Nabble - Hercules390 - Vm

Re: Need help badly

2009-12-06T09:02:13Z

--- In H390-VM@..., "jimge" <jimge@...> wrote:
>
> I thought I was the only one that had one of those in my garage! :)
>
>Are you implying there's software out there that can translate a
>3270 data stream from Hercules to a normal RS-232 connected
>terminal? If so, can you provide a pointer? I'd love to have VM
>running on an old-fashioned glass CRT, even if it's not the 3178-C
>I grew up with.

Well I have now replaced the Lithium Battery in the TeleVideo terminal so it no longer forgets its settings, so I have now posted some slightly fuzzy pictures of the setup to the Photos section of the group. You should find them here:-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/H390-VM/photos/album/1040167207/pic/list

The TeleVideo terminal goes to a serial port on the Sparc box. You logon to Solaris and can then connect to VM either as a 3270 fullscreen terminal or a 3215 console. The main problem is that the keys on the TV are too small so its not easy to type quickly.

>
> Thanks!!
>

I hope you enjoy,
Dave
G4UGM

> --- In H390-VM@..., Dave Wade <g4ugm@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Fish wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
> > >> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
> > >
> > > Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as in Dave
> > > Wade?)
> > >
> >
> > I only get in because I obviously have a sad life and don't do much real
> > work!. Anyway just to check every thing works I fired up my
> > SparcUltra60 which I got courtesy of Andy Norrie (Hope you are feeling a
> > bit better, Andy not seen you on here for a while) who has done lots of
> > work for us. Then I switched on my TeleVideo Personal Terminal:-
> >
> > http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fC4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA53&ots=6NP6giJHyJ&dq=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&f=false
> >
> > or
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/tvptvm370
> >
> > (isn't it swish) and after re-setting the config in the TeleVideo (I
> > think it used NVRam which has died) it works fine onto VM. I can use
> > C3270 and get a 3270 session, or vanilla TELNET and get a "normal" line
> > mode session. I'll try and post some pictures next week if any one is
> > interested.
> >
> >
> > > - --
> > > "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@
> > > Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> > > 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> > > http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
> > > PGP key fingerprints:
> > > DH/DSS: 9F9B BAB0 BA7F C458 1A89 FE26 48F5 D7F4 C4EE 3E2A
> > > RSA: 6B37 7110 7201 9917 9B0D 99E3 55DB 5D58 FADE 4A52
> > >
> >
> > Dave
> > G4UGM
> >
>

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-12-02T09:48:02Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 9:08 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Dave M, what systems do you have available? Those disks are as Jay
> stated
> 2.4M and are 5.25 in size. This means you'll need a disk drive that
> size of
> course, and then a supply of such disks. (Well a 1.2M drive can do
> that, but
> only if it's new enough.)

I am primarily Sun-based here, all high-end UltraSPARC machines,
III and above. Aside from the G5 (PowerPC G5, not S/390 G5!) on my
desk of course.

I didn't know a 1.2MB drive could write those 2.4MB floppies.
Hmmm...I don't have any PC hardware here; I could pick one up on
trash day and throw Linux on it to give that a try. Do you know
where I might find (at least one of) those disks?

> For Windows there's a program called WinImage. It's capable of
> reading and
> presumably writing out the disk images created by that IBM
> (internal only
> supposedly) tool.

No Windows here...The 3290 driver disk image that I have is a pure
byte-for-byte image; I should be able to write it using dd under any
UNIXish OS.

> Now what we need is a website listing our respective hardware
> collections.

That'd be neat. I've started some pages on my website describing
my vintage stuff, but it is woefully incomplete thus far. I'm adding
systems to it as I have time. It's here:

http://www.neurotica.com/wiki/Classic_Computing

But so far, it omits most of these:

http://www.neurotica.com/misc/wall-o-pdp.jpg

...and as mentioned, it's only my "vintage" stuff. My use-it-to-
make-a-living equipment isn't listed there...that's almost
exclusively high-end UltraSPARC hardware.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-12-01T14:13:22Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 10:11 PM, Jay Maynard wrote:
>> My -61R has the hard drive option and one floppy drive; I assume
>> that'll suffice.
>
> Yes, as long as it's a 2.4 meg floppy (and I suspect it will be).

Yes it is. I didn't know they came with any other kind.

>> I've never configured a 3174; I think I've heard somewhere that
>> it's done
>> with a CUT (not DFT) terminal on the first port, is that correct?
>
> Yes. If you don't have another terminal besides the 3290, you may
> have a
> hard time. I don't know for sure, though; dim memory tells me you
> can do it
> with a 3290 if you poke at it the right way.

I got a 3180 a few months ago, and I'm sure I got a keyboard with
it, but I'll be damned if I can find it. It's in the garage
somewhere, probably got stacked in an illogical spot whilst rushing
to unload a truck. I'll dig for it soon; I'm pretty excited to bring
up the 3174 and I'm drooling at the prospect of running the 3290. I
even have the keyboard and key for it. :-)

>>> I don't have a 3290, but have run a 3472 InfoWindow II that way just
>>> fine. It'll even emulate a VT220.
>> Ok, now that's sick and twisted. I like it. :)
>
> Almost as sick and twisted as using an Apple ][ as an MVS master
> console. I
> hooked up my roommate's Apple, running a VT100 emulator, to a
> 3174-1L with
> AEA, thence via Token Ring to the router PC, making it all run
> TN3270 into
> Hercules. I've even got a picture I show at SHARE. :-)

I LIKE IT!!

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-29T19:11:17Z

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 03:45:24PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
> My -61R has the hard drive option and one floppy drive; I assume
> that'll suffice.

Yes, as long as it's a 2.4 meg floppy (and I suspect it will be).

> I've never configured a 3174; I think I've heard somewhere that it's done
> with a CUT (not DFT) terminal on the first port, is that correct?

Yes. If you don't have another terminal besides the 3290, you may have a
hard time. I don't know for sure, though; dim memory tells me you can do it
with a 3290 if you poke at it the right way.

> Do you have any docs that you can share? I must admit that I'm kinda in
> the dark where 3174s are concerned.

There's doc on the IBM mainframe hardware site.

> > I don't have a 3290, but have run a 3472 InfoWindow II that way just
> > fine. It'll even emulate a VT220.
> Ok, now that's sick and twisted. I like it. :)

Almost as sick and twisted as using an Apple ][ as an MVS master console. I
hooked up my roommate's Apple, running a VT100 emulator, to a 3174-1L with
AEA, thence via Token Ring to the router PC, making it all run TN3270 into
Hercules. I've even got a picture I show at SHARE. :-)
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-29T18:08:43Z

Hello!
My! What an interesting turn this is making.
Dave M, what systems do you have available? Those disks are as Jay stated
2.4M and are 5.25 in size. This means you'll need a disk drive that size of
course, and then a supply of such disks. (Well a 1.2M drive can do that, but
only if it's new enough.)

For Windows there's a program called WinImage. It's capable of reading and
presumably writing out the disk images created by that IBM (internal only
supposedly) tool.

Now what we need is a website listing our respective hardware collections.

Incidentally Vanya are your snapshots pages listed someplace? (Fish you can
comment here.).

We need to get that up on the links portion of the site.
--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf
Of

> Dave McGuire
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 3:45 PM
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
>
> On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Jay Maynard wrote:
> >> I have been thinking of doing something "sorta" similar. I have a
> >> 3174-61R and a 3290 plasma terminal. If I can find the correct
> >> option module to give me Ethernet on the 3174 (it currently only has
> >> RS232), or get a newer controller that has Ethernet natively, I'll be
> >> setting that up. I've finally found a copy of the disk that allows
> >> the 3290 to IML from the 3174.
> >
> > Yay! That one's hard to find.
>
> Yes, it did take a while. I actually only have an image of the
> disk; I need to find a way to get it written to an actual floppy.
>
> > An alternative might be a Token Ring module for the -61R, and a
> > Token Ring
> > LAN card for your Hercules machine (or, at worst, a PC with Token
> > Ring and
> > Ethernet cards to play router).
>
> I'm running it under Solaris and OS X; I don't know (offhand) of
> any TR interfaces that are supported by those OSs. Otherwise yes,
> I'd probably do that.
>
> My core switch is a Catalyst 5505; I should be able to find a TR
> card cheaply for that. Otherwise the PC playing router sounds like a
> good alternative.
>
> > The Token Ring module is both a lot more
> > available and a lot less expensive than the Ethernet module; the
> > latter is
> > still sought after by datacenters for real production use. Don't
> > forget
> > you'll need 3 MB of RAM and two 2.4 MB floppy drives in the -61R,
> > as well as
> > Config C release 6 or greater (6.2 is the latest).
>
> My -61R has the hard drive option and one floppy drive; I assume
> that'll suffice. I've never configured a 3174; I think I've heard
> somewhere that it's done with a CUT (not DFT) terminal on the first
> port, is that correct? Do you have any docs that you can share? I
> must admit that I'm kinda in the dark where 3174s are concerned.
>
> > I don't have a 3290, but have run a 3472 InfoWindow II that way
> > just fine.
> > It'll even emulate a VT220.
>
> Ok, now that's sick and twisted. I like it. :)
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire
> Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-29T12:45:24Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Jay Maynard wrote:
>> I have been thinking of doing something "sorta" similar. I have a
>> 3174-61R and a 3290 plasma terminal. If I can find the correct
>> option module to give me Ethernet on the 3174 (it currently only has
>> RS232), or get a newer controller that has Ethernet natively, I'll be
>> setting that up. I've finally found a copy of the disk that allows
>> the 3290 to IML from the 3174.
>
> Yay! That one's hard to find.

Yes, it did take a while. I actually only have an image of the
disk; I need to find a way to get it written to an actual floppy.

> An alternative might be a Token Ring module for the -61R, and a
> Token Ring
> LAN card for your Hercules machine (or, at worst, a PC with Token
> Ring and
> Ethernet cards to play router).

I'm running it under Solaris and OS X; I don't know (offhand) of
any TR interfaces that are supported by those OSs. Otherwise yes,
I'd probably do that.

My core switch is a Catalyst 5505; I should be able to find a TR
card cheaply for that. Otherwise the PC playing router sounds like a
good alternative.

> The Token Ring module is both a lot more
> available and a lot less expensive than the Ethernet module; the
> latter is
> still sought after by datacenters for real production use. Don't
> forget
> you'll need 3 MB of RAM and two 2.4 MB floppy drives in the -61R,
> as well as
> Config C release 6 or greater (6.2 is the latest).

My -61R has the hard drive option and one floppy drive; I assume
that'll suffice. I've never configured a 3174; I think I've heard
somewhere that it's done with a CUT (not DFT) terminal on the first
port, is that correct? Do you have any docs that you can share? I
must admit that I'm kinda in the dark where 3174s are concerned.

> I don't have a 3290, but have run a 3472 InfoWindow II that way
> just fine.
> It'll even emulate a VT220.

Ok, now that's sick and twisted. I like it. :)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-29T12:02:15Z

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:14:25PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
> I have been thinking of doing something "sorta" similar. I have a
> 3174-61R and a 3290 plasma terminal. If I can find the correct
> option module to give me Ethernet on the 3174 (it currently only has
> RS232), or get a newer controller that has Ethernet natively, I'll be
> setting that up. I've finally found a copy of the disk that allows
> the 3290 to IML from the 3174.

Yay! That one's hard to find.

An alternative might be a Token Ring module for the -61R, and a Token Ring
LAN card for your Hercules machine (or, at worst, a PC with Token Ring and
Ethernet cards to play router). The Token Ring module is both a lot more
available and a lot less expensive than the Ethernet module; the latter is
still sought after by datacenters for real production use. Don't forget
you'll need 3 MB of RAM and two 2.4 MB floppy drives in the -61R, as well as
Config C release 6 or greater (6.2 is the latest).

I don't have a 3290, but have run a 3472 InfoWindow II that way just fine.
It'll even emulate a VT220.

For the guy with a TVI video terminal, you can do the same thing as long as
your 3174 has an Async Emulation Adapter in it
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-29T09:14:25Z

On Nov 27, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Dave Wade wrote:

>> I thought I was the only one that had one of those in my garage! :)
>>
>> Are you implying there's software out there that can translate a
>> 3270 data stream from Hercules to a normal RS-232 connected
>> terminal? If so, can you provide a pointer? I'd love to have VM
>> running on an old-fashioned glass CRT, even if it's not the 3178-C
>> I grew up with.
>>
>
> I thought I was stating, not implying. Any way to confirm I have :-
>
> 1. A TeleVideo Personal Terminal with RS232 null modem lead
> connected to..
> 2. A Sun Sparc Station Ultra60 running Solaris 9
> 3. I have a "terminfo" file set up for the terminal.
> 4. I login to a normal shell on the Sparc station from the terminal.
> 5. I can use C3270 to get a 3270 session on Hercules running on a
> Windows box.

Neat setup!

I have been thinking of doing something "sorta" similar. I have a
3174-61R and a 3290 plasma terminal. If I can find the correct
option module to give me Ethernet on the 3174 (it currently only has
RS232), or get a newer controller that has Ethernet natively, I'll be
setting that up. I've finally found a copy of the disk that allows
the 3290 to IML from the 3174.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-29T09:08:25Z

On Nov 27, 2009, at 9:40 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> What? A Sun UltraSPARC system? I have here perked on top of an S100
> box who
> will be restoring RSN a US5 who runs Solaris 10 and is currently
> sleeping.

Speaking of UltraSPARCs...Old Sun machines are fun for hacking
around, but you should see how Hercules runs on big, modern
UltraSPARC systems. I'll be bringing up a new 24-CPU system at work
in a few weeks and will have it all to myself for a little
while...three guesses what I'll be doing. ;) I plan to run VM/370
faster than it has ever been run before, just because I can! B-)

I occasionally run it on a quad-processor V480 here, and it's
rather zippy. After my company's funding comes through (which means
a big raise for me) I'll likely pick up another one and dedicate it
to Hercules. The machines are cheap, but power isn't!

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

Re: latest release of GCCCMS

2009-11-29T04:30:38Z

--- In H390-VM@..., "vmdave9" <dave@...> wrote:
>
> Can someone please point me in the right direction
> for downloading the latest release of GCCCMS (GCC
> for the VM/CMS environment) and it's accompanying
> runtime library (preferably one using native CMS
> interfaces and not the OS macro simulation one).

It's an either/or situation.

The latest release of GCCCMS, which uses OS
macros, is after the release of vm/370 sixpack,
which has both versions. All of the versions
should be fine though, unless you hit upon one
of the small number of bugs found.

That's always going to be a moving target. I've
just spent a week tracking down a bug in the
MUSIC/SP port only to find that I merely
managed to mask the bug, not solve it, so still
working on it.

BFN. Paul.

Re: latest release of GCCCMS

2009-11-28T16:12:52Z

--- In H390-VM@..., "vmdave9" <dave@...> wrote:
> Can someone please point me in the right direction for downloading
> the latest release of GCCCMS (GCC for the VM/CMS environment) and
> it's accompanying runtime library (preferably one using native CMS
> interfaces and not the OS macro simulation one).
>
It is included in this distribution of the VM sixpack
<http://vmdist.homelinux.org/vm370sixpack-1_1.zip> :

New features of the "SixPack" include:

o The Gnu C Compiler, with both a "traditional" runtime library
(PDPCLIB) and a "native CMS" runtime library (GCCLIB).
Type HELP GCC for information on compiling C programs.

Not sure if it is included in the GCCCMS distribution
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/gccmvs/files/GCCCMS/GCC%203.2.3%20CMS%2\
07.6/gcccms-3_2_3-7_6-win32.zip/download> .

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-28T15:53:24Z

On Nov 28, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Fish wrote:

>>>> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times
>>>> you contribute to our group, you have nearly infinite
>>>> credit here.
>>>
>>> Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W?
>>> (as in Dave Wade?)
>>
>> Awww damn! ;)
>
> Boy I sure am glad you're being such a good sport about all this Dave,
> because apparently I was wrong: Greg *did* mean you!
>
> Please accept my *sincerest* of apologies for my faux pas. :(

No worries here..

> p.s. Please forgive me for asking Dave, but I must have been out of
> the loop
> for too long: what the heck did you DO to earn your "infinite credit"?
> Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying you don't deserve it!
> No, no, no!
> I'm just saying I'm not FAMILIAR with it, that's all (and I very
> much *do*
> wish to be familiar with it to prevent such social blunders in the
> future).

Well honestly I can't think of any one thing in particular! I
have a few answers here and there, I have some code here and
there...I'm unbelievably cool, does that help? [dave runs for cover]

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

latest release of GCCCMS

2009-11-28T11:07:19Z

Can someone please point me in the right direction for downloading the latest release of GCCCMS (GCC for the VM/CMS environment) and it's accompanying runtime library (preferably one using native CMS interfaces and not the OS macro simulation one).

Many thanks.

DJ

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-28T08:37:08Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dave McGuire wrote:

> On Nov 27, 2009, at 3:48 PM, Fish wrote:
> > Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times
> > > you contribute to our group, you have nearly infinite
> > > credit here.
> >
> > Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W?
> > (as in Dave Wade?)
>
> Awww damn! ;)
>
> -Dave

Boy I sure am glad you're being such a good sport about all this Dave,
because apparently I was wrong: Greg *did* mean you!

Please accept my *sincerest* of apologies for my faux pas. :(

p.s. Please forgive me for asking Dave, but I must have been out of the loop
for too long: what the heck did you DO to earn your "infinite credit"?
Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying you don't deserve it! No, no, no!
I'm just saying I'm not FAMILIAR with it, that's all (and I very much *do*
wish to be familiar with it to prevent such social blunders in the future).
Thanks.

(I hope I'm not embarrassing you and/or myself even further by even ASKING
that question! Please accept my apology in advance if I am!)

(Boy I'm sure doing a lot of apologizing lately! (sigh))

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
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RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-28T08:23:32Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello!
> Um no, sorry one who breathes through gills

(Heh) :)

> I definitely mean Dave M, because I know him from
> a group (or grouping) who represents an interesting
> operating system related to the fun people at UCB.

Ah. OK. My bad. I guess must have been out of the loop for too long. :(

My sincere apologies to both Dave M. and Dave W and to you and the rest of
the group as well.

<snip>

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
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RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-28T00:16:57Z

I think he meant a TeleVideo Personal Terminal (Or perhaps a pT100 which is,
as far as I can tell the same hardware but with different software that does
"ansi" terminal codes).

Dave
G4UGM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@...
> [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf Of Gregg C Levine
> Sent: 28 November 2009 02:41
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: RE: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
>
>
> Hello!
> What? A Sun UltraSPARC system? I have here perked on top of
> an S100 box who will be restoring RSN a US5 who runs Solaris
> 10 and is currently sleeping.
>
> --
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
> "The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On
> > Behalf
> Of
> > jimge
> > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 5:03 PM
> > To: H390-VM@...
> > Subject: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
> >
> > I thought I was the only one that had one of those in my garage! :)
> >
> > Are you implying there's software out there that can
> translate a 3270
> > data
> stream from
> > Hercules to a normal RS-232 connected terminal? If so, can
> you provide
> > a
> pointer? I'd love
> > to have VM running on an old-fashioned glass CRT, even if
> it's not the
> 3178-C I grew up
> > with.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > --- In H390-VM@..., Dave Wade <g4ugm@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Fish wrote:
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > > Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [...]
> > > >> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you
> contribute
> > > >> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
> > > >
> > > > Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean
> Dave W? (as
> > > > in
> Dave
> > > > Wade?)
> > > >
> > >
> > > I only get in because I obviously have a sad life and
> don't do much
> > > real work!. Anyway just to check every thing works I fired up my
> > > SparcUltra60 which I got courtesy of Andy Norrie (Hope you are
> > > feeling a bit better, Andy not seen you on here for a
> while) who has
> > > done lots of work for us. Then I switched on my TeleVideo
> Personal
> > > Terminal:-
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fC4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA53&ots=6NP6giJHy
> > J&dq
> >
> =televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q=tel
> evideo%20%2
> > 2personal%20Terminal%22&f=false
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/tvptvm370
> > >
> > > (isn't it swish) and after re-setting the config in the
> TeleVideo (I
> > > think it used NVRam which has died) it works fine onto
> VM. I can use
> > > C3270 and get a 3270 session, or vanilla TELNET and get a
> "normal"
> > > line mode session. I'll try and post some pictures next
> week if any
> > > one is interested.
> > >
> > >
> > > > - --
> > > > "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
> > > > Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> > > > 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> > > > http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
> > > > PGP key fingerprints:
> > >
> > > Dave
> > > G4UGM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T18:40:46Z

Hello!
Um no, sorry one who breathes through gills I definitely mean Dave M,
because I know him from a group (or grouping) who represents an interesting
operating system related to the fun people at UCB.

Besides, Dave Wade and I have an interesting discussion running in the
(virtual) conference room on a related subject. (Some of which earlier in
this thread he's already described.)
--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf
Of

> Fish
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:49 PM
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: RE: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Gregg C Levine wrote:
>
> [...]
> > Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
> > to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
>
> Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as in Dave
> Wade?)
>
> - --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T18:40:46Z

Hello!
What? A Sun UltraSPARC system? I have here perked on top of an S100 box who
will be restoring RSN a US5 who runs Solaris 10 and is currently sleeping.

--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf
Of
> jimge
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 5:03 PM
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
>
> I thought I was the only one that had one of those in my garage! :)
>
> Are you implying there's software out there that can translate a 3270 data
stream from
> Hercules to a normal RS-232 connected terminal? If so, can you provide a
pointer? I'd love
> to have VM running on an old-fashioned glass CRT, even if it's not the
3178-C I grew up

> with.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> --- In H390-VM@..., Dave Wade <g4ugm@...> wrote:
> >
> > Fish wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
> > >> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
> > >
> > > Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as in

Dave

> > > Wade?)
> > >
> >
> > I only get in because I obviously have a sad life and don't do much real
> > work!. Anyway just to check every thing works I fired up my
> > SparcUltra60 which I got courtesy of Andy Norrie (Hope you are feeling a
> > bit better, Andy not seen you on here for a while) who has done lots of
> > work for us. Then I switched on my TeleVideo Personal Terminal:-
> >
> >
> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fC4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA53&ots=6NP6giJHyJ&dq
> =televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q=televideo%20%2
> 2personal%20Terminal%22&f=false
> >
> > or
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/tvptvm370
> >
> > (isn't it swish) and after re-setting the config in the TeleVideo (I
> > think it used NVRam which has died) it works fine onto VM. I can use
> > C3270 and get a 3270 session, or vanilla TELNET and get a "normal" line
> > mode session. I'll try and post some pictures next week if any one is
> > interested.
> >
> >
> > > - --
> > > "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
> > > Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> > > 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> > > http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
> > > PGP key fingerprints:
> >
> > Dave
> > G4UGM

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T14:35:11Z

jimge wrote:
> I thought I was the only one that had one of those in my garage! :)
>
> Are you implying there's software out there that can translate a 3270 data stream from Hercules to a normal RS-232 connected terminal? If so, can you provide a pointer? I'd love to have VM running on an old-fashioned glass CRT, even if it's not the 3178-C I grew up with.
>

I thought I was stating, not implying. Any way to confirm I have :-

1. A TeleVideo Personal Terminal with RS232 null modem lead connected to..
2. A Sun Sparc Station Ultra60 running Solaris 9
3. I have a "terminfo" file set up for the terminal.
4. I login to a normal shell on the Sparc station from the terminal.
5. I can use C3270 to get a 3270 session on Hercules running on a
Windows box.

I would expect to be able to substitute an Intel PC running Linux,
Free/OpenBSD or Solarus/X86 for the SPARC station.

I would expect to be able to substitute any reasonably capable 24x80
"dumb terminal" for the TeleVideo terminal. You may need to tweak the
C3270 settings and/or the termcap file to get usable PF keys.

You could run Hercules on the "Unix" host, its just its a bit slow on
the U60. I do sometimes run it on there for that authentic VM/370 on
4331 running a PROFS demo for a class of 20 feeling....

There are also other TN3270 programs that would work. I choose C3270
because it was already on the Sparc as part of the X3270 package.

If you really have a TeleVideo Personal Terminal (the models one that
did TeleVideo type commands, not the PT102 that did VT102) I can send
you my TermInfo entry ...

Dave
G4UGM

P.S. I also have a SparcStation 20 if I want the "building VM second
level on a systems programming course where the 4331 is shared with
several courses as well experience ...

> Thanks!!
>
> --- In H390-VM@..., Dave Wade <g4ugm@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Fish wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Gregg C Levine wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
>>>> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
>>> Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as in Dave
>>> Wade?)
>>>
>> I only get in because I obviously have a sad life and don't do much real
>> work!. Anyway just to check every thing works I fired up my
>> SparcUltra60 which I got courtesy of Andy Norrie (Hope you are feeling a
>> bit better, Andy not seen you on here for a while) who has done lots of
>> work for us. Then I switched on my TeleVideo Personal Terminal:-
>>
>> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fC4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA53&ots=6NP6giJHyJ&dq=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&f=false
>>
>> or
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/tvptvm370
>>
>> (isn't it swish) and after re-setting the config in the TeleVideo (I
>> think it used NVRam which has died) it works fine onto VM. I can use
>> C3270 and get a 3270 session, or vanilla TELNET and get a "normal" line
>> mode session. I'll try and post some pictures next week if any one is
>> interested.
>>
>>
>>> - --
>>> "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
>>> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
>>> 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
>>> http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
>>> PGP key fingerprints:
>>> DH/DSS: 9F9B BAB0 BA7F C458 1A89 FE26 48F5 D7F4 C4EE 3E2A
>>> RSA: 6B37 7110 7201 9917 9B0D 99E3 55DB 5D58 FADE 4A52
>>>
>> Dave
>> G4UGM
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T14:03:01Z

I thought I was the only one that had one of those in my garage! :)

Are you implying there's software out there that can translate a 3270 data stream from Hercules to a normal RS-232 connected terminal? If so, can you provide a pointer? I'd love to have VM running on an old-fashioned glass CRT, even if it's not the 3178-C I grew up with.

Thanks!!

--- In H390-VM@..., Dave Wade <g4ugm@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Fish wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Gregg C Levine wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
> >> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
> >
> > Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as in Dave
> > Wade?)
> >
>
> I only get in because I obviously have a sad life and don't do much real
> work!. Anyway just to check every thing works I fired up my
> SparcUltra60 which I got courtesy of Andy Norrie (Hope you are feeling a
> bit better, Andy not seen you on here for a while) who has done lots of
> work for us. Then I switched on my TeleVideo Personal Terminal:-
>
> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fC4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA53&ots=6NP6giJHyJ&dq=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&f=false
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/tvptvm370
>
> (isn't it swish) and after re-setting the config in the TeleVideo (I
> think it used NVRam which has died) it works fine onto VM. I can use
> C3270 and get a 3270 session, or vanilla TELNET and get a "normal" line
> mode session. I'll try and post some pictures next week if any one is
> interested.
>
>
> > - --
> > "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
> > Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> > 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> > http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
> > PGP key fingerprints:
> > DH/DSS: 9F9B BAB0 BA7F C458 1A89 FE26 48F5 D7F4 C4EE 3E2A
> > RSA: 6B37 7110 7201 9917 9B0D 99E3 55DB 5D58 FADE 4A52
> >
>
> Dave
> G4UGM
>

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T13:41:33Z

Fish wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Gregg C Levine wrote:
>
> [...]
>> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
>> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
>
> Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as in Dave
> Wade?)
>

I only get in because I obviously have a sad life and don't do much real
work!. Anyway just to check every thing works I fired up my
SparcUltra60 which I got courtesy of Andy Norrie (Hope you are feeling a
bit better, Andy not seen you on here for a while) who has done lots of
work for us. Then I switched on my TeleVideo Personal Terminal:-

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fC4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA53&ots=6NP6giJHyJ&dq=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q=televideo%20%22personal%20Terminal%22&f=false

or

http://tinyurl.com/tvptvm370

(isn't it swish) and after re-setting the config in the TeleVideo (I
think it used NVRam which has died) it works fine onto VM. I can use
C3270 and get a 3270 session, or vanilla TELNET and get a "normal" line
mode session. I'll try and post some pictures next week if any one is
interested.

> - --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
> PGP key fingerprints:
> DH/DSS: 9F9B BAB0 BA7F C458 1A89 FE26 48F5 D7F4 C4EE 3E2A
> RSA: 6B37 7110 7201 9917 9B0D 99E3 55DB 5D58 FADE 4A52
>

Dave
G4UGM

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T12:51:31Z

On Nov 27, 2009, at 3:48 PM, Fish wrote:
> [...]
>> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
>> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
>
> Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as
> in Dave
> Wade?)

Awww damn! ;)

-Dave
>

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T12:48:40Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gregg C Levine wrote:

[...]
> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute
> to our group, you have nearly infinite credit here.

Not to pop Dave McGuire's balloon, but don't you mean Dave W? (as in Dave
Wade?)

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
PGP key fingerprints:
DH/DSS: 9F9B BAB0 BA7F C458 1A89 FE26 48F5 D7F4 C4EE 3E2A
RSA: 6B37 7110 7201 9917 9B0D 99E3 55DB 5D58 FADE 4A52

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Desktop 9.8.0 (Build 2158)
Charset: us-ascii

wj8DBQFLEDszSPXX9MTuPioRAh19AJ9sKbf8b3fhDGqQI7kR/fwEZTfwHwCdF/Ts
22TddjJJ9qSu21lyDmJMBxo=
=Qsrw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T09:57:18Z

You are right, it is different in ESA2.4, it's a normal module build, which
is why fewer SIO's but again a limited subset of instructions.

Dave
G4UGM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@...
> [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf Of paoloG
> Sent: 27 November 2009 09:12
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In H390-VM@..., "Dave Wade" <g4ugm@...> wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: H390-VM@...
> > > [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf Of paoloG
> > > Sent: 26 November 2009 18:08
> > > To: H390-VM@...
> > > Subject: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
>
> > >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > have you any figures about P/390 MIPS? I read it was
> about 7.5 MIPS.
> > > I suppose you have VM/ESA 2.40 ADCD (there was a specific
> > > P/390 version); in this case could you test the time required
> > > to build CP nucleus? ( it looks a CPU bound task)
> >
> > I think it uses a very small subset of the instructions, so
> isn't a >
> > great measure of the performance you will get under typical
> > workkloads. Building a Nucleus was always slow because it
> punches a > card at a time to the spool, then the n-card
> loader reads a card at > a time back in again. Then it writes
> the image back to disk.
> >
>
> Dave,
>
> I'm not a great expert in VM/ESA as my *real* job in VM field
> ended in 1986, but I noticed that while building VM/370
> nucleus is a 2 step procedure (punch IPLable deck - IPL
> deck), in VM/ESA 2.4 nucleus is built directly as a module.
> There's a great difference in path length: in VM/370 building
> nucleus (only building deck to tell the truth) is about 20 MI
> (million instructions), while in VM/ESA path length is of
> about 3,360 MI. Furthermore in VM/370 SIOS counter is very
> high, while in VM/ESA is very low and awfully near to 0;
> which made me believe it was a CPU bound task...
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T08:55:23Z

On Nov 27, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:

>
> Would that be Mike Ross? If so, that machine is an S/390
> Integrated Server 3006...basically a PC in a VERY large box with SSA
> bays, hosting a P390E card. (at least I think it's a P390E, it might
> be a straight P390)
>
> I recently did some research on that model when trying
> (desperately, and still unsuccessfully) to find some SSA drive
> canisters for my Multiprise 3000. This machine uses the same basic
> chassis design as the IS3006, including the SSA canisters, but is an
> S/390 G5 under the hood. It looks identical from the outside but
> weighs close to 500lbs!

Yeah, the IS is a P390E. I seem to recall it was somewhere in that weight range too. Certainly big enough that getting it up the stairs into my house required three people.

It was on loan from IBM; I don't have it anymore.

Adam

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T08:52:33Z

On Nov 26, 2009, at 11:40 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Perhaps yours is. However the fellow I saw which belongs to an
> individual I
> know from other activities, was the size of a good sized human, it
> weighed
> in at 85KG, about 170Pounds. It was also about the height of R2D2
> or he
> stood at one meter. (Call it 3 FT 3 and 3 quarters inches.)
>
> To be honest I didn't know how he got into his apartment let alone
> install
> it in the room it worked in.

Ahh, that's nothin'! ;) Last week I moved a z890 into my
garage...THAT is a big box. It's sitting right next to the
Crays...my garage has a pretty strong gravitational field now. If
all goes according to plan, my employer will have some datacenter
space down here very soon, and I'll be able to move some of my bigger
iron in there. They've graciously allowed me to put (and run) pretty
much any machines I want in there. My boss just wants accounts on
them. :)

> Currently he's using it to actually serve webpages for his site and
> all
> sorts of strange stuff.
>
> I still can’t remember who he is, but searching the regular
> Hercules pages
> for the problems of running Hercules on a multiple Intel processor
> pages
> box....

Would that be Mike Ross? If so, that machine is an S/390
Integrated Server 3006...basically a PC in a VERY large box with SSA
bays, hosting a P390E card. (at least I think it's a P390E, it might
be a straight P390)

I recently did some research on that model when trying
(desperately, and still unsuccessfully) to find some SSA drive
canisters for my Multiprise 3000. This machine uses the same basic
chassis design as the IS3006, including the SSA canisters, but is an
S/390 G5 under the hood. It looks identical from the outside but
weighs close to 500lbs!

> Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute to our
> group, you have nearly infinite credit here.

Umm...wow, I don't know what I did to deserve that honor, but
thank you!

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

------------------------------------

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Re: Need help badly

2009-11-27T01:11:51Z

--- In H390-VM@..., "Dave Wade" <g4ugm@...> wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: H390-VM@...
> > [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf Of paoloG
> > Sent: 26 November 2009 18:08
> > To: H390-VM@...
> > Subject: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly

> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > have you any figures about P/390 MIPS? I read it was about 7.5
> > MIPS.
> > I suppose you have VM/ESA 2.40 ADCD (there was a specific
> > P/390 version); in this case could you test the time required
> > to build CP nucleus? ( it looks a CPU bound task)
>
> I think it uses a very small subset of the instructions, so isn't a > great measure of the performance you will get under typical
> workkloads. Building a Nucleus was always slow because it punches a > card at a time to the spool, then the n-card loader reads a card at > a time back in again. Then it writes the image back to disk.
>

Dave,

I'm not a great expert in VM/ESA as my *real* job in VM field ended in 1986, but I noticed that while building VM/370 nucleus is a 2 step procedure (punch IPLable deck - IPL deck), in VM/ESA 2.4 nucleus is built directly as a module.
There's a great difference in path length: in VM/370 building nucleus (only building deck to tell the truth) is about 20 MI (million instructions), while in VM/ESA path length is of about 3,360 MI.
Furthermore in VM/370 SIOS counter is very high, while in VM/ESA is very low and awfully near to 0; which made me believe it was a CPU bound task...

Regards

Paul

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-26T20:40:45Z

Hello!
Perhaps yours is. However the fellow I saw which belongs to an individual I
know from other activities, was the size of a good sized human, it weighed
in at 85KG, about 170Pounds. It was also about the height of R2D2 or he
stood at one meter. (Call it 3 FT 3 and 3 quarters inches.)

To be honest I didn't know how he got into his apartment let alone install
it in the room it worked in.

Currently he's using it to actually serve webpages for his site and all
sorts of strange stuff.

I still cant remember who he is, but searching the regular Hercules pages
for the problems of running Hercules on a multiple Intel processor pages
box....

Also remember that were some business who did all of their work on a P390E
or even a regular P390.

Incidentally gang this discussion is being given free reign to continue
until one or all of us are either bored or we need to discuss actual issues
related our examples of VM.

Incidentally Dave M, I don't mind how many times you contribute to our
group, you have nearly infinite credit here.
--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf
Of

> Dave McGuire
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 5:26 PM
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
>
> On Nov 25, 2009, at 5:19 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > Remember there was also the R390 a big fellow who was a P390 installed
> > inside a RS6000 based system.
>
> Sometimes not so big...I'm running a P390 card in the R390
> configuration, installed in a tiny-but-quick RS/6000 model 397. I've
> also just gotten ahold of an H70 and hope to run a PCI P390 card in
> it. That's a much bigger box...can barely move it by myself.
>
> I'm primarily a UNIX guy, so supporting P390 cards with AIX is
> much more comfortable for me than OS/2. If it were documented a bit
> better I'd write Solaris drivers!
>
> -Dave
> ...back to lurking now :)
>
> --
> Dave McGuire
> Port Charlotte, FL

Re: Need help badly

2009-11-26T12:04:58Z

--- In H390-VM@..., "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@...> wrote:
>
> Hello!
> For what I do and for that matter what I want to do, the ideas behind the zPDT are indeed meaningful. However PWD is still having a field day sorting out the ideas behind everything.
>
I must admit that zPDT idea is alluring; if people could buy it without all PWD and ISV limitations (let's say for development, hobby and self-instruction purposes) I'd be tempted to shell about 5,000 bucks to IBM for getting the emulator with z/OS, z/VSE and z/VM.

> However the later models and indeed the few final ones of the P390 families did get awfully close to the 18MIP range that Funsoft insisted they could surmount.
>
I found and interesting documents of 1999 at http://www.bsiopti.com/flex-es.htm
P/390E was slightly outperformed by FLEX-ES running on Pentium II 400 MHz; so I can guess that with a modern processor FLEX-ES (and Hercules as well) can outperform P/390E of 10-20 times.
Yet I must admit that real hardware is more satisfying then emulated hardware; even my old AT/370 (that died (alas)last year) gave me a different sensation than Hercules...

>
> Besides Paul you are not boring me, it is fun to actually respond to these posts.
>

So now I'm trying to give you some more fun ;-)

Regards.

Paul

RE: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-26T11:48:43Z

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@...
> [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf Of paoloG
> Sent: 26 November 2009 18:08
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: [H390-VM] Re: Need help badly
> --- In H390-VM@..., Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes not so big...I'm running a P390 card in the R390
> > configuration, installed in a tiny-but-quick RS/6000 model
> 397. I've
> > also just gotten ahold of an H70 and hope to run a PCI P390
> card in
> > it. That's a much bigger box...can barely move it by myself.
> >
> > I'm primarily a UNIX guy, so supporting P390 cards with AIX is
> > much more comfortable for me than OS/2. If it were
> documented a bit
> > better I'd write Solaris drivers!
> >
> > -Dave
> > ...back to lurking now :)
> >
> > --
> > Dave McGuire
> > Port Charlotte, FL
> >
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> have you any figures about P/390 MIPS? I read it was about 7.5 MIPS.
> I suppose you have VM/ESA 2.40 ADCD (there was a specific
> P/390 version); in this case could you test the time required
> to build CP nucleus? ( it looks a CPU bound task)

I think it uses a very small subset of the instructions, so isn't a great
measure of the performance you will get under typical workloads. Building a
Nucleus was always slow because it punches a card at a time to the spool,
then the n-card loader reads a card at a time back in again. Then it writes
the image back to disk.

> I'm not allowed to run VM/ESA on Hercules, but a few months
> ago I configured a disaster recovery machine (for a friend of
> mine) with a Core 2 DUO at 2.8 GHz, and I could build the
> nucleus in 60" at an average CPU speed of 55.8 MIPS.

If you want to compare I understand that the P390 will run 370 code, so you
could use VM/370 but you need the patch for 4k Keys.

> After I did the job I never ran again VM/ESA on Hercules as
> I'm afraid that men in dark suit may knock at my door in
> nightly hours (frightening my wife too) and take me to jail ;-)
>

I used to worry about the Radio Inspectorate but these days I seldom
transmit...

> Regards.
>
> Paul
>

Dave
G4UGM

Re: Need help badly

2009-11-26T11:22:58Z

--- In H390-VM@..., "paoloG" <crc@...> wrote:
>
> After I did the job I never ran again VM/ESA on Hercules
> as I'm afraid that men in dark suit may knock at my door
> in nightly hours (frightening my wife too)

I have that problem too, but they're normally wearing
white coats.

> and take me to jail ;-)

Luxury! ref: The Four Yorkshiremen.

BFN. Paul.

Re: Need help badly

2009-11-26T11:22:11Z

--- In H390-VM@..., Adam Thornton <adam@...> wrote:

>
>
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 12:08 PM, paoloG wrote:
> > have you any figures about P/390 MIPS? I read it was about 7.5 MIPS.
> >
> >
>
> IIRC, P/390 was about 4 and P/390E was about 7.5?
>
> Adam
>

Adam,

yes, 4 and 7.5 MIPS are the figures I found looking around.

Regards.

Paul

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-26T11:18:35Z

On Nov 26, 2009, at 12:08 PM, paoloG wrote:
> have you any figures about P/390 MIPS? I read it was about 7.5 MIPS.
>
>

IIRC, P/390 was about 4 and P/390E was about 7.5?

Adam

Re: Need help badly

2009-11-26T10:08:03Z

--- In H390-VM@..., Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:

> Sometimes not so big...I'm running a P390 card in the R390
> configuration, installed in a tiny-but-quick RS/6000 model 397. I've
> also just gotten ahold of an H70 and hope to run a PCI P390 card in
> it. That's a much bigger box...can barely move it by myself.
>
> I'm primarily a UNIX guy, so supporting P390 cards with AIX is
> much more comfortable for me than OS/2. If it were documented a bit
> better I'd write Solaris drivers!
>
> -Dave
> ...back to lurking now :)
>
> --
> Dave McGuire
> Port Charlotte, FL
>

Hi Dave,

have you any figures about P/390 MIPS? I read it was about 7.5 MIPS.
I suppose you have VM/ESA 2.40 ADCD (there was a specific P/390 version); in this case could you test the time required to build CP nucleus? ( it looks a CPU bound task)
I'm not allowed to run VM/ESA on Hercules, but a few months ago I configured a disaster recovery machine (for a friend of mine) with a Core 2 DUO at 2.8 GHz, and I could build the nucleus in 60" at an average CPU speed of 55.8 MIPS.
After I did the job I never ran again VM/ESA on Hercules as I'm afraid that men in dark suit may knock at my door in nightly hours (frightening my wife too) and take me to jail ;-)

Regards.

Paul

Re: Re: Need help badly

2009-11-25T14:25:39Z

On Nov 25, 2009, at 5:19 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Remember there was also the R390 a big fellow who was a P390 installed
> inside a RS6000 based system.

Sometimes not so big...I'm running a P390 card in the R390
configuration, installed in a tiny-but-quick RS/6000 model 397. I've
also just gotten ahold of an H70 and hope to run a PCI P390 card in
it. That's a much bigger box...can barely move it by myself.

I'm primarily a UNIX guy, so supporting P390 cards with AIX is
much more comfortable for me than OS/2. If it were documented a bit
better I'd write Solaris drivers!

-Dave
...back to lurking now :)

--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL