GTK2 key theme

[Mike McNally-3]

I found a thread from last November about getting in xfce4 the
behavior afforded by having:

  gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"

in the ~/.gtkrc-2.0.mine file.  The answer in the thread was to
(somehow) select "Emacs" in the xfce "keyboard" settings dialog. Well,
when I bring up the "keyboard" settings dialog I see no mention of
Emacs anywhere. Can somebody elaborate on exactly where in that tool
one picks Emacs functionality?

I'm running xfce4.6 on Ubuntu 9.04 if it matters.

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[Stephan Arts-2]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...> wrote:

> I found a thread from last November about getting in xfce4 the
> behavior afforded by having:
>
>  gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
>
> in the ~/.gtkrc-2.0.mine file.  The answer in the thread was to
> (somehow) select "Emacs" in the xfce "keyboard" settings dialog. Well,
> when I bring up the "keyboard" settings dialog I see no mention of
> Emacs anywhere. Can somebody elaborate on exactly where in that tool
> one picks Emacs functionality?
>
> I'm running xfce4.6 on Ubuntu 9.04 if it matters.

xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/KeyThemeName -s Emacs

Option was dropped from the GUI because almost nobody seemed to use
it, you can still set it with the command mentioned above.

-
Stephan
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[Mike McNally-3]

Awesome, thanks very much!


On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Stephan Arts<stephan@...> wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...> wrote:
>> I found a thread from last November about getting in xfce4 the
>> behavior afforded by having:
>>
>>  gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
>>
>> in the ~/.gtkrc-2.0.mine file.  The answer in the thread was to
>> (somehow) select "Emacs" in the xfce "keyboard" settings dialog. Well,
>> when I bring up the "keyboard" settings dialog I see no mention of
>> Emacs anywhere. Can somebody elaborate on exactly where in that tool
>> one picks Emacs functionality?
>>
>> I'm running xfce4.6 on Ubuntu 9.04 if it matters.
>
> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/KeyThemeName -s Emacs
>
> Option was dropped from the GUI because almost nobody seemed to use
> it, you can still set it with the command mentioned above.
>
> -
> Stephan
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce mailing list
> Xfce@...
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
> http://www.xfce.org
>

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[Mike McNally-3]

And it appears one can also do it through the "Settings Editor" UI, by
opening up "xsettings" and navigating to "Gtk  -> KeyThemeName".

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...> wrote:

> Awesome, thanks very much!
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Stephan Arts<stephan@...> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...> wrote:
>>> I found a thread from last November about getting in xfce4 the
>>> behavior afforded by having:
>>>
>>>  gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
>>>
>>> in the ~/.gtkrc-2.0.mine file.  The answer in the thread was to
>>> (somehow) select "Emacs" in the xfce "keyboard" settings dialog. Well,
>>> when I bring up the "keyboard" settings dialog I see no mention of
>>> Emacs anywhere. Can somebody elaborate on exactly where in that tool
>>> one picks Emacs functionality?
>>>
>>> I'm running xfce4.6 on Ubuntu 9.04 if it matters.
>>
>> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/KeyThemeName -s Emacs
>>
>> Option was dropped from the GUI because almost nobody seemed to use
>> it, you can still set it with the command mentioned above.
>>
>> -
>> Stephan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xfce mailing list
>> Xfce@...
>> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
>> http://www.xfce.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Turtle, turtle, on the ground,
> Pink and shiny, turn around.
>

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[Greg Folkert]

On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 23:05 +0200, Stephan Arts wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...> wrote:
> > I found a thread from last November about getting in xfce4 the
> > behavior afforded by having:
> >
> >  gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
> >
> > in the ~/.gtkrc-2.0.mine file.  The answer in the thread was to
> > (somehow) select "Emacs" in the xfce "keyboard" settings dialog. Well,
> > when I bring up the "keyboard" settings dialog I see no mention of
> > Emacs anywhere. Can somebody elaborate on exactly where in that tool
> > one picks Emacs functionality?
> >
> > I'm running xfce4.6 on Ubuntu 9.04 if it matters.
>
> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/KeyThemeName -s Emacs
>
> Option was dropped from the GUI because almost nobody seemed to use
> it, you can still set it with the command mentioned above.

/me points out that this is a bit of a hot pot with his-self.

Since when did you guys start listening to the all knowing, all being,
all directing "Havoc Pennington"... you know they guy that espouses
"Sane Defaults" and "less is more" as far as GUI interfaces...

I moved away from GNOME (post 1.4.x) for anything personal that I can,
still avoiding KDE, as KDE v1.1.x was my favorite.

Please don't fall into that trap.
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[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 2009/07/06 13:26, Greg Folkert wrote:

> On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 23:05 +0200, Stephan Arts wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...>  wrote:
>>> I found a thread from last November about getting in xfce4 the
>>> behavior afforded by having:
>>>
>>>   gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
>>>
>>> in the ~/.gtkrc-2.0.mine file.  The answer in the thread was to
>>> (somehow) select "Emacs" in the xfce "keyboard" settings dialog. Well,
>>> when I bring up the "keyboard" settings dialog I see no mention of
>>> Emacs anywhere. Can somebody elaborate on exactly where in that tool
>>> one picks Emacs functionality?
>>>
>>> I'm running xfce4.6 on Ubuntu 9.04 if it matters.
>> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/KeyThemeName -s Emacs
>>
>> Option was dropped from the GUI because almost nobody seemed to use
>> it, you can still set it with the command mentioned above.
>
> /me points out that this is a bit of a hot pot with his-self.
>
> Since when did you guys start listening to the all knowing, all being,
> all directing "Havoc Pennington"... you know they guy that espouses
> "Sane Defaults" and "less is more" as far as GUI interfaces...

"Sane defaults" is an excellent idea.  Or would you perhaps be a
proponent of "insane" or possibly "ludicrous" defaults?

And sometimes less *is* more.  In this particular case, people were at
times confused as to what the extra keytheme option was for.  Back when
we supported keythemes for keyboard shortcuts (and for WM keyboard
shortcuts), this was even more confusing.  As far as we can tell, most
people don't change the default gtk keytheme.  This is the first time
anyone's asked about it since the option was removed, so I'm feeling
like removing it was a decently good decision.

(Os for your assertion that HP is regarded as "all knowing" or "all
directing," I'll assume you're merely exaggerating for emotional effect.
  I've read a lot of things the man has written: some I agree with, some
I don't.  That applies just as well to pretty much anyone.)

If there's enough noise by enough people, it might get added back.  But
I'd rather not see it come back.  The gtk keytheme setting is a power
user setting.  People who want to set it can figure out how to do so in
their ~/.gtkrc-2.0.

To wit: please don't clutter xfce@ with useless rants.  If you want to
offer constructive feedback, feel free.  Your email basically makes me
want to believe and do the opposite of whatever you suggest, mainly on
principle.  How is that useful?

        -brian
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[Mike McNally-3]

> If there's enough noise by enough people, it might get added back.  But I'd
> rather not see it come back.  The gtk keytheme setting is a power user
> setting.  People who want to set it can figure out how to do so in their
> ~/.gtkrc-2.0.


Nice sentiment, but there's one problem: with xfce, setting the key
theme in the GTK rc file DOES NOT WORK.

The setting MUST be overridden in the xfce configuration.



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[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 2009/07/06 16:27, Mike McNally wrote:
>> If there's enough noise by enough people, it might get added back.  But I'd
>> rather not see it come back.  The gtk keytheme setting is a power user
>> setting.  People who want to set it can figure out how to do so in their
>> ~/.gtkrc-2.0.
>
>
> Nice sentiment, but there's one problem: with xfce, setting the key
> theme in the GTK rc file DOES NOT WORK.

Chill, dude.  No need to shout.

> The setting MUST be overridden in the xfce configuration.

Odd; other gtk settings that are managed by xsettings (such as the
regular theme name, and I believe font size) will look to the rc file
first, and then to xsettings.  Strange that the keytheme works in
reverse.  I'd say that's a gtk bug that it's not consistent.

Regardless, my original point is not invalidated: it's not an often-used
setting, and it's still possible to set it (though not in the way I
assumed).  As time passes, someone may take the time to document the
various 'hidden' xfconf settings and what they do.  Hell, because of how
xfconf works, anyone can write a simple GUI to set some of these.

        -brian
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[Mike McNally-3]

sorry - I didn't mean to shout; well I did but I shouldn't have. I
wasn't so much shouting at you as at the general species of mailing
list.

Personally I don't care how it's set up with xfce; maybe it's a GTK2
bug like you say, but as long as there's *some* way to set it I'm
perfectly happy. The main problem (that triggered this thread) was
that google searches for "how do I get the GTK key theme to work in
xfce" turned up a thread from this list, last November, that described
using the GUI setting. Now that *this* thread exists, hopefully google
searches will find us and the next "me" in the future will be all set.


On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Brian J. Tarricone<brian@...> wrote:

> On 2009/07/06 16:27, Mike McNally wrote:
>>>
>>> If there's enough noise by enough people, it might get added back.  But
>>> I'd
>>> rather not see it come back.  The gtk keytheme setting is a power user
>>> setting.  People who want to set it can figure out how to do so in their
>>> ~/.gtkrc-2.0.
>>
>>
>> Nice sentiment, but there's one problem: with xfce, setting the key
>> theme in the GTK rc file DOES NOT WORK.
>
> Chill, dude.  No need to shout.
>
>> The setting MUST be overridden in the xfce configuration.
>
> Odd; other gtk settings that are managed by xsettings (such as the regular
> theme name, and I believe font size) will look to the rc file first, and
> then to xsettings.  Strange that the keytheme works in reverse.  I'd say
> that's a gtk bug that it's not consistent.
>
> Regardless, my original point is not invalidated: it's not an often-used
> setting, and it's still possible to set it (though not in the way I
> assumed).  As time passes, someone may take the time to document the various
> 'hidden' xfconf settings and what they do.  Hell, because of how xfconf
> works, anyone can write a simple GUI to set some of these.
>
>        -brian
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce mailing list
> Xfce@...
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
> http://www.xfce.org
>

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[Greg Folkert]

On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 15:10 -0700, Brian J. Tarricone wrote:

> On 2009/07/06 13:26, Greg Folkert wrote:
> > On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 23:05 +0200, Stephan Arts wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...>  wrote:
> >>> I found a thread from last November about getting in xfce4 the
> >>> behavior afforded by having:
> >>>
> >>>   gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
> >>>
> >>> in the ~/.gtkrc-2.0.mine file.  The answer in the thread was to
> >>> (somehow) select "Emacs" in the xfce "keyboard" settings dialog. Well,
> >>> when I bring up the "keyboard" settings dialog I see no mention of
> >>> Emacs anywhere. Can somebody elaborate on exactly where in that tool
> >>> one picks Emacs functionality?
> >>>
> >>> I'm running xfce4.6 on Ubuntu 9.04 if it matters.
> >> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/KeyThemeName -s Emacs
> >>
> >> Option was dropped from the GUI because almost nobody seemed to use
> >> it, you can still set it with the command mentioned above.
> >
> > /me points out that this is a bit of a hot pot with his-self.
> >
> > Since when did you guys start listening to the all knowing, all being,
> > all directing "Havoc Pennington"... you know they guy that espouses
> > "Sane Defaults" and "less is more" as far as GUI interfaces...
>
> "Sane defaults" is an excellent idea.  Or would you perhaps be a
> proponent of "insane" or possibly "ludicrous" defaults?

Sane defaults at the expense of broad usability. Yeah. OK.

> And sometimes less *is* more.  In this particular case, people were at
> times confused as to what the extra keytheme option was for.  Back when
> we supported keythemes for keyboard shortcuts (and for WM keyboard
> shortcuts), this was even more confusing.  As far as we can tell, most
> people don't change the default gtk keytheme.  This is the first time
> anyone's asked about it since the option was removed, so I'm feeling
> like removing it was a decently good decision.

My point here was mainly, Removing the ability to configure things with
the GUI, but have to use a second or third or fourth command line tool
to make things the way you want.

And removing functionality regardless of what people that use the
program/system for or how they use it. Make changes regardless of what
people request or suggest (sometimes in bulk).

> (Os for your assertion that HP is regarded as "all knowing" or "all
> directing," I'll assume you're merely exaggerating for emotional effect.
>   I've read a lot of things the man has written: some I agree with, some
> I don't.  That applies just as well to pretty much anyone.)

It was sort of tongue in cheek, but I do think he has some very good
ideas and some are misguided. Overall his implementation of his ideas
and ideals are some what... less than optimal. Not that *I* am any
better.

> If there's enough noise by enough people, it might get added back.  But
> I'd rather not see it come back.  The gtk keytheme setting is a power
> user setting.  People who want to set it can figure out how to do so in
> their ~/.gtkrc-2.0.

Never suggested it had to go back, I questioned the decision to make the
feature get removed, period.

> To wit: please don't clutter xfce@ with useless rants.  If you want to
> offer constructive feedback, feel free.  Your email basically makes me
> want to believe and do the opposite of whatever you suggest, mainly on
> principle.  How is that useful?

Hmmm, spite, a wonderful tool. I personally only wanted to make sure you
and the other core developers don't fall into making changes just
because you can and refuse to take suggestions.

You shall hear no more on this subject from me. I've made it clear, and
I agree a "useless" rant about HP and his ideals aren't for this list.
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