How badly do we need something like the old Dueller ?
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Re: How badly do we need something like the old Dueller ?
by Massimiliano Maini-3
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Hi Frank/Tony,
if we were to redo the whole thing from scratch, wouldn't make more sense to consider the bots just as evaluation engines and let the Dueller handle the match ? I mean: - Dueller initializes the two bots: connection, play level, match/session rules (crawford, met, jacoby, beaver etc). - Dueller sends each decision (move or cube decision) to the bot, getting the answer. It will need to send the board, match score (for match play) and roll (for checker play). So the dueller code could be slightly more involved (keep track of the match/session, generate dice, etc), but the interface with the bots would be much simpler. MaX. On 2 February 2012 23:34, Frank Berger <frank@...> wrote: > Hi all, > > as promised: > > here http://www.bgblitz.de/download/UBGI/DBSI%200.6.1.doc is a link that describes the interface between Tony Lezards Dueller and BGBlitz. > This can be used as a base to implement a "remote control" for bots. > > To make it a little easier I put the BGBlitz code implementing the interface here > > http://www.bgblitz.de/download/UBGI/DBSI.zip > > as an example which can be used freely. The most important classes are Server, SetState and Command. > > I hope extreme Gammon will implement it and/or other bots like Palamedes. Maybe a new platform independent server will be implemented too. > Kudos to Tony for developing it and make it available. > > ciao > Frank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bug-gnubg mailing list > Bug-gnubg@... > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg _______________________________________________ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@... https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg |
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Re: How badly do we need something like the old Dueller ?
by Tony Lezard-2
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That's precisely what Dueller already does now. The tricky part is that in the case of programs like Snowie, where I haven't had any assistance from the developers, it has to simulate a Snowiebot implementing DBSI by carefully observing screen state and synthesising mouse/keyboard actions.
The gnubg module currently uses that sort of interface (with the CLI version) as well. Regards, Tony Lezard -----Original Message----- From: Massimiliano Maini [mailto:maxmaini@...] Sent: 07 February 2012 15:03 To: Frank Berger Cc: bug-gnubg@...; Tony Lezard Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] How badly do we need something like the old Dueller ? Hi Frank/Tony, if we were to redo the whole thing from scratch, wouldn't make more sense to consider the bots just as evaluation engines and let the Dueller handle the match ? I mean: - Dueller initializes the two bots: connection, play level, match/session rules (crawford, met, jacoby, beaver etc). - Dueller sends each decision (move or cube decision) to the bot, getting the answer. It will need to send the board, match score (for match play) and roll (for checker play). So the dueller code could be slightly more involved (keep track of the match/session, generate dice, etc), but the interface with the bots would be much simpler. MaX. On 2 February 2012 23:34, Frank Berger <frank@...> wrote: > Hi all, > > as promised: > > here http://www.bgblitz.de/download/UBGI/DBSI%200.6.1.doc is a link that describes the interface between Tony Lezards Dueller and BGBlitz. > This can be used as a base to implement a "remote control" for bots. > > To make it a little easier I put the BGBlitz code implementing the > interface here > > http://www.bgblitz.de/download/UBGI/DBSI.zip > > as an example which can be used freely. The most important classes are Server, SetState and Command. > > I hope extreme Gammon will implement it and/or other bots like Palamedes. Maybe a new platform independent server will be implemented too. > Kudos to Tony for developing it and make it available. > > ciao > Frank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bug-gnubg mailing list > Bug-gnubg@... > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg _______________________________________________ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@... https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg |
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Re: How badly do we need something like the old Dueller ?
by Frank Berger
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Hi MaX, Hi Tony, > That's precisely what Dueller already does now. The tricky part is that in the case of programs like Snowie, where I haven't had any assistance from the developers, it has to simulate a Snowiebot implementing DBSI by carefully observing screen state and synthesising mouse/keyboard actions. > > The gnubg module currently uses that sort of interface (with the CLI version) as well. My wishlist to Dueller is pretty short: - don't start BGBlitz itself but use host:port as parameter - or better just call it Socket Interface and just use host:port. That way everyone could plug in even if running on another OS. And it is more robust against changes. E.g. because Dueller started BGBlitz itself it failed when I restructured the file structure of BGB. ciao Frank _______________________________________________ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@... https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg |
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Re: How badly do we need something like the old Dueller ?
by Massimiliano Maini-3
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Thanks for the info Tony, it makes sense.
Personally, I think we could drop snowie in a potential new release of Dueller: no activity in a while and no support from the developpers, which makes Dueller job harder. On top, gnubg is at least as strong as Snowie and for a much more interesting price :) It would be nice to have Dueller working with gnubg, bgblitz (these already OK AFAIK) and mostly extreme gammon, the new king. MaX. On 7 February 2012 17:14, Tony Lezard <tlezard@...> wrote: > That's precisely what Dueller already does now. The tricky part is that in the case of programs like Snowie, where I haven't had any assistance from the developers, it has to simulate a Snowiebot implementing DBSI by carefully observing screen state and synthesising mouse/keyboard actions. > > The gnubg module currently uses that sort of interface (with the CLI version) as well. > > Regards, > > Tony Lezard > > -----Original Message----- > From: Massimiliano Maini [mailto:maxmaini@...] > Sent: 07 February 2012 15:03 > To: Frank Berger > Cc: bug-gnubg@...; Tony Lezard > Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] How badly do we need something like the old Dueller ? > > Hi Frank/Tony, > > if we were to redo the whole thing from scratch, wouldn't make more sense to consider the bots just as evaluation engines and let the Dueller handle the match ? > > I mean: > > - Dueller initializes the two bots: connection, play level, match/session rules (crawford, met, jacoby, beaver etc). > > - Dueller sends each decision (move or cube decision) to the bot, getting the answer. It will need to send the board, match score (for match play) and roll (for checker play). > > So the dueller code could be slightly more involved (keep track of the match/session, generate dice, etc), but the interface with the bots would be much simpler. > > MaX. > > On 2 February 2012 23:34, Frank Berger <frank@...> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> as promised: >> >> here http://www.bgblitz.de/download/UBGI/DBSI%200.6.1.doc is a link that describes the interface between Tony Lezards Dueller and BGBlitz. >> This can be used as a base to implement a "remote control" for bots. >> >> To make it a little easier I put the BGBlitz code implementing the >> interface here >> >> http://www.bgblitz.de/download/UBGI/DBSI.zip >> >> as an example which can be used freely. The most important classes are Server, SetState and Command. >> >> I hope extreme Gammon will implement it and/or other bots like Palamedes. Maybe a new platform independent server will be implemented too. >> Kudos to Tony for developing it and make it available. >> >> ciao >> Frank >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bug-gnubg mailing list >> Bug-gnubg@... >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg > _______________________________________________ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@... https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg |
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