ICD2 as programmer : Why isn't it releasing reset after program?

[Mike Harrison]

In the past I've used ICD2 in programmer-only mode to automatically program after a build, which
worked fine, giving a very fast code/run debug cycle.
However after installing MPLAB 8.20 ( also just tried 8.33), it no longer releases reset
automatically after programming, so you have to do this manually every time, which is getting
annoying....

The'Run after successful program' box is greyed out, presumably as it;s being used as a programmer
not a debugger

Is there any way round this?

 

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[Bob Axtell-3]

Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.

The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on any version after 7.4 or 7.6.

If you need a copy to install, let me know; some of the MPLAB archives
are corrupted.

--Bob A

On 6/29/09, Mike Harrison <mike@...> wrote:

> In the past I've used ICD2 in programmer-only mode to automatically program
> after a build, which
> worked fine, giving a very fast code/run debug cycle.
> However after installing MPLAB 8.20 ( also just tried 8.33), it no longer
> releases reset
> automatically after programming, so you have to do this manually every time,
> which is getting
> annoying....
>
> The'Run after successful program' box is greyed out, presumably as it;s
> being used as a programmer
> not a debugger
>
> Is there any way round this?
>
>
>
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[Olin Lathrop]

Bob Axtell wrote:
> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
>
> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on any version after
> 7.4 or 7.6.

Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE.  Those flaky random
disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.


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[Mike Harrison]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:20:12 -0400, you wrote:

>Bob Axtell wrote:
>> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
>>
>> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on any version after
>> 7.4 or 7.6.
>
>Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE.  Those flaky random
>disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.

Just got a reply from the ticket I submitted on this - They admit they screwed up but can't be
bothered to fix it until MPLAB 10 comes out next year.
Pathetic response for what would be a trivially easy fix.


"The change of operation is known, and a result of conflict between 'Release from Reset' and the
'Hold in Reset' buttons were not in the correct state when "run after successful program" was
enabled. This limitation is documented in the  MPLAB ICD2 help overview section.

The conflict will be resolved when the new MPLAB IDE 10 is released next year."

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[Bob Axtell-3]

We are thinking about it.

On 6/30/09, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclist@...> wrote:

> Bob Axtell wrote:
>> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
>>
>> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on any version after
>> 7.4 or 7.6.
>
> Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE.  Those flaky random
> disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.
>
>
> ********************************************************************
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> [phone].  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.
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> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
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[Funny N.]

Bob,
You may also consider the PICkit 2, it has many enhanced features which an ICD2 doesn't have. When Walter Kicinski was still at Microchip, He had many improvement done on both MPLAB and PICkit 2 PC software.

I got some clients using our BB0703 and BB0703+(s) with the CMD for product line too.

Due to the open-source structure, there are some new features can be added to PICKit 2 from source code level.

Even though It is up to the vendor and Microchip to release those improvements to the public or not. But the beauty is: the source code and schematic is there, you can modify them and suite your own purpose as you can.

We submitted our 4M byte Programmer-to-Go source code to Microchip in the middle of March 2009 (code was finalized around Jan-2009 and some heavy tested had been carried by our lab and product line. ), Microchip PICKit 2 team had integrated the C# source code into the V2.61 releases. So, now the Programmer-to-go GUI can support max. 4M bytes SPI flash memories. Hopefully, the firmware code will be add to next major PICkit 2 firmware releases.

There will be some post announce our 512K, 1M and 4M byte edition of BB0703 in the near future at our forum:
http://www.auelectronics.com/forum/index.php/board,7.0.html

Best Regards,

 Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com
http://www.AuElectronics.com/products
http://augroups.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: Bob Axtell <bob.axtell@...>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <piclist@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 11:56:36 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC] ICD2 as programmer : Why isn't it releasing reset  afterprogram?

We are thinking about it.

On 6/30/09, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclist@...> wrote:

> Bob Axtell wrote:
>> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
>>
>> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on any version after
>> 7.4 or 7.6.
>
> Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE.  Those flaky random
> disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.
>
>
> ********************************************************************
> Embed Inc, LittletonMassachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
> [phone].  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.
> --
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> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>

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[howardh]

Hi,

The ability to control the MCLR line using the 'Release from Reset/Hold in Reset' toolbar buttons conflicted with this particular setting under ICD 2.  

Therefore, we have disabled the automatic run.  If you need the target to run after programming, you can simply disconnect the target from the ICD 2 or push the toolbar button to release from MCLR from hold.  

The option is available when in the ICD 2 debugger mode,where much of your development is probably taking place.

Thanks,

Howard Hom
Microchip

Mike Harrison wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:20:12 -0400, you wrote:

>Bob Axtell wrote:
>> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
>>
>> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on any version after
>> 7.4 or 7.6.
>
>Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE.  Those flaky random
>disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.

Just got a reply from the ticket I submitted on this - They admit they screwed up but can't be
bothered to fix it until MPLAB 10 comes out next year.
Pathetic response for what would be a trivially easy fix.


"The change of operation is known, and a result of conflict between 'Release from Reset' and the
'Hold in Reset' buttons were not in the correct state when "run after successful program" was
enabled. This limitation is documented in the  MPLAB ICD2 help overview section.

The conflict will be resolved when the new MPLAB IDE 10 is released next year."

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[Russell McMahon-4]

Forwarding bounced message from Howard Hom, Microchip.


Date: 2009/7/3
Subject: Auto-discard notification
To: piclist-owner@...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: howardh <howard.hom@...>
To: piclist@...
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [PIC] ICD2 as programmer : Why isn't it releasing reset
afterprogram?

Hi,

The ability to control the MCLR line using the 'Release from Reset/Hold in
Reset' toolbar buttons conflicted with this particular setting under ICD 2.

Therefore, we have disabled the automatic run.  If you need the target to
run after programming, you can simply disconnect the target from the ICD 2
or push the toolbar button to release from MCLR from hold.

The option is available when in the ICD 2 debugger mode,where much of your
development is probably taking place.

Thanks,

Howard Hom
Microchip


Mike Harrison wrote:

>
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:20:12 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>Bob Axtell wrote:
>>> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
>>>
>>> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on any version after
>>> 7.4 or 7.6.
>>
>>Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE.  Those flaky random
>>disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.
>
> Just got a reply from the ticket I submitted on this - They admit they
> screwed up but can't be
> bothered to fix it until MPLAB 10 comes out next year.
> Pathetic response for what would be a trivially easy fix.
>
>
> "The change of operation is known, and a result of conflict between
> 'Release from Reset' and the
> 'Hold in Reset' buttons were not in the correct state when "run after
> successful program" was
> enabled. This limitation is documented in the  MPLAB ICD2 help overview
> section.
>
> The conflict will be resolved when the new MPLAB IDE 10 is released next
> year."
>

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[John Chung]

Really........ Argh. I know how you feel. At times like this, OSS
is the way to go.

John

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Mike Harrison <mike@...> wrote:

> From: Mike Harrison <mike@...>
> Subject: Re: [PIC] ICD2 as programmer : Why isn't it releasing reset afterprogram?
> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:02 AM
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:20:12 -0400,
> you wrote:
>
> >Bob Axtell wrote:
> >> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
> >>
> >> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on
> any version after
> >> 7.4 or 7.6.
> >
> >Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE. 
> Those flaky random
> >disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.
>
> Just got a reply from the ticket I submitted on this - They
> admit they screwed up but can't be
> bothered to fix it until MPLAB 10 comes out next year.
> Pathetic response for what would be a trivially easy fix.
>
>
> "The change of operation is known, and a result of conflict
> between 'Release from Reset' and the
> 'Hold in Reset' buttons were not in the correct state when
> "run after successful program" was
> enabled. This limitation is documented in the  MPLAB
> ICD2 help overview section.
>
> The conflict will be resolved when the new MPLAB IDE 10 is
> released next year."
>
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> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:25 PM, John Chung<kravnus@...> wrote:
>
> Really........ Argh. I know how you feel. At times like this, OSS
> is the way to go.

Hmm, how does OSS help here? The real help is to forget
about ICD 2, which is too problematic.


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[John Chung]

It helps since we have access to the src code. MPLAB is propriety software.
Don't see the need to ICD3 yet.... Not been very active developing MCU programs for a while.


John

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc@...> wrote:

> From: Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc@...>
> Subject: Re: [PIC] ICD2 as programmer : Why isn't it releasing reset  afterprogram?
> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 7:02 PM
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:25 PM, John
> Chung<kravnus@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Really........ Argh. I know how you feel. At times
> like this, OSS
> > is the way to go.
>
> Hmm, how does OSS help here? The real help is to forget
> about ICD 2, which is too problematic.
>
>
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:43 PM, John Chung<kravnus@...> wrote:
>
> It helps since we have access to the src code. MPLAB is propriety software.

I do not see Microchip will open source MPLAB any time soon. They
might release some software to support Linux and Mac OS X but
those will not be open source either.

> Don't see the need to ICD3 yet.... Not been very active developing MCU
> programs for a while.
>

I do not use PIC at work either in this job. So I have not used ICD 3 and
Real ICE yet. But I see some designs using small PICs as the
auxiliary MCU here. So I saw the first ICD 2 today in the company
as the other colleague is doing a redesign of the existing device
which uses 8-pin PIC as a housekeeping MCU along with the
main MPU which is an ARM 9. I did introduce Microchip EEPROMs
in the company and got a SeeVal 32 two years back.
http://mcuee.blogspot.com/2007/05/first-try-of-blog.html
At that time, PICkit 2 did not support serial EEPROM. Later
PICkit 2 supports serial EEPROMs.


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[Olin Lathrop]

John Chung wrote:
> Really........ Argh. I know how you feel. At times like this, OSS
> is the way to go.

How does OSS have anything to do with the ICD2 being flaky?


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[Olin Lathrop]

John Chung wrote:
> It helps since we have access to the src code. MPLAB is propriety
> software.

Yeah, and you'd really go looking thru 100s of 1000s of lines of source code
and spend long hours debugging the ICD2 interface only to find out you don't
know why it randomly flakes out either, right?  And Microchip hasn't noticed
or doesn't care about the problem and none of the engineers that have a lot
more knowledge of the ICD2 than you can possibly have never tried to find
and deal with the problems?  Then the ICD2 problems have to be on the host
side.  I actually suspect they have more to do with the ICD2 to chip
interface than they do with the host to ICD2 interface.

Methinks you are protesting on emotional or philosophical grounds without
any real substance.  Even if you think you have the knowledge and skill to
track down the problem, it's a long long way to go to avoid getting a
RealICE.


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[Mark Rages]

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Olin Lathrop<olin_piclist@...> wrote:
> John Chung wrote:
>> Really........ Argh. I know how you feel. At times like this, OSS
>> is the way to go.
>
> How does OSS have anything to do with the ICD2 being flaky?

It was a piece of flaky hardware that started the whole Free Software movement:

http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch01.html

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
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[John Chung]

Olin,

They do have a better understanding then I do about the problem but here is a snippet from Mark. They have identified the problem yet holding it off till MPLAB 10? I have seen quick responses for your own bug fixes. Would you tolerate such attitude to an "easy fix"?

John

> From: Mike Harrison <mike@...>
> Subject: Re: [PIC] ICD2 as programmer : Why isn't it releasing reset afterprogram?
> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:02 AM
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:20:12 -0400,
> you wrote:
>
> >Bob Axtell wrote:
> >> Mike, go back to MPLAB v7.4.
> >>
> >> The ICDC2 has never worked correctly, for me, on
> any version after
> >> 7.4 or 7.6.
> >
> >Or even better, ditch the ICD2 and get a RealICE.
> Those flaky random
> >disconnects seem to be gone, and they're cheap enough.
>
> Just got a reply from the ticket I submitted on this - They
> admit they screwed up but can't be
> bothered to fix it until MPLAB 10 comes out next year.
> Pathetic response for what would be a trivially easy fix.
>
>
> "The change of operation is known, and a result of conflict
> between 'Release from Reset' and the
> 'Hold in Reset' buttons were not in the correct state when
> "run after successful program" was
> enabled. This limitation is documented in the  MPLAB
> ICD2 help overview section.
>
> The conflict will be resolved when the new MPLAB IDE 10 is
> released next year."

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclist@...> wrote:

> From: Olin Lathrop <olin_piclist@...>
> Subject: Re: [PIC] ICD2 as programmer : Why isn't it releasing resetafterprogram?
> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
> Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 7:55 PM
> John Chung wrote:
> > It helps since we have access to the src code. MPLAB
> is propriety
> > software.
>
> Yeah, and you'd really go looking thru 100s of 1000s of
> lines of source code
> and spend long hours debugging the ICD2 interface only to
> find out you don't
> know why it randomly flakes out either, right?  And
> Microchip hasn't noticed
> or doesn't care about the problem and none of the engineers
> that have a lot
> more knowledge of the ICD2 than you can possibly have never
> tried to find
> and deal with the problems?  Then the ICD2 problems
> have to be on the host
> side.  I actually suspect they have more to do with
> the ICD2 to chip
> interface than they do with the host to ICD2 interface.
>
> Methinks you are protesting on emotional or philosophical
> grounds without
> any real substance.  Even if you think you have the
> knowledge and skill to
> track down the problem, it's a long long way to go to avoid
> getting a
> RealICE.
>
>
> ********************************************************************
> Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
> [phone].  Gold level PIC consultants since
> 2000.
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> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
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[Olin Lathrop]

John Chung wrote:
> They do have a better understanding then I do about the problem but
> here is a snippet from Mark. They have identified the problem yet
> holding it off till MPLAB 10? I have seen quick responses for your
> own bug fixes. Would you tolerate such attitude to an "easy fix"?

I thought you were complaining about a serious problem.  This doesn't seem
like a big deal to work around.  I don't know the software structure, but if
it were easy to do they would probably do it in the next release.  Reading
between the lines of the statement, I'm guessing they plan on some
restructuring in that area for version 10 anyway.  It may be the current
structure is a bit messy and fixing this problem not as easy as it seems on
the outside.  I can understand why the priority is low, so fixing it in
version 10 doesn't sound that out of line.

Again, if you really care, get a RealICE.  If it's not worth the few 100 $$
to you, then you obviously agree its a low priority issue too.


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[William "Chops" Westfield]

On Jul 3, 2009, at 8:30 AM, Mark Rages wrote:
>
> It was a piece of flaky hardware that started the whole Free  
> Software movement:
> http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch01.html

Ah, bullcrap.  Everyone gives RMS credit for starting the Free  
Software Movement, when in fact the computer science community has a  
long tradition of "open source" that pre-dates GNU and FSF by many  
years (probably decades.)  It's true that the audience was much  
smaller, and perhaps the authors didn't have "I'll sell this and  
become filthy rich" mentality, but the US ARMY saw fit to set up a  
site to host downloads of CP/M freeware and shareware back when RMS  
was hacking mainframes and Lisp machine that normal people could have  
cared less about, and DECUS ("Steal from your friends") was founded  
back when he was still wearing diapers.)

MAYBE they helped codify appropriate publication standards for an  
increasingly commercial and litigious software business environment,  
and MAYBE they just attached a political agenda.  But RMS/FSF did NOT  
originate the idea of Free Software.  (How do you think Wirth's  
compiler (or Richie's) got around in the first place?)

(Sorry.  Pet peeve.  Grr.)


>> and you'd really go looking thru 100s of 1000s of lines of source  
>> code and spend long hours debugging the ICD2 interface only to find  
>> out you don't know why it randomly flakes out either, right?

Maybe, maybe not.  But it's nice to have the opportunity.   Even  
moderately well written code isn't so hard to fix bugs in (or add  
features/workaround) without having to read/understand the whole  
thing.  Shucks, I've modified programs written in languages that I  
don't even know how to program in...

BillW


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[Gerhard Fiedler]

William "Chops" Westfield wrote:

> On Jul 3, 2009, at 8:30 AM, Mark Rages wrote:
>>
>> It was a piece of flaky hardware that started the whole Free  
>> Software movement:
>> http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch01.html
>
> Ah, bullcrap.  Everyone gives RMS credit for starting the Free
> Software Movement, when in fact the computer science community has a
> long tradition of "open source" that pre-dates GNU and FSF by many
> years (probably decades.)  

Isn't this exactly his point? That it used to be like that, and that he
started his movement to preserve or get back to that -- when much or
most of the software world went somewhere else?

Gerhard
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[Alan B. Pearce-2]

>John Chung wrote:
>> They do have a better understanding then I do about the
>> problem but here is a snippet from Mark.
...
>I thought you were complaining about a serious problem.  This
>doesn't seem like a big deal to work around.
...
>Again, if you really care, get a RealICE.  If it's not worth
>the few 100 $$ to you, then you obviously agree its a low
>priority issue too.

Well, I think the problem is that the ICD2 used to work properly, but the
MPLAB code that drives it is now broken - and it is apparently going to take
them an age to unbreak it!!! V10 to fix it? Shucks, we are still in the low
V8 ...

Maybe v10 will be based on Java, and run on *nix as well as win****

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