Nabble - Gnome - Accessibility

Announce: Caribou 0.0.1

2009-12-01T16:25:13Z

Announcing the first release of Caribou!

What is Caribou
===============

Caribou is a text entry and UI navigation application being developed as
an alternative to the Gnome On-screen Keyboard. Caribou will focus on
creating a usable solution for people whose primary way of accessing a
computer is a switch device. More information about Caribou can be found
here:

http://live.gnome.org/Caribou

Downloading Caribou
===================

http://bagu.org/scratch/caribou-0.0.1.tar.bz2

Contributing to Caribou
=======================

For now the code resides in my personal git repository until I can get
it into the GNOME repository:

http://bagu.org/projects/?a=summary&p=caribou

You can clone this repository by running the following command:

git clone http://bagu.org/projects/caribou.git

Feel free to contact me with any questions, comments or suggestions.
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Announce: AT-SPI2 0.1.3 released.

2009-11-30T09:28:06Z

AT-SPI2 0.1.3 is now available for download at:

http://download.gnome.org/sources/pyatspi/0.1/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-core/0.1/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-atk/0.1/

Notes
=====

This is a development release of AT-SPI2, it has some unfinished
features.

A list of work required before the a full release can be found at:

http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation

What's changed in AT-SPI2 0.1.3
===============================

Pyatspi:
* Change method names to comply with D-Bus specification.

* API changes needed for out-of-process accessible objects.

* Re-introduction of re-entrant D-Bus methods using pool of
gobject main loops.

* Remove incorrect configure dependency on dbind and droute.

Core:
* Change method names to comply with D-Bus specification.

* API changes needed for out-of process accessible objects.

Atk:
* Change method names to comply with D-Bus specification.

* Support for AtkSocket and AtkPlug.

* API changes needed for out-of process accessible objects.

* Fix for event details - have the generic event handler pass
on details when present.

What is AT-SPI2
===============

AT-SPI2 is a D-Bus based accessibility framework. It defines a D-Bus
protocol for providing and accessing application accessibility
information. The project includes a library for bridging the D-Bus
protocol to the ATK API, allowing Gtk based applications to be made
accessible. It also contains a client (AT) side library in Python.

Where can I get more information about AT-SPI2
==============================================

The project wiki is available at:

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/ATK/AT-SPI/AT-SPI_on_D-Bus

A page detailing the project plan can be found at:

http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation

How can I contribute to AT-SPI2?
================================

AT-SPI2 is currently a small but valuable project. We are actively
seeking new contributors, all help is greatly appreciated. If
interested, please get in touch via:

IRC : 'atspidbus' on Gimpnet
E-Mail: accessibility-atspi@...

Development repositories can be found at:

git://git.gnome.org/pyatspi2
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-core
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-atk

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - Dev

ANNOUNCE: atk 1.29.3

2009-11-30T00:52:19Z

=======================
* What is atk?
=======================

The interface definitions of accessibility infrastructure.

========================================
* What's changed for atk 1.29.3?
========================================

Fix: 601552 - Need a way to denote out-of-process accessibles.

=====================
* Where can I get it?
=====================

Source code:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/atk/1.29/atk-1.29.3.tar.gz
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/atk/1.29/atk-1.29.3.tar.bz2

Enjoy!
Li

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

ANNOUNCE: at-spi 1.29.3

2009-11-30T00:52:05Z

=======================
* What is at-spi?
=======================

at-spi (assistive technology service provider interface) is the primary
assistive technology infrastructure for the Solaris and Linux
operating environments. Applications and toolkits supporting the
AT-SPI include the GNOME GTK+ toolkit, the Java platform's Swing
toolkit, OpenOffice, and Mozilla.

========================================
* What's changed for at-spi 1.29.3?
========================================

Bug fix:
#565451 - libspi/listener.c does not compile with -DSPI_DEBUG=1
#593830 - Fix misnamed autostart file.
Translation update:
Estonian, Slovenian, German, Spanish, Greek, Catalan

=====================
* Where can I get it?
=====================

Source code:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/at-spi/1.29/at-spi-1.29.3.tar.gz
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/at-spi/1.29/at-spi-1.29.3.tar.bz2

Enjoy,
Li

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Accerciser 1.9.3 Released!

2009-11-29T14:00:35Z

Hi hey,

This is to announce the release of Accerciser 1.9.3, the first
development release for this cycle.

Accerciser is an interactive Python accessibility explorer for the
GNOME desktop. It uses AT-SPI to inspect and control widgets,
allowing you to check if an application is providing correct
information to assistive technologies and automated test frameworks.
Accerciser has a simple plug-in framework which you can use to
create custom views of accessibility information.

=============
Version 1.9.3
=============

What's New
==========
Not much, there is a new Simplified Chinese translation of the help docs!

New And Updated Translations
============================
- Denis(?) (br)
- Carles Ferrando Garcia (ca@valencia)
- Thomas Thurman (en@shaw)
- Andika Triwidada (id)
- Takeshi AIHANA (ja)
- Leonid Kanter (ru)
- Laurent Dhima (sq)

Downloading Accerciser
======================

Accerciser 1.9.3
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/accerciser/1.9/accerciser-1.9.3.tar.gz
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/accerciser/1.9/accerciser-1.9.3.tar.bz2

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Announce: mousetweaks 2.29.3

2009-11-29T13:00:10Z

Dear reader,

Mousetweaks version 2.29.3 has been released and can be downloaded from:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/mousetweaks/2.29/

sha256sum of mousetweaks-2.29.3.tar.bz2:
b9b4ee7b895eaad64543d7fd23e69a4ede200427e313357e11020d30f822f927

sha256sum of mousetweaks-2.29.3.tar.gz
4a6c91715d34ee85e81b33c0a20930f5e35fb5e8aed1a94963478e3c6207e5b6

=======================
What is mousetweaks ?
=======================

The mousetweaks package provides the functions offered by the
Accessibility tab of the Mouse control panel. It also contains
two panel applets related to the mouse accessibility. More
particularly:

1. It offers a way to perform the various clicks without using any
hardware button. In this context, the Dwell Click panel applet
can be used to choose what click type to perform.

2. It allows users to perform a secondary click by doing a
click&hold of the primary mouse button.

3. It provides the Pointer Capture panel applet. This applet creates
an area on the panel into which the pointer can be captured until
the user releases it with a predefined button and modifier
combination.

===============
What is new ?
===============

New and updated translations:

[sl] Matej Urbančič

New and updated manual translation:

[zh_CN] TeliuTe

Many thanks to all contributors.

Best regards,

The MouseTweaks team

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

ANNOUNCE: Java ATK Wrapper 0.29.1

2009-11-27T01:46:54Z

What's JAW?
========

Java ATK Wrapper is a implementation of ATK by using JNI technic. It
converts Java Swing events into ATK events, and send these events to
ATK-Bridge.

JAW is part of the Bonobo deprecation project. It will replace the
java-access-bridge after being fully tested.
By talking to ATK-Bridge, it keeps itself from being affected by the
change of underlying communication mechanism.

Where?
=====

The git repo is at:
git clone git://git.gnome.org/java-atk-wrapper

The tarballs are here:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/java-atk-wrapper/

Reporting bugs
==========

URL: http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Classification: Platform
Application: at-spi
Component: Java ATK Wrapper

Important changes
============
* Added support for at-spi2(at-spi d-bus)

Thanks!

Ke
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Dotless braille

2009-11-19T07:28:10Z

Willie Walker, le Thu 19 Nov 2009 10:16:23 -0500, a écrit :
> Just an FYI. Here's some information on "dotless braille" was sent to
> me via private e-mail and I received permission to pass it on.
>
> http://www.dotlessbraille.org is an interesting thing for sighted people
> to easily map contracted braille to printed text. Here's a sample:
> http://www.dotlessbraille.org/sample3.GIF
>
> There may be some potential uses for this in the DOTS idea Eitan was
> working on and/or a braille transcription plugin for OpenOffice.

Urgl. From a theoretical point of view, it's funny to see that it can be
implemented as a mere font :)

However, that covers one language only (and it's not so beautiful
to read :) ). I'd rather see an OOo transcription plugin rather use
liblouis and render the text or braille itself, adjusting the size as
appropriate.

Samuel
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Dotless braille

2009-11-19T07:16:23Z

Hi All:

Just an FYI. Here's some information on "dotless braille" was sent to
me via private e-mail and I received permission to pass it on.

http://www.dotlessbraille.org is an interesting thing for sighted people
to easily map contracted braille to printed text. Here's a sample:
http://www.dotlessbraille.org/sample3.GIF

There may be some potential uses for this in the DOTS idea Eitan was
working on and/or a braille transcription plugin for OpenOffice.

Will
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Speech Dispatcher and audio

2009-11-17T23:12:55Z

Hello,

These steps will be followed:
- isolate basic test cases,
- start with a simple source code calling the PulseAudio API, if
possible no other dependencies,
- measure how this code behaves for each test,
- optimize the code, and measure again.

The measures will be done on several distros and the same hardware.

> > Please have a look to paplay code.
Yes, ok.

Best regards,
Gilles

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Panel notification area and other icons a11y

2009-11-17T09:49:46Z

Hi Ara:

I think it might be this bug:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=547475

Fixing it would be awesome, but I'm not sure if it's possible.

Will

Ara Pulido wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> This is a testing-orientated question, but as most of the desktop
> testing frameworks are based on a11y information, I guess this is the
> right mailing list to ask.
>
> Right now there is a lot of on going work in Ubuntu to clean up and
> rearrange the icons of the notification area.
>
> Automated testing this would be a great idea, but the problem is that it
> is impossible to know which icon are you looking at, as they don't have
> a11y information.
>
> If you check with accerciser the notification area, you can see that
> none of the icons have a name, which makes it impossible to track.
>
> So, my question is (after all this ranting), how difficult would be to
> write patches to these applications to include that information?
>
> Thanks,
> Ara.
> _______________________________________________
> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> gnome-accessibility-list@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Panel notification area and other icons a11y

2009-11-17T09:36:45Z

Hello all,

This is a testing-orientated question, but as most of the desktop
testing frameworks are based on a11y information, I guess this is the
right mailing list to ask.

Right now there is a lot of on going work in Ubuntu to clean up and
rearrange the icons of the notification area.

Automated testing this would be a great idea, but the problem is that it
is impossible to know which icon are you looking at, as they don't have
a11y information.

If you check with accerciser the notification area, you can see that
none of the icons have a name, which makes it impossible to track.

So, my question is (after all this ranting), how difficult would be to
write patches to these applications to include that information?

Thanks,
Ara.
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Announce: AT-SPI2 0.1.2 released.

2009-11-17T07:03:25Z

Hi Halim:

GNOME 2.29.x is going to be unstable for some time as we go through the
migration to D-Bus. For now, assume you should only use it for testing
and not day-to-day work.

I believe the impact of the "check using PID to check that the
application using pyatspi does not call itself" modification is that it
will help prevent hangs caused by reentrancy issues. So, Orca should
*still* run and provide access to the applications on the desktop, but
its main window, preferences, quit, etc., GUIs will be silent when you
try to access them.

Note also that 0.1.2 means this is still early code that is early in
the GNOME 2.29.x development cycle. Stability and reliability are
neither guaranteed nor expected at this point. But, we still have a
goal of achieving both for GNOME 2.30.0.

Will

On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:40 AM, Halim Sahin wrote:

> Hi,
> On Mo, Nov 16, 2009 at 06:50:43 +0000, Mark Doffman wrote:
>> Pyatspi2:
>> * Add check using PID to check that the application
>> using pyatspi does not call itself. This is because the
>> D-Bus calls are not currently re-entrant.
>
> does this mean that we can't currently use orca?
>
> It would be great to know what does work allready (like orca etc) and
> what should be tested.
>
> Regards
> Halim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - Dev

Re: Announce: AT-SPI2 0.1.2 released.

2009-11-17T05:40:14Z

Hi,
On Mo, Nov 16, 2009 at 06:50:43 +0000, Mark Doffman wrote:
> Pyatspi2:
> * Add check using PID to check that the application
> using pyatspi does not call itself. This is because the
> D-Bus calls are not currently re-entrant.

does this mean that we can't currently use orca?

It would be great to know what does work allready (like orca etc) and
what should be tested.

Regards
Halim

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - Dev

Re: Speech Dispatcher and audio

2009-11-17T02:59:43Z

Hello,
On Mo, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:25:29 +0100, Gilles Casse wrote:
> Hynek Hanke wrote:
> > Now we tend to think that any solution where the audio
> > is not output to kernel space directly from the synthesis
> > driver (like we do with ALSA) is not a possible way given
> > the current state of things.

NACK

> > Of course you are welcome to cross check these results,
> > that would be very useful. There might be something which
> > changed or something that we are missing.
> >
>
> I will look at this.
> Best regards,
> Gilles

Please have a look to paplay code.
Using espeak-genric driver in speech-dispatcher through pulseaudio (with
paplay).
produces very well working output.
I am using the following command in espeak-generic.conf

GenericExecuteSynth \
"echo \"$DATA\" |\
espeak --stdout -v $VOICE -s $RATE -a $VOLUME -p $PITCH $PUNCT --stdin |\
paplay -"
The command pipes espeak output through paplay and doesn't need a
temporary wavfile for playback.
The test shows that the problem must be in speech-dispatcher pulseaudio
code (not in pulseaudio).
The generic stuff works as expected fast, reliiable and with low
latency.
I am using this since 6 weeks.
The solution was tested with ubuntu karmic kernel as well (works).

From pulseaudio Mailinglist (from Lennart):
> So I upgraded to using the standard model - I copied the
> xmms-pulse plugin.c as a template and modified it until it compiled on
> my system without issues. Same problem, sound is horrible. To
> actually use callbacks would require a complete change in architecture
> for the application, and I'm not going there.

Uh. xmms is not maintained and dead and removed from quite a few
distros. Something similar is true for xmms-pulse. This is really not
where you should be looking.
------------------------

the comments in speechd/src/audio/pulse.c tells me that this code was used to
create the pulseaudio module for speech-dispatcher.
Maybe paplay would be the better choice :-(.
Regards
Halim

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Announce: AT-SPI2 0.1.2 released.

2009-11-16T10:50:43Z

AT-SPI2 0.1.2 is now available for download at:

http://download.gnome.org/sources/pyatspi/0.1/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-core/0.1/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-atk/0.1/

Notes
=====

This is a development release of AT-SPI2, it has some unfinished
features.

A list of work required before the a full release can be found at:

http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation

What's changed in AT-SPI2 0.1.2
===============================

Pyatspi2:
* Add check using PID to check that the application
using pyatspi does not call itself. This is because the
D-Bus calls are not currently re-entrant.

* Add a non-cached version.

* Refactoring for a more configurable pyatspi.

* New repository created as pyatspi moved from at-spi2-atk.

Fixes (Core):
* Add participation in Gnome session management.

* Remove the droute calls the registry daemon now only
depends on libdbus. Move the dbind and droute libraries
to at-spi2-atk.

* Change the name of the registry daemon so that it does not
conflict with the CORBA version.

* Remove the .service file as the registryd is started
by D-Bus activation.

* Remove libdbind calls from the registryd. Remove libdbind
from LDADD.

Fixes (ATK):
* Add the droute and dbind libraries as static libraries
within this repository. Previously these were shared
libraries in at-spi2-core.

* Add --enable-relocate option

This option is similar to what we did for AT-SPI/CORBA.
The default value is to not enable relocation. If
enabled, however, the atk-bridge module is relocated and a
*.desktop file is installed to initialize GTK_PATH in
gnome-session so the new module can be found by GTK+.

* Only install *.desktop file if GTK_MODULE_DIR is used for
relocating

* Fix gtk_module_init to always return a value

* Abort loading the module if NO_AT_BRIDGE is set and non-0.
Ported from CORBA at-spi.

* Remove cspi from the builds as it is not currently
functional.

* Add desktop file so that the ATK bridge GTK modules
environment variable is set properly by Gnome-session.

* Update the accessible adaptor for use without client side
caching. Add a method to get the interfaces supported by
an accessible.

* Remove pyatspi and the pyatspi tests that have been moved
out into a separate repository.

* Add missing headers.
Fix marshalling state set of accessible objects.

* Remove memory leaks cause by non de-referenced messages.

What is AT-SPI2
===============

AT-SPI2 is a D-Bus based accessibility framework. It defines a D-Bus
protocol for providing and accessing application accessibility
information. The project includes a library for bridging the D-Bus
protocol to the ATK API, allowing Gtk based applications to be made
accessible. It also contains a client (AT) side library in Python.

Where can I get more information about AT-SPI2
==============================================

The project wiki is available at:

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/ATK/AT-SPI/AT-SPI_on_D-Bus

A page detailing the project plan can be found at:

http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation

How can I contribute to AT-SPI2?
================================

AT-SPI2 is currently a small but valuable project. We are actively
seeking new contributors, all help is greatly appreciated. If
interested, please get in touch via:

IRC : 'atspidbus' on Gimpnet
E-Mail: accessibility-atspi@...

Development repositories can be found at:

git://git.gnome.org/pyatspi2
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-core
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-atk

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - Dev

Announce: mousetweaks 2.29.2

2009-11-16T10:16:43Z

Dear reader,

Mousetweaks version 2.29.2 has been released and can be downloaded from:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/mousetweaks/2.29/

sha256sum of mousetweaks-2.29.2.tar.bz2:
38c060b481992546e88b1eb7ba172adef60ecbf7557e5072a3ee128a8911c709

sha256sum of mousetweaks-2.29.2.tar.gz
9cd8282865cb1b7efb763edccaca873d2fa6f4b3b5c4e901c5ed672656fd2c50

=======================
What is mousetweaks ?
=======================

The mousetweaks package provides the functions offered by the
Accessibility tab of the Mouse control panel. It also contains
two panel applets related to the mouse accessibility. More
particularly:

1. It offers a way to perform the various clicks without using any
hardware button. In this context, the Dwell Click panel applet
can be used to choose what click type to perform.

2. It allows users to perform a secondary click by doing a
click&hold of the primary mouse button.

3. It provides the Pointer Capture panel applet. This applet creates
an area on the panel into which the pointer can be captured until
the user releases it with a predefined button and modifier
combination.

===============
What is new ?
===============

Misc changes, improvements and fixes:

* Fix the default dwell mode in the gconf schema file
* Do not daemonize by default and add the --daemonize cli option

New and updated translations:

[es] Jorge González

Many thanks to all contributors.

Best regards,

The mousetweaks team

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Speech Dispatcher and audio

2009-11-16T01:25:29Z

Hynek Hanke wrote:
> Now we tend to think that any solution where the audio
> is not output to kernel space directly from the synthesis
> driver (like we do with ALSA) is not a possible way given
> the current state of things.
>
> Of course you are welcome to cross check these results,
> that would be very useful. There might be something which
> changed or something that we are missing.
>

I will look at this.
Best regards,
Gilles

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

ANNOUNCE: at-spi 1.29.2

2009-11-15T22:15:01Z

=======================
* What is at-spi?
=======================

at-spi (assistive technology service provider interface) is the primary
assistive technology infrastructure for the Solaris and Linux
operating environments. Applications and toolkits supporting the
AT-SPI include the GNOME GTK+ toolkit, the Java platform's Swing
toolkit, OpenOffice, and Mozilla.

========================================
* What's changed for at-spi 1.29.2?
========================================

Bug fix:
#599244 - Allow 2.29.x AT-SPI/CORBA to coexist with AT-SPI/D-Bus
#569428 - At-spi should include a reciprocal relationship for NODE_CHILD_OF
#578334 - Make registryd session friendly
Translation update:
Norwegian bokmål, Galician, Simplified Chinese, Slovenian, Shavian,
Tamil, Spanish, Indonesian, Lithuanian

=====================
* Where can I get it?
=====================

Source code:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/at-spi/1.29/at-spi-1.29.2.tar.gz
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/at-spi/1.29/at-spi-1.29.2.tar.bz2

Enjoy,
Li

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Speech Dispatcher and audio

2009-11-15T01:38:53Z

Hi,
small typo:
I have tested it without the a11y profile with running pulseaudio :-).
Sorry

Halim

--
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E-Mail:
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Speech Dispatcher and audio

2009-11-15T00:54:44Z

Hello,
On Do, Nov 12, 2009 at 09:55:45 +0000, Hynek Hanke wrote:
> Luke Yelavich wrote:
> > 2. The pulseaudio problems are fixable, it just requires a bit of work to re-adjust the buffering metrics used in the speech synthesizer drivers
>
> Hello Luke and all,
>
> we did such experiments last year, and we communicated with Lennart,
> tested several patches, kernels etc. and though we got some improvements,
> they couldn't compare to ALSA in speed or reliability. There are some
> principal problems:

Have you tested speech-dispatcher espeak-generic?
espeak -stdout |paplay
It works reliable and realy with low latency with the karmic kernel.

A few weeks ago lennart wrote to the pulse mailinglist that the
xmms-pulse stuff shouldn't be used to create a driver for pulseaudio.
It was a dirty hack and isn't maintained.

What about integrating paplay's code to the speech-dispatcher pulse
output module?
It's smal and works reliable.

I am now using the sd_generic with espeak under gentoo and tested it on
the karmic live cd (with a11y profile).
Please try it.
BR.
halim

> 1) For this kind of architecture, where there are multiple
> processes in the audio chain, we need low latency
> and pre-emption in kernel as explained by Lennart
> and also documented in Jack. Distributions don't normally
> offer this to stay compatible with some proprietary drivers.
>
> 2) Pulse Audio itself (not the backend) needed some serious work
> on analysing and fixing issues related to buffer metrics
> and the glitch-free model at that time, but the main developers
> were unwiling to devote significant time to the issues important
> for accessibility.
>
> I don't know if something changed in these two points from then,
> but unless we are sure about it, it doesn't seem to be reasonable
> to spend more time on PulseAudio.
>
> Since the problem is in the architecture or PulseAudio itself,
> I don't think experiments using Gstreamer on top of PA or using
> Jack instead of PA and such can help it.
>
> Now we tend to think that any solution where the audio
> is not output to kernel space directly from the synthesis
> driver (like we do with ALSA) is not a possible way given
> the current state of things.
>
> Of course you are welcome to cross check these results,
> that would be very useful. There might be something which
> changed or something that we are missing.
>
> With regards,
> Hynek Hanke

--
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E-Mail:
halim.sahin (at) t-online.de

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Monday Meeting - 16 Nov 2009

2009-11-14T01:01:23Z

2009/11/13 Bryen M Yunashko <suserocks@...>:
> So I goofed and made it an hour later.

You too busy playing with the latest open SUSE?

> How's about a quick debate amongst us all and see what everyone prefers?
>
> Vote #1: 16:00 UTC

+0

> Vote #3: Steve provides refreshments at either time meeting.

nice cup of tea and biscuits anyone?

Steve
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Monday Meeting - 16 Nov 2009

2009-11-13T13:07:47Z

So I goofed and made it an hour later.

How's about a quick debate amongst us all and see what everyone prefers?

Vote #1: 16:00 UTC

Vote #2: 15:00 UTC

Vote #3: Steve provides refreshments at either time meeting.

On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 21:04 +0000, Steve Lee wrote:

> Hey Bryen are they all at 16:00 UTC now? I thought you said last one
> was for Eitan.
> Steve
>
> 2009/11/13 Bryen M Yunashko <suserocks@...>:
> > Our regularly scheduled weekly #a11y meeting will be on Monday the 16th
> > at 1600 UTC. (See times in your area at http://bit.ly/3pphFT). IRC
> > #a11y channel on GNOME's GIMPnet IRC Network.
> >
> > I won't be present as I'll be traveling, but it is GNOME 2.29.2 Tarball
> > Day and Willie suggests people be on hand to answer any questions and
> > issues that may arise.
> >
> > Oh and Steve A, you're running out of strikes. :-)
> >
> > Bryen
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> > gnome-accessibility-list@...

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Monday Meeting - 16 Nov 2009

2009-11-13T11:43:46Z

Our regularly scheduled weekly #a11y meeting will be on Monday the 16th
at 1600 UTC. (See times in your area at http://bit.ly/3pphFT). IRC
#a11y channel on GNOME's GIMPnet IRC Network.

I won't be present as I'll be traveling, but it is GNOME 2.29.2 Tarball
Day and Willie suggests people be on hand to answer any questions and
issues that may arise.

Oh and Steve A, you're running out of strikes. :-)

Bryen

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Fedora Accessibility Guide

2009-11-13T06:06:44Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ben,
I've got a draft version up on the Fedora Docs website[1]. I haven't included all the GNOME software yet but you should be able to see the basic layout of the guide. I expect more development to be completed soon.

[1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/accessibility-guide/f12/en-US/html/

Thanks,
Eric

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 05:36:02PM -0500, Ben Konrath wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> On 10/30/2009 11:50 PM, Eric Christensen wrote:
> > Greetings,
> > I'm working on rejuvenating the Fedora Accessibility Guide, which
> > encompasses GNOME and other FOSS software designed to help those that
> > may need these tools. Who would be best to talk about the different
> > options GNOME provides?
>
> This list is a great place to ask questions. For a good overview of
> things, you should check out this article:
>
> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/PythonPoweredAccessibility
>
> I'm looking forward to reading the Fedora Accessibility Guide when it's
> ready.
>
> Cheers, Ben

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iEYEARECAAYFAkr9Z/MACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFv2gCgyBAFUl7Dvc01JMh+veNfp3/O
OPoAoMqnlpurm1KnERVp0gCfGQl4mi4l
=GIsB
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

ANNOUNCE: atk 1.29.2

2009-11-12T20:15:23Z

=======================
* What is atk?
=======================

The interface definitions of accessibility infrastructure.

========================================
* What's changed for atk 1.29.2?
========================================

Fix: 569427 - Atk should include a reciprocal relationship for NODE_CHILD_OF
Translation update: Shavian, Norwegian Nynorsk.

=====================
* Where can I get it?
=====================

Source code:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/atk/1.29/atk-1.29.2.tar.gz
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/atk/1.29/atk-1.29.2.tar.bz2

Enjoy!
Li

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Carrying over ATs from GDM to GNOME session (brainstorm)

2009-11-12T07:01:00Z

Hi André:

Thanks for joining in!

You won't get disagreement from me that what you mention would be a nice
solution. Anywhere an interface is provided to add a new user to the
system (e.g., system installation, new user dialog, etc.) is an
opportunity to enable a11y appropriately for the user. These are things
that have been on my wish list for a while. :-)

Doing this will require cooperation from the distros to add a11y
features to their installers (e.g., Ubuntu's 'speech profile') and it
will also require a11y provisions to be added to the new user dialog. I
believe both of the user interfaces to these touchpoints can be somewhat
distro-specific, however, so the solution can become somewhat complex
and likely to be error prone because not every distro is a responsible
a11y citizen.

I believe the GDM handoff to the user session tends to be somewhat
consistent across distros. As a result, I think the carry over is a
touchpoint where GNOME can provide a consistent workable solution.

Also, the GDM carry over doesn't prevent the ability to add something
such as an "Accessibility" tab to the new user account dialog or to read
accessibility preferences from LDAP (or a USB stick, your
bluetooth-enabled mobile phone, etc. -- there's been work/research going
on in this space for a long time). Instead, it should be a relatively
straightforward solution we can get to quickly. The result will vastly
improve the current out-of-the-box experience for GNOME a11y and
increase the user's chance of being able to operate independently.

So, I'd view this as more of "low hanging fruit" that we can grab while
also shooting for tighter integration with user management. I also
don't view it as something we'd end up eventually throwing away. We can
never expect all distros to provide proper accessible installs and it's
doubtful all system administrators will make sure to enable a11y
preferences properly for new users, and it's doubtful we'll see generic
electronic a11y profiles appear until the proper committees have been
formed and some W3C or OASIS group anguishes over the file format for
years, and everybody ends up just ignoring the spec anyway. ;-)

Will

Andre Nuno Soares wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Speaking solely as a blind user, I think this issue is being looked at
> the wrong way.
>
> The thought is: "A user shouldn't have to configure accessibility in GDM
> and then again in the Desktop".
>
> But the thought should be: "why does the user need to configure
> accessibility (in the Desktop) if he already exists in the system?"
>
> Accessibility is a requirement of the user, so it should be enabled when
> the user is created in the system, just like enabling the mounting of
> the cd-rom drive, choosing the terminal shell or allowing sudoing to
> root.
>
> This doesn't seem very complex to implement, but I don't know of any
> Gnome setup that does it, and so we end up with accessibility being
> configured twice when the user logs for the first time or soon after.
>
> This makes even more sense if you consider "roaming profiles", be it in
> a campus/corporate setup or the cloud.
>
> AFAIK this doesn't exist in Gnome yet, but gconf at least already
> supports LDAP and DB backends, and I think there are already some
> experiences with roaming profiles.
>
> For GDM accessibility, the proposed keyboard shortcuts/gestures would
> solve the problem.
>
>
> Just my 0.02€
> André
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> gnome-accessibility-list@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Speech Dispatcher and audio

2009-11-12T01:55:45Z

Luke Yelavich wrote:
> 2. The pulseaudio problems are fixable, it just requires a bit of work to re-adjust the buffering metrics used in the speech synthesizer drivers

Hello Luke and all,

we did such experiments last year, and we communicated with Lennart,
tested several patches, kernels etc. and though we got some improvements,
they couldn't compare to ALSA in speed or reliability. There are some
principal problems:

1) For this kind of architecture, where there are multiple
processes in the audio chain, we need low latency
and pre-emption in kernel as explained by Lennart
and also documented in Jack. Distributions don't normally
offer this to stay compatible with some proprietary drivers.

2) Pulse Audio itself (not the backend) needed some serious work
on analysing and fixing issues related to buffer metrics
and the glitch-free model at that time, but the main developers
were unwiling to devote significant time to the issues important
for accessibility.

I don't know if something changed in these two points from then,
but unless we are sure about it, it doesn't seem to be reasonable
to spend more time on PulseAudio.

Since the problem is in the architecture or PulseAudio itself,
I don't think experiments using Gstreamer on top of PA or using
Jack instead of PA and such can help it.

Now we tend to think that any solution where the audio
is not output to kernel space directly from the synthesis
driver (like we do with ALSA) is not a possible way given
the current state of things.

Of course you are welcome to cross check these results,
that would be very useful. There might be something which
changed or something that we are missing.

With regards,
Hynek Hanke

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: speech-dispatcher audio output using gstreamer (idea)

2009-11-12T00:56:00Z

From: Janina Sajka <janina@...>

> If you're looking for another transport layer to supplant pulseaudio,
> jackd is the top shelf application on Linux. It's designed for real time
> professional audio production. The jack people care about things like 0
> latency and 0 xruns.
>
> Frankly, pulseaudio is a poor cousin to jackd, imho. Not sure why RH
> felt the need to create that poor cousin, but there we are.

Jack and Pulse Audio are not intended for the same purpose. Yes, they
both are transport layers, but not for the same purpose.

>
> Jack's home page:
>
> http://jackaudio.org

A somewhat old link that explain some of the differences:

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html

===
API (apinheiro@...)
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: speech-dispatcher audio output using gstreamer (idea)

2009-11-11T20:16:40Z

The gnome dev scene is always giving a pulse. I think we all
appreciate concientious input, Rui. I am not extremeley technical, but
would love to see a forced-containership strategy be employed at the
os level for all GUI elements. This would ultimately allow cascade
rules for all visible objects and "pannability" for any window.
This is crucial for low-vision users trapped in applications fixated
on typical resolutions. Too often the window or dialog is clipped and
visually inaccessible. Wholly unrelated, but the scene is alive. :)

On Nov 11, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Rui Batista <ruiandrebatista@...>
wrote:

> Hi,
> Qui, 2009-11-12 às 08:03 +1100, Luke Yelavich escreveu:
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 03:19:11AM EST, Rui Batista wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This could be my crazyest idea ever but I'd like to propose it and
>>> know
>>> the pros and cons of it.
>>>
>>> Since orca would enevitably switch to speech-dispatcher for it's
>>> speech
>>> output and speech-dispatcher audio code, at least for pulseaudio,
>>> is a
>>> bit bad, how about switching to gstreamer for outputing audio? I
>>> don't
>>> know if gstreamer is suitable to such high real-time requirements
>>> but at
>>> least most of the audio stuff is already done... And implementing
>>> some
>>> king of recording speech and so one is trivial.
>>>
>>> What do you all think? Sorry if it is stuppid...
>>
>> Its not a stupid idea at all, however there are a coupel of reasons
>> why its probably not worth exploring, at least from my point of view.
>> 1. It introduces a lot more external dependencies to speech-
>> dispatcher. Sure one doesn't have to build gstreamer support,
>> however if a distro wants to satisfy two sets of users, those
>> whowant a minimalist embedded system, and a desktop usage system
>> with the one package, this makes things complicated, to the point
>> where they would likely not build gstreamer support in the first
>> place.
>
> Maby you are right, I don't know how complicated it would be to get
> all
> that dependencies configuration on the build system of
> speech-dispatcher, it is already a bit hard to handle with all that
> code... But is doable if needed I think
>
>> 2. The pulseaudio problems are fixable, it just requires a bit of
>> work to re-adjust the buffering metrics used in the speech
>> synthesizer drivers, and the pulseaudio output code itself.
>> Basically it comes down to dynamically re-adjusting buffers
>> according to what pulseaudio says its doing for buffering. So I
>> think its easier to fix code already written, then to write new
>> output code from scratch, which may take time to get to the point
>> where it runs as well as other output code.
>>
> I looked at the pulse output code, but is very complicated for me
> right
> now, don't know very much about pulseaudio internals to understand all
> that calls and buffer handling...
>
>> I wouldn't be against someone writing a patch to support gstreamer,
>> and I'd be happy to test it, however I don't think its a good use
>> of time at this point. Such time in my opinion, is better spent
>> helping with issues elsewhere in either speech-dispatcher, or Linux
>> accessibility.
>>
> You're right. I would right the gstreamer support if needed but if
> there
> are other things more important I can also look at that. Besides
> pulseaudio output is there anything you think it would be good to
> take a
> llook at? 10.04 LTS is comming and I'd like to contribute a bit to the
> OS I'm using all the time :)
>
> regards,
>
> Rui Batista
>> Luke
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
>> gnome-accessibility-list@...
>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
> Rui Batista
> E-mail/googletalk: ruiandrebatista (at) gmail (dot) com
> MSN/WLM: ruiandrebatista (at) hotmail (dot) com (don't send mail to
> this
> on)
> Skype: ruiandrebatista
> twitter: http://twitter.com/ragb
> weblog: http://outputstream.wordpress.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> gnome-accessibility-list@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: speech-dispatcher audio output using gstreamer (idea)

2009-11-11T16:55:24Z

Hi,
Qui, 2009-11-12 às 08:03 +1100, Luke Yelavich escreveu:

Maby you are right, I don't know how complicated it would be to get all
that dependencies configuration on the build system of
speech-dispatcher, it is already a bit hard to handle with all that
code... But is doable if needed I think

> 2. The pulseaudio problems are fixable, it just requires a bit of work to re-adjust the buffering metrics used in the speech synthesizer drivers, and the pulseaudio output code itself. Basically it comes down to dynamically re-adjusting buffers according to what pulseaudio says its doing for buffering. So I think its easier to fix code already written, then to write new output code from scratch, which may take time to get to the point where it runs as well as other output code.
>
I looked at the pulse output code, but is very complicated for me right
now, don't know very much about pulseaudio internals to understand all
that calls and buffer handling...

> I wouldn't be against someone writing a patch to support gstreamer, and I'd be happy to test it, however I don't think its a good use of time at this point. Such time in my opinion, is better spent helping with issues elsewhere in either speech-dispatcher, or Linux accessibility.
>
You're right. I would right the gstreamer support if needed but if there
are other things more important I can also look at that. Besides
pulseaudio output is there anything you think it would be good to take a
llook at? 10.04 LTS is comming and I'd like to contribute a bit to the
OS I'm using all the time :)

regards,

Rui Batista
> Luke
> _______________________________________________
> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> gnome-accessibility-list@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Rui Batista
E-mail/googletalk: ruiandrebatista (at) gmail (dot) com
MSN/WLM: ruiandrebatista (at) hotmail (dot) com (don't send mail to this
on)
Skype: ruiandrebatista
twitter: http://twitter.com/ragb
weblog: http://outputstream.wordpress.com

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: speech-dispatcher audio output using gstreamer (idea)

2009-11-11T16:46:10Z

If you're looking for another transport layer to supplant pulseaudio,
jackd is the top shelf application on Linux. It's designed for real time
professional audio production. The jack people care about things like 0
latency and 0 xruns.

Frankly, pulseaudio is a poor cousin to jackd, imho. Not sure why RH
felt the need to create that poor cousin, but there we are.

Jack's home page:

http://jackaudio.org

Janina

Luke Yelavich writes:

> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 03:19:11AM EST, Rui Batista wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > This could be my crazyest idea ever but I'd like to propose it and know
> > the pros and cons of it.
> >
> > Since orca would enevitably switch to speech-dispatcher for it's speech
> > output and speech-dispatcher audio code, at least for pulseaudio, is a
> > bit bad, how about switching to gstreamer for outputing audio? I don't
> > know if gstreamer is suitable to such high real-time requirements but at
> > least most of the audio stuff is already done... And implementing some
> > king of recording speech and so one is trivial.
> >
> > What do you all think? Sorry if it is stuppid...
>
> Its not a stupid idea at all, however there are a coupel of reasons why its probably not worth exploring, at least from my point of view.
> 1. It introduces a lot more external dependencies to speech-dispatcher. Sure one doesn't have to build gstreamer support, however if a distro wants to satisfy two sets of users, those whowant a minimalist embedded system, and a desktop usage system with the one package, this makes things complicated, to the point where they would likely not build gstreamer support in the first place.
> 2. The pulseaudio problems are fixable, it just requires a bit of work to re-adjust the buffering metrics used in the speech synthesizer drivers, and the pulseaudio output code itself. Basically it comes down to dynamically re-adjusting buffers according to what pulseaudio says its doing for buffering. So I think its easier to fix code already written, then to write new output code from scratch, which may take time to get to the point where it runs as well as other output code.
>
> I wouldn't be against someone writing a patch to support gstreamer, and I'd be happy to test it, however I don't think its a good use of time at this point. Such time in my opinion, is better spent helping with issues elsewhere in either speech-dispatcher, or Linux accessibility.
>
> Luke
> _______________________________________________
> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> gnome-accessibility-list@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list

--

Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.202.595.7777;
sip:janina@...
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://CapitalAccessibility.Com

Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com

Chair, Open Accessibility janina@...
Linux Foundation http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: Carrying over ATs from GDM to GNOME session (brainstorm)

2009-11-11T16:31:41Z

Hello all,

Speaking solely as a blind user, I think this issue is being looked at
the wrong way.

The thought is: "A user shouldn't have to configure accessibility in GDM
and then again in the Desktop".

But the thought should be: "why does the user need to configure
accessibility (in the Desktop) if he already exists in the system?"

Accessibility is a requirement of the user, so it should be enabled when
the user is created in the system, just like enabling the mounting of
the cd-rom drive, choosing the terminal shell or allowing sudoing to
root.

This doesn't seem very complex to implement, but I don't know of any
Gnome setup that does it, and so we end up with accessibility being
configured twice when the user logs for the first time or soon after.

This makes even more sense if you consider "roaming profiles", be it in
a campus/corporate setup or the cloud.

AFAIK this doesn't exist in Gnome yet, but gconf at least already
supports LDAP and DB backends, and I think there are already some
experiences with roaming profiles.

For GDM accessibility, the proposed keyboard shortcuts/gestures would
solve the problem.

Just my 0.02€
André

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

Re: speech-dispatcher audio output using gstreamer (idea)

2009-11-11T13:03:07Z

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 03:19:11AM EST, Rui Batista wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This could be my crazyest idea ever but I'd like to propose it and know
> the pros and cons of it.
>
> Since orca would enevitably switch to speech-dispatcher for it's speech
> output and speech-dispatcher audio code, at least for pulseaudio, is a
> bit bad, how about switching to gstreamer for outputing audio? I don't
> know if gstreamer is suitable to such high real-time requirements but at
> least most of the audio stuff is already done... And implementing some
> king of recording speech and so one is trivial.
>
> What do you all think? Sorry if it is stuppid...

Its not a stupid idea at all, however there are a coupel of reasons why its probably not worth exploring, at least from my point of view.
1. It introduces a lot more external dependencies to speech-dispatcher. Sure one doesn't have to build gstreamer support, however if a distro wants to satisfy two sets of users, those whowant a minimalist embedded system, and a desktop usage system with the one package, this makes things complicated, to the point where they would likely not build gstreamer support in the first place.
2. The pulseaudio problems are fixable, it just requires a bit of work to re-adjust the buffering metrics used in the speech synthesizer drivers, and the pulseaudio output code itself. Basically it comes down to dynamically re-adjusting buffers according to what pulseaudio says its doing for buffering. So I think its easier to fix code already written, then to write new output code from scratch, which may take time to get to the point where it runs as well as other output code.

I wouldn't be against someone writing a patch to support gstreamer, and I'd be happy to test it, however I don't think its a good use of time at this point. Such time in my opinion, is better spent helping with issues elsewhere in either speech-dispatcher, or Linux accessibility.

Luke
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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General

speech-dispatcher audio output using gstreamer (idea)

2009-11-11T08:19:11Z

Hi,

This could be my crazyest idea ever but I'd like to propose it and know
the pros and cons of it.

Since orca would enevitably switch to speech-dispatcher for it's speech
output and speech-dispatcher audio code, at least for pulseaudio, is a
bit bad, how about switching to gstreamer for outputing audio? I don't
know if gstreamer is suitable to such high real-time requirements but at
least most of the audio stuff is already done... And implementing some
king of recording speech and so one is trivial.

What do you all think? Sorry if it is stuppid...

Best regards,

Rui Batista
Rui Batista
E-mail/googletalk: ruiandrebatista (at) gmail (dot) com
MSN/WLM: ruiandrebatista (at) hotmail (dot) com (don't send mail to this
on)
Skype: ruiandrebatista
twitter: http://twitter.com/ragb
weblog: http://outputstream.wordpress.com

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From forum: Gnome - Accessibility - General