Haskell Platform on Ubuntu

[Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto-2]

Is there anyone working on a Haskell Platform package for Ubuntu?

GHC in Ubuntu is a pain!


Regards

Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto


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[Don Stewart-2]

RafaelGCPP.Linux:
>
> Is there anyone working on a Haskell Platform package for Ubuntu?
>
> GHC in Ubuntu is a pain!

The Debian team is working on packaging, but until then (or if someone
on Ubuntu steps up), you'll need to use the Unix tarball:

    http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/2009.2.0.1/haskell-platform-2009.2.0.1.tar.gz

-- Don
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[Erik de Castro Lopo-34]

Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto wrote:

> Is there anyone working on a Haskell Platform package for Ubuntu?

For Haskell on Ubuntu, the vast majority of all the work is done
by the Debian Haskell maintainers. Ubuntu simply takes that work
and rolls packages for Ubuntu.

> GHC in Ubuntu is a pain!

The same is also currently true for GHC on Debian stable and
testing. Debian unstable is also a bit broken.

However, if you know a bit about build Debian packages the Debian
way then it is possible to use the Debian unstable sources on
Ubuntu 8.04 and later. I've been meaning to blog this for some
time :-).

Erik
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[Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto-2]

Thanks.  I may even be the one to step up, if nothing happens till 9.10... I really miss up-to-date ghc in Ubuntu.

2009/7/6 Don Stewart <dons@...>

RafaelGCPP.Linux:

>
> Is there anyone working on a Haskell Platform package for Ubuntu?
>
> GHC in Ubuntu is a pain!

The Debian team is working on packaging, but until then (or if someone
on Ubuntu steps up), you'll need to use the Unix tarball:

   http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/2009.2.0.1/haskell-platform-2009.2.0.1.tar.gz

-- Don

--
Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto
Electronic Engineer, MSc.

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[Stefan Roggensack]

Hello,

I have uploaded the ghc package to my ppa:
https://launchpad.net/~someone561/+archive/ppa
But I don't work on it. I simple backport the debian sid packages. Also
there are not the haskell libraries as debs. Maybe this helps you.

Stefan

Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto wrote:

> Thanks.  I may even be the one to step up, if nothing happens till
> 9.10... I really miss up-to-date ghc in Ubuntu.
>
>
>
> 2009/7/6 Don Stewart <dons@... <mailto:dons@...>>
>
>     RafaelGCPP.Linux:
>     >
>     > Is there anyone working on a Haskell Platform package for Ubuntu?
>     >
>     > GHC in Ubuntu is a pain!
>
>     The Debian team is working on packaging, but until then (or if someone
>     on Ubuntu steps up), you'll need to use the Unix tarball:
>
>      
>      http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/2009.2.0.1/haskell-platform-2009.2.0.1.tar.gz
>
>     -- Don
>
>
>

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[Jochem Berndsen-3]

Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
>> GHC in Ubuntu is a pain!
>
> The same is also currently true for GHC on Debian stable and
> testing. Debian unstable is also a bit broken.

I only use Debian Stable, but I don't find it very hard to use. I just
use the binary packages from www.haskell.org.
That said, there has been a lot of activity on the debian-haskell
mailing list lately (debian-haskell@...) so there will
probably some progress quite soon! (Not sure if it will be in time for
Ubuntu 9.10 though).
Cheers,

--
Jochem Berndsen | jochem@...
GPG: 0xE6FABFAB
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[Simon Marlow-7]

Karmic (9.10) will have GHC 6.10.3, possibly 6.10.4.

http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/302149

Cheers,
        Simon

On 06/07/2009 23:54, Stefan Roggensack wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have uploaded the ghc package to my ppa:
> https://launchpad.net/~someone561/+archive/ppa
> But I don't work on it. I simple backport the debian sid packages. Also
> there are not the haskell libraries as debs. Maybe this helps you.
>
> Stefan
>
> Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto wrote:
>> Thanks.  I may even be the one to step up, if nothing happens till
>> 9.10... I really miss up-to-date ghc in Ubuntu.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/7/6 Don Stewart<dons@...<mailto:dons@...>>
>>
>>      RafaelGCPP.Linux:
>>      >
>>      >  Is there anyone working on a Haskell Platform package for Ubuntu?
>>      >
>>      >  GHC in Ubuntu is a pain!
>>
>>      The Debian team is working on packaging, but until then (or if someone
>>      on Ubuntu steps up), you'll need to use the Unix tarball:
>>
>>
>>       http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/2009.2.0.1/haskell-platform-2009.2.0.1.tar.gz
>>
>>      -- Don
>>
>>
>>

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[Matthias Görgens-2]

> Karmic (9.10) will have GHC 6.10.3, possibly 6.10.4.

It currently spots 6.10.3, in the alpha release I run here.
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[Erik de Castro Lopo-34]

Simon Marlow wrote:

> Karmic (9.10) will have GHC 6.10.3, possibly 6.10.4.
>
> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/302149

Unfortunately thats only half the story. The GHC 6.10.3 that is going
into Kamic is the one from Debian Unstable.

It is important to note here that beyond doing a rebuild of the Debian
source package against Ubuntu's binary versions of all the libraries,
Ubuntu/Cannonical does no extra work to make Haskell (or anything else
outside the Ubuntu core packages) work on Ubuntu.

It should also be noted that although ghc-6.10.3 works, a huge bunch
of Haskell libraries still need to be build with the new compiler for
them to be useful. Since Debian is still working on getting this
process sorted out, there is little reason to believe that Ubuntu is
going to be any better at getting this fixed.

If anyone is interested in seeing improved Haskell support in Ubuntu,
they should be looking towards the Debian Haskell maintainers, not
Ubuntu :-).

Erik
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[porges-2]

2009/7/7 Matthias Görgens <matthias.goergens@...>:
>> Karmic (9.10) will have GHC 6.10.3, possibly 6.10.4.
>
> It currently spots 6.10.3, in the alpha release I run here.

A major problem is that the libraries are still for 6.8.2, so you
cannot install the required libs to install cabal. Grr.
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[david48]

Even if 6.10.3 gets into Karmic, I'm sure the problem will arise again
once 6.12.1 is out. It's sadly easier to install from the tarball.

David.
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[Ketil Malde-5]

George Pollard <porges@...> writes:

> 2009/7/7 Matthias Görgens <matthias.goergens@...>:

>>> Karmic (9.10) will have GHC 6.10.3, possibly 6.10.4.

>> It currently spots 6.10.3, in the alpha release I run here.

> A major problem is that the libraries are still for 6.8.2, so you
> cannot install the required libs to install cabal. Grr.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow you.  Surely the libraries must be
compiled against the shipping version of GHC?

-k
--
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[Erik de Castro Lopo-34]

Ketil Malde wrote:

> I'm sorry, but I don't follow you.  Surely the libraries must be
> compiled against the shipping version of GHC?

Yes, but the libraries that are currently there are the ones
compiled with the previous version of ghc.

Yes, those libraries need to be recompiled and no, that process
has not yet been properly automated.

Erik
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[Erik de Castro Lopo-34]

david48 wrote:

> Even if 6.10.3 gets into Karmic, I'm sure the problem will arise again
> once 6.12.1 is out.

The Debian Haskell maintainers are working on fixing this. In
particular, working on setting up an automated process so that
when the compiler version is updated, all Haskell libraries
get built with the new compiler.

The Ocaml programming language has exactly the same problem, but
the Debian Ocaml maintainers have automated the process and last
time to Ocaml compiler version was updated over 95% of all Ocaml
libraries were rebuilt within 24 hours.

> It's sadly easier to install from the tarball.

Currently yes. That should change in the not too distant
future.

Erik
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[Simon Marlow-7]

On 08/07/2009 00:17, George Pollard wrote:
> 2009/7/7 Matthias Görgens<matthias.goergens@...>:
>>> Karmic (9.10) will have GHC 6.10.3, possibly 6.10.4.
>> It currently spots 6.10.3, in the alpha release I run here.
>
> A major problem is that the libraries are still for 6.8.2, so you
> cannot install the required libs to install cabal. Grr.

My understanding is they're waiting for 6.10.4 before recompiling all
the libraries, because it's a big job and they don't want to do it twice.

Cheers,
        Simon
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[Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto-2]

The Ocaml programming language has exactly the same problem, but
the Debian Ocaml maintainers have automated the process and last
time to Ocaml compiler version was updated over 95% of all Ocaml
libraries were rebuilt within 24 hours.

Since I never built GHC from scratch, it is really hard for me to estimate how much effort would I have to put through to automate the whole building process.

Anyway, automating the package building process is crucial for Linux distributions.

One problem I see is the binary-only distribution of packages. This makes cabal-install incompatible with most distributions except, maybe, gentoo. The automation process would have to run through hackageDB tracking dependencies and compiling each needed library. Pretty hard stuff...

 
Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto

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[Matthias Görgens-2]

> One problem I see is the binary-only distribution of packages. This makes
> cabal-install incompatible with most distributions except, maybe, gentoo.
> The automation process would have to run through hackageDB tracking
> dependencies and compiling each needed library. Pretty hard stuff...

Yes.  The sanest approach for any distribution would seem to install
are bare bones ghc + cabal (cabal install) and let the cabal package
system do the hard work directly.

Matthias.
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[david48]

2009/7/8 Matthias Görgens <matthias.goergens@...>:
>> One problem I see is the binary-only distribution of packages. This makes
>> cabal-install incompatible with most distributions except, maybe, gentoo.
>> The automation process would have to run through hackageDB tracking
>> dependencies and compiling each needed library. Pretty hard stuff...
>
> Yes.  The sanest approach for any distribution would seem to install
> are bare bones ghc + cabal (cabal install) and let the cabal package
> system do the hard work directly.

That wouldn't work, as cabal dependancies don't allow downloading the
appropriate C libraries from the distribution repositories when
needed.
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[Ketil Malde-5]

Matthias Görgens <matthias.goergens@...> writes:

>> One problem I see is the binary-only distribution of packages. This makes
>> cabal-install incompatible with most distributions except, maybe, gentoo.
>> The automation process would have to run through hackageDB tracking
>> dependencies and compiling each needed library. Pretty hard stuff...

> Yes.  The sanest approach for any distribution would seem to install
> are bare bones ghc + cabal (cabal install) and let the cabal package
> system do the hard work directly.

I don't have much experience with building binary packages, but surely
the (binary) distributions should ship (binary) packages of as much as
possible of the useful, stable libraries and executables?

One reason this is important is that a major feature of binary
distributions is providing a homogenous, stable, universal set of
packages for all users.  This makes bugs a lot more trackable: either
they affect all users, or none.

-k
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[Erik de Castro Lopo-34]

Rafael Gustavo da Cunha Pereira Pinto wrote:

> One problem I see is the binary-only distribution of packages.

Well Debian does have source packages as well, thats what they build
the binaries from :-).

> The automation process would have to run through hackageDB tracking
> dependencies and compiling each needed library.

On Debian, haskell libraries can be build from the same <pkgname>.cabal
files that Hackage uses. There is no need to read anything from the
HackageDB.

> Pretty hard stuff...

The fact that the Ocaml people can do means that it definitely
possible, and Ocaml upstream libraries don't ship with anything
near as useful as the .cabal files in Haskell packages.

Erik
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