G3 (or other non-altivec machines) testers sought

[Sjoerd Simons-2]

Hi,

  Gstreamer currently has a release critical bug that seems to be only
  reproducable on powerpc machines without altivec support and even then not
  always. The best hint to what the problem might be seems to indicate there is
  an issue in the libvisual altivec detection code[0]..
 
  Also for some reporters the problem went away (!?). Google revealed that
  pld-linux re-enabled the altivec detection because it works ``on fixed
  kernel''. So it might be related to specific kernel versions.

  So what i would like people to do (Only on machine without altivec!):
   
   0: Install gstreamer 0.10 (at least gstreamer0.10-plugins-base and
      gstreamer0.10-tools from etch)
   1: Run:
        rm ~/.gstreamer-0.10/registry.*.xml  
        gst-launch-0.10 --gst-disable-registry-fork
   2a: If it doesn't crash:
     - please try on an older kernel if possible
   2b: If it does crash:
     - please try on a newer (debian) kernel if possible
     - if that doesn't help try the libvisual packages at:
       http://people.debian.org/~sjoerd/libvisual/
   3: Thanks for testing! Please mail your experiences, kernel versions,
      machines types etc.
 
  Sjoerd
0: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=404876;msg=88
--
Don't kid yourself.  Little is relevant, and nothing lasts forever.

[Rick Thomas]

On Jan 14, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Sjoerd Simons wrote:

> The best hint to what the problem might be seems to indicate there is
>   an issue in the libvisual altivec detection code[0]..

I installed on my "beige G3" PowerMac (OldWorld) test machine.  I  
used the latest d-i netinst CD dated 2007 Jan 21 09:10:17 UTC,  
downloaded from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/sid_d- 
i/20070121-1/powerpc/iso-cd/

I did a default install.  When it came to running "tasksel" I chose  
the "desktop" and "standard" tasks.  It installed everything pretty  
much as expected except that it wound up in a red screen saying:

        [!!] Configure gnome-applets
                Installation step failed
        An installation step failed.
        The failing step is: Select and install software.

I continued anyway and allowed it to reboot, which went pretty much  
as expected.

After the reboot, I tried to log into Gnome.  It behaved as described  
in bug#404876 (popup telling of a problem loading  
"OAFID:GNOME_MixerApplet", and the screen went all wiggly.)

I then followed Sjoerd's instructions for testing.

0: Install gstreamer
        no problem.

1: rm ~/.gstreamer-0.10/registry.*.xml
        That directory didn't exist.  So there was nothing to remove.

    gst-launch-0.10 --gst-disable-registry-fork
        crashed with "illegal instruction"

2b: installed the kernel from SID.
        gst-launch... still gave "illegal instruction"

     downloaded and installed libvisual-0.4-0_0.4.0-1.0.1_powerpc.deb  
from sjoerd's directory.
        got "ERROR: pipeline could not be constructed: empty pipeline not  
allowed."
         I assume this is the "right" answer?

Then I logged out and logged back in again to Gnome.  No more  
wiggles.  So that fixes the problem, whatever it was.

Congratulations!

Rick



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[Rick Thomas]

On Jan 14, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Sjoerd Simons wrote:

> Hi,
>
>   Gstreamer currently has a release critical bug that seems to be only
>   reproducable on powerpc machines without altivec support and even  
> then not
>   always. The best hint to what the problem might be seems to  
> indicate there is
>   an issue in the libvisual altivec detection code[0]..

Here's an interesting counterpoint to my previous experiences with an  
OldWorld Beige G3 PowerMac...

I tried installing on a Blue&White G3 NewWorld (just barely! -- it  
was one of the very first of Apple's NewWorld PowerMacs).

It has the G3 processor (no altivec) but the wigglys don't happen!

I installed from the Jan 21, 2007 09:10:17 UTC "businesscard" CD.

I haven't tried the whole testing process that Sjoerd recommended.  I  
will do that soon.

"Curiouser and curioser!", cried Alice.

Rick


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[Sjoerd Simons-2]

I've just uploaded an NMU of libvisual to the DELAYED/2-day queue on gluck,
which works around the issue of the altivec detection causing gstreamer to
segv on some powerpc machines without altivec. Which in turn breaks the gnome
desktop on these machines. The workaround simply completely disables the
altivec detection.

With this workaround #404876 and #407153 can either be closed or downgraded &&
retitled to please enable/fix altivec detection.

  Sjoerd
--
How can you do 'New Math' problems with an 'Old Math' mind?
                -- Charles Schulz


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[Steve Langasek]

Hi Sjoerd,
On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:47PM +0100, Sjoerd Simons wrote:

> I've just uploaded an NMU of libvisual to the DELAYED/2-day queue on gluck,
> which works around the issue of the altivec detection causing gstreamer to
> segv on some powerpc machines without altivec. Which in turn breaks the gnome
> desktop on these machines. The workaround simply completely disables the
> altivec detection.

Where is the diff for this NMU, please?

> With this workaround #404876 and #407153 can either be closed or downgraded &&
> retitled to please enable/fix altivec detection.

Have you not closed these bugs in the changelog of your NMU?

--
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon@...                                   http://www.debian.org/


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[Loïc Minier]

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > With this workaround #404876 and #407153 can either be closed or downgraded &&
> > retitled to please enable/fix altivec detection.
> Have you not closed these bugs in the changelog of your NMU?

 I'm the one who proposed not to close the bug as the bug isn't fixed,
 only hidden, and altivec support is desirable.  Perhaps we should clone
 the bug and close one if you need a RC bug to track this upload.

--
Loïc Minier <lool@...>


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[Sjoerd Simons-2]

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 05:57:13PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:

> Hi Sjoerd,
> On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:47PM +0100, Sjoerd Simons wrote:
>
> > I've just uploaded an NMU of libvisual to the DELAYED/2-day queue on gluck,
> > which works around the issue of the altivec detection causing gstreamer to
> > segv on some powerpc machines without altivec. Which in turn breaks the gnome
> > desktop on these machines. The workaround simply completely disables the
> > altivec detection.
>
> Where is the diff for this NMU, please?

Oh, forgot to attach it, sorry. See attachment

> > With this workaround #404876 and #407153 can either be closed or downgraded
> > && retitled to please enable/fix altivec detection.
>
> Have you not closed these bugs in the changelog of your NMU?

No, as Loic mentioned in his mail we decided that this bug should be downgraded
instead of being closed as it's just a work-around instead of a real fix.

If you prefer, i can ofcourse upload a new version which does clone the bug and
we can do some magic to open a new one with the same info, stating what
actually should be fixed :)

  Sjoerd
PS: Please keep me CC'd in replies
--
Expansion means complexity; and complexity decay.

---

diff -u libvisual-0.4.0/debian/changelog libvisual-0.4.0/debian/changelog
--- libvisual-0.4.0/debian/changelog
+++ libvisual-0.4.0/debian/changelog
@@ -1,3 +1,11 @@
+libvisual (0.4.0-1.1) unstable; urgency=high
+
+  * NMU
+  * Disable altivec detection code, it breaks gstreamer on machines without
+    altivec.
+
+ -- Sjoerd Simons <sjoerd@...>  Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:26:45 +0100
+
 libvisual (0.4.0-1) unstable; urgency=low
 
   * New upstream release
only in patch2:
unchanged:
--- libvisual-0.4.0.orig/libvisual/lv_cpu.c
+++ libvisual-0.4.0/libvisual/lv_cpu.c
@@ -143,6 +143,7 @@
 
 static void check_os_altivec_support( void )
 {
+  return;
 #if defined(VISUAL_OS_DARWIN)
  int sels[2] = {CTL_HW, HW_VECTORUNIT};
  int has_vu = 0;

---

[Sjoerd Simons-2]

On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 12:24:46PM +0100, Sjoerd Simons wrote:
> If you prefer, i can ofcourse upload a new version which does clone the bug
                                                 s/clone/close/ ^^^^^
> and we can do some magic to open a new one with the same info, stating what
> actually should be fixed :)

  Sjoerd
--
Do not seek death; death will find you.  But seek the road which makes death
a fulfillment.
                -- Dag Hammarskjold


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[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 08:36:19AM +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 05, 2007, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > With this workaround #404876 and #407153 can either be closed or downgraded &&
> > > retitled to please enable/fix altivec detection.
> > Have you not closed these bugs in the changelog of your NMU?

>  I'm the one who proposed not to close the bug as the bug isn't fixed,
>  only hidden, and altivec support is desirable.  Perhaps we should clone
>  the bug and close one if you need a RC bug to track this upload.

Yes, please.  There are two separate bugs here:  earlier versions of the
package have broken altivec detection that leaves the package unusable on
some procs, later versions have no altivec detection at all.  The former is
RC (at least arguably), the latter is not, so it would be helpful to be able
to distinguish between the two.

--
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon@...                                   http://www.debian.org/


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Hi folks,

After some private email, I suspect the right driver has simply been
omitted from the netinstall daily build, so I've submitted a bug report.

Has anyone else hit this problem, or found a way around it?  I get as
far as the Ethernet detection, which fails.  I'm presented with a couple
of options for drivers, but none work.  So I can't proceed beyond this
point, since I obviously need a network for a netinstall.

Cheers,  Mike.

---------------------------------------------------------------
           Mike Hore        mike_hore@...
---------------------------------------------------------------


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[Ananda Samaddar]

I've never done this but if you're using an Open firmware based machine can you not compile your own kernel and boot off it to install?

Here are the relevant sections of the Etch install manual

http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch04s05.html#files-newworld
http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch04s05.html#files-newworld

According to these instructions if you compile a custom vmlinux image and initrd img and copy these over along with other neccessary files you should be able to boot the installer and have the ethernet support you require.  Obviously you can compile the kernel on another PPC machine.  I'd offer to do it for you if you don't have access to such a machine, but I only have a G3 700MHz and it would take 1 1/2 to 2 hours!  If all else fails let me know and I will do so.

Ananda



On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:23:11 +0930
Mike Hore <mike_hore@...> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> After some private email, I suspect the right driver has simply been
> omitted from the netinstall daily build, so I've submitted a bug report.
>
> Has anyone else hit this problem, or found a way around it?  I get as
> far as the Ethernet detection, which fails.  I'm presented with a couple
> of options for drivers, but none work.  So I can't proceed beyond this
> point, since I obviously need a network for a netinstall.
>
> Cheers,  Mike.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>            Mike Hore        mike_hore@...
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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[Ananda Samaddar]

Messed up the links there and posted the same one twice, the second one should be:

http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch05s01.html#install-drive

Ananda


On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 03:05:48 +0000
Ananda Samaddar <a.k.samaddar@...> wrote:

> I've never done this but if you're using an Open firmware based machine can you not compile your own kernel and boot off it to install?
>
> Here are the relevant sections of the Etch install manual
>
> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch04s05.html#files-newworld
> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch04s05.html#files-newworld
>
> According to these instructions if you compile a custom vmlinux image and initrd img and copy these over along with other neccessary files you should be able to boot the installer and have the ethernet support you require.  Obviously you can compile the kernel on another PPC machine.  I'd offer to do it for you if you don't have access to such a machine, but I only have a G3 700MHz and it would take 1 1/2 to 2 hours!  If all else fails let me know and I will do so.
>
> Ananda
>
>
>
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:23:11 +0930
> Mike Hore <mike_hore@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > After some private email, I suspect the right driver has simply been
> > omitted from the netinstall daily build, so I've submitted a bug report.
> >
> > Has anyone else hit this problem, or found a way around it?  I get as
> > far as the Ethernet detection, which fails.  I'm presented with a couple
> > of options for drivers, but none work.  So I can't proceed beyond this
> > point, since I obviously need a network for a netinstall.
> >
> > Cheers,  Mike.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >            Mike Hore        mike_hore@...
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
>
>
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Thanks Ananda,

> Messed up the links there and posted the same one twice, the second one should be:
> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch05s01.html#install-drive

Yes, I could probably do this, though I'm fairly new to Linux and never
done a kernel compile.  But I have two running systems on my G5 -- Mac
OSX (with full development setup) and Ubuntu.  I'm sure I could do it
under Ubuntu since it's based on Debian anyway.  But as I'm on holidays
I don't want to take a lot of time -- no need for you to bother.  This
isn't a high priority thing for me -- if I decide I want to do it badly
enough, I'm sure I can figure out how to do it.

Anyway, in the meantime installer is broken, so I did need to notify
people of this.

Cheers,  Mike.

>
> Ananda
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 03:05:48 +0000
> Ananda Samaddar <a.k.samaddar@...> wrote:
>
>> I've never done this but if you're using an Open firmware based machine can you not compile your own kernel and boot off it to install?
>>
>> Here are the relevant sections of the Etch install manual
>>
>> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch04s05.html#files-newworld
>> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.powerpc/ch04s05.html#files-newworld
>>
>> According to these instructions if you compile a custom vmlinux image and initrd img and copy these over along with other neccessary files you should be able to boot the installer and have the ethernet support you require.  Obviously you can compile the kernel on another PPC machine.  I'd offer to do it for you if you don't have access to such a machine, but I only have a G3 700MHz and it would take 1 1/2 to 2 hours!  If all else fails let me know and I will do so.
>>
>> Ananda
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:23:11 +0930
>> Mike Hore <mike_hore@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> After some private email, I suspect the right driver has simply been
>>> omitted from the netinstall daily build, so I've submitted a bug report.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else hit this problem, or found a way around it?  I get as
>>> far as the Ethernet detection, which fails.  I'm presented with a couple
>>> of options for drivers, but none work.  So I can't proceed beyond this
>>> point, since I obviously need a network for a netinstall.
>>>
>>> Cheers,  Mike.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>            Mike Hore        mike_hore@...
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-powerpc-REQUEST@...
>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
>>>
>>
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>
>

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---------------------------------------------------------------
           Mike Hore        mike_hore@...
---------------------------------------------------------------


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[Charles Plessy]

Le Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 02:06:31PM +0930, Mike Hore a écrit :
>
> Anyway, in the meantime installer is broken, so I did need to notify
> people of this.

Hi, I tried today's daily build on my iMac G5 rev. A, and the cdrom and
ethernet detection went fine. Maybe you can give it a try again...

Good luck,

--
Charles Plessy
http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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