Getting started

[Peter_Ford]

I'm doing an evaluation of Turbine as a possible framework for our own
development, but I've run into a bit of a wall because I'm having problems
finding a simple "getting started" application that I can download and use.
What I'm looking for is a tutorial or something similar that takes you
through the steps - how to write Actions, Pages, Layouts, Screens etc., set
up the properties file and so on. Anything that spends 90% of the time
telling how to build something using Maven 1 is a no-hoper because Maven is
not an option for us (which means that if Turbine *requires* Maven, we
won't be able to use it); I need code samples, template samples, config
property file samples. Is there anything available?


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[Juergen Hoffmann-2]

Hi Peter,

have you tried setting up a project using META (Maven Environment for
Turbine Applications)? I nunderstand that maven is not an option for you,
but you can use it to get a head start project Layout.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Februar 2009 22:53
> An: user@...
> Betreff: Getting started
>
>
> I'm doing an evaluation of Turbine as a possible framework for our own
> development, but I've run into a bit of a wall because I'm having
> problems
> finding a simple "getting started" application that I can download and
> use.
> What I'm looking for is a tutorial or something similar that takes you
> through the steps - how to write Actions, Pages, Layouts, Screens etc.,
> set
> up the properties file and so on. Anything that spends 90% of the time
> telling how to build something using Maven 1 is a no-hoper because
> Maven is
> not an option for us (which means that if Turbine *requires* Maven, we
> won't be able to use it); I need code samples, template samples, config
> property file samples. Is there anything available?
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...

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[Peter_Ford]

It took a while because I had to find a machine where I could temporarily
set up Maven. Following the instructions on the Meta pages I installed
Maven 1 & Meta then entered the command from the page:

> maven -Dturbine.app.name=helloworld turbine:setup
 __  __
|  \/  |__ _Apache__ ___
| |\/| / _` \ V / -_) ' \  ~ intelligent projects ~
|_|  |_\__,_|\_/\___|_||_|  v. 1.1

WARNING: No pom file was found, assuming default settings!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Error parsing project.xml
'/home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
>> ParseError at [row,col]:[113,13]
Message: Duplicated tag: 'versions'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUILD FAILED
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total time   : 0 seconds
Finished at  : Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:27:59 AM MST
Final Memory : 1M/7M
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I can't get this working very quickly (tomorrow, latest), I won't be
able to complete an evaluation of Turbine and we won't be able to make use
of it, which is a shame because it was looking very promising. (The
evaluation report will read something like, "We couldn't evaluate it
because we couldn't download useful samples or documentation".)



                                                                       
             "Juergen                                                  
             Hoffmann"                                                
             <hoffmann@apache.                                          To
             org>                      "'Turbine Users List'"          
                                       <user@...>      
             02/27/2009 03:10                                           cc
             PM                                                        
                                                                   Subject
                                       AW: Getting started            
             Please respond to                                        
              "Turbine Users                                          
                   List"                                              
             <user@...                                        
                 che.org>                                              
                                                                       
                                                                       




Hi Peter,

have you tried setting up a project using META (Maven Environment for
Turbine Applications)? I nunderstand that maven is not an option for you,
but you can use it to get a head start project Layout.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Februar 2009 22:53
> An: user@...
> Betreff: Getting started
>
>
> I'm doing an evaluation of Turbine as a possible framework for our own
> development, but I've run into a bit of a wall because I'm having
> problems
> finding a simple "getting started" application that I can download and
> use.
> What I'm looking for is a tutorial or something similar that takes you
> through the steps - how to write Actions, Pages, Layouts, Screens etc.,
> set
> up the properties file and so on. Anything that spends 90% of the time
> telling how to build something using Maven 1 is a no-hoper because
> Maven is
> not an option for us (which means that if Turbine *requires* Maven, we
> won't be able to use it); I need code samples, template samples, config
> property file samples. Is there anything available?
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...

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[Ludwig Magnusson-4]

Find the specified file:
/home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
Open it and remove the tag at the specified location ([row,col]:[113,13])
/Ludwig

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
Sent: den 3 mars 2009 16:37
To: Turbine Users List
Subject: Re: AW: Getting started

It took a while because I had to find a machine where I could temporarily
set up Maven. Following the instructions on the Meta pages I installed
Maven 1 & Meta then entered the command from the page:

> maven -Dturbine.app.name=helloworld turbine:setup
 __  __
|  \/  |__ _Apache__ ___
| |\/| / _` \ V / -_) ' \  ~ intelligent projects ~
|_|  |_\__,_|\_/\___|_||_|  v. 1.1

WARNING: No pom file was found, assuming default settings!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>> Error parsing project.xml
'/home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
>> ParseError at [row,col]:[113,13]
Message: Duplicated tag: 'versions'
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
BUILD FAILED
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Total time   : 0 seconds
Finished at  : Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:27:59 AM MST
Final Memory : 1M/7M
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

If I can't get this working very quickly (tomorrow, latest), I won't be
able to complete an evaluation of Turbine and we won't be able to make use
of it, which is a shame because it was looking very promising. (The
evaluation report will read something like, "We couldn't evaluate it
because we couldn't download useful samples or documentation".)



                                                                           
             "Juergen                                                      
             Hoffmann"                                                    
             <hoffmann@apache.                                          To
             org>                      "'Turbine Users List'"              
                                       <user@...>          
             02/27/2009 03:10                                           cc
             PM                                                            
                                                                   Subject
                                       AW: Getting started                
             Please respond to                                            
              "Turbine Users                                              
                   List"                                                  
             <user@...                                            
                 che.org>                                                  
                                                                           
                                                                           




Hi Peter,

have you tried setting up a project using META (Maven Environment for
Turbine Applications)? I nunderstand that maven is not an option for you,
but you can use it to get a head start project Layout.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Februar 2009 22:53
> An: user@...
> Betreff: Getting started
>
>
> I'm doing an evaluation of Turbine as a possible framework for our own
> development, but I've run into a bit of a wall because I'm having
> problems
> finding a simple "getting started" application that I can download and
> use.
> What I'm looking for is a tutorial or something similar that takes you
> through the steps - how to write Actions, Pages, Layouts, Screens etc.,
> set
> up the properties file and so on. Anything that spends 90% of the time
> telling how to build something using Maven 1 is a no-hoper because
> Maven is
> not an option for us (which means that if Turbine *requires* Maven, we
> won't be able to use it); I need code samples, template samples, config
> property file samples. Is there anything available?
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...

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[Peter_Ford]

That fixed the build, but it concerns me that the download is broken. Also,
when I ran it, it created a directory structure but there are *no* Java
sources - no examples of how to write an Action or a Layout or a Page.
There are a number of configuration files, but without some user
documentation they don't help. In short, while this example may be intended
to demonstrate what Turbine can do it does nothing to explain how to use
it. As part of my evaluation I need to use Turbine to create a small web
application from scratch, to see how it's done and how easy it is; I'm no
closer to being able to do that than I was this time last week.

I hate to say this, but: the Velocity pages have a user guide, a developer
guide and sample code, while the Turbine pages have nothing beyond a set of
instructions for using Maven to build a demo - no code samples, no
tutorial. This is extremely disappointing because from what I've been able
to see so far, Turbine might otherwise have been a good solution for us (in
particular, we wouldn't have had to worry so much about the authentication
and roles management, since that appears to be done for you). As it is,
unless I can find something usable in the next few hours I'm not going to
have time to do the evaluation I was asked for (it's expected by the end of
the week) and as such Turbine will not be an option, and that's a shame.



                                                                           
             "Ludwig                                                      
             Magnusson"                                                    
             <ludwig@greenstre                                          To
             etconsulting.se>          "'Turbine Users List'"              
                                       <user@...>          
             03/03/2009 10:33                                           cc
             AM                                                            
                                                                   Subject
                                       RE: AW: Getting started            
             Please respond to                                            
              "Turbine Users                                              
                   List"                                                  
             <user@...                                            
                 che.org>                                                  
                                                                           
                                                                           




Find the specified file:
/home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
Open it and remove the tag at the specified location ([row,col]:[113,13])
/Ludwig



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[Juergen Hoffmann-2]

Hi Peter,

have you followed the instructions from
http://turbine.apache.org/meta/getting_started.html after your build was
fixed? Especially enter the helloworld directory and type maven
turbine:deploy ?

It is crucial to understand how the layout was meant to be. It is explained
here

http://turbine.apache.org/meta/tree.html

Meta supports 2 different development Lifecycles. They are explained on this
Page http://turbine.apache.org/meta/using_meta.html

I have used turbine always inplace, which gave me the possibility to keep
Tomcat running and develop right away, and see the results. Plus do
debugging inside my IDE.

If you intend to use Meta with eclipse I recommend reading
http://turbine.apache.org/meta/ide.html

M.E.T.A. is the way to get you Kickstarted, since the TDK (Turbine
Development Kit) is deprecated.

HTH

Juergen

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. März 2009 20:06
> An: Turbine Users List
> Betreff: RE: AW: Getting started
>
> That fixed the build, but it concerns me that the download is broken.
> Also,
> when I ran it, it created a directory structure but there are *no* Java
> sources - no examples of how to write an Action or a Layout or a Page.
> There are a number of configuration files, but without some user
> documentation they don't help. In short, while this example may be
> intended
> to demonstrate what Turbine can do it does nothing to explain how to
> use
> it. As part of my evaluation I need to use Turbine to create a small
> web
> application from scratch, to see how it's done and how easy it is; I'm
> no
> closer to being able to do that than I was this time last week.
>
> I hate to say this, but: the Velocity pages have a user guide, a
> developer
> guide and sample code, while the Turbine pages have nothing beyond a
> set of
> instructions for using Maven to build a demo - no code samples, no
> tutorial. This is extremely disappointing because from what I've been
> able
> to see so far, Turbine might otherwise have been a good solution for us
> (in
> particular, we wouldn't have had to worry so much about the
> authentication
> and roles management, since that appears to be done for you). As it is,
> unless I can find something usable in the next few hours I'm not going
> to
> have time to do the evaluation I was asked for (it's expected by the
> end of
> the week) and as such Turbine will not be an option, and that's a
> shame.
>
>
>
>
>              "Ludwig
>              Magnusson"
>              <ludwig@greenstre
> To
>              etconsulting.se>          "'Turbine Users List'"
>                                        <user@...>
>              03/03/2009 10:33
> cc
>              AM
>
> Subject
>                                        RE: AW: Getting started
>              Please respond to
>               "Turbine Users
>                    List"
>              <user@...
>                  che.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Find the specified file:
> /home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
> Open it and remove the tag at the specified location
> ([row,col]:[113,13])
> /Ludwig
>
>
>
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[Peter_Ford]

Yes, I tried the turbine:deploy step but it failed because it was unable to
download the JavaMail and Activation Framework jars (which I have,
actually, but I don't understand Maven well enough to know how I can push
these into the repository).

But that's not the point. I have to point out that I'm trying to evaluate
Turbine, not Meta or Maven, and I don't time to fix these or even to spend
the time understanding them - right now, either they work and get the
Turbine app built, or they don't. We have no use for these, and if it's not
possible to build a Turbine app without one or both then that's the end of
it. But most important is that without sources, the demo is worthless. As I
pointed out earlier, Velocity (and Betwixt, and Digester, and
Configuration...) have sample code and simple instructions that can get you
working with them in a few hours at most. Turbine is *BADLY* lacking in not
having something similar; I should have been able to use Turbine the same
day I started looking at it, but six days on it's still a closed book.

It is looking very, very doubtful that we'll be able to take on Turbine
here; even if by some miracle I can get the demo working, the lack of any
real tutorial or code samples is almost certain to kill even the the idea
of using it stone dead.

Pete



                                                                       
             "Juergen                                                  
             Hoffmann"                                                
             <hoffmann@apache.                                          To
             org>                      "'Turbine Users List'"          
                                       <user@...>      
             03/03/2009 12:34                                           cc
             PM                                                        
                                                                   Subject
                                       AW: AW: Getting started        
             Please respond to                                        
              "Turbine Users                                          
                   List"                                              
             <user@...                                        
                 che.org>                                              
                                                                       
                                                                       




Hi Peter,

have you followed the instructions from
http://turbine.apache.org/meta/getting_started.html after your build was
fixed? Especially enter the helloworld directory and type maven
turbine:deploy ?

It is crucial to understand how the layout was meant to be. It is explained
here

http://turbine.apache.org/meta/tree.html

Meta supports 2 different development Lifecycles. They are explained on
this
Page http://turbine.apache.org/meta/using_meta.html

I have used turbine always inplace, which gave me the possibility to keep
Tomcat running and develop right away, and see the results. Plus do
debugging inside my IDE.

If you intend to use Meta with eclipse I recommend reading
http://turbine.apache.org/meta/ide.html

M.E.T.A. is the way to get you Kickstarted, since the TDK (Turbine
Development Kit) is deprecated.

HTH

Juergen

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. März 2009 20:06
> An: Turbine Users List
> Betreff: RE: AW: Getting started
>
> That fixed the build, but it concerns me that the download is broken.
> Also,
> when I ran it, it created a directory structure but there are *no* Java
> sources - no examples of how to write an Action or a Layout or a Page.
> There are a number of configuration files, but without some user
> documentation they don't help. In short, while this example may be
> intended
> to demonstrate what Turbine can do it does nothing to explain how to
> use
> it. As part of my evaluation I need to use Turbine to create a small
> web
> application from scratch, to see how it's done and how easy it is; I'm
> no
> closer to being able to do that than I was this time last week.
>
> I hate to say this, but: the Velocity pages have a user guide, a
> developer
> guide and sample code, while the Turbine pages have nothing beyond a
> set of
> instructions for using Maven to build a demo - no code samples, no
> tutorial. This is extremely disappointing because from what I've been
> able
> to see so far, Turbine might otherwise have been a good solution for us
> (in
> particular, we wouldn't have had to worry so much about the
> authentication
> and roles management, since that appears to be done for you). As it is,
> unless I can find something usable in the next few hours I'm not going
> to
> have time to do the evaluation I was asked for (it's expected by the
> end of
> the week) and as such Turbine will not be an option, and that's a
> shame.
>
>
>
>
>              "Ludwig
>              Magnusson"
>              <ludwig@greenstre
> To
>              etconsulting.se>          "'Turbine Users List'"
>                                        <user@...>
>              03/03/2009 10:33
> cc
>              AM
>
> Subject
>                                        RE: AW: Getting started
>              Please respond to
>               "Turbine Users
>                    List"
>              <user@...
>                  che.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Find the specified file:
> /home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
> Open it and remove the tag at the specified location
> ([row,col]:[113,13])
> /Ludwig
>
>
>
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[Juergen Hoffmann-2]

Hi, see below...

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. März 2009 20:55
> An: Turbine Users List
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Getting started
>
> Yes, I tried the turbine:deploy step but it failed because it was
> unable to
> download the JavaMail and Activation Framework jars (which I have,
> actually, but I don't understand Maven well enough to know how I can
> push
> these into the repository).

[JH> ]
[JH> ] find your user.home/.maven/repository directory underneath it you
should find a directory javax.mail and javax.activation. Put the jars in the
jars folder inside of each directory.

>
> But that's not the point. I have to point out that I'm trying to
> evaluate
> Turbine, not Meta or Maven, and I don't time to fix these or even to
> spend
> the time understanding them - right now, either they work and get the
> Turbine app built, or they don't. We have no use for these, and if it's
> not
> possible to build a Turbine app without one or both then that's the end
> of
> it. But most important is that without sources, the demo is worthless.
> As I
> pointed out earlier, Velocity (and Betwixt, and Digester, and
> Configuration...) have sample code and simple instructions that can get
> you
> working with them in a few hours at most. Turbine is *BADLY* lacking in
> not
> having something similar; I should have been able to use Turbine the
> same
> day I started looking at it, but six days on it's still a closed book.

[JH> ] I agree with you in the point that we are lacking documentation. But
generating it would take weeks if not months. You said you only have today.
I am not a magician, just some guy sitting at home in his free time, trying
to help you get it up and running quickly. That is why I said use it.

[JH> ] It seems to me as if you want to testdrive a Ferrari. You look around
and find no user manual. You go to the salesman and say hey, there is no
user manual, I cannot use it. The Salesman says: "Yes I understand this is a
problem, but all the development went into the car, there were no resources
left to generate the user manual. We are terribly sorry about the fact. But
let me help you start the car. Turn the Key, Hit the Clutch, Push down the
Gas. Play with the gas, that will keep it running." So you go and try, but
fail, because (of course) the car is new, you stall the engine. So you again
go to the salesman and say "I cannot get it running. Why is there no manual?
All other cars I tried have one!" So the salesman says "Yes sir, I
understand. Sorry, but we have had no more resources for the manual. We had
to create the cheapest Ferrari on the Market. It is the fastest in getting
up to 100km/h. It will help you get to your target faster than any other car
you tried. Let me help you once more..." Like with the Ferrari it takes time
to know turbine. But once you know it, it will get you to your target
quicker than any other framework, because of all the features out of the
box.

> It is looking very, very doubtful that we'll be able to take on Turbine
> here; even if by some miracle I can get the demo working, the lack of
> any
> real tutorial or code samples is almost certain to kill even the the
> idea
> of using it stone dead.
>
> Pete
[JH> ] I am very sad that you will not take the time to try to get the
engine running again.

[JH> ] Maybe you will find time to review turbine at a later point. Maybe
then we will have had the resources to generate the user manual.

If I can still be of help to you let me know.

Kind regards

Juergen


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[Peter_Ford]

Hi again,

First, I'm not suggesting that someone should magic some documentation just
for me. What I'm saying is that it's disappointing that no user docs are
available, and it makes Turbine pretty much impossible to get started with.

Second, the Ferrari analogy isn't really a good one. Think instead of new
hi-tech machine that can make beautiful pictures, but it's complicated; and
you look in the user manual and the only instructions are to tell you how
to download a picture that someone made using this wonderful machine. It
doesn't even tell you where the on-off switch is, let alone how to use it
to make your own pictures.

To get back to practicalities - assuming I copy the mail.jar and
activation.jar files into place and run Maven again: is that going to get
sources from somewhere so that I can figure out how to use Turbine? I'll
try it and see but I'm not hopeful, and as I've mentioned, if this demo
doesn't contain some information that shows someone new to Turbine how to
build an application, it's all but useless. To put it another way: imagine
trying to learn how to use Velocity when all you have is the jar file and
the javadocs; how far do you think you'd get?

Pete



                                                                       
             "Juergen                                                  
             Hoffmann"                                                
             <hoffmann@apache.                                          To
             org>                      "'Turbine Users List'"          
                                       <user@...>      
             03/03/2009 01:37                                           cc
             PM                                                        
                                                                   Subject
                                       RE: Getting started            
             Please respond to                                        
              "Turbine Users                                          
                   List"                                              
             <user@...                                        
                 che.org>                                              
                                                                       
                                                                       




Hi, see below...

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. März 2009 20:55
> An: Turbine Users List
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Getting started
>
> Yes, I tried the turbine:deploy step but it failed because it was
> unable to
> download the JavaMail and Activation Framework jars (which I have,
> actually, but I don't understand Maven well enough to know how I can
> push
> these into the repository).

[JH> ]
[JH> ] find your user.home/.maven/repository directory underneath it you
should find a directory javax.mail and javax.activation. Put the jars in
the
jars folder inside of each directory.

>
> But that's not the point. I have to point out that I'm trying to
> evaluate
> Turbine, not Meta or Maven, and I don't time to fix these or even to
> spend
> the time understanding them - right now, either they work and get the
> Turbine app built, or they don't. We have no use for these, and if it's
> not
> possible to build a Turbine app without one or both then that's the end
> of
> it. But most important is that without sources, the demo is worthless.
> As I
> pointed out earlier, Velocity (and Betwixt, and Digester, and
> Configuration...) have sample code and simple instructions that can get
> you
> working with them in a few hours at most. Turbine is *BADLY* lacking in
> not
> having something similar; I should have been able to use Turbine the
> same
> day I started looking at it, but six days on it's still a closed book.

[JH> ] I agree with you in the point that we are lacking documentation. But
generating it would take weeks if not months. You said you only have today.
I am not a magician, just some guy sitting at home in his free time, trying
to help you get it up and running quickly. That is why I said use it.

[JH> ] It seems to me as if you want to testdrive a Ferrari. You look
around
and find no user manual. You go to the salesman and say hey, there is no
user manual, I cannot use it. The Salesman says: "Yes I understand this is
a
problem, but all the development went into the car, there were no resources
left to generate the user manual. We are terribly sorry about the fact. But
let me help you start the car. Turn the Key, Hit the Clutch, Push down the
Gas. Play with the gas, that will keep it running." So you go and try, but
fail, because (of course) the car is new, you stall the engine. So you
again
go to the salesman and say "I cannot get it running. Why is there no
manual?
All other cars I tried have one!" So the salesman says "Yes sir, I
understand. Sorry, but we have had no more resources for the manual. We had
to create the cheapest Ferrari on the Market. It is the fastest in getting
up to 100km/h. It will help you get to your target faster than any other
car
you tried. Let me help you once more..." Like with the Ferrari it takes
time
to know turbine. But once you know it, it will get you to your target
quicker than any other framework, because of all the features out of the
box.

> It is looking very, very doubtful that we'll be able to take on Turbine
> here; even if by some miracle I can get the demo working, the lack of
> any
> real tutorial or code samples is almost certain to kill even the the
> idea
> of using it stone dead.
>
> Pete
[JH> ] I am very sad that you will not take the time to try to get the
engine running again.

[JH> ] Maybe you will find time to review turbine at a later point. Maybe
then we will have had the resources to generate the user manual.

If I can still be of help to you let me know.

Kind regards

Juergen


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[Juergen Hoffmann-2]

Hi Peter,

I totally agree with you that the project is lacking good getting started
documentation.

The analogy that is right depends on each ones point of view. Mine has its
truth, but I admit yours does too.

Please try to copy the jars to the position and give it a try. Turbine seems
to be very complicated, and in deed to get a first running setup is hard and
cumbersome, but that is solely because of licensing issues. Let me advice
you, that if you run into issues where some jars cannot be found or
downloaded, there is one more place to look. http://turbine.apache.org/repo/
If you were into maven a bit more, I would elaborate, but since you may not
use maven its worthless.

Thanks for pointing us to the bug within meta. I will look into it myself,
and double check.

Maybe if I can find the time, I will start writing some getting started
Stuff. As frustrating as it is for you, it is for me to sit here and not
being able to get started on turbine.

Please let us know if you got a working setup.

Kind regards

Juergen

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. März 2009 23:37
> An: Turbine Users List
> Betreff: RE: Getting started
>
> Hi again,
>
> First, I'm not suggesting that someone should magic some documentation
> just
> for me. What I'm saying is that it's disappointing that no user docs
> are
> available, and it makes Turbine pretty much impossible to get started
> with.
>
> Second, the Ferrari analogy isn't really a good one. Think instead of
> new
> hi-tech machine that can make beautiful pictures, but it's complicated;
> and
> you look in the user manual and the only instructions are to tell you
> how
> to download a picture that someone made using this wonderful machine.
> It
> doesn't even tell you where the on-off switch is, let alone how to use
> it
> to make your own pictures.
>
> To get back to practicalities - assuming I copy the mail.jar and
> activation.jar files into place and run Maven again: is that going to
> get
> sources from somewhere so that I can figure out how to use Turbine?
> I'll
> try it and see but I'm not hopeful, and as I've mentioned, if this demo
> doesn't contain some information that shows someone new to Turbine how
> to
> build an application, it's all but useless. To put it another way:
> imagine
> trying to learn how to use Velocity when all you have is the jar file
> and
> the javadocs; how far do you think you'd get?
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>              "Juergen
>              Hoffmann"
>              <hoffmann@apache.
> To
>              org>                      "'Turbine Users List'"
>                                        <user@...>
>              03/03/2009 01:37
> cc
>              PM
>
> Subject
>                                        RE: Getting started
>              Please respond to
>               "Turbine Users
>                    List"
>              <user@...
>                  che.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi, see below...
>
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Peter_Ford@... [mailto:Peter_Ford@...]
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. März 2009 20:55
> > An: Turbine Users List
> > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Getting started
> >
> > Yes, I tried the turbine:deploy step but it failed because it was
> > unable to
> > download the JavaMail and Activation Framework jars (which I have,
> > actually, but I don't understand Maven well enough to know how I can
> > push
> > these into the repository).
>
> [JH> ]
> [JH> ] find your user.home/.maven/repository directory underneath it
> you
> should find a directory javax.mail and javax.activation. Put the jars
> in
> the
> jars folder inside of each directory.
>
> >
> > But that's not the point. I have to point out that I'm trying to
> > evaluate
> > Turbine, not Meta or Maven, and I don't time to fix these or even to
> > spend
> > the time understanding them - right now, either they work and get the
> > Turbine app built, or they don't. We have no use for these, and if
> it's
> > not
> > possible to build a Turbine app without one or both then that's the
> end
> > of
> > it. But most important is that without sources, the demo is
> worthless.
> > As I
> > pointed out earlier, Velocity (and Betwixt, and Digester, and
> > Configuration...) have sample code and simple instructions that can
> get
> > you
> > working with them in a few hours at most. Turbine is *BADLY* lacking
> in
> > not
> > having something similar; I should have been able to use Turbine the
> > same
> > day I started looking at it, but six days on it's still a closed
> book.
>
> [JH> ] I agree with you in the point that we are lacking documentation.
> But
> generating it would take weeks if not months. You said you only have
> today.
> I am not a magician, just some guy sitting at home in his free time,
> trying
> to help you get it up and running quickly. That is why I said use it.
>
> [JH> ] It seems to me as if you want to testdrive a Ferrari. You look
> around
> and find no user manual. You go to the salesman and say hey, there is
> no
> user manual, I cannot use it. The Salesman says: "Yes I understand this
> is
> a
> problem, but all the development went into the car, there were no
> resources
> left to generate the user manual. We are terribly sorry about the fact.
> But
> let me help you start the car. Turn the Key, Hit the Clutch, Push down
> the
> Gas. Play with the gas, that will keep it running." So you go and try,
> but
> fail, because (of course) the car is new, you stall the engine. So you
> again
> go to the salesman and say "I cannot get it running. Why is there no
> manual?
> All other cars I tried have one!" So the salesman says "Yes sir, I
> understand. Sorry, but we have had no more resources for the manual. We
> had
> to create the cheapest Ferrari on the Market. It is the fastest in
> getting
> up to 100km/h. It will help you get to your target faster than any
> other
> car
> you tried. Let me help you once more..." Like with the Ferrari it takes
> time
> to know turbine. But once you know it, it will get you to your target
> quicker than any other framework, because of all the features out of
> the
> box.
>
> > It is looking very, very doubtful that we'll be able to take on
> Turbine
> > here; even if by some miracle I can get the demo working, the lack of
> > any
> > real tutorial or code samples is almost certain to kill even the the
> > idea
> > of using it stone dead.
> >
> > Pete
> [JH> ] I am very sad that you will not take the time to try to get the
> engine running again.
>
> [JH> ] Maybe you will find time to review turbine at a later point.
> Maybe
> then we will have had the resources to generate the user manual.
>
> If I can still be of help to you let me know.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Juergen
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
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[Peter_Ford]

It took a little messing about but I got the build working. Dropping the
JavaMail and JAF jars into place didn't fix it; what *did* fix it was
modifying the project.xml file so that it picked up newer versions of these
packages. I'm guessing that the Maven repository no longer carries JavaMail
1.3.3 or JAF 1.0.2, since they're basically obsolete - changing to JavaMail
1.4.1 and JAF 1.1 did the trick.

So it deployed into my local Tomcat and worked fine. However the only
sources in the tree after the build appear to be some that were
auto-generated by Torque; no actions, layouts, screens etc. As such the
demo tells me nothing of any use as far as learning to use Turbine. Ah,
well...

There's no real point me going forward as far as my evaluation is concerned
- I can push as hard as I like, telling people that Turbine would be a good
solution here, but it won't do any good without some documentation to get
the other developers kick-started with using it. As such, it won't get any
traction.

However I'm still very interested in it and I think it's worth persevering
with, so here's what I'm going to do: first, I'll remove this email address
from the mailing list and re-subscribe with my personal addy. Then I'll
find whatever materials I can and try to work up a kick-start app and an
accompanying quickstart document. If that works out I'll donate the
materials here. Don't hold your breath - I'll be doing this on personal
time so it may take a while - but if Turbine is as good as I think it
really is, then perhaps this is a way I can make a real contribution. And
hell, later down the road maybe I'll help fill in some of the blanks on the
Wiki pages :)


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[Sheldon Ross]

I think a setup guide/simple example would greatly help out. In fact, even though I maintain and work on a couple different turbine projects everyday, I've never actually set one up from scratch. They were all set-up before my time.
I have worked for a company using Struts, and I am currently supporting another project in DJango, and I can definitely say I prefer Turbine to either of them.

Sheldon Ross

> Subject: Re: AW: Getting started
> To: user@...
> From: Peter_Ford@...
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:46:30 -0700
>
> It took a little messing about but I got the build working. Dropping the
> JavaMail and JAF jars into place didn't fix it; what *did* fix it was
> modifying the project.xml file so that it picked up newer versions of these
> packages. I'm guessing that the Maven repository no longer carries JavaMail
> 1.3.3 or JAF 1.0.2, since they're basically obsolete - changing to JavaMail
> 1.4.1 and JAF 1.1 did the trick.
>
> So it deployed into my local Tomcat and worked fine. However the only
> sources in the tree after the build appear to be some that were
> auto-generated by Torque; no actions, layouts, screens etc. As such the
> demo tells me nothing of any use as far as learning to use Turbine. Ah,
> well...
>
> There's no real point me going forward as far as my evaluation is concerned
> - I can push as hard as I like, telling people that Turbine would be a good
> solution here, but it won't do any good without some documentation to get
> the other developers kick-started with using it. As such, it won't get any
> traction.
>
> However I'm still very interested in it and I think it's worth persevering
> with, so here's what I'm going to do: first, I'll remove this email address
> from the mailing list and re-subscribe with my personal addy. Then I'll
> find whatever materials I can and try to work up a kick-start app and an
> accompanying quickstart document. If that works out I'll donate the
> materials here. Don't hold your breath - I'll be doing this on personal
> time so it may take a while - but if Turbine is as good as I think it
> really is, then perhaps this is a way I can make a real contribution. And
> hell, later down the road maybe I'll help fill in some of the blanks on the
> Wiki pages :)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>

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[DavidWZ]

Ludwig Magnusson <ludwig <at> greenstreetconsulting.se> writes:

>
> Find the specified file:
> /home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
> Open it and remove the tag at the specified location ([row,col]:[113,13])
> /Ludwig
>

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >> Error parsing project.xml
> '/home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
> >> ParseError at [row,col]:[113,13]
> Message: Duplicated tag: 'versions'
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> BUILD FAILED
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> Total time   : 0 seconds
> Finished at  : Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:27:59 AM MST
> Final Memory : 1M/7M
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>

I did exactly as Ludwig pointed out, but I still get the same error, even though
the version tags were physically removed. Is it cached somewhere? Has anybody
ever gotten this META thing to work?!
Thanks,

David


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[Jeffery Painter]

I ended up checking out the latest 1.5-dev from SVN and built it myself.
If you just want to download my binary though, you can get it here:

http://jivecast.com/repo/maven-turbine-plugin-1.5-dev.jar

Once you have downloaded the jar, put it in $MAVEN_HOME/plugins or the
plugins subdirectory under the Maven folder installed in Program Files on
Windows, so it will be available for use when calling turbine targets.

This version is compatible with Turbine version 2.3.3.

You should be able to follow M.E.T.A. instructions for putting a new app
together from there.

Make sure you remove any references to the old plugin from your repository
if you run into any problems (I'm not sure if there are clear instructions
on how to clean up from an old install anywhere).


--
Jeffery Painter

>
> Ludwig Magnusson <ludwig <at> greenstreetconsulting.se> writes:
>
>>
>> Find the specified file:
>> /home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
>> Open it and remove the tag at the specified location
>> ([row,col]:[113,13])
>> /Ludwig
>>
>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> >> Error parsing project.xml
>> '/home/epldev/.maven/cache/maven-turbine-plugin-1.3/project.xml'
>> >> ParseError at [row,col]:[113,13]
>> Message: Duplicated tag: 'versions'
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> BUILD FAILED
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> Total time   : 0 seconds
>> Finished at  : Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:27:59 AM MST
>> Final Memory : 1M/7M
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>>
> I did exactly as Ludwig pointed out, but I still get the same error, even
> though
> the version tags were physically removed. Is it cached somewhere? Has
> anybody
> ever gotten this META thing to work?!
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>
>

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