GNUstep @ FOSDEM 2010 6th and 7th February 2010

[Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf]

Since the dates for FOSDEM 2010 ( http://fosdem.org/2010/ ) are out,  
I thought we better start discussing this earlier than later so  
everybody has enough time to plan and we don't get in a hurry with  
deadlines and such.

FOSDEM, the most developer-oriented Free and Opensource conference in  
Europe, is taking place in Brussels, Belgium on Saturday 6 and Sunday  
7 February 2010.

I have set up a wiki page for this: http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/ 
FOSDEM_2010

My questions now are:

- Are you going to attend? (if so please enter your name in the  
FOSDEM 2010 wiki page or if you don't have a wiki account reply to  
this mail so I can enter your name)

- What are we planning for FOSDEM? Will we apply for a dev-room again  
and/or for a stand? (for a dev-room we would need speakers, a stand  
needs more manpower to operate than the dev-room (all the time at  
least two to three people must be at the stand and since nobody can  
be there all the time so we need way more than that))

- If we apply for a dev-room and/or stand will we do a joint  
application of GNUstep/Étoilé/OpenGroupware.org like last year or  
does somebody have objections? (Helge? ;-))

- Who is willing to help organizing the event?


Please discuss!


regards,

        Lars

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[Nicolas Roard]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf
<lars.sonchocky-helldorf@...> wrote:

> Since the dates for FOSDEM 2010 ( http://fosdem.org/2010/ ) are out, I
> thought we better start discussing this earlier than later so everybody has
> enough time to plan and we don't get in a hurry with deadlines and such.
>
> FOSDEM, the most developer-oriented Free and Opensource conference in
> Europe, is taking place in Brussels, Belgium on Saturday 6 and Sunday 7
> February 2010.
>
> I have set up a wiki page for this:
> http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/FOSDEM_2010
>
> My questions now are:
>
> - Are you going to attend? (if so please enter your name in the FOSDEM 2010
> wiki page or if you don't have a wiki account reply to this mail so I can
> enter your name)

done.. :)

> - What are we planning for FOSDEM? Will we apply for a dev-room again and/or
> for a stand? (for a dev-room we would need speakers, a stand needs more
> manpower to operate than the dev-room (all the time at least two to three
> people must be at the stand and since nobody can be there all the time so we
> need way more than that))

I think we may just not ask for the stand this year... just ask for a
dev-room. And only do a few talks (i.e., "State of GNUstep 2010") and
keep hacking the rest of the time.
Put posters pointing to the dev room in the hallway, and that's it!

That way we'll hopefully do some good work while we are all together.
A few talks could be interesting, but no more than that -- the feeling
I got from the last fosdems I attended was that we would take a lot of
time preparing for the stand, organizing talks, but there weren't that
much interest overall. So it seems to me our efforts would be better
spent hacking together...

> - If we apply for a dev-room and/or stand will we do a joint application of
> GNUstep/Étoilé/OpenGroupware.org like last year or does somebody have
> objections? (Helge? ;-))

no objections!

> - Who is willing to help organizing the event?
>
>
> Please discuss!
>
>
> regards,
>
>        Lars
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss-gnustep mailing list
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>

--
Nicolas Roard
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound
they make as they fly by." -- Douglas Adams


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> I think we may just not ask for the stand this year... just ask for a
> dev-room. And only do a few talks (i.e., "State of GNUstep 2010") and
> keep hacking the rest of the time.
> Put posters pointing to the dev room in the hallway, and that's it!

When looking at the recent growth of new members of this list, I think
there is a lot of more interest in GNUstep than before. Probably by
new iPhone developers who want to extend their newly gained experience
to GNUstep and want to learn what it is and how it can be used
uefully.

Therefore, we should have some "Introduction to GNUstep & tutorial"
talk that is done only once every day (e.g. Sat 14:00, Sun 14:00).
This needs a DevRoom and is IMHO more important than a stand. And it
should be the only formal "presentation" we do. All other activities
can be code sprints, hacking, discussing, meeting, etc. We can also
set up a "demo & brochures" corner.

And, lingering around all the day in a devroom may be more healthy
than manning a stand in the cold hallway with a air-conditioner in the
back :)

Nikolaus
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[Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf]

Am 17.10.2009 um 10:21 schrieb hns@...:

>> I think we may just not ask for the stand this year... just ask for a
>> dev-room. And only do a few talks (i.e., "State of GNUstep 2010") and
>> keep hacking the rest of the time.
>> Put posters pointing to the dev room in the hallway, and that's it!
>
> When looking at the recent growth of new members of this list, I think
> there is a lot of more interest in GNUstep than before. Probably by
> new iPhone developers who want to extend their newly gained experience
> to GNUstep and want to learn what it is and how it can be used
> uefully.

currently only 4 people (including myself) have declared intend to  
come to FOSDEM 2010. This is not to overwhelming if you ask me. Btw,  
how about you, Nikolaus? Are you planning a FOSDEM presence? I am  
also looking for some co-organisers for our FOSDEM presence. You did  
already this two (or more?) times in the past so I'd appreciate your  
experience here.

>
> Therefore, we should have some "Introduction to GNUstep & tutorial"
> talk that is done only once every day (e.g. Sat 14:00, Sun 14:00).
> This needs a DevRoom and is IMHO more important than a stand. And it
> should be the only formal "presentation" we do. All other activities
> can be code sprints, hacking, discussing, meeting, etc. We can also
> set up a "demo & brochures" corner.

I think a good mixture out of some presentations (I guess we need at  
least some to get the dev-room and those make people from outside our  
group interested in GNUstep) and the more GNUstep internal activities  
(code sprints, hacking, discussing, meeting and such) would be the  
best. All our talks and presentations last year were well visited,  
our room was never empty. Of course the value of this is more on the  
marketing side, making GNUstep known between developers (and those  
are the people that write our future killer apps ;-)). But I am still  
waiting for input here (also on the "GNUstep-internal" activities).

>
> And, lingering around all the day in a devroom may be more healthy
> than manning a stand in the cold hallway with a air-conditioner in the
> back :)

That's true. Most people at the stand had only cursory interest while  
people sitting in a dev-room talk/presentation/lecture could be  
impressed much more sustainable.

>
> Nikolaus

regards,

        Lars


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On 20 Okt., 00:36, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf <lars.sonchocky-
helld...@...> wrote:

> Am 17.10.2009 um 10:21 schrieb h...@...:
>
> >> I think we may just not ask for the stand this year... just ask for a
> >> dev-room. And only do a few talks (i.e., "State of GNUstep 2010") and
> >> keep hacking the rest of the time.
> >> Put posters pointing to the dev room in the hallway, and that's it!
>
> > When looking at the recent growth of new members of this list, I think
> > there is a lot of more interest in GNUstep than before. Probably by
> > new iPhone developers who want to extend their newly gained experience
> > to GNUstep and want to learn what it is and how it can be used
> > uefully.
>
> currently only 4 people (including myself) have declared intend to  
> come to FOSDEM 2010. This is not to overwhelming if you ask me. Btw,  
> how about you, Nikolaus? Are you planning a FOSDEM presence? I am  
> also looking for some co-organisers for our FOSDEM presence. You did  
> already this two (or more?) times in the past so I'd appreciate your  
> experience here.

Let's say I am thinking about the basic question when I should start
planning :)
My focus of activities has shifted a little over the last two years
but it could be good to go to FOSDEM anyway.
So, I have to regret that I won't take the role of co-organiser. But
if there are questions, I am happy to help answering them. And if
there is interest in a presentation about QuantumSTEP running on the
latest embedded devices (e.g. Openmoko, Beagleboard), I can prepare
one.

I think there are many others reading the list and really an
impressive number has commented Greg's recent request for improved
marketing. Here is now the chance to really participate in activities
and shape the future of GNUstep.

>
> > Therefore, we should have some "Introduction to GNUstep & tutorial"
> > talk that is done only once every day (e.g. Sat 14:00, Sun 14:00).
> > This needs a DevRoom and is IMHO more important than a stand. And it
> > should be the only formal "presentation" we do. All other activities
> > can be code sprints, hacking, discussing, meeting, etc. We can also
> > set up a "demo & brochures" corner.
>
> I think a good mixture out of some presentations (I guess we need at  
> least some to get the dev-room and those make people from outside our  

That is an important point. The FOSDEM organizers probably won't give
us a "private" room just for us.

> group interested in GNUstep) and the more GNUstep internal activities  
> (code sprints, hacking, discussing, meeting and such) would be the  
> best. All our talks and presentations last year were well visited,  
> our room was never empty. Of course the value of this is more on the  
> marketing side, making GNUstep known between developers (and those  

IMHO, FOSDEM participation of GNUstep (and any project that wants to
attend FOSDEM) has three targets:
* make latest GNUstep achievements known to the public
* attracting new developers
* meet companion developers in person and perhaps find some time to
discuss and solve issues (for really solving issues, most successfull
projects have separate code-sprint developer meetings)

> are the people that write our future killer apps ;-)). But I am still  
> waiting for input here (also on the "GNUstep-internal" activities).
>
>
>
> > And, lingering around all the day in a devroom may be more healthy
> > than manning a stand in the cold hallway with a air-conditioner in the
> > back :)
>
> That's true. Most people at the stand had only cursory interest while  
> people sitting in a dev-room talk/presentation/lecture could be  
> impressed much more sustainable.
>
>
>
> > Nikolaus
>
> regards,
>
>         Lars

Nikolaus
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[Tim Kack]

Hi all,

I am of course not even remotely close to the core dev group - but here
is something as an attendee I appreciated much:

The GDL2 (With Datamodeler and Gorm) presentation was excellent and very
interesting.
If we could persuade someone to do a GSWeb/GDL2 (and/or SOPE)
presentation - that would be fantastic.
Also a session of interfacing with other languages/runtimes (I.e. JIGS).

Crossplatform sessions are also very interesting (like what Nikola did
last year) - especially if it is a sessions with an example, and the
'GNUStep introduction and Tutorial' session is perfect for this.

Some of this falls into the Etoile idea of course with its LanguageKit.
To really attract people I think that devroom is a necessity.

Best regards,
Tim


On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 00:36 +0200, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:

> Am 17.10.2009 um 10:21 schrieb hns@...:
>
> >> I think we may just not ask for the stand this year... just ask for a
> >> dev-room. And only do a few talks (i.e., "State of GNUstep 2010") and
> >> keep hacking the rest of the time.
> >> Put posters pointing to the dev room in the hallway, and that's it!
> >
> > When looking at the recent growth of new members of this list, I think
> > there is a lot of more interest in GNUstep than before. Probably by
> > new iPhone developers who want to extend their newly gained experience
> > to GNUstep and want to learn what it is and how it can be used
> > uefully.
>
> currently only 4 people (including myself) have declared intend to  
> come to FOSDEM 2010. This is not to overwhelming if you ask me. Btw,  
> how about you, Nikolaus? Are you planning a FOSDEM presence? I am  
> also looking for some co-organisers for our FOSDEM presence. You did  
> already this two (or more?) times in the past so I'd appreciate your  
> experience here.
>
> >
> > Therefore, we should have some "Introduction to GNUstep & tutorial"
> > talk that is done only once every day (e.g. Sat 14:00, Sun 14:00).
> > This needs a DevRoom and is IMHO more important than a stand. And it
> > should be the only formal "presentation" we do. All other activities
> > can be code sprints, hacking, discussing, meeting, etc. We can also
> > set up a "demo & brochures" corner.
>
> I think a good mixture out of some presentations (I guess we need at  
> least some to get the dev-room and those make people from outside our  
> group interested in GNUstep) and the more GNUstep internal activities  
> (code sprints, hacking, discussing, meeting and such) would be the  
> best. All our talks and presentations last year were well visited,  
> our room was never empty. Of course the value of this is more on the  
> marketing side, making GNUstep known between developers (and those  
> are the people that write our future killer apps ;-)). But I am still  
> waiting for input here (also on the "GNUstep-internal" activities).
>
> >
> > And, lingering around all the day in a devroom may be more healthy
> > than manning a stand in the cold hallway with a air-conditioner in the
> > back :)
>
> That's true. Most people at the stand had only cursory interest while  
> people sitting in a dev-room talk/presentation/lecture could be  
> impressed much more sustainable.
>
> >
> > Nikolaus
>
> regards,
>
> Lars
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss-gnustep mailing list
> Discuss-gnustep@...
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep

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[Nicola Pero-4]

> - What are we planning for FOSDEM? Will we apply for a dev-room  
> again and/or for a stand? (for a dev-room we would need speakers, a  
> stand needs more manpower to operate than the dev-room (all the time  
> at least two to three people must be at the stand and since nobody  
> can be there all the time so we need way more than that))

I agree that if we have to choose, a room with some good presentations  
for the general public seem to be more effective than the stand in  
terms of marketing. :-)

When I say "presentations for the general public" I was thinking of  
topics such as, for example,

  * Objective-C/GNUstep on Microsoft Windows.  How you use it, what  
works, what doesn't, with demo.

  * a tutorial on how to build your first Objective-C programs  
(probably the most frequently asked FAQ on the mailing list)

  * Maybe a general introduction to Objective-C ?  We can make it  
reasonably general so it applies to both GNUstep, Apple and iPhone -  
thus attracting
a bigger crowd.

  * Maybe some tutorials/presentations on some "advanced" topics in  
Objective-C ?  (eg, discussing some of many typical Objective-C/
OpenStep design patterns)
Something that might be useful to iPhone/Apple developers as well as  
GNUstep ones - so they come to the presentation, and then we'll do all  
the explanations
and examples in GNUstep and they'll incidentally discover that there  
are free/GNU Objective-C frameworks, and that they work great. :-)

Thanks


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[David Chisnall]

On 19 Oct 2009, at 23:36, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:

> currently only 4 people (including myself) have declared intend to  
> come to FOSDEM 2010. This is not to overwhelming if you ask me. Btw,  
> how about you, Nikolaus? Are you planning a FOSDEM presence? I am  
> also looking for some co-organisers for our FOSDEM presence. You did  
> already this two (or more?) times in the past so I'd appreciate your  
> experience here.

I can't guarantee I'll make it - I hoped to last year, but then found  
that it clashed with a big deadline - but I at least plan on trying  
to.  I'd be happy to give some Étoilé-related talks if anyone's  
interested, and maybe talk a bit about the current state of Objective-
C compiler / runtime support.

For the more general audience, I'd suggest a talk like 'Porting Mac OS  
X applications to Linux and Windows with GNUstep'.  I recently  
recorded a video porting one of the Apple developer examples to  
FreeBSD with GNUstep, and the total porting time was about 5 minutes  
(including pausing to explain what's going on), so that is quite  
feasible to do in a presentation, even with some pauses to tweak the  
UI slightly for different platforms if required.

Hopefully by then Gregory will have committed his new-and-shiny  
Windows theme support and we can show GNUstep applications looking a  
bit more native on Windows.  I did have a GNUstep build environment  
running on Darwine, so that might also be quite nice to demo; set up  
an external build system target in XCode to invoke pbxbuild in WINE  
and and generate a Windows installer from XCode, copy to a Windows  
machine, install and run.

David

-- Send from my Jacquard Loom



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On 20 Okt., 12:19, David Chisnall <thera...@...> wrote:

> On 19 Oct 2009, at 23:36, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
>
> > currently only 4 people (including myself) have declared intend to  
> > come to FOSDEM 2010. This is not to overwhelming if you ask me. Btw,  
> > how about you, Nikolaus? Are you planning a FOSDEM presence? I am  
> > also looking for some co-organisers for our FOSDEM presence. You did  
> > already this two (or more?) times in the past so I'd appreciate your  
> > experience here.
>
> I can't guarantee I'll make it - I hoped to last year, but then found  
> that it clashed with a big deadline - but I at least plan on trying  
> to.  I'd be happy to give some Étoilé-related talks if anyone's  
> interested, and maybe talk a bit about the current state of Objective-
> C compiler / runtime support.
>
> For the more general audience, I'd suggest a talk like 'Porting Mac OS  
> X applications to Linux and Windows with GNUstep'.  I recently  
> recorded a video porting one of the Apple developer examples to  
> FreeBSD with GNUstep, and the total porting time was about 5 minutes  
> (including pausing to explain what's going on), so that is quite  
> feasible to do in a presentation, even with some pauses to tweak the  
> UI slightly for different platforms if required.

I can confirm that it really works and does impress the audience since
I have done that several times on presentations (at least two times on
FOSDEM) by downloading some public sample code from Apple (e.g.
Polygons, Font Explorer etc.).

Here are some links:

http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/navigation/index.html (choose
Sample Code and find some for AppKit)
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/Polygons/index.html
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/NSFontAttributeExplorer/index.html

>
> Hopefully by then Gregory will have committed his new-and-shiny  
> Windows theme support and we can show GNUstep applications looking a  
> bit more native on Windows.  I did have a GNUstep build environment  
> running on Darwine, so that might also be quite nice to demo; set up  
> an external build system target in XCode to invoke pbxbuild in WINE  
> and and generate a Windows installer from XCode, copy to a Windows  
> machine, install and run.
>
> David
>
> -- Send from my Jacquard Loom

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[Benoit-3]

Hello,

Le 20 oct. 09, à 09:43, hns@... a écrit :

> And if there is interest in a presentation about QuantumSTEP running
> on the
> latest embedded devices (e.g. Openmoko, Beagleboard), I can prepare
> one.

> I think there are many others reading the list and really an
> impressive number has commented Greg's recent request for improved
> marketing.

        As a lurker on this list, I can say that presentations about :
                - QuantumSTEP on OpenMoko ;
                - GNUstep on Microsoft Windows ;
                - Étoilé ;
        would certainly make me to come.



       





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[Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf]

Am 19.10.2009 um 23:50 schrieb Helge Hess:

> On 16.10.2009, at 00:01, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
>> - If we apply for a dev-room and/or stand will we do a joint  
>> application of GNUstep/Étoilé/OpenGroupware.org like last year or  
>> does somebody have objections? (Helge? ;-))
>
> If the Inverse (Ludo?) people would come, a SOGo booth might make a  
> lot of sense. Otherwise I guess not. I try to come, but can't  
> promise, too much going on over here.

Helge, because I asume you know the Inverse/SOGo people personally,  
could you ask them if they're interested in a joint dev-room  
application for FOSDEM? CC me on that mail please.

>
> Greets,
>   Helge
>

Thanks,

        Lars

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