How about a release ?

[Josselin Mouette]

Hi,

sorry if the question has already been asked too much, but I’m wondering
whether we can expect a new release of rhythmbox any time soon. There
are many bugs fixed in the SVN, and the current version is not suited at
all to nautilus 2.22+.

Of course, we can use a SVN checkout, but wouldn’t it be better to have
a release?

Thanks for the great work,
--
 .''`.
: :' :      We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'       We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-        our own. Resistance is futile.


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[Jonathan Matthew-4]

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 03:28:04PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Hi,
>
> sorry if the question has already been asked too much, but I’m wondering
> whether we can expect a new release of rhythmbox any time soon. There
> are many bugs fixed in the SVN, and the current version is not suited at
> all to nautilus 2.22+.
>
> Of course, we can use a SVN checkout, but wouldn’t it be better to have
> a release?

I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.  This
will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not planning to do
much new development work on the rhythmbox project as it currently
exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review patches, but it's too
much of a dead end for me to do more than that.

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[Bastien Nocera]

On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 20:52 +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 03:28:04PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > sorry if the question has already been asked too much, but I’m wondering
> > whether we can expect a new release of rhythmbox any time soon. There
> > are many bugs fixed in the SVN, and the current version is not suited at
> > all to nautilus 2.22+.
> >
> > Of course, we can use a SVN checkout, but wouldn’t it be better to have
> > a release?
>
> I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.  This
> will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not planning to do
> much new development work on the rhythmbox project as it currently
> exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review patches, but it's too
> much of a dead end for me to do more than that.

Why is it too much of a dead-end? The feature list stacks up nicely
against other music players, and although using C might be making our
life harder in some cases, I'm not sure I see ways to replace it in many
distributions.

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[Gilles Dartiguelongue-4]

Le lundi 16 février 2009 à 11:00 +0000, Bastien Nocera a écrit :

> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 20:52 +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 03:28:04PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > sorry if the question has already been asked too much, but I’m wondering
> > > whether we can expect a new release of rhythmbox any time soon. There
> > > are many bugs fixed in the SVN, and the current version is not suited at
> > > all to nautilus 2.22+.
> > >
> > > Of course, we can use a SVN checkout, but wouldn’t it be better to have
> > > a release?
> >
> > I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.  This
> > will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not planning to do
> > much new development work on the rhythmbox project as it currently
> > exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review patches, but it's too
> > much of a dead end for me to do more than that.
>
> Why is it too much of a dead-end? The feature list stacks up nicely
> against other music players, and although using C might be making our
> life harder in some cases, I'm not sure I see ways to replace it in many
> distributions.

also, what about taking a new maintainer onboard for the module (even
more than one).

--
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[Alex Lancaster]

[...]

>> > I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.
>> This > will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not
>> planning to do > much new development work on the rhythmbox project
>> as it currently > exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review
>> patches, but it's too > much of a dead end for me to do more than
>> that.

Bastien wrote:

>> Why is it too much of a dead-end? The feature list stacks up nicely
>> against other music players, and although using C might be making
>> our life harder in some cases, I'm not sure I see ways to replace
>> it in many distributions.

>>>>> "GD" == Gilles Dartiguelongue  writes:

GD> also, what about taking a new maintainer onboard for the module
GD> (even more than one).

What happened to James Livingston?  Did he withdraw from development
permanently or was he planning to return at some point?  I never saw
an official announcement about that.

Alex
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[Jonathan Matthew-4]

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:00:36AM +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 20:52 +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote:
> >
> > I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.  This
> > will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not planning to do
> > much new development work on the rhythmbox project as it currently
> > exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review patches, but it's too
> > much of a dead end for me to do more than that.
>
> Why is it too much of a dead-end? The feature list stacks up nicely
> against other music players, and although using C might be making our
> life harder in some cases, I'm not sure I see ways to replace it in many
> distributions.

I'm not disputing that at all.  If I just saw rhythmbox as markedly
inferior to a similar project, I'd probably go and hack on that, or let
them continue as they are and find something else to do with my time.

I don't have a concise summary of the problems I have with the current
rhythmbox.  It's been building up over the last six months or so, maybe
longer.

Anyway, my main problem is that the underlying data model is too rigid
and limited:
- the set of queryable entry properties is fixed
- entry properties can't have multiple values
- albums don't exist, they're synthesized from whatever
  entries happen to match the album name
- file metadata, observed user data (play count, etc.), and user provided data
  (ratings) are all stored together when they'd be more useful separate
- the database is designed specifically to support implementation of the
  genre->artist->album browser and doesn't work so well for other
  things.
- it doesn't always make sense that sources are completely distinct from
  each other

These things are pretty much baked into every aspect of rhythmbox.
Rhythmbox is fine for what it is, but I don't think I can make it into
what I want it to be.

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[giopas]

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Jonathan Matthew <jonathan@...> wrote:

I don't have a concise summary of the problems I have with the current
rhythmbox.  It's been building up over the last six months or so, maybe
longer.

Anyway, my main problem is that the underlying data model is too rigid
and limited:
- the set of queryable entry properties is fixed
- entry properties can't have multiple values
- albums don't exist, they're synthesized from whatever
 entries happen to match the album name
- file metadata, observed user data (play count, etc.), and user provided data
 (ratings) are all stored together when they'd be more useful separate
- the database is designed specifically to support implementation of the
 genre->artist->album browser and doesn't work so well for other
 things.
- it doesn't always make sense that sources are completely distinct from
 each other

These things are pretty much baked into every aspect of rhythmbox.
Rhythmbox is fine for what it is, but I don't think I can make it into
what I want it to be.

 

It's sad to hear you saying that, Jonathan.

Rythmbox was my first linux application I falled in love, 5 years ago, and I found it the more and more complete and efficient. And its stability and ease of use have always been the key points for been the default audio player in Gnome.

Ok, maybe the used code language is now a bit too heavy and tightening comparing to other codes, but I think that there would be some more space for improvement or time to re-think about the used code - always keeping the important improvements that have been done so far.

Maybe you could call for some new maintainers and try just to handle the transition toward a new rhythmbox development line and strategy.

Anyway, thank you very much for all the time you (all) spent for us!

Keep fine,

giopas

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[Sriram Ramkrishna-3]

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 08:52:59PM +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 03:28:04PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > sorry if the question has already been asked too much, but I’m wondering
> > whether we can expect a new release of rhythmbox any time soon. There
> > are many bugs fixed in the SVN, and the current version is not suited at
> > all to nautilus 2.22+.
> >
> > Of course, we can use a SVN checkout, but wouldn’t it be better to have
> > a release?
>
> I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.  This
> will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not planning to do
> much new development work on the rhythmbox project as it currently
> exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review patches, but it's too
> much of a dead end for me to do more than that.

I can volunteer my time and help with the reviewing of the bugs/triage
that kind of thing.

sri

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[Sriram Ramkrishna-3]

This seems to be a limitation with having your own cross platform
database.  What about moving towards a different backend and then
changing the query model to reflect that?

I had thought about the same limitations myself, that was one of the
things behind working on an sqlite backend.    The query system was very
good but somewhat limiting.  Maintaing that portion I thought was
somewhat burdensome.

We have the basis of a patch, on the sqlite backend which seems to be
pretty popular with a lot of music player applications.  It would take a
lot of pain but if we maintained the same api we could possibly get it
right.

sri



On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 09:39:00PM +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:00:36AM +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 20:52 +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote:
> > >
> > > I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.  This
> > > will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not planning to do
> > > much new development work on the rhythmbox project as it currently
> > > exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review patches, but it's too
> > > much of a dead end for me to do more than that.
> >
> > Why is it too much of a dead-end? The feature list stacks up nicely
> > against other music players, and although using C might be making our
> > life harder in some cases, I'm not sure I see ways to replace it in many
> > distributions.
>
> I'm not disputing that at all.  If I just saw rhythmbox as markedly
> inferior to a similar project, I'd probably go and hack on that, or let
> them continue as they are and find something else to do with my time.
>
> I don't have a concise summary of the problems I have with the current
> rhythmbox.  It's been building up over the last six months or so, maybe
> longer.
>
> Anyway, my main problem is that the underlying data model is too rigid
> and limited:
> - the set of queryable entry properties is fixed
> - entry properties can't have multiple values
> - albums don't exist, they're synthesized from whatever
>   entries happen to match the album name
> - file metadata, observed user data (play count, etc.), and user provided data
>   (ratings) are all stored together when they'd be more useful separate
> - the database is designed specifically to support implementation of the
>   genre->artist->album browser and doesn't work so well for other
>   things.
> - it doesn't always make sense that sources are completely distinct from
>   each other
>
> These things are pretty much baked into every aspect of rhythmbox.
> Rhythmbox is fine for what it is, but I don't think I can make it into
> what I want it to be.
>
> _______________________________________________
> rhythmbox-devel mailing list
> rhythmbox-devel@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/rhythmbox-devel

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[Gilles Dartiguelongue-4]

Le vendredi 20 février 2009 à 13:26 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit :

> This seems to be a limitation with having your own cross platform
> database.  What about moving towards a different backend and then
> changing the query model to reflect that?
>
> I had thought about the same limitations myself, that was one of the
> things behind working on an sqlite backend.    The query system was very
> good but somewhat limiting.  Maintaing that portion I thought was
> somewhat burdensome.
>
> We have the basis of a patch, on the sqlite backend which seems to be
> pretty popular with a lot of music player applications.  It would take a
> lot of pain but if we maintained the same api we could possibly get it
> right.
>
> sri

If you want to move rhythmbox db to sqlite, please try to see what you
can do with libgda-3 or libgda-4 which are now blessed externals deps of
gnome (iirc). It will allow to replace crappy sqlite perfs (on some
systems) by something real, transparently for rhythmbox.

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[Sriram Ramkrishna-2]

I can look into that.  I already wrote the backend, it has a number of
bugs, and it's really slow.  The slowness is because I'm not doing
enough work on waiting to see if I can do compound inserts rather than
doing an insert every time.  Basically, we need to support transactions.

Once you use a database you should be able to change the query language
to address Jonathan's observations on it's limitation.  I don't think
the problem is insurmountable but it is a lot of work and probably
should be branched as a separate project by those interested so that we
can continue to maintain stable.


sri


On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 14:59 +0100, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:

> Le vendredi 20 février 2009 à 13:26 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit :
> > This seems to be a limitation with having your own cross platform
> > database.  What about moving towards a different backend and then
> > changing the query model to reflect that?
> >
> > I had thought about the same limitations myself, that was one of the
> > things behind working on an sqlite backend.    The query system was very
> > good but somewhat limiting.  Maintaing that portion I thought was
> > somewhat burdensome.
> >
> > We have the basis of a patch, on the sqlite backend which seems to be
> > pretty popular with a lot of music player applications.  It would take a
> > lot of pain but if we maintained the same api we could possibly get it
> > right.
> >
> > sri
>
> If you want to move rhythmbox db to sqlite, please try to see what you
> can do with libgda-3 or libgda-4 which are now blessed externals deps of
> gnome (iirc). It will allow to replace crappy sqlite perfs (on some
> systems) by something real, transparently for rhythmbox.
>
> _______________________________________________
> rhythmbox-devel mailing list
> rhythmbox-devel@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/rhythmbox-devel

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[Sriram Ramkrishna-2]

James is around, but I think he's just really busy with his job and
doesn't have the time to help I'm going to assume.

sri

On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 03:28 -0700, Alex Lancaster wrote:

> [...]
>
> >> > I hope to be able to make a new release in the next month or so.
> >> This > will probably be numbered 0.12.0.  After that, I'm not
> >> planning to do > much new development work on the rhythmbox project
> >> as it currently > exists.  I'll still fix (some) bugs and review
> >> patches, but it's too > much of a dead end for me to do more than
> >> that.
>
> Bastien wrote:
>
> >> Why is it too much of a dead-end? The feature list stacks up nicely
> >> against other music players, and although using C might be making
> >> our life harder in some cases, I'm not sure I see ways to replace
> >> it in many distributions.
>
> >>>>> "GD" == Gilles Dartiguelongue  writes:
>
> GD> also, what about taking a new maintainer onboard for the module
> GD> (even more than one).
>
> What happened to James Livingston?  Did he withdraw from development
> permanently or was he planning to return at some point?  I never saw
> an official announcement about that.
>
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
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[James "Doc" Livingston]

On 22/02/2009, at 5:27 AM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
> James is around, but I think he's just really busy with his job and
> doesn't have the time to help I'm going to assume.

I'm kind of hanging around (read: still subscribed to the mailing  
list), but haven't been doing anything Rhythmbox-related in a while.  
About a year ago I got quite busy with work and dropped off a bit, and  
when work subsided I didn't get back into it.

Coincidentally, I'm starting a new job in a month (at Red Hat, but not  
in a Linux-related team) - whether I have more time to be involved in  
open-source projects, I don't know.


Cheers,
     James Livingston
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