IBM Unveils Rails-like Web Framework Stack Built Using Groovy - Project Zero

[Gerald Bauer]

Hello,

   IBM has just unveiled a new project titled Project Zero that sports the tagline: Zero complexity. Zero overhead. Zero obstacles.

   Evidently it's another attempt to learn from Rails and bring the productivity benefits of convention of configuration, DRY, meta programming and more to the Java & Groovy world.

   If anyone tries out Project Zero, let us know what you think. Find out more @ http://www.projectzero.org

  Cheers,

     Gerald

PS: Allow me to highlight the FAQ entry titled "What value does Project Zero provide on top of Groovy?":

Through the GlobalContext and event infrastructure, the Project Zero core provides an extremely loosely coupled programming model which fosters componentization and reuse. The Project Zero core also provides a convention for arranging scripts on disk in such a way that prescribes their location in an application's URI space. Groovy is one vehicle for plugging into this environment, but on its own is simply a scripting language.

___________________________________________________________
Gerald Bauer - Internet Professional - http://geraldbauer.wordpress.com

[tugwilson]

Note that this is not an Open Source project. IBM is quite clear that this is a commercial project and they intend to licence it commercially. No non IBM people are allowed commit access to the core components. All the IP on any contribution is owned by IBM (this seem to include suggestions and code contributions).

To their credit they make this very clear in the FAQ.

If they want to own my IP I would not give them the time of day.

Also, looking at their Groovy examples, they are very much beginners at the language. I'd love to help them understand the language better but then they'd own the IP.

It looks a very one sided deal to me.

John Wilson

[Tom Nichols]

Let the Grails comparisons commence!

It's good to see Groovy being used more seriously.  Any attention that
this project brings to Groovy should help Groovy's credibility.  I
suppose we have to forgive them for calling Groovy "simply a scripting
language..."

I agree w/ tug, I suspect when people see the licensing terms they
will start looking at alternatives, probably Grails being one of them.
 So this really is probably a good thing for Groovy and Grails.

-Tom

On 7/2/07, Gerald Bauer <geraldbauer2007@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
>    IBM has just unveiled a new project titled Project Zero that sports the
> tagline: Zero complexity. Zero overhead. Zero obstacles.
>
>    Evidently it's another attempt to learn from Rails and bring the
> productivity benefits of convention of configuration, DRY, meta programming
> and more to the Java & Groovy world.
>
>    If anyone tries out Project Zero, let us know what you think. Find out
> more @ http://www.projectzero.org
>
>   Cheers,
>
>      Gerald
>
> PS: Allow me to highlight the FAQ entry titled "What value does Project Zero
> provide on top of Groovy?":
>
> Through the GlobalContext and event infrastructure, the Project Zero core
> provides an extremely loosely coupled programming model which fosters
> componentization and reuse. The Project Zero core also provides a convention
> for arranging scripts on disk in such a way that prescribes their location
> in an application's URI space. Groovy is one vehicle for plugging into this
> environment, but on its own is simply a scripting language.
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Gerald Bauer - Internet Professional - http://geraldbauer.wordpress.com
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/IBM-Unveils-Rails-like-Web-Framework-Stack-Built-Using-Groovy---Project-Zero-tf4013830.html#a11398609
> Sent from the groovy - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
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>
>

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[Scott Hickey-3]

As I read it, I was increasingly shocked at how blatantly one-sided it is and kept thinking there must be a  "I benefit..." somewhere.

Its truly "Help us build our commercial software and we won't pay and you won't have any rights to use it." That's it. It appears that the best case scenario is that I would somehow like it, never need to look at the source, and would only ever need to run it on up to a 4 core machine.

If anyone is looking to work for free, we've got *plenty* of JIRA issues we could use help on with the Groovy Eclipse Plugin.

Scott


----- Original Message ----
From: tugwilson <tug@...>
To: user@...
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2007 1:14:53 PM
Subject: Re: [groovy-user] IBM Unveils Rails-like Web Framework Stack Built Using Groovy - Project Zero


Note that this is not an Open Source project. IBM is quite clear that this
is a commercial project and they intend to licence it commercially. No non
IBM people are allowed commit access to the core components. All the IP on
any contribution is owned by IBM (this seem to include suggestions and code
contributions).

To their credit they make this very clear in the FAQ.

If they want to own my IP I would not give them the time of day.

Also, looking at their Groovy examples, they are very much beginners at the
language. I'd love to help them understand the language better but then
they'd own the IP.

It looks a very one sided deal to me.

John Wilson


--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/IBM-Unveils-Rails-like-Web-Framework-Stack-Built-Using-Groovy---Project-Zero-tf4013830.html#a11398992
Sent from the groovy - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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[tugwilson]

Scott Hickey-3 wrote:

As I read it, I was increasingly shocked at how blatantly one-sided it is and kept thinking there must be a  "I benefit..." somewhere.

Its truly "Help us build our commercial software and we won't pay and you won't have any rights to use it." That's it. It appears that the best case scenario is that I would somehow like it, never need to look at the source, and would only ever need to run it on up to a 4 core machine.

I believe that they intend to make the source available in the near future. Presumably under similar terms as Sun used to release the JDK source.

If anybody is tempted to download the source I'd recommend looking closely at the licensing terms. Be sure that reading the source does not "infect" in the way that Sun's old JDK source licensing terms did (it meant you could not work on anything which might benefit from what you learned form the source - Disclaimer IANAL, it was al ong time ago and I may well have got the details of Sun's infective licence wrong)

John Wilson

[Jochen Theodorou]

Hi Gerald,

nice to see that you are still alive ;) It will be interesting to see
how this project will influence Groovy and Grails... maybe it will not
at all? ;)

bye blackdrag

--
Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
Groovy Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/

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[graemer]

Looking at the examples and code there is not really a comparison to
make between Grails/Rails and this Zero thing

It is more like PHP for Groovy. There is no ORM layer, the controller
and view are seamingly mixed together and no real controller layer. It
is an abandonment of the MVC architecture and seems to focus on page
centric applications based on an eventing system

Cheers

On 7/2/07, Jochen Theodorou <blackdrag@...> wrote:

> Hi Gerald,
>
> nice to see that you are still alive ;) It will be interesting to see
> how this project will influence Groovy and Grails... maybe it will not
> at all? ;)
>
> bye blackdrag
>
> --
> Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
> Groovy Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
> http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>

--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
http://grails.org

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[Jason Dillon]

Hrm.... that url pukes up:

<snip>
Software error:

flush(): couldn't store datastr: store(): couldn't close '/var/twiki/
cgisess_3e792d92e272a2d487f4fb8ab7600155': No space left on device  
at /zerogpfs/stlzro1/wiki/lib/TWiki/Client.pm line 451.
For help, please send mail to the webmaster ([no address given]),  
giving this error message and the time and date of the error.

</snip>

:-(


--jason


On Jul 2, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Gerald Bauer wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
>    IBM has just unveiled a new project titled Project Zero that  
> sports the
> tagline: Zero complexity. Zero overhead. Zero obstacles.
>
>    Evidently it's another attempt to learn from Rails and bring the
> productivity benefits of convention of configuration, DRY, meta  
> programming
> and more to the Java & Groovy world.
>
>    If anyone tries out Project Zero, let us know what you think.  
> Find out
> more @ http://www.projectzero.org
>
>   Cheers,
>
>      Gerald
>
> PS: Allow me to highlight the FAQ entry titled "What value does  
> Project Zero
> provide on top of Groovy?":
>
> Through the GlobalContext and event infrastructure, the Project  
> Zero core
> provides an extremely loosely coupled programming model which fosters
> componentization and reuse. The Project Zero core also provides a  
> convention
> for arranging scripts on disk in such a way that prescribes their  
> location
> in an application's URI space. Groovy is one vehicle for plugging  
> into this
> environment, but on its own is simply a scripting language.
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Gerald Bauer - Internet Professional - http://
> geraldbauer.wordpress.com
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/IBM-Unveils- 
> Rails-like-Web-Framework-Stack-Built-Using-Groovy---Project-Zero-
> tf4013830.html#a11398609
> Sent from the groovy - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>

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[Paul King]

Graeme Rocher wrote:
> Looking at the examples and code there is not really a comparison to
> make between Grails/Rails and this Zero thing
>
> It is more like PHP for Groovy. There is no ORM layer, the controller
> and view are seamingly mixed together and no real controller layer. It
> is an abandonment of the MVC architecture and seems to focus on page
> centric applications based on an eventing system

Yes, I see Zero mostly as good news.  I think it is mostly complementary
to Grails.  For their mission critical applications, I think Grails
will be the number one option of choice for most corporate and government
organisations.  For the next tier down though, which is where PHP's
sweet spot is, Zero could be a good option. At least I think it could
be if IBM can sell Zero as a concept to hosting providers.

What would be nicer though is if any resources the Zero team put towards
generic functionality was made as a contribution towards Groovy itself
and they kept only their framework specific classes in the "closed"
source world. Just look at all the great features which feed into
Groovy from Grails.

I can't see Zero's current model as being attractive for typical
open source developers to want to contribute but on the flip side
I do still see some organisations that are cautious towards open
source who might feel more comfortable knowing IBM is supporting
the Zero offering.

Cheers, Paul.



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[Gerald Bauer]

Hello,

   FYI: For more reactions about Project Zero and Groovy & Grails in
the Java community you might also browse over the Java Lobby thread
and commentary online @
http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t98213.html

   Ted Miller, for example, writes:

    I would say that the license is quite restrictive and probably
condemns this project to failure. IBM should know better.

   And Christopher Brown writes:

    Anyone trying out Project Zero might wish to compare it with
Grails at http://grails.codehaus.org/ which has a lot of momentum and
an apparently nicer licence...

   Cheers,

     Gerald
______________________________________________________________________
Vancouver Groovy & Grails User Group @ http://groups.google.com/group/groovy-van

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