Grant for usage of a google mapmaper users data to me

Hi there,
I am in discussion with a google mapmaker user to relicense his work to me.
here is my mail,
please correct me when I am wrong, that he as an author still owns his
data and can license it to me.
thanks,
mike
===================
Hi there,
all you have to do do is make your work that you own available to me
to put into OSM.

You give google all the rights to your data, you get no rights from them.
But you still own all your data!

"By submitting User Submissions to the Service, you give Google a
perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive
license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly
perform, publicly display, distribute, and create derivative works of
the User Submission. "

That means you give google full access to your data.

 "You confirm and warrant to Google that you own or have all of the
necessary rights or permissions to grant this license. You also grant
to end users of Google services the right to access and use, including
the right to edit, the User Submissions as permitted under the
applicable Google terms of service."

That means you own all your data. You can still do what you want with
your data, like grant me license to use your data in OSM.

http://www.google.com/mapmaker/intl/en_ALL/mapfiles/s/terms_mapmaker.html

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[Richard Fairhurst]

jamesmikedupont wrote:
> please correct me when I am wrong, that he as an author still owns
> his data and can license it to me.

That needs someone from Google to answer, not us.

I suggest you ask them on the Google MapMaker forum:
http://groups.google.com/group/map-your-world

cheers
Richard

here is what they guy wrote to me :

  Thanks but you are wasting time. i do not get any payment from
google neither from Yahoo (OSM).
   so please leave me alone i do not need any more explanations what
google do or don't or yahoo or some
   thing like that, i do know that you are getting payed for this
project do whatever you want.
   please do me a favour. DO NOT WRITE BACK TO ME ANY MORE.

OMG,

mike

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Richard Fairhurst
<richard@...> wrote:

>
> jamesmikedupont wrote:
>> please correct me when I am wrong, that he as an author still owns
>> his data and can license it to me.
>
> That needs someone from Google to answer, not us.
>
> I suggest you ask them on the Google MapMaker forum:
> http://groups.google.com/group/map-your-world
>
> cheers
> Richard
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Grant-for-usage-of-a-google-mapmaper-users-data-to-me-tp25632402p25632629.html
> Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> legal-talk@...
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>

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[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> jamesmikedupont wrote:
>> please correct me when I am wrong, that he as an author still owns
>> his data and can license it to me.
>
> That needs someone from Google to answer, not us.

Sure?

I mean, would they not have to say very clearly if they wanted an
exclusive license?

Bye
Frederik


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Listen guys,
this should all go into the FAQ.

I am having problems educating people about what OSM is, and how it
differs to GMM.

We need to state that we are not working for yahoo and why people
should prefer to license thier work to OSM over other sites.

We also have to tell people that google does not own thier
contributions, but the reference data that it is built upon.

I would like to have a standard waiver to allow people to license the
copyrights of thier GMM work to the OSM foundation.

It says in the GMM TOS that you have to have full ownership of the
data you enter in,
that means they cannot for example take data from OSM. It also means
they can license it to us.

This should be a standard contract that we can also use for other
wikimapia projects, and travel guides.

We should start collecting rights for this data, even if we cannot
import it directly and there are other issues, if we have at least
permission to use it it would be a big win as reference material.

thanks,
mike

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>> jamesmikedupont wrote:
>>> please correct me when I am wrong, that he as an author still owns
>>> his data and can license it to me.
>>
>> That needs someone from Google to answer, not us.
>
> Sure?
>
> I mean, would they not have to say very clearly if they wanted an
> exclusive license?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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[Emilie Laffray]

jamesmikedupont@... wrote:

> here is what they guy wrote to me :
>
>   Thanks but you are wasting time. i do not get any payment from
> google neither from Yahoo (OSM).
>    so please leave me alone i do not need any more explanations what
> google do or don't or yahoo or some
>    thing like that, i do know that you are getting payed for this
> project do whatever you want.
>    please do me a favour. DO NOT WRITE BACK TO ME ANY MORE.
>
> OMG,
>
> mike
>  

That's an interesting reply...... It is quite annoying to see people

reacting like this.

Emilie Laffray



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[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

jamesmikedupont@... wrote:
> We need to state that we are not working for yahoo and why people
> should prefer to license thier work to OSM over other sites.

No. Such we-are-better-than-them reasoning will only give you the kind
of negative feedback you have just received.

I agree that it would be nice to have some kind of standard message for
GMM contributors that explains our project and the possibility of dual
licensing. However, please always bear in mind that Google have the same
rights vis a vis our contributors, so if you do start to poach in their
realm, test yourself: Will you react calmly if Google send messages to
every OSM contributor asking them to dual-license their data? Only if
you can honestly answer yes should you proceed.

If you do prepare such a standard letter, be sure to highlight the
positives and not the negatives:

"Dear so-and-so, I see you have added a tremendous amount of data to
Google Map Maker which I found very impressive. I am involved with a
non-profit project that does something similar to Google Map Maker. It
is called OpenStreetMap. We try to be soemthing like a Wikipedia for
maps - everyone can contribute, and everyone can use our data for any
purpose they like (drawing different kinds of maps, offering various
services, programming computer games - whatever). I, and indeed the
whole OpenStreetMap project, would indeed be very interested to be able
to use the data that you gave to Google Map Maker for OpenStreetMap as
well. Since OpenStreetMap follows very strict intellectual property
rules, we do not simply copy data from anywhere - we always ask the
original rights owner for permission. Since you are the original rights
owner of the data you contributed to Google Map Maker, will you allow me
to incorporate your data in OpenStreetMap as well? There would be no
additional work involved for you. You can find more about the OSM
project here ... and all our data is licensed under CC-BY-SA which you
can read more about here ..."

Bye
Frederik

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Will you react calmly if Google send messages to
> every OSM contributor asking them to dual-license their data? Only if
> you can honestly answer yes should you proceed.

HI there,
I would never just spam anyone.
But there are some really motivated mappers in kosovo, and they dont
even understand that they cannot print these maps or use them
properly.
The guy was still searching for the print buttton!

Thanks!
mike

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[Erik Johansson-10]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 7:44 PM, jamesmikedupont@...
<jamesmikedupont@...> wrote:

> Will you react calmly if Google send messages to
>> every OSM contributor asking them to dual-license their data? Only if
>> you can honestly answer yes should you proceed.
>
> HI there,
> I would never just spam anyone.
> But there are some really motivated mappers in kosovo, and they dont
> even understand that they cannot print these maps or use them
> properly.
> The guy was still searching for the print buttton!

How good are the Yahoo imagery of Kosovo? The big thing about GMM is
that they have better coverage than Yahoo has. People just want maps
they don't care about "free maps", sure they may care about it if they
can be bothered to understand the issues.

What I have seen on GMM  looks suspiciously  like ppl copying
information from copyrighted maps.

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OSM is the one project where kosovo is ahead of serbia.
We have now 6-8 GPS devices on the ground and a motivated team.
we are using yahoosat and training mappers.
We are importing GNS features and other things.

I dont know about the GMM people, but they dont seem to me informed
about anything.
I would just like to inform them and also get rights to use the POIS
they have given google. I dont want all the data, just to know the
names and general locations of the features, I can have the ground
team doublecheck them and redo them.

I would like to inform them, we need to create some informational videos.
We need to avoid having them read anything and spell it all out.
also we need to make the GUI a bit easier.

What I am interested in doing is getting people to move over to OSM,
and to inform them.
Our team is doing alot of groundwork and we are looking into various
sources of fundings.


Mike

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Erik Johansson <erjohan@...> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 7:44 PM, jamesmikedupont@...
> <jamesmikedupont@...> wrote:
>> Will you react calmly if Google send messages to
>>> every OSM contributor asking them to dual-license their data? Only if
>>> you can honestly answer yes should you proceed.
>>
>> HI there,
>> I would never just spam anyone.
>> But there are some really motivated mappers in kosovo, and they dont
>> even understand that they cannot print these maps or use them
>> properly.
>> The guy was still searching for the print buttton!
>
> How good are the Yahoo imagery of Kosovo? The big thing about GMM is
> that they have better coverage than Yahoo has. People just want maps
> they don't care about "free maps", sure they may care about it if they
> can be bothered to understand the issues.
>
> What I have seen on GMM  looks suspiciously  like ppl copying
> information from copyrighted maps.
>
> _______________________________________________
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>

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[Chris Fleming]

On 28/09/09 14:29, jamesmikedupont@... wrote:

> is the one project where kosovo is ahead of serbia.
> We have now 6-8 GPS devices on the ground and a motivated team.
> we are using yahoosat and training mappers.
> We are importing GNS features and other things.
>
> I dont know about the GMM people, but they dont seem to me informed
> about anything.
> I would just like to inform them and also get rights to use the POIS
> they have given google. I dont want all the data, just to know the
> names and general locations of the features, I can have the ground
> team doublecheck them and redo them.
>    

I'm not sure what you're going to achieve here. You can't use there
POI's directly as they will have probably been derived from google's
aerial imagery. If you are planning on visiting the places anyway then
just go on a visit (which you will probably be doing to get street names
and traces?) and add them then.

Cheers
Chris


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On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Chris Fleming <me@...> wrote:
> I'm not sure what you're going to achieve here. You can't use there
> POI's directly as they will have probably been derived from google's
> aerial imagery. If you are planning on visiting the places anyway then
> just go on a visit (which you will probably be doing to get street names
> and traces?) and add them then.
>

Hi there,
If they mark a church with a name then it is pretty easy to find other
sources for that and even locate it on yahoo sat.

if you know the 100 radius of an POI then you can find other free
sources for it. I can also ask someone who is in the area to look at
it or confirm it.

mike

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