I guess the overall feeling is:

1) Let the wiki be a wiki, but make sure it gets a WYSIWYG editor at some point, which is available in later releases.
2) Let's beef up Melete to make it act as the HTML-based aggregating tool.
3) For the record, it would be nice to have access to all resources of all tools, in order to link any resource from any tool in Sakai... as we say in French: "lorsque les poules auront des dents" (when chickens will grow teeth).

Best Regards,

=========================

Mathieu Plourde, MBA
Instructional Designer
IT-User Services
University of Delaware
021 Smith Hall
Newark, DE 19716

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
mathieu@...
http://copland.udel.edu/~mathieu/

=========================

UUUU   UUU
UU     U
UU     U
UU DDDDDDDD
UU  DD U   DD
UU UDU     DD
DD      DD
DD      DD
DD     DD
DDDDDDDD

-----Original Message-----
From: Khan, Salwa [mailto:sk16@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 8:20 AM
To: Harriet Truscott; 'pedagogy'; sakai-dev@...; 'sakai-dg-ui'
Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

What Harriett says is right on the mark at least from the standpoint of my institution.  Melete is a great starting point, and is for the most part easy to use.  It just needs some new features and to be better integrated with other tools.

The wiki continues to be my favorite tool for collaborative writing/research, for students or instructors creating a knowledge base and so on--but not for structuring a course/lessons because of the "coding" involved.

Salwa

Salwa Khan
Coordinator, IT Projects
Texas State University
Instructional Technologies Support
sk16@...
512 245-4390

-----Original Message-----
From: Harriet Truscott [mailto:harriet@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:49 AM
To: 'pedagogy'; sakai-dev@...; 'sakai-dg-ui'
Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool that
we're really wanting.

What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
authoring system" which will include

build collaborative web pages without any coding
Have role-based permissions
workflow
scheduling releases of content
link to assignments
link to quizzes
link to resources

It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports

If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it appears,
etc.

We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than put
together pages of information.

I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management system
within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new functionality
to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn the
wiki tool into a Melete-light?

Harriet

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 11/02/2008
17:28


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[smkeesle]

Well, I feel like I'm just jumping onto a heap here and probably pulling the
conversation away from the starting point...but since everyone is enjoying
it...  :)

Adding from the portfolio camp, portfolio owners (usually students) create
or present their own selected content to an audience of their choosing. I'm
sure I'm not the first to see some overlap between OSP free-form portfolios
and student owned wiki's. However, students I've talked to prefer to use the
WYSIWYG editor available in OSP (and most other tools) to author their
portfolio pages. Wiki code seems just too scary.



------------------------------
Sean Keesler
Project Manager
The Living SchoolBook
030 Huntington Hall
Syracuse University
315-443-4768






On 2/12/08 8:19 AM, "Khan, Salwa" <sk16@...> wrote:

> What Harriett says is right on the mark at least from the standpoint of my
> institution.  Melete is a great starting point, and is for the most part easy
> to use.  It just needs some new features and to be better integrated with
> other tools.
>
> The wiki continues to be my favorite tool for collaborative writing/research,
> for students or instructors creating a knowledge base and so on--but not for
> structuring a course/lessons because of the "coding" involved.
>
> Salwa
>
> Salwa Khan
> Coordinator, IT Projects
> Texas State University
> Instructional Technologies Support
> sk16@...
> 512 245-4390
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harriet Truscott [mailto:harriet@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:49 AM
> To: 'pedagogy'; sakai-dev@...; 'sakai-dg-ui'
> Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool that
> we're really wanting.
>
> What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
> authoring system" which will include
>
> build collaborative web pages without any coding
> Have role-based permissions
> workflow
> scheduling releases of content
> link to assignments
> link to quizzes
> link to resources
>
> It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports
>
> If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
> about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it appears,
> etc.
>
> We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
> and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than put
> together pages of information.
>
> I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management system
> within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
> design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new functionality
> to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn the
> wiki tool into a Melete-light?
>
> Harriet
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 11/02/2008
> 17:28
>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Teaching & Learning
> site.
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>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
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> site.
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>

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[David Goodrum]

As an aside, at IU we've been looking at the abbreviated WYSIWYG editor for
the Wiki tool that's been developed and have it in or testing environment
now.  Outside of a couple of suggestions, it looks like a really good
addition to the Wiki tool, one that will make it more appealing to our
users. - David

David Goodrum
Indiana University

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Keesler [mailto:smkeesle@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:06 AM
To: Salwa Khan; Harriet Truscott; 'pedagogy'; Sakai Dev; 'sakai-dg-ui'
Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Well, I feel like I'm just jumping onto a heap here and probably pulling the
conversation away from the starting point...but since everyone is enjoying
it...  :)

Adding from the portfolio camp, portfolio owners (usually students) create
or present their own selected content to an audience of their choosing. I'm
sure I'm not the first to see some overlap between OSP free-form portfolios
and student owned wiki's. However, students I've talked to prefer to use the
WYSIWYG editor available in OSP (and most other tools) to author their
portfolio pages. Wiki code seems just too scary.



------------------------------
Sean Keesler
Project Manager
The Living SchoolBook
030 Huntington Hall
Syracuse University
315-443-4768






On 2/12/08 8:19 AM, "Khan, Salwa" <sk16@...> wrote:

> What Harriett says is right on the mark at least from the standpoint of my
> institution.  Melete is a great starting point, and is for the most part
easy
> to use.  It just needs some new features and to be better integrated with
> other tools.
>
> The wiki continues to be my favorite tool for collaborative
writing/research,
> for students or instructors creating a knowledge base and so on--but not
for

> structuring a course/lessons because of the "coding" involved.
>
> Salwa
>
> Salwa Khan
> Coordinator, IT Projects
> Texas State University
> Instructional Technologies Support
> sk16@...
> 512 245-4390
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harriet Truscott [mailto:harriet@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:49 AM
> To: 'pedagogy'; sakai-dev@...; 'sakai-dg-ui'
> Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool

that

> we're really wanting.
>
> What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
> authoring system" which will include
>
> build collaborative web pages without any coding
> Have role-based permissions
> workflow
> scheduling releases of content
> link to assignments
> link to quizzes
> link to resources
>
> It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports
>
> If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
> about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it

appears,
> etc.
>
> We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
> and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than
put
> together pages of information.
>
> I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management
system
> within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
> design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new
functionality
> to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn
the
> wiki tool into a Melete-light?
>
> Harriet
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date:
11/02/2008
> 17:28
>
>
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[hreeves]

Now you're talking Harriet. Isn't this in large part the direction Mark Norton is heading with Sousa?

Hannah
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harriet Truscott" <harriet@...>
To: "pedagogy" <pedagogy@...>, sakai-dev@..., "sakai-dg-ui" <sakai-dg-ui@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:48:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool that
we're really wanting.

What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
authoring system" which will include  

build collaborative web pages without any coding
Have role-based permissions
workflow
scheduling releases of content
link to assignments
link to quizzes
link to resources

It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports

If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it appears,
etc.

We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than put
together pages of information.

I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management system
within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new functionality
to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn the
wiki tool into a Melete-light?

Harriet

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 11/02/2008
17:28


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--
Hannah Reeves
The rSmart Group
hreeves@...
[phone]
ICQ 339619212

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[Noah Botimer]

This is the slicing I was trying to dig out.  It seems like we're  
talking about a feature set that bleeds way outside of strict wiki  
concerns.

Maybe the wiki is the tool where the grand vision is implemented, but  
I'm getting confused which pieces are grand vision dressed in wiki  
clothes and which pieces are specific feature requests for rWiki.

I vote very strongly for implementing something that does everything  
in Harriet's list, elegantly.  And there seems to be a pretty clear  
place where we can slice the UI off of it and just write nuts&bolts  
code in the dungeon for a while.  UX folks can make a snazzy  
interface experience completely separate from most of the really hard  
work that has to go into everything below that first bullet point.

By the way -- that list is what the OSP folks have been striving to  
define and build for some time.  There has been much recent progress  
with respect to Sakai-wide workflow support and Sakai-wide "rich  
linking".  None of it's fully baked, but the tracks are being laid.

I'd love for this conversation to be formalized a little into some  
vision documentation.  Any volunteers to start it?

Thanks,
-Noah

On Feb 12, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Hannah Reeves wrote:

> Now you're talking Harriet. Isn't this in large part the direction  
> Mark Norton is heading with Sousa?
>
> Hannah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harriet Truscott" <harriet@...>
> To: "pedagogy" <pedagogy@...>, sakai-
> dev@..., "sakai-dg-ui" <sakai-dg-
> ui@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:48:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada  
> Eastern
> Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the  
> tool that
> we're really wanting.
>
> What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a  
> "content
> authoring system" which will include
>
> build collaborative web pages without any coding
> Have role-based permissions
> workflow
> scheduling releases of content
> link to assignments
> link to quizzes
> link to resources
>
> It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports
>
> If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a  
> lot are
> about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it  
> appears,
> etc.
>
> We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course  
> design,
> and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more  
> than put
> together pages of information.
>
> I think that people are looking for two tools - a content  
> management system
> within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
> design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new  
> functionality
> to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to  
> turn the
> wiki tool into a Melete-light?
>
> Harriet
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date:  
> 11/02/2008
> 17:28
>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab  
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> Preferences.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Hannah Reeves
> The rSmart Group
> hreeves@...
> [phone]
> ICQ 339619212
>
> ----------------------
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>
>
>

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[Mark Norton]

Sousa may get to this point someday, but not very soon, I suspect.  
Furthermore, it's likely to be very different than either rWiki or
Melete.  It's more like the Lego approach than a finely tuned machine.  
As it happens, I am working on the Sousa page editor right now.  I'll
keep people informed as to progress or you can track changes in Confluence.

- Mark

Hannah Reeves wrote:

> Now you're talking Harriet. Isn't this in large part the direction Mark Norton is heading with Sousa?
>
> Hannah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harriet Truscott" <harriet@...>
> To: "pedagogy" <pedagogy@...>, sakai-dev@..., "sakai-dg-ui" <sakai-dg-ui@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:48:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool that
> we're really wanting.
>
> What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
> authoring system" which will include  
>
> build collaborative web pages without any coding
> Have role-based permissions
> workflow
> scheduling releases of content
> link to assignments
> link to quizzes
> link to resources
>
> It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports
>
> If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
> about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it appears,
> etc.
>
> We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
> and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than put
> together pages of information.
>
> I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management system
> within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
> design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new functionality
> to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn the
> wiki tool into a Melete-light?
>
> Harriet
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 11/02/2008
> 17:28
>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Teaching & Learning site.
> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
>
>
>
>
>  

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[Jim Eng]

The Sakaibrary group is working on a tool to author Subject Resource  
Guides (SRG's).  The idea is that the user (in most cases a  
librarian) creates a document that helps users conduct library and  
web research within a particular domain.  Eventually, the finished  
product will function as a helper that allows users to embed  
artifacts of their research activity into other sakai entities.  But  
what's interesting at the moment is the idea of an authoring  
environment.

We are working on a prototype that is tied very closely to the task  
of authoring an SRG, but we are interested in exploring the  
possibility of collaborating with others in the creation of a moire  
generic authoring tool that can be configured to author specific  
types of documents.

In the prototype, we have a toolbar at the top and a wysiwyg view of  
the document you're creating.  An SRG has sections. Sections have  
titles currently rendered as solid bars across the page.  Sections  
also have subsections.  Subsections have content-items, which can be  
rich-text, citation lists, canned searches, constrained searches,  
etc. If you want to revise a title or a content-item, you click on  
the item and through some AJAX magic, it appears in an appropriate  
editor.  When you click outside the editor, it saves your changes and  
morphs back to the wysiwyg view.  When you're creating an SRG in this  
authoring environment, there are "hint" div's at places where a user  
might want to insert something (e.g. between sections, between  
subsections, between content items). The hint-div's show up as a thin  
vertical bar when you mouse over them.  When you click on one, it  
expands into a selector that lets you choose what you want to add and  
then puts you into an appropriate editor.

I mention this because I think it sounds sort of like the tool  
Harriet and Hannah are describing, except that it is too  
specialized.  As I said above, it would be really cool if we could  
design the tool so it could be configured as an authoring environment  
for other kinds of documents.  We'd be happy to talk with other  
groups interested in working on something like that.

Jim


On Feb 12, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Mark Norton wrote:

> Sousa may get to this point someday, but not very soon, I suspect.  
> Furthermore, it's likely to be very different than either rWiki or  
> Melete.  It's more like the Lego approach than a finely tuned  
> machine.  As it happens, I am working on the Sousa page editor  
> right now.  I'll keep people informed as to progress or you can  
> track changes in Confluence.
>
> - Mark
>
> Hannah Reeves wrote:
>> Now you're talking Harriet. Isn't this in large part the direction  
>> Mark Norton is heading with Sousa?
>>
>> Hannah
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Harriet Truscott" <harriet@...>
>> To: "pedagogy" <pedagogy@...>, sakai-
>> dev@..., "sakai-dg-ui" <sakai-dg-
>> ui@...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:48:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada  
>> Eastern
>> Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>>
>> These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the  
>> tool that
>> we're really wanting.
>> What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a  
>> "content
>> authoring system" which will include
>> build collaborative web pages without any coding
>> Have role-based permissions
>> workflow scheduling releases of content
>> link to assignments
>> link to quizzes
>> link to resources
>>
>> It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their  
>> reports
>>
>> If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a  
>> lot are
>> about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it  
>> appears,
>> etc.
>>
>> We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course  
>> design,
>> and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do  
>> more than put
>> together pages of information.
>> I think that people are looking for two tools - a content  
>> management system
>> within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a  
>> course
>> design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new  
>> functionality
>> to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying  
>> to turn the
>> wiki tool into a Melete-light?
>>
>> Harriet
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:  
>> 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 11/02/2008
>> 17:28
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab  
>> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Teaching &  
>> Learning site.
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>> Preferences.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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[Maggie Lynch]

I agree with Harriet that we should concentrate on increasing
functionality in Melete for building course content, instead of creating
another tool to do the same thing but not as well.

In terms of the Wiki, the most important part of this tool for us is
the ability for multiple people to edit content and to track those edits
in some way. We try to use this tool for student collaboration on papers
and research, written debates on controversial content with evidence
included as links, and for peer review of papers.  

Though many of our faculty love the concept of usign the tool in these
ways, they don't use it because it is not very user friendly with the
tagging requirements for basic formatting (i.e., bold, italics, indent)
This is where a WYSIWYG mode would be helpful. If it could keep the same
collaborative capabilities (i.e., anyone can edit), added to the group
awareness and permissioning capabilities (only students within a
particular groups can edit), but with a WYSIWYG editor then it would be
dynamite. Or there may be a better tool already designed to do this type
of work. I don't know of one but I wouldn't be surprised if someone
did.

Another integration possibility for this type of tool would be for
faculty feedback within Assignments or graded papers.  Currently, when
faculty correct papers they like to do line editing and/or commenting
directly on the paper. Neither the assignment tool or the drop box
allows this direct editing.  Instead, the faculty must download the
paper--from attachments to assignments or from the drop box--use Word's
editing features, then upload the paper back to the student again with
another file name.  If there was a way for the same multiple editor
capabilities (without downloading) for assignments that would be great.

Maggie



Maggie McVay Lynch, Ed.D.
Director of Statewide Teaching and Learning Services
OHSU School of Nursing
SON 427
Portland, OR 97239
503-494-6271
[see attachment: "message0.html", size: 2370 bytes]

[see attachment: "Maggie Lynch.vcf", size: 218 bytes]


Attachments:

message0.html
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/a73c081b-eb53-4179-8079-33c92f9c1e68/message0.html

Maggie Lynch.vcf
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[Aurora Collado]

A WYSIWYG editor for the Wiki tool is great news!

We are currently Blackboard users piloting Sakai. Blackboard does not have a Wiki, so we license a third party Wiki tool (BuildingBlock) that integrates seamlessly with Blackboard. The features of this Wiki tool that our instructors like most are:

- It has a WYSIWYG editor that makes the job of editing pages and adding content extremely easy (copy and paste).
- A Wiki is available, for all the students in the class, by default when the course site is created, however, the instructor can add as many Wikis in his/her course site as needed and give access to each Wiki as desired (by individual/s in the course, by group/s or combination of both). This is all done by the instructor without the intervention of the system admin.
- It has some integration with the Gradebook
- It can be exported as a Zip of Html pages.

If anyone is interested in taking a look at it, please send me an email to aurora@... and I will be happy to give you access to a site where you can check/test it out.

Aurora
UNC Chapel Hill

-----Original Message-----
From: David Goodrum [mailto:goodrum@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:23 AM
To: 'Sean Keesler'; 'Salwa Khan'; 'Harriet Truscott'; 'pedagogy'; 'Sakai Dev'; 'sakai-dg-ui'
Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

As an aside, at IU we've been looking at the abbreviated WYSIWYG editor for
the Wiki tool that's been developed and have it in or testing environment
now.  Outside of a couple of suggestions, it looks like a really good
addition to the Wiki tool, one that will make it more appealing to our
users. - David

David Goodrum
Indiana University

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Keesler [mailto:smkeesle@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:06 AM
To: Salwa Khan; Harriet Truscott; 'pedagogy'; Sakai Dev; 'sakai-dg-ui'
Subject: Re: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.

Well, I feel like I'm just jumping onto a heap here and probably pulling the
conversation away from the starting point...but since everyone is enjoying
it...  :)

Adding from the portfolio camp, portfolio owners (usually students) create
or present their own selected content to an audience of their choosing. I'm
sure I'm not the first to see some overlap between OSP free-form portfolios
and student owned wiki's. However, students I've talked to prefer to use the
WYSIWYG editor available in OSP (and most other tools) to author their
portfolio pages. Wiki code seems just too scary.



------------------------------
Sean Keesler
Project Manager
The Living SchoolBook
030 Huntington Hall
Syracuse University
315-443-4768






On 2/12/08 8:19 AM, "Khan, Salwa" <sk16@...> wrote:

> What Harriett says is right on the mark at least from the standpoint of my
> institution.  Melete is a great starting point, and is for the most part
easy
> to use.  It just needs some new features and to be better integrated with
> other tools.
>
> The wiki continues to be my favorite tool for collaborative
writing/research,
> for students or instructors creating a knowledge base and so on--but not
for

> structuring a course/lessons because of the "coding" involved.
>
> Salwa
>
> Salwa Khan
> Coordinator, IT Projects
> Texas State University
> Instructional Technologies Support
> sk16@...
> 512 245-4390
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harriet Truscott [mailto:harriet@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:49 AM
> To: 'pedagogy'; sakai-dev@...; 'sakai-dg-ui'
> Subject: RE: Measuring demand for a WYSIWYG Wiki mode.
>
> These dicussions are still making me think that the wiki isn't the tool

that

> we're really wanting.
>
> What people have just talked about in the most recent mails is a "content
> authoring system" which will include
>
> build collaborative web pages without any coding
> Have role-based permissions
> workflow
> scheduling releases of content
> link to assignments
> link to quizzes
> link to resources
>
> It should also allow students to use the wiki to develop their reports
>
> If you look at the feature requests that we get in for the wiki, a lot are
> about adding in user-defined CSS, allowing users to control how it

appears,
> etc.
>
> We have people at Cambridge trying to use the Wiki tool for course design,
> and frankly, it isn't very successful as soon as you try to do more than
put
> together pages of information.
>
> I think that people are looking for two tools - a content management
system
> within Sakai, and a course design tool. Well, we already have a course
> design tool in Melete - so why aren't we workig on adding new
functionality
> to Melete and making it a core part of Sakai, rather than trying to turn
the
> wiki tool into a Melete-light?
>
> Harriet
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date:
11/02/2008
> 17:28
>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
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Preferences.
>
> ----------------------
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