Help. Live axle Fury.

[ottocycle1-21]

Hello all.
I have a live axled Fury  that has s seriously damaged rear axle. As I am in the US and Escort
parts are very rare over here. I am considering using a Toyota or Alfa Romeo rear axle that
have similar track widths. I have no jigs and will be transferring the dimensions from my
axle. One of the arms that carry the right trailing arms has torn away from the axle so I will
not have the accuracy I would like.
I am thinking of using rod ends on the right side to give me a modicum of adjustability to
compensate for setup errors. I understand that there is a binding in the rear should one use
4 rod ends on both sides but I think it will be OK with one side only. Am I correct?
I understand all dimensions are critical but where should I  be particularly accurate. Any tips
on how to approach this and what toe and camber numbers should I shoot for?
When welding the axle should I strip it or does the extra material help stabilize and help
minimize distortion?
I found  seem to be bottoming the rear springs (180 lb. 8" long springs, 12" shocks, about 3"
travel) causing the car to oversteer suddenly and spin out. Should I install a 9" spring or
change over to a longer shock?
I will appreciate any feedback and advice.
Thanks,

Dermot

[Gordon Griffin]

Dermot
 
I would fit rod ends on the bottom arms (more heavily loaded under acceleration) and bushes on the top arms.  If you fit rod ends one side and bushes the other you risk the axle skewing under power which will give some odd handling.
 
Generally axles are designed to be straight - 0 toe and 0 camber, but I've had up to 1 degree on Ford and Ital axles by cutting and welding the tubes near the diff with no problem - the splines take up the misalignment OK.  For track work, a little rear camber may be useful, but I wouldnt bother with toe.
 
Strip the axle for welding  there wiill be grit and spatter going everywhere and you dont want that churning around the CWP.
 
Lightening or strengthening will depend on the power you are putting down and what the axle's like to start with.  I'd be tempted to take out anything heavy and brace the axle and brackets with tube, which wil llikely be stronger and lighter.  If you've ripped out brackets already (assuming this wasnt as a result of an immediately preceding failure of talent) then some strengthening is problably a good thing.
G


To: bike-engined-cars@...: dermotmc@...: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 03:52:07 +0000Subject: [bike-engined-cars] Help. Live axle Fury.




Hello all. I have a live axled Fury that has s seriously damaged rear axle. As I am in the US and Escort parts are very rare over here. I am considering using a Toyota or Alfa Romeo rear axle that have similar track widths. I have no jigs and will be transferring the dimensions from my axle. One of the arms that carry the right trailing arms has torn away from the axle so I will not have the accuracy I would like.I am thinking of using rod ends on the right side to give me a modicum of adjustability to compensate for setup errors. I understand that there is a binding in the rear should one use 4 rod ends on both sides but I think it will be OK with one side only. Am I correct?I understand all dimensions are critical but where should I be particularly accurate. Any tips on how to approach this and what toe and camber numbers should I shoot for?When welding the axle should I strip it or does the extra material help stabilize and help minimize distortion?I found seem to be bottoming the rear springs (180 lb. 8" long springs, 12" shocks, about 3" travel) causing the car to oversteer suddenly and spin out. Should I install a 9" spring or change over to a longer shock?I will appreciate any feedback and advice.Thanks,Dermot







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Lackey-2]

You could have rod ends on one end of the link and a bushing at the other, but don't do rod ends on one side of the car and bushings on the other. 
That will change your handling characteristics depending on whether you accelerate or decelerate.
I don't know much about the Fury (I also live in the states) but you may want to investigate using an axle from a '84-'87 RWD Corolla.  They used a 4-link rear suspension and who knows, maybe it would save you some welding.  The Corollas are popular for racing and the axles are also used in Legends and Dwarf cars so there are a wide variety of parts available for them.

Mike

----- Original Message ----
From: ottocycle1 <dermotmc@...>
To: bike-engined-cars@...
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:52:07 PM
Subject: [bike-engined-cars] Help. Live axle Fury.


Hello all.
I have a live axled Fury that has s seriously damaged rear axle. As I am in the US and Escort
parts are very rare over here. I am considering using a Toyota or Alfa Romeo rear axle that
have similar track widths. I have no jigs and will be transferring the dimensions from my
axle. One of the arms that carry the right trailing arms has torn away from the axle so I will
not have the accuracy I would like.
I am thinking of using rod ends on the right side to give me a modicum of adjustability to
compensate for setup errors. I understand that there is a binding in the rear should one use
4 rod ends on both sides but I think it will be OK with one side only. Am I correct?
I understand all dimensions are critical but where should I be particularly accurate. Any tips
on how to approach this and what toe and camber numbers should I shoot for?
When welding the axle should I strip it or does the extra material help stabilize and help
minimize distortion?
I found seem to be bottoming the rear springs (180 lb. 8" long springs, 12" shocks, about 3"
travel) causing the car to oversteer suddenly and spin out. Should I install a 9" spring or
change over to a longer shock?
I will appreciate any feedback and advice.
Thanks,

Dermot

 


     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joe-209]

Hi All,

I am totally familiar with motorcycle engines both types, wher the
tranny is part of the engine. like say most japanese bikes,  and
seperate engine and tranny  like say harleys etc.

what i have zero knowledge of is the drive ststems on the high
performance and speed ATV's.

how are they made?

just tginking here of a front wheel drive reverse trike using an atv
drive train.  hmmm?
joe

>  
>

[JB7]

I Picked up a low mileage FI blackbird engine from ebay that's suffered a
very unusual failure.

The last journal on the inlet camshaft has been starved of oil and has
obviously chewed the camshaft and head. The engine was in the bike when it
failed and according the seller, wasn't involved in a crash.

It's a very unusual failure and I was wondering what would cause it.  Oil is
supplied to the camshafts from the cam chain end and fed through the centre
of the camshaft and out through exit holes on the lobes and journals. Being
furthest away from the oil feed it has failed where you would expect first
but the question is why?

The rest of the engine seems fine and once I pop a carbed head on it I plan
to fit it to the rarebird but I'd love to know why it failed in the first
place

Any thoughts?

JR

[Gordon Griffin]

Blocked oilway in the cam?
Contamination in that bearing journal, causing the bearing to pick up, leading on to ultimate failure?
Weak/partially blocked oil supply to the head, leaving that bearing as the last to get the limited supply of oil and the first to suffer?
 
Could also be any number of other issues, but most of those that spring to mind are in the head.  If you've replaced that then you ought to be OK I'd have thought (so long as no chewed up bits of anything have found their way back into the rest of the engine).  Check the oil feed to the head and the rest of the short engine oil system thoroughly (have the pump apart for a start, flush the oilways with petrol etc) and you should be OK I'd have thought.
 
Of course, your root problem is that you're using the Wrong Engine. You really need a zx12r (or a Busa if you really like the low revving thing).  Even an R1 would give better performance than the old Bird, and you could rename it the RaR1ty.;-)
 
G



To: bike-engined-cars@...: jonathan@...: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:00:45 +0100Subject: RE: [bike-engined-cars] Blackbird Inlet Camshaft Failure - Why?




I Picked up a low mileage FI blackbird engine from ebay that's suffered avery unusual failure.The last journal on the inlet camshaft has been starved of oil and hasobviously chewed the camshaft and head. The engine was in the bike when itfailed and according the seller, wasn't involved in a crash.It's a very unusual failure and I was wondering what would cause it. Oil issupplied to the camshafts from the cam chain end and fed through the centreof the camshaft and out through exit holes on the lobes and journals. Beingfurthest away from the oil feed it has failed where you would expect firstbut the question is why?The rest of the engine seems fine and once I pop a carbed head on it I planto fit it to the rarebird but I'd love to know why it failed in the firstplaceAny thoughts?JR






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[JB7]

Hi gordon

Yeh contamination seems favorite at the moment. The engines go forever
...it's the human interference element that causes them to fail :)))))

Just be nice to find something positive knowing that when I install it all
will be well .... As opposed to listening & wating for it all to go wrong
:)))

Will keep you posted

Jr

What do you mean wrong engine..... Pah ... My engine has just cracked 70,000
miles I'll have you know ... Like to see an R1 do that in a car :))))

[Gordon Griffin]

You want high mileage?  You'll be needing a Zetec then, or even a VAG turbo diesel...
 
Heresy!  An R1 is fast enough that you can stop after 10000 miles, change the engine and still be ahead of the Bird.. hehehe.G



To: bike-engined-cars@...: jonathan@...: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:33:44 +0100Subject: RE: [bike-engined-cars] Blackbird Inlet Camshaft Failure - Why?




Hi gordonYeh contamination seems favorite at the moment. The engines go forever...it's the human interference element that causes them to fail :)))))Just be nice to find something positive knowing that when I install it allwill be well .... As opposed to listening & wating for it all to go wrong:)))Will keep you postedJrWhat do you mean wrong engine..... Pah ... My engine has just cracked 70,000miles I'll have you know ... Like to see an R1 do that in a car :))))






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[banwellgarage-109]

gordon,
 
especially if josh was driving!!!
 
 
Kind Regards
 
  Darcy



   


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[JB7]

> An R1 is fast enough that you can stop after 10000 miles, change the
engine and still be ahead of the Bird.. hehehe.G

Ok I admit to really laughing out loud at that one Gordon ..... ;)))))

JR

[Gordon Griffin]

Glad you took it in the spirit intended!
G



To: bike-engined-cars@...: jonathan@...: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:59:52 +0100Subject: RE: [bike-engined-cars] Blackbird Inlet Camshaft Failure - Why?




> An R1 is fast enough that you can stop after 10000 miles, change theengine and still be ahead of the Bird.. hehehe.GOk I admit to really laughing out loud at that one Gordon ..... ;)))))JR






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Phil and Jenny Lovegrove-18]

Hi All

I have just taken my FI Blackbird Bird Fury out of storage for the winter.
It seems to have woken up with a new ailment.  At idle in neutral it is
making a horrible squeal/squeak.  When driven it becomes a harsher more
metallic knock.  Still seems to drive and rev though.  Any ideas and good
news only folks as I was recently made redundant!

Cheers

Phil Lovegrove

-----Original Message-----
From: bike-engined-cars@...
[mailto:bike-engined-cars@...]On Behalf Of Jonathan Rarity
Sent: 23 July 2008 10:01
To: bike-engined-cars@...
Subject: RE: [bike-engined-cars] Blackbird Inlet Camshaft Failure - Why?

I Picked up a low mileage FI blackbird engine from ebay that's suffered a
very unusual failure.

The last journal on the inlet camshaft has been starved of oil and has
obviously chewed the camshaft and head. The engine was in the bike when it
failed and according the seller, wasn't involved in a crash.

It's a very unusual failure and I was wondering what would cause it. Oil is
supplied to the camshafts from the cam chain end and fed through the centre
of the camshaft and out through exit holes on the lobes and journals. Being
furthest away from the oil feed it has failed where you would expect first
but the question is why?

The rest of the engine seems fine and once I pop a carbed head on it I plan
to fit it to the rarebird but I'd love to know why it failed in the first
place

Any thoughts?

JR



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[JB7]

 HI Phil

Hmm sounds odd ...need more info. Have you let it get fully up to
temperature? What does the oil pressure look like when hot at idle & at
higher revs. Unlikely to be anything major like bearings or camshaft
bearings as engine would lunch itself in no time if it was. Camshaft
tensioner sounds favorite ... They go without warning and the engine makes
horrible noises when they fail although you says it's a squeek which is odd.
Other possible could be water pump?

I'd check the tensioner first....2 minute job & cheap fix if it is that

jr

-----Original Message-----
From: bike-engined-cars@...
[mailto:bike-engined-cars@...] On Behalf Of Phil and Jenny
Lovegrove
Sent: 09 April 2009 16:37
To: bike-engined-cars@...
Subject: RE: [bike-engined-cars] Blackbird Inlet Camshaft Failure - Why?


Hi All

I have just taken my FI Blackbird Bird Fury out of storage for the winter.
It seems to have woken up with a new ailment.  At idle in neutral it is
making a horrible squeal/squeak.  When driven it becomes a harsher more
metallic knock.  Still seems to drive and rev though.  Any ideas and good
news only folks as I was recently made redundant!

Cheers

Phil Lovegrove

[Phil and Jenny Lovegrove-18]

Hi Jonathan/list

Unfortunately I don't have an oil pressure gauge plumbed in - just a low
pressure warning light.  The LPWL is not illuminated when the engine is
running and the engine has plenty of oil (with accusump giving some
reserve).  The noise has come on fast and got steadily worse.  It is also
difficult to locate where it is coming from.  At first when driving I
thought that it was the daisy wheel on my hall effect speedo sensor in the
tunnel.  The noise was worse when at higher revs and pulling hard.  It is
now present when at idle but sounds different from the sound under load.
The noise seems less when the clutch is depressed, but doesn't go away.

I am going up to see a mate in Fife on Tue-thurs this week and intend to
investigate further then.  We had wondered if it was clutch related.  If so
does the BB engine warrant a Barnet set up?

Rgds
Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: bike-engined-cars@...
[mailto:bike-engined-cars@...]On Behalf Of Jonathan Rarity
Sent: 14 April 2009 10:57
To: bike-engined-cars@...
Subject: RE: [bike-engined-cars] Blackbird Inlet Camshaft Failure - Why?





HI Phil

Hmm sounds odd ...need more info. Have you let it get fully up to
temperature? What does the oil pressure look like when hot at idle & at
higher revs. Unlikely to be anything major like bearings or camshaft
bearings as engine would lunch itself in no time if it was. Camshaft
tensioner sounds favorite ... They go without warning and the engine makes
horrible noises when they fail although you says it's a squeek which is odd.
Other possible could be water pump?

I'd check the tensioner first....2 minute job & cheap fix if it is that

jr

-----Original Message-----
From: bike-engined-cars@...
<mailto:bike-engined-cars%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
[mailto: bike-engined-cars@...
<mailto:bike-engined-cars%40yahoogroups.co.uk> ] On Behalf Of Phil and Jenny
Lovegrove
Sent: 09 April 2009 16:37
To: bike-engined-cars@...
<mailto:bike-engined-cars%40yahoogroups.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [bike-engined-cars] Blackbird Inlet Camshaft Failure - Why?

Hi All

I have just taken my FI Blackbird Bird Fury out of storage for the winter.
It seems to have woken up with a new ailment. At idle in neutral it is
making a horrible squeal/squeak. When driven it becomes a harsher more
metallic knock. Still seems to drive and rev though. Any ideas and good
news only folks as I was recently made redundant!

Cheers

Phil Lovegrove



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]