Hercwin64

[Roger Bowler]

If anybody is interested in trying Hercules on 64-bit windows, you should
now find that the current cvs is able to compile a 64-bit executable. See
the README.WIN64 file in the current cvs for some hints on how to build it.

I'd be interested to hear feedback from anyone who tries it.

For those fortunate enough to be endowed with large amounts of RAM (4GB or
more), I would particularly like to hear how high you manage to set the
MAINSIZE parameter. One of the hoped-for benefits of win64 is to be able to
break through the limitation on main storage size which currently stands at
around 1GB (or even less) for 32-bit Windows.

--
Cordialement,
Roger Bowler
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rbowler
Hercules "the people's mainframe"

[herckalope]

I would be happy to try it out... but the file isn't there. Not in the source snap on the day it says it was added (Feb 9), nor in the latest (Feb 23).

README.COMMADPT
README.CVS
README.ECPSVM
README.HAO
README.HDL
README.HERCLOGO
README.ISSUES
README.MINGW
README.MSVC
README.NETWORKING
README.OSX
README.TAPE
README.NOTES

Sooooo...

J

Roger Bowler wrote:

If anybody is interested in trying Hercules on 64-bit windows, you should
now find that the current cvs is able to compile a 64-bit executable. See
the README.WIN64 file in the current cvs for some hints on how to build it.

I'd be interested to hear feedback from anyone who tries it.

For those fortunate enough to be endowed with large amounts of RAM (4GB or
more), I would particularly like to hear how high you manage to set the
MAINSIZE parameter. One of the hoped-for benefits of win64 is to be able to
break through the limitation on main storage size which currently stands at
around 1GB (or even less) for 32-bit Windows.

--
Cordialement,
Roger Bowler
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rbowler
Hercules "the people's mainframe"

[Toine-3]

Hello Roger,

I'm currently setting up a new desktop with 8 GB storage. At the moment under Vista 64 bit. The windows GUI does not allow me to specify more than 2GB. Will try again as soon as I have a Linux distro installed.

Regards,

--- In hercules-390@..., Roger Bowler <rogerbowler@...> wrote:

>
> If anybody is interested in trying Hercules on 64-bit windows, you should
> now find that the current cvs is able to compile a 64-bit executable. See
> the README.WIN64 file in the current cvs for some hints on how to build it.
>
> I'd be interested to hear feedback from anyone who tries it.
>
> For those fortunate enough to be endowed with large amounts of RAM (4GB or
> more), I would particularly like to hear how high you manage to set the
> MAINSIZE parameter. One of the hoped-for benefits of win64 is to be able to
> break through the limitation on main storage size which currently stands at
> around 1GB (or even less) for 32-bit Windows.
>
> --
> Cordialement,
> Roger Bowler
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rbowler
> Hercules "the people's mainframe"
>

[fish-8]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Toine wrote:

> Hello Roger,
>
> I'm currently setting up a new desktop with 8 GB storage.
> At the moment under Vista 64 bit. The windows GUI does not
> allow me to specify more than 2GB.

Increase you "MaxMainMem" value:

http://www.softdevlabs.com/Hercules/hercgui-readme.html#tweaks


Copy the following lines into notepad, and save it with a .reg file
extension (e.g. "MaxMainMem.reg"):


REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Software Development
Laboratories\Hercules\Limits]
"MaxMainMem"=dword:003d0900


Then double-click on it (or right-click and select 'Merge') to update your
HercGUI limits.


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[Toine-3]

Hi Fish,

Many thanks.... Missed that completely.

Best regards,
Toine Michielse

--- In hercules-390@..., "Fish" <fish@...> wrote:

>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Toine wrote:
>
> > Hello Roger,
> >
> > I'm currently setting up a new desktop with 8 GB storage.
> > At the moment under Vista 64 bit. The windows GUI does not
> > allow me to specify more than 2GB.
>
> Increase you "MaxMainMem" value:
>
> http://www.softdevlabs.com/Hercules/hercgui-readme.html#tweaks
>
>
> Copy the following lines into notepad, and save it with a .reg file
> extension (e.g. "MaxMainMem.reg"):
>
>
> REGEDIT4
>
> [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Software Development
> Laboratories\Hercules\Limits]
> "MaxMainMem"=dword:003d0900
>
>
> Then double-click on it (or right-click and select 'Merge') to update your
> HercGUI limits.
>
>
> - --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
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>
>
>
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Charset: us-ascii
>
> wj8DBQFK2DJzSPXX9MTuPioRAgMTAKDDYQJTTnTjPI2i1nxMUEWMMi4JDwCgqu8i
> brMGD8C1M5yFOvHzHOGDjCo=
> =8Rpo
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>

[beaulieumichel]

Hello,

I have a test Windows Server 2008 R2 64 bit (2GB RAM with large pagefile!), specially for that purpose.

My next step is to download the Visual C++ express 2008,
then build hercules and try this.

I will let you know of my progress.

Cordialement,  

Michel Beaulieu
e-mail: beaulieumichel@...

--- In hercules-390@..., Roger Bowler <rogerbowler@...> wrote:

>
> If anybody is interested in trying Hercules on 64-bit windows, you should
> now find that the current cvs is able to compile a 64-bit executable. See
> the README.WIN64 file in the current cvs for some hints on how to build it.
>
> I'd be interested to hear feedback from anyone who tries it.
>
> For those fortunate enough to be endowed with large amounts of RAM (4GB or
> more), I would particularly like to hear how high you manage to set the
> MAINSIZE parameter. One of the hoped-for benefits of win64 is to be able to
> break through the limitation on main storage size which currently stands at
> around 1GB (or even less) for 32-bit Windows.
>
> --
> Cordialement,
> Roger Bowler
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rbowler
> Hercules "the people's mainframe"
>

[fish-8]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

beaulieumichel wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a test Windows Server 2008 R2 64 bit (2GB RAM with
> large pagefile!), specially for that purpose.

Even WITH a large pagefile, with only 2GB of RAM you will likely suffer
horrible performance if you try running Hercules with a MAINSIZE value
larger than about 1.25GB. This is because Windows itself needs 0.75-1.0GB
for itself, leaving you only 1.25-1.0GB for Hercules before Windows begins
paging.

For larger MAINSIZE values you really should have *much* more RAM (4-8GB for
example). Then you could probably run Hercules with a MAINSIZE of 3-7GB with
acceptable performance.

Keep in mind too, that what we're mostly interested in knowing is whether or
not Hercules works okay with MAINSIZE values greater than the 32-bit maximum
of 4GB. What we NEED is someone to test the Windows x64 version of Hercules
with a MAINSIZE value larger than 4GB (e.g. 5-8GB for example).


> My next step is to download the Visual C++ express 2008,
> then build Hercules and try this.
>
> I will let you know of my progress.

PLEASE NOTE that you do NOT actually need to build Hercules for yourself
(unless you really WANT to of course!). Using any of the W64 snapshots
should be good enough:

  http://www.ivansoftware.com/snapshots/snapshots/

Just make sure you have the latest Microsoft VC++ redistributables installed
beforehand:

  http://tinyurl.com/nnzjyn


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[Volker Bandke]

Salmo Trutta (aka Fish) wrote:
> Keep in mind too, that what we're mostly interested in knowing is whether or
> not Hercules works okay with MAINSIZE values greater than the 32-bit maximum
> of 4GB. What we NEED is someone to test the Windows x64 version of Hercules
> with a MAINSIZE value larger than 4GB (e.g. 5-8GB for example).
>

For the record:

There is good news, and there is bad news.

The good news:
I have compiled Hercules from latest SVN.  I then run it on an 8GB RAM
dual Windows XP64 machine.  I had mainsize 5120 and NUMCPU 2 in the
hercules.conf.

Everything works.

The bad news:
If I set NUMCPU to 3 or higher, outward Pinging from the Hercules guest
OS to the outside world does not work, and times out.

The same thing happens if I leave NUMCPU at 2, and increase MAINSIZE to,
e.g. 6400.  Outwards pinging times out.  The rest of the guest OS seems
to be running purrrfectly


I have no way of disabling checksum offloding, neither inwards nor
outwards. The device drivers for the two network cards in the system
don't have that option.

....


--


      With kind Regards            |\      _,,,---,,_
                             ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,
      Volker Bandke               |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
       (BSP GmbH)                '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)

       When it is incorrect, it is, at least *authoritatively*
incorrect. -- Hitchiker's Guide To The Galaxy

         (Another Wisdom from my fortune cookie jar)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[fish-8]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Volker Bandke wrote:

[...]

> For the record:
>
> There is good news, and there is bad news.
>
> The good news:
> I have compiled Hercules from latest SVN.  I then run it on
> an 8GB RAM dual Windows XP64 machine.  I had mainsize 5120
> and NUMCPU 2 in the hercules.conf.
>
> Everything works.

Great!


> The bad news:
> If I set NUMCPU to 3 or higher, outward Pinging from the
> Hercules guest OS to the outside world does not work, and
> times out.

(Urk!)  That's not good.  :(


> The same thing happens if I leave NUMCPU at 2, and increase
> MAINSIZE to, e.g. 6400.  Outwards pinging times out.  The
> rest of the guest OS seems to be running purrrfectly

Wow. That is odd.

Why should the number of CPUs or the size of MAINSIZE affect networking?

That is VERY odd.  :(


> I have no way of disabling checksum offloding, neither inwards
> nor outwards. The device drivers for the two network cards in
> the system don't have that option.

I presume you're using the latest CTCI-WIN (version 3.2.1), correct?

What version of WinPCap are you using? The latest? (version 4.1.1?)

And what type of guest o/s are we talking about too? Is this MVS 3.8j with
Jason Winter's TCP/IP module? Or is a (ahem) "more modern MVS"? (to put
things delicately)

In the mean time let me begin looking into things to see if I can find
anything obvious that might explain such unusual behavior (but don't hold
your breath).

Thanks for the report Volker. Much appreciated.

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[beaulieumichel]

Thanks for the information!

Performance is not my major concern at this point.
As long as I can have a clean IPL, I will be happy.

a) I downloaded and installed VC2008 Express
on my Windows Server 2008 R2 (64 bit)
I can open the solution,
select configution: release
select platform: x64
and request Build.
All I get is the following:
------ Skipped Build: Project: Hercules ------
= Build: 0 succeeded or up-to-date, 0 failed, 1 skipped =
 
b) I tried the batch file approach:

Started a command prompt: Visual Studio 2008 Command Prompt
changed to my directory where the Hercules SVN Trunk was downloaded:
command entered:

   makefile.bat RETAIL-X64 makefile.msvc 32 -a

I have an error in nmake: fatal error U1077

See details below:
... clip clip ... (initial part of makefile.bat removed...

C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>if /I "AMD64" == "AMD64" set host_arch=amd64
C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>if /I "AMD64" == "IA64" set host_arch=ia64
C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>if /I not "amd64" == "amd64" goto :cross
C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>set host_arch=
C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>if exist "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.
0\Common7\Tools\..\..\VC\bin\vcvars32.bat" goto :EOF
C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>if 0 NEQ 0 exit /b 1
C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>setlocal
C:\@devt\HerculesSVN>call "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\Co
mmon7\Tools\..\..\VC\vcvarsall.bat"  amd64
The specified configuration type is missing.  The tools for the
configuration might not be installed.
Makefile will assume VS9 or VS2008Express (MSVC version 15)
Target processor type is AMD64

VERSION = \"3.06.0.13\" (3.06.0.13)
CUSTOM_BUILD_STRING = "Michel Beaulieu"

ZLIB support will not be generated
BZIP2 support will not be generated
PCRE support will not be generated
cl : Command line warning D9002 : ignoring unknown option '/favor:AMD64'
build_pch.c
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\INCLUDE\string.h(81) : err
or C2220: warning treated as error - no 'object' file generated
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\INCLUDE\string.h(81) : war
ning C4391: 'size_t strlen(const char *)' : incorrect return type for intrinsic
function, expected 'unsigned int'
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\INCLUDE\string.h(254) : wa
rning C4391: 'size_t wcslen(const wchar_t *)' : incorrect return type for intrin
sic function, expected 'unsigned int'
NMAKE : fatal error U1077: '"C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\
VC\BIN\cl.EXE"' : return code '0x2'
Stop.

= = = = = = = = = = = =
Thanks for your help.

Michel
--- In hercules-390@..., "Fish" <fish@...> wrote:

>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> beaulieumichel wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have a test Windows Server 2008 R2 64 bit (2GB RAM with
> > large pagefile!), specially for that purpose.
>
> Even WITH a large pagefile, with only 2GB of RAM you will likely suffer
> horrible performance if you try running Hercules with a MAINSIZE value
> larger than about 1.25GB. This is because Windows itself needs 0.75-1.0GB
> for itself, leaving you only 1.25-1.0GB for Hercules before Windows begins
> paging.
>
> For larger MAINSIZE values you really should have *much* more RAM (4-8GB for
> example). Then you could probably run Hercules with a MAINSIZE of 3-7GB with
> acceptable performance.
>
> Keep in mind too, that what we're mostly interested in knowing is whether or
> not Hercules works okay with MAINSIZE values greater than the 32-bit maximum
> of 4GB. What we NEED is someone to test the Windows x64 version of Hercules
> with a MAINSIZE value larger than 4GB (e.g. 5-8GB for example).
>
>
> > My next step is to download the Visual C++ express 2008,
> > then build Hercules and try this.
> >
> > I will let you know of my progress.
>
> PLEASE NOTE that you do NOT actually need to build Hercules for yourself
> (unless you really WANT to of course!). Using any of the W64 snapshots
> should be good enough:
>
>   http://www.ivansoftware.com/snapshots/snapshots/
>
> Just make sure you have the latest Microsoft VC++ redistributables installed
> beforehand:
>
>   http://tinyurl.com/nnzjyn
>
>
> - --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
> 7 reasons why HTML email is a bad thing
> http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
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>
>
>
>
>
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>

[laddiehanus-2]

According to the README.WIN64 file thats in SVN
Microsoft Visual Studio standard or Pro is required.
There is a pointer in that file for a 90 day evaluation version.

I get the same errors on my Vista x64 machine. I am just too cheap
to send Micro$oft more of my money and dont want to wipe out my express install with the evaluation version.

Laddie Hanus

--- In hercules-390@..., "beaulieumichel" <beaulieumichel@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks for the information!
>
> Performance is not my major concern at this point.
> As long as I can have a clean IPL, I will be happy.
>
> a) I downloaded and installed VC2008 Express
> on my Windows Server 2008 R2 (64 bit)
> I can open the solution,
> select configution: release
> select platform: x64
> and request Build.
> All I get is the following:
> ------ Skipped Build: Project: Hercules ------
> = Build: 0 succeeded or up-to-date, 0 failed, 1 skipped =
>  

[beaulieumichel]

Thanks for the quick response.

Since I am working on a throw away Windows Server Image,
I can try this with the 90 days evaluation of the Professionnal version.

I have something else to do for the next few days.
I expect to have an update by the end of the week.

regards,

Michel Beaulieu

--- In hercules-390@..., "laddiehanus" <laddiehanus@...> wrote:

>
> According to the README.WIN64 file thats in SVN
> Microsoft Visual Studio standard or Pro is required.
> There is a pointer in that file for a 90 day evaluation version.
>
> I get the same errors on my Vista x64 machine. I am just too cheap
> to send Micro$oft more of my money and dont want to wipe out my express install with the evaluation version.
>
> Laddie Hanus
>
> --- In hercules-390@..., "beaulieumichel" <beaulieumichel@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the information!
> >
> > Performance is not my major concern at this point.
> > As long as I can have a clean IPL, I will be happy.
> >
> > a) I downloaded and installed VC2008 Express
> > on my Windows Server 2008 R2 (64 bit)
> > I can open the solution,
> > select configution: release
> > select platform: x64
> > and request Build.
> > All I get is the following:
> > ------ Skipped Build: Project: Hercules ------
> > = Build: 0 succeeded or up-to-date, 0 failed, 1 skipped =
> >
>

[paoloG]

--- In hercules-390@..., "Fish" <fish@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the report Volker. Much appreciated.
>
Hi Fish,
here's another report:

Windows XP x64 with 8GB RAM

Hercules works very well with 7024 MB MAINSIZE - 4 CPU

I'm using a (ahem) somehow *more modern* version of VM/370 that IBM lets download free for evaluation purposes.. ;-)

I didn't activate TCP/IP (see Volker's error...)

Mem usage:

Prometheus.exe 7.251 MB
HercGUI64.exe     11 MB

Regards

Paul


 

[fish-8]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

beaulieumichel wrote:

> Thanks for the information!
>
> Performance is not my major concern at this point.
> As long as I can have a clean IPL, I will be happy.
<snip>

> [...] "vcvarsall.bat"  amd64
> The specified configuration type is missing.  The
> tools for the configuration might not be installed.

As Laddie Hanus has already explained, the free "Express" editions of the
Visual Studio product suite (Visual Basic 2008 Express, Visual C# 2008
Express, Visual C++ 2008 Express, etc) do not support 64-bit. The "Express"
versions only support building 32-bit.

To be able to build 64-bit executables you need to either:

a) purchase their full Visual Studio product (Standard, Professional or Team
System), or
b) download and install their latest Windows SDK (Windows SDK for Windows
Server 2008 and .NET Framework 3.5, or Microsoft Windows SDK for Windows 7
and .NET Framework 3.5 SP1) [*]

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[fish-8]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

laddiehanus wrote:

> According to the README.WIN64 file thats in SVN
> Microsoft Visual Studio standard or Pro is required.
>
> There is a pointer in that file for a 90 day evaluation
> version.

We should also support building via the Windows SDK as well. If it doesn't
work (and it may not) it's only because no one has tried it recently.

We originally only supported using their Visual C++ 2003 Toolkit, but then
added support for using their Platform SDK as well (renamed to Windows SDK).

But as I said it may not work, but only because no one has tested it
recently. It may be broken (read: *I* may have broken it).

But heck, it's worth a try. As far as I know their Windows SDK is still
free, and it *does* come with both the x64 and Itanium compilers. <shrug>


> I get the same errors on my Vista x64 machine. I am just
> too cheap to send Micro$oft more of my money and dont want
> to wipe out my express install with the evaluation version.

Try the SDK. Installing it should NOT break your existing Express
installation, but rather should *augment* it instead (i.e. provide you with
the newer headers as well as a 64-bit compiler thereby allowing you build
64-bit Hercules. For free.) [+]

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[+] Ideally you shouldn't have to do anything special either. It *should*
"just work". Hercules is designed as just a somewhat sophisticated makefile
project after all, so it *should* build just fine within Visual Studio,
regardless of whether it is the Express edition or the full Professional
edition. It shouldn't matter. As long as our (Hercules's) 'makefile.bat'
batch file can find the path to the 64-bit Windows SDK tools , you *should*
be able to build an x64 version of Hercules completely within the Express
edition IDE.




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[fish-8]

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Allow me to jump in here for a second...


beaulieumichel wrote:

> Thanks for the quick response.
>
> Since I am working on a throw away Windows Server
> Image, I can try this with the 90 days evaluation
> of the Professionnal version.
>
> I have something else to do for the next few days.
> I expect to have an update by the end of the week.

If that's what you want to do Michel, then fine, by all means have fun! :)

BUT...

I feel I should make clear (for the benefit of others as well as you) that
you DON'T have to build Hercules on a 64-bit version of Windows in order to
create a 64-bit version of Hercules. You CAN build a 64-bit version of
Hercules on your existing 32-bit version of Windows, then simply copy the
resulting binaries (executables and DLLs) over to your 64-bit Windows
system. That's called cross-compiling and we DO support that.

Just wanted to make that clear in case you or others forgot about that. :)

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
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[BruceTSmith]

Can I ask a stupid question (showing how little I "really" know about Hercules)...

Is there a "prebuilt" version of "Hercwin64"?

If not, why not?

More and more 64-bit machines are showing up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we do have "prebuilt" versions for Win32, Linux and OSX, don't we? Why not Win64?

Herc and 64 just sounds like such a natural combo to me. :)

Maybe a dumb BTS :)))

[paoloG]

--- In hercules-390@..., "BruceTSmith" <brucetsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Can I ask a stupid question (showing how little I "really" know about Hercules)...
>
> Is there a "prebuilt" version of "Hercwin64"?

Yes, you can find it at: http://www.ivansoftware.com/snapshots/snapshots/

Regards.

Paul

[CAPRON Romain]

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[sxpert]

On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 10:54 +0100, CAPRON Romain wrote:

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>
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tu t'es visiblement raté ;)