Help with a Greek artist

[Chad Wilson-2]

Hi there

I've just been editing the Greek 70s hard/prog rock band Tα 4 Επίπεδα Της Ύπαρξης (The 4 Levels of Existence) to try and bring their entry into line, so I can properly credit the sample from this Jay-Z track: http://musicbrainz.org/track/8b393866-9876-48a5-a891-b9786ef4809e.html

Anyway, I'd appreciate it if someone who knows Greek could take a look at the artist and release entries, as well as the associated entries for the band members. I have tried to enter appropriate sort names and aliases for each; but I am cut and paste and guess-case-ing since I can neither read nor type Greek. :)

http://musicbrainz.org/artist/c374d298-dc78-4a7d-acba-1955eba56865.html
http://musicbrainz.org/release/fd31773d-5d2b-4729-a89d-66f7bd48f5c5.html

Thanks!
Chad / voice
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[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2009/10/21 Chad Wilson <chad.wilson@...>

Hi there

I've just been editing the Greek 70s hard/prog rock band Tα 4 Επίπεδα Της Ύπαρξης (The 4 Levels of Existence) to try and bring their entry into line, so I can properly credit the sample from this Jay-Z track: http://musicbrainz.org/track/8b393866-9876-48a5-a891-b9786ef4809e.html

Anyway, I'd appreciate it if someone who knows Greek could take a look at the artist and release entries, as well as the associated entries for the band members. I have tried to enter appropriate sort names and aliases for each; but I am cut and paste and guess-case-ing since I can neither read nor type Greek. :)

http://musicbrainz.org/artist/c374d298-dc78-4a7d-acba-1955eba56865.html
http://musicbrainz.org/release/fd31773d-5d2b-4729-a89d-66f7bd48f5c5.html

I only studied classical Greek, so if a Greek MB user answers, forget what I am going to say.

From what I can see, I believe the discogs track listing is much more coherent. Do you have the release? If so, be careful, some greek characters graphically look like roman letters but they have completely different meanings: "η" is actually a vowel, it means something like "e" in "care", "ρ" is actually our "r" and should definitely not be written as a "p" IMO... So if I were you, I'd check if the discogs tracik listing is acually close to what is on the sleeve and if so copy and paste from discogs to MB. The only track where I have a doubt is the last one: I guess "Μέρα" in discogs should acutally be "Ημέρα".

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Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org


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[Chad Wilson-2]

Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:

> From what I can see, I believe the discogs track listing is much more
> coherent. Do you have the release? If so, be careful, some greek
> characters graphically look like roman letters but they have
> completely different meanings: "η" is actually a vowel, it means
> something like "e" in "care", "ρ" is actually our "r" and should
> definitely not be written as a "p" IMO... So if I were you, I'd check
> if the discogs tracik listing is acually close to what is on the
> sleeve and if so copy and paste from discogs to MB. The only track
> where I have a doubt is the last one: I guess "Μέρα" in discogs should
> acutally be "Ημέρα".

Thanks for taking a look.

I don't have the release, nor a scan of the back cover. I copied and
pasted track titles from the official site, where I believe they are
capitalized, and used "guess case". I'm not sure if this is correct
methodology. The titles were from the right hand side of
http://www.the4levelsofexistence.com/diskos.html where they do seem to
use more regular latin characters in places discogs does not. I don't
know which is more correct with respect to the release or
contemporary/70s Greek. I kinda tended towards the official website,
since the discogs history of the release didn't give me much confidence.

I mainly just wanted to add the samples link to the correct,
non-translated original release, and give the composition credits.

Chad



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[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2009/10/21 Chad Wilson <chad.wilson@...>

Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
> From what I can see, I believe the discogs track listing is much more
> coherent. Do you have the release? If so, be careful, some greek
> characters graphically look like roman letters but they have
> completely different meanings: "η" is actually a vowel, it means
> something like "e" in "care", "ρ" is actually our "r" and should
> definitely not be written as a "p" IMO... So if I were you, I'd check
> if the discogs tracik listing is acually close to what is on the
> sleeve and if so copy and paste from discogs to MB. The only track
> where I have a doubt is the last one: I guess "Μέρα" in discogs should
> acutally be "Ημέρα".

Thanks for taking a look.

I don't have the release, nor a scan of the back cover. I copied and
pasted track titles from the official site, where I believe they are
capitalized, and used "guess case". I'm not sure if this is correct
methodology. The titles were from the right hand side of
http://www.the4levelsofexistence.com/diskos.html where they do seem to
use more regular latin characters in places discogs does not. I don't
know which is more correct with respect to the release or
contemporary/70s Greek. I kinda tended towards the official website,
since the discogs history of the release didn't give me much confidence.

I mainly just wanted to add the samples link to the correct,
non-translated original release, and give the composition credits.

Ok, now I understand some differences. First of all, the web site don't "use more regular latin characters", it is just that upper case Greek characters look more like ours :-) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet for upper - lower case characters.

I guess GuessCase is completely unable to handle Greek, although http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Capitalization_Standard_Greek seems to think otherwise. It capitalized all words, although Capitalization_Standard_Greek says only the first word should be capitalized.

For example, Μεταμορφή would be pronounced something like metamorphe (the "e" are wrong here, because English "e" means so many different sounds, but this is an approximation) Did you notice that I used the character "r"? In lower case Greek it is written "ρ" (notice that this is character rho, not a "p". In upper case, it is written "P". But this is still not our Latin "P", it is still a rho, which happens to look like our Latin upper case P. The upper case for Μεταμορφή would indeed be METAMOPΦH, the 6th character here is not an upper case "p", but a rho, so that if you set it back to lower case, you should get back to Μεταμορφή. Or if you want to latinize it, Metamorphe. I hope I haven't completely lost you :-)

Another example: "υ" is more or less the equivalent of english "u". Lower case is "υ", but upper case is "Y". GuessCase lower cased it to "y" which is wrong.

I checked all tracks, the only differences are
tonic accents (I'd keep them, maybe they don't
track 2 Λυώσουνε -> ΛIΩΣOYNE (the upper case is repeated in the lyrics, so the λιώσουνε spelling seems correct),
track 5 Τρελλού -> TPEΛOY, once again the lyrics confirm that Τρελού is the correct spelling
track 10 I found ημέρα in track 8's lyrics

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org


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[Nikki-21]

Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
> Ok, now I understand some differences. First of all, the web site
> don't "use
> more regular latin characters", it is just that upper case Greek characters
> look more like ours :-) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet for
> upper - lower case characters.
>  

The page on the official website which Chad linked to really is using
Latin characters when the capitals look the same. I don't know why,
since they obviously can write Greek characters...

> I guess GuessCase is completely unable to handle Greek, although
> http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Capitalization_Standard_Greek seems to think
> otherwise. It capitalized all words, although Capitalization_Standard_Greek
> says only the first word should be capitalized.
>  

Presumably Chad used the English mode instead of sentence mode. It works
fine (except for the issue with sigma) for me.

Nikki

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[daydreamer]

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Hey there, the Greek took his time, but is here! :P
I'll try and help. :)

btw the [untitled] track really seems to have a title, namely χωρίς τίτλο which means untitled in greek but still, it is a title.
Also the artist sortname should be the transliteration and not the translation.

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