Groovy Applets

[backspaces]

Hi folks.  I looked on the site and the mail archives for how to build  a Groovy Applet but couldn't find any details.  Is there a demo of an applet anywhere, including how to wrap up the jar needed for it and how to include it in the html applet tag?

Thanks!

    -- Owen

Owen Densmore    505-988-3787 http://backspaces.net
Redfish Group:   505-995-0206 http://redfish.com  http://friam.org/

[tugwilson]

On 19 Sep 2006, at 18:35, backspaces wrote:

> Hi folks.  I looked on the site and the mail archives for how to  
> build  a
> Groovy Applet but couldn't find any details.  Is there a demo of an  
> applet
> anywhere, including how to wrap up the jar needed for it and how to  
> include
> it in the html applet tag?


I'm almost certain it's not possible to build an unsigned Applet in  
Groovy. The Groovy runtime system almost certainly beaks numerous  
security rules which are enforced on applets.


John Wilson
The Wilson Partnership
web http://www.wilson.co.uk
blog http://eek.ook.org



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[backspaces]

John Wilson wrote:

...
I'm almost certain it's not possible to build an unsigned Applet in  
Groovy. The Groovy runtime system almost certainly beaks numerous  
security rules which are enforced on applets.

This is a killer for my project.  Our research group depends on deployability.  The example I gave before of Processing.org's system:
  http://www.backspaces.net/models/Stadium/applet/
was done to show our client what could be done quickly with Java and a well designed 3D library.  Without the web deployability, we would have had to send them the Processing system and wrap it into an application, hoping it would work on their systems.  We've tried this before and it was such a burden, we gave up the system that required we do that (Repast, the ABM system).

If Groovy can't build applets, it will face huge problems attempting to define itself as a seamless Java/Agile system.

We gotta fix this.

    -- Owen

Owen Densmore    505-988-3787 http://backspaces.net
Redfish Group:   505-995-0206 http://redfish.com  http://friam.org/

[tugwilson]

On 19 Sep 2006, at 21:55, backspaces wrote:

> This is a killer for my project.  Our research group depends on
> deployability.  The example I gave before of Processing.org's system:
>   http://www.backspaces.net/models/Stadium/applet/
> was done to show our client what could be done quickly with Java  
> and a well
> designed 3D library.  Without the web deployability, we would have  
> had to
> send them the Processing system and wrap it into an application,  
> hoping it
> would work on their systems.  We've tried this before and it was  
> such a
> burden, we gave up the system that required we do that (Repast, the  
> ABM
> system).
>
> If Groovy can't build applets, it will face huge problems  
> attempting to
> define itself as a seamless Java/Agile system.

Web deployability != applets.

It can be argued (and I would argue) that JNLP is what applets should  
have been in the first place.

Note also that I said that writing *unsigned* applets in groovy does  
not look feasible to me. Signed applets are a whole other issue.


John Wilson
The Wilson Partnership
web http://www.wilson.co.uk
blog http://eek.ook.org



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[Jochen Theodorou]

backspaces schrieb:
[...]
> If Groovy can't build applets, it will face huge problems attempting to
> define itself as a seamless Java/Agile system.
>
> We gotta fix this.

Groovy can have Applets. The problem is that Groovy generates classes at
runtime and this does make problems here. This and maybe the
Classloaders, the access to private/protected methods and some other
things. You can sign the applet, but you would have to grant very
widegoing access rights.

bye blackdrag

--
Jochen Theodorou
Groovy Tech Lead
http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/

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[Erik Husby]

It may or may not be related but I have a Java program in which I use  
Rhino javascript. I was unable to get this to work in a JNLP  
environment because of security issues. Signing the jars was not  
sufficient, because it was a personal project I did not delve deeply  
into it.  I suspect that similar problems would be faced by Groovy.

Plus, I agree Applets != Web deployment


On Sep 19, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Jochen Theodorou wrote:

> backspaces schrieb:
> [...]
>> If Groovy can't build applets, it will face huge problems  
>> attempting to
>> define itself as a seamless Java/Agile system.
>> We gotta fix this.
>
> Groovy can have Applets. The problem is that Groovy generates  
> classes at runtime and this does make problems here. This and maybe  
> the Classloaders, the access to private/protected methods and some  
> other things. You can sign the applet, but you would have to grant  
> very widegoing access rights.
>
> bye blackdrag
>
> --
> Jochen Theodorou
> Groovy Tech Lead
> http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>

---
Erik Husby
Senior Software Engineer
Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard
Rm. 2267, 320 Charles St, Cambridge, MA 02141-2023
mobile: [phone], office: 617.258.9227
email: mhusby@... AIM: ErikAtBroad



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[backspaces]

Well, thanks all for the answers.

Just FYI: Jython allows applets, although I think you can't use eval().
  http://www.nabble.com/Jython-Applets-tf2302986.html

Signing may be a solution, but I doubt it .. most folks find it troublesome and error prone.

WebStart?  .. well maybe that's the answer for Groovy.  Maybe make it dead simple to use JNLP via a builder or similar.  Has anyone done this successfully with Groovy?

So although I'm (reluctantly) willing to agree that web deployable != applets, I think we need a good alternative, rather than just sneering at applets.

    -- Owen

Owen Densmore    505-988-3787 http://backspaces.net
Redfish Group:   505-995-0206 http://redfish.com  http://friam.org/

[Russel Winder]

On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 21:08 -0700, backspaces wrote:

> Just FYI: Jython allows applets, although I think you can't use eval().
>   http://www.nabble.com/Jython-Applets-tf2302986.html

Presumably the eval function causes bytecode generation (and a pyc or
class file) so is the same problem that Groovy has, i.e. it cannot play
in the sandbox.  Is Jython a pure interpreted version of Python?
 
[ . . . ]

> So although I'm (reluctantly) willing to agree that web deployable !=
> applets, I think we need a good alternative, rather than just sneering at
> applets.

I don't think anyone was sneering at applets, just saying that most
people are using other solutions.  Because of the conflict between the
applet sandbox and dynamic programming language philosophy and
implementation, Java may well still be the best language of
implementation for applets.  Though if Jython can do it, then go for it!
--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road              [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK             russel@...