Help getting started with Danny Boy
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Help getting started with Danny Boy
by plasmacarwash
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Hey Forum,
I am transcribing Danny Boy from this mans arrang. (Mark D. Lew) . (3 pages short) It is from key 'D' to 'C' that I desire. I need only help on the vocal. I already have the notes and lyrics typed and coordinated one above the other. I also need help with a WIN 98 indiosyncracy with 2.11.45 ( and all previous versions, btw). Horizontal spacing. I was helped here and got some good fixes ( like "ragged") but I just wanted to give you a heads up before we work with your particular style code. Is there anybody out there tonite? much love, Jay P.S. topic of horizontal spacing last year |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by James E. Bailey-2
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Am 03.05.2008 um 04:24 schrieb plasmacarwash:
> > Hey Forum, > > I am transcribing Danny Boy from this mans arrang. > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~markdlew/shw/DannyBoy.htm (Mark D. > Lew) . > > (3 pages short) > > It is from key 'D' to 'C' that I desire. > > I need only help on the vocal. > > I already have the notes and lyrics typed and coordinated one above > the > other. > > I also need help with a WIN 98 indiosyncracy with 2.11.45 ( and all > previous > versions, btw). > > Horizontal spacing. > > I was helped here and got some good fixes ( like "ragged") but I > just wanted > to give you a heads up before we work with your particular style code. > > Is there anybody out there tonite? > > much love, > > Jay > > > > P.S. http://www.nabble.com/horizontal-spacing-to12377970.html#a12379149 > topic of horizontal spacing last year > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Help-getting-started-with-Danny-Boy-tp17030765p17030765.html > Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > _______________________________________________ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@... > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user What kind of specific help do you need? _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by plasmacarwash
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Dear James,
Actually I was wondering, once we set the time signature and choose which value our notes will be (half, quart, eighth) -does the program automatically create the desired bars? The appropriate measures? I assume it does after that input. Also I need help fetching a "vertical squiggly line" and an "upside-down fermatta" within Mark Lews adapt.  Lastly, I was perusing the template(s) for piano and voice. I wonder how that looks when done? Do I just load up all the lyrics I have already within the "voice" section? I expect that section to be pretty disproportionate compared to the remaining few sections left in the template provided. Also, Kieren MacMillans help has held its own, so, I'm ok with the 'horizontal spacing" issue from yesteryear. Thank-you James. -Jay Peek
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by Paul Scott-3
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On May 3, 2008, at 6:44 PM, plasmacarwash wrote: > > Dear James, > > Actually I was wondering, once we set the time signature and choose > which > value our notes will be (half, quart, eighth) -does the program > automatically create the desired bars? > The appropriate measures? > I assume it does after that input. Have you read the tutorial? We can help you better if you show us what you have tried. > > > Also I need help fetching a "vertical squiggly line" and an "upside- > down > fermatta" within http://home.earthlink.net/~markdlew/shw/ > DannyBoy.htm Mark > Lews adapt. :confused: > > > Lastly, > > I was perusing the template(s) for piano and voice. > I wonder how that looks when done? Try it and see. Paul Scott _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by James E. Bailey-2
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Am 04.05.2008 um 03:44 schrieb plasmacarwash: > > Dear James, > > Actually I was wondering, once we set the time signature and choose > which > value our notes will be (half, quart, eighth) -does the program > automatically create the desired bars? > The appropriate measures? > I assume it does after that input. Kinda. Assuming all of your bars are compete, then you'll have no problems. What makes lilypond good is that it does all of the layout, you just tell it what you want. If, however, you have \time 4/4 d'4 d'4 e'2. | or \time 4/4 d'4 d'2 | Lilypond will have problems, and the more I think about it it, the more I like that. > > > > Also I need help fetching a "vertical squiggly line" and an "upside- > down > fermatta" within http://home.earthlink.net/~markdlew/shw/ > DannyBoy.htm Mark > Lews adapt. :confused: That's a common musical symbol for harpists and keyboard players, arpeggio. you get that by adding \arpeggio to a chord. See section 1.3.3.2 of the 2.11 documentation. > > > > Lastly, > > I was perusing the template(s) for piano and voice. > I wonder how that looks when done? > Do I just load up all the lyrics I have already within the "voice" > section? There are several ways of adding lyrics. for a simple song like this, probably the easiest way would be to first make sure the vocal part has all of the ties, "~" and slurs, "( )" needed to make sure all of the syllables that are sung over more than one written note are grouped together. e.g., cal -- ling in mm. 7 needs to be fis'8( e'8) cis'4~ cis'8. so that you can use the simple \addlyrics function directly after your music in your lilypond file. For example \score { {fis'8( e'8) cis'4~ cis'8 e'8 gis'8 a'8} \addlyrics {cal -- ling from glen to} } would give you mm. 7 > > > I expect that section to be pretty disproportionate compared to the > remaining few sections left in the template provided. > > Also, Kieren MacMillans help has held its own, so, I'm ok with the > 'horizontal spacing" issue from yesteryear. > > Thank-you James. > > -Jay Peek > I would also suggest using the 2.11 documentation if you aren't already, it's a bit easier to read, certainly more thorough, and makes using lilypond a lot clearer. > > > > > > > > James E. Bailey-2 wrote: >> >> Am 03.05.2008 um 04:24 schrieb plasmacarwash: >> >>> >>> Hey Forum, >>> >>> I am transcribing Danny Boy from this mans arrang. >>> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~markdlew/shw/DannyBoy.htm (Mark D. >>> Lew) . >>> >>> (3 pages short) >>> >>> It is from key 'D' to 'C' that I desire. >>> >>> I need only help on the vocal. >>> >>> I already have the notes and lyrics typed and coordinated one above >>> the >>> other. >>> >>> I also need help with a WIN 98 indiosyncracy with 2.11.45 ( and all >>> previous >>> versions, btw). >>> >>> Horizontal spacing. >>> >>> I was helped here and got some good fixes ( like "ragged") but I >>> just wanted >>> to give you a heads up before we work with your particular style >>> code. >>> >>> Is there anybody out there tonite? >>> >>> much love, >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> P.S. http://www.nabble.com/horizontal-spacing-to12377970.html#a12379149 >>> topic of horizontal spacing last year >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://www.nabble.com/Help-getting-started-with-Danny-Boy-tp17030765p17030765.html >>> Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at >>> Nabble.com. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> lilypond-user mailing list >>> lilypond-user@... >>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user >> >> >> What kind of specific help do you need? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lilypond-user mailing list >> lilypond-user@... >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Help-getting-started-with-Danny-Boy-tp17030765p17041836.html > Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > _______________________________________________ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@... > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by James E. Bailey-2
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Am 04.05.2008 um 05:59 schrieb Paul Scott:
I'm sorry, if this is rude, but this is a real pet peeve of mine. Rather than saying, "Oh, okay, try in section 1.2.1.1 of the lilypond documentation or section 2 of the learning manual" people, especially in GNU or open software, simply reply with "RTFM". Okay, I started with lilypond version 2.6 and let me tell you all something, lilypond was the first open-source program that I as an end-user dealt with. The documentation was very confusing, I didn't read it every day, and even when I did read it, I didn't understand it. An answer like, "have you read the tutorial" implies that the person questioning hasn't read the tutorial. I'll tell you all a little secret, I've never read the tutorial. It's far too complicated. I'm not a computer programmer, I'm a composer. I don't understand scheme functions, I don't want to understand scheme functions, I just want an easy way to typeset music that isn't as frustrating as finale and doesn't require such bloated software. I understand that the documentation attempts to cover the questions people would have about how to use the program, and that the getting started and first steps are designed (and do a pretty good job of) getting new users started and showing them the first steps, but the documentation is kind of daunting, and finding information in it is sometimes overwhelming. Especially when you, as a new user of open-source software are thinking, "this is a pretty easy and straightforward question, I've used documentation before, why can't I find the answer to my question?" If you read his questions, you can see that he's probably started reading the manual, but hasn't actually typeset any music. It looks to me like he's just wondering how things work. Regardless, "have you read the tutorial" without specific reference to where in the tutorial he should read is a pretty daunting task. I think of it like if somewhere were to ask, "what's that bit about loving your neighbor? Does that just mean the person who lives next door to me?" and the answer is, "well, have you read the bible?" The two are pretty similar. He does a great job of asking specific questions, and "have you read the tutorial" is about as bad an answer as the question "how does the program work?" Those kinds of questions are non-specific and don't help anyone. Just to let you know, I tried using lilypond at versioin 2.6, but I couldn't because the documentation was completely confusing and people who understood the program were unwilling to help me. This was my very first question to this user list: On 26-Dec-05, at 4:16 PM, address@hidden wrote:Hello, I'm very new to this and trying to figure out how to get output. I can modify the file I find online and get output, but somehow I'm missing some information to correctly parse a file. I'm trying to find some help in the documentation (both online and in the pdf) and cannot understand what I need to get output.Have you read the tutorial? Lilypond is not the kind of program you can use in five or ten minutes; please read the tutorial carefully, and follow the steps. - Graham(sorry, graham) I thought I said clearly that I a) was looking for help in the documentation, both online and pdf, and b) didn't understand something. Rather than providing a response that encourages me to continue looking in the documentation, and looking for ways to find answers to my solutions, pointing out to me the errors, the response is just "RTFM". And, I even went so far as to post my exact file. I got two similar "read the tutorial responses". I was so angry, I thought, "I AM reading the tutorial, I just don't understand it. Can somebody please explain to me what I don't understand from the tutorial?" This response was all I needed: > Hello new user, I hope you don't give up. > We all tend to make mistakes in typing and this was your case: > Please replace /clef with \clef. Then replace c""8 with c''8 (notice that > it's TWO single quotes: ' and ' not ONE ". > Cheers, > > Eduardo Vieira > > P. S. Go deeper in studying the manual. The point is, how to ask a question really helped me, and how to answer a question was even more helpful. I learned a little insight into the people who were probably answering my questions. Like I said, it's a personal peeve, it's not limited to lilypond, but lilypond was a music typesetting program, and that mattered to me, and when I first tried lilypond, I was really upset at those first answers I got. Just remember that when you say, "have you read the documentation?" that you're talking about a 400-page book, and while the answer may there, finding and interpreting it are the difficult parts, and more often than not, the person asking the question is looking at the documentation and just needs help finding and interpreting the answers that are there. </rant> _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by Peter Wright-2
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On 04/05 09:38:29, James E. Bailey wrote:
> Am 04.05.2008 um 05:59 schrieb Paul Scott: [ snip plasmacarwash's questions ] >> Have you read the tutorial? >> >> We can help you better if you show us what you have tried. > > I'm sorry, if this is rude, but this is a real pet peeve of mine. > Rather than saying, "Oh, okay, try in section 1.2.1.1 of the > lilypond documentation or section 2 of the learning manual" people, > especially in GNU or open software, simply reply with "RTFM". [ snip ] > An answer like, "have you read the tutorial" implies that the person > questioning hasn't read the tutorial. It could be implying that, yes, but it could also be a reminder, a gentle hint, or even a genuine question. Or perhaps all four :). One of the things I usually try to do *first* when trying to help someone on an IT-related problem is to work out how much they know. It wastes everybody's time if you give a short answer that can't be understood by the original questioner - and similarly if you give a very-carefully-explained answer to someone who didn't need it. I think Paul's second sentence ("We can help you better if you show us what you have tried.") clarifies that that was the point of the question in this case. By the way - in case you haven't read it before, this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ...is worth a read. Or sometimes a re-read. :) > If you read his questions, you can see that he's probably started > reading the manual, but hasn't actually typeset any music. It looks > to me like he's just wondering how things work. That's part of the background that information that questions like "have you read the tutorial?" are intended to draw out. :) (By the way, I agree that the answer you got to _your_ question was probably a tad curt.) > The point is, how to ask a question really helped me, and how to > answer a question was even more helpful. I learned a little insight > into the people who were probably answering my questions. The most important insight is that people are _usually_ willing to help if they can (aside from the occasional sociopath), so it's a good idea to make it easy as possible for them to help. Pete. -- "Expressions including c (call-with-current-continuation) function calls tend to be hopelessly difficult to track down. This was, of course, the reason for including it in the language in the first place." -- Unlambda: Your Functional Programming Language Nightmares Come True _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by Valentin Villenave
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2008/5/4 Peter Wright <pete@...>:
> On 04/05 09:38:29, James E. Bailey wrote: > > Am 04.05.2008 um 05:59 schrieb Paul Scott: > [ snip plasmacarwash's questions ] > > >> Have you read the tutorial? > >> > >> We can help you better if you show us what you have tried. > I think Paul's second sentence ("We can help you better if you show us > what you have tried.") clarifies that that was the point of the > question in this case. +1! I think Paul posted exactly the right answer. It was far less rude than anything Graham (for instance) would have replied, and it was more or less what I would have answered myself. Asking whether people who are new at LilyPond have read the tutorial is an absolute necessary first step. Moreover, such people are not necessarily used to post code snippets. Therefore, asking for some code is always a good choice. James, you might have experienced some bad feelings with someone's answers, but please, please remember that someone *did* answer you at all, which is not taken for granted when you're a newbie on a mailing list. Pete is absolutely right, people *are* willing to help. Even Graham, though it takes a lot to understand he is :-) Cheers, Valentin _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by Paul Scott-3
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On May 4, 2008, at 12:38 AM, James E. Bailey wrote:
Have a great day, Paul _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by plasmacarwash
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Hey Folks,
I read through much of the discourse here and appreciate it all. Directly after posting the 1st time, I started in on the "new manual". I experienced the typical sensation of being away from Lilypond for over 10 mos. If ya don't use it, ya lose it. In addition, I read somewhere that there are 4 basic books to the "manual". The "learning manual" is different than 10 mos. ago, true? Nonetheless, I had a split motive: 1) I did kinda want a magic wand to blast this job out and be done with it. 2) I kinda dream of having a writing proficiency with Lilypond. A veritable songwriting partner. Sitting where I am now with it, I seemed to be dwarfed in my infancy. I'm not even answering all the feedback from all because it's late in the day and I just got the email. Thinking about Lilypond though gives me a strange glee throughout my days. If I can add it to the way I write, that would be awesome. I have three essential ways in which song comes to me now. Hopefully Lilypond could take the lead. Does anyone know of anyone similiar here? I would like to pick-up composition while here at the forums also. So delusions of grandeur do inhabit my requests here at Lilypond Nabble as well.  Thank-you all for the technical and the passion -the Rubenstein and the Horowitz. -Jay Peek
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Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy
by Trevor Daniels
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Jay Peek wrote > In addition, I read somewhere that there are 4 basic books to the > "manual". > The "learning manual" is different than 10 mos. ago, true? True! The Learning Manual in particular has been largely rewritten since then and is the place to start. The manuals for the development release (2.11.xx) are not yet complete, but already they contain much more than the manuals for 2.10 and, in the main, apply just as well to recent earlier releases. You can find them from http://www.lilypond.org by following the link to the documentation for 2.11.xx. The four manuals are: Learning Manual - intended to be read sequentially to teach you how to use LilyPond. Chapters 1 & 2 for early users Chapters 3 & 4 for more advanced topics Notation Reference - for experienced users who want to look up something or who want to see all the detail about a topic. Application Usage - how to install and run the programs Music Glossary - mainly to translate music terms into other languages, but also useful as a general glossary of music terms. > Nonetheless, I had a split motive: > 1) I did kinda want a magic wand to blast this job out and be done with > it. In my experience no music typesetting program can do this for you, unless you have very low expectations. > 2) I kinda dream of having a writing proficiency with Lilypond. > Thinking about Lilypond though gives me a strange glee throughout my days. > If I can add it to the way I write, that would be awesome. The Learning Manual should give you this, with a little effort on your part and the will-power to work through it from the beginning. If while doing this you come across something you do not understand after a reasonable amount of thought please post to this list saying what and where it was, so we can improve that section for you and others. > -Jay Peek Trevor _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@... http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user |
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