Info reqd to learn and practice JCL, COBOL, DB2 and ASSEMBLER on Hercules

[Amit Arora-6]

Hi all,

I have installed hercules-3.06 on windows from the site and need to learn and practice JCL,COBOL,DB2 and ASSEMBLER.I am downloading the iso image of MVS TK3 system from www.ibiblio.org but this monster file as it was said is taking a lot of time .

1)I wish to know how many hours approximately it will take to download this 500 MB file on a normal PC?

2)Is MVS 380 from www.sourceforge.net an alternate to MVS TK3 system?If I download it how much time this will take approximately?

3)What other files will be required to learn JCL,COBOL,DB2, Assembler with TSO,ISPF etc?
(for ASSEMBLER I have already installed ASSIST and that is working fine on windows.Will this work on MVS TK3 or MVS 380?)

4)If and only if downloading from site takes so much of time and buying a CD is a cheaper and convinient mode Where can I get the CD for installing MVS TK3 as mentioned in the site?Can I get the CD in India from any body (the amount I will pay and no doubt the amount should go to thwe person who has put efforts to and prepare the system and softwares)or do I need to order through the site?And if I order through site how many days it will take and how much I will need to pay?At one place it is mentioned 5 dollars and at other 15 dollars?

(Anybody who can answer all my queries)

Regards

Amit

[Gerhard Postpischil]

amit.arora275 wrote:
> 1)I wish to know how many hours approximately it will take to
> download this 500 MB file on a normal PC?

It depends on the speed and quality of your connection. On my
cable connection it took less than 10 minutes. With a dial-up
link, it could take several days.....

> 2)Is MVS 380 from www.sourceforge.net an alternate to MVS TK3
> system?If I download it how much time this will take
> approximately?

MVS 380 is built on top of MVS 3.8j, but I'm not aware of a
location that has the correct MVS version available for download
(changes are applied via shadow files, making the version of the
base critical for correct installation). The file section of the
hercules-os380 group has a command file that automates the
installation process, but it requires tk3 as a base.

> 3)What other files will be required to learn JCL,COBOL,DB2,
> Assembler with TSO,ISPF etc? (for ASSEMBLER I have already
> installed ASSIST and that is working fine on windows.Will
> this work on MVS TK3 or MVS 380?)

The MVS system comes with old (and free) versions of Assembler
XF, CoBOL, PL/I, and ForTran. The Waterloo version of ForTran is
available for separate download, as are some other add-ons.
Unfortunately DB2, IMS, CICS, and ISPF are licensed IBM
products, and are not available. We have an editor that provides
some of the ISPF/PDF functionality (RPF by Rob Prins), but it
does not provide panel processing, dialog manager, nor other
current ISPF features.

> 4)If and only if downloading from site takes so much of time
> and buying a CD is a cheaper and convinient mode Where can I
> get the CD for installing MVS TK3 as mentioned in the
> site?Can I get the CD in India from any body (the amount I
> will pay and no doubt the amount should go to thwe person who
> has put efforts to and prepare the system and softwares)or do
> I need to order through the site?And if I order through site
> how many days it will take and how much I will need to pay?At
> one place it is mentioned 5 dollars and at other 15 dollars?

You might be able to get the CD (or file on a memory stick) from
a colleague in India. I purchased mine from www.cbttape.org for
$5 plus shipping.



Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

[Amit Arora-6]

I am finally successful in downloading the mvs turnkey system from the site and as dear Gerhard had mentioned with the help of the virtual CD ROM I have got the drive for the system.It has so many files.I tried to install through set up with the option SIMPLE .Now perhaps hercules ,mvs etc are installed.Do I need to install anything else separately?How can I get the RPF panel and how can I start with JCL,COBOL and Assembler?I am able to see only the command prompt of the hercules version 2.16.5 installed through this process?What else can I do further?

--- In hercules-390@..., Gerhard Postpischil <gerhard@...> wrote:

>
> amit.arora275 wrote:
> > 1)I wish to know how many hours approximately it will take to
> > download this 500 MB file on a normal PC?
>
> It depends on the speed and quality of your connection. On my
> cable connection it took less than 10 minutes. With a dial-up
> link, it could take several days.....
>
> > 2)Is MVS 380 from www.sourceforge.net an alternate to MVS TK3
> > system?If I download it how much time this will take
> > approximately?
>
> MVS 380 is built on top of MVS 3.8j, but I'm not aware of a
> location that has the correct MVS version available for download
> (changes are applied via shadow files, making the version of the
> base critical for correct installation). The file section of the
> hercules-os380 group has a command file that automates the
> installation process, but it requires tk3 as a base.
>
> > 3)What other files will be required to learn JCL,COBOL,DB2,
> > Assembler with TSO,ISPF etc? (for ASSEMBLER I have already
> > installed ASSIST and that is working fine on windows.Will
> > this work on MVS TK3 or MVS 380?)
>
> The MVS system comes with old (and free) versions of Assembler
> XF, CoBOL, PL/I, and ForTran. The Waterloo version of ForTran is
> available for separate download, as are some other add-ons.
> Unfortunately DB2, IMS, CICS, and ISPF are licensed IBM
> products, and are not available. We have an editor that provides
> some of the ISPF/PDF functionality (RPF by Rob Prins), but it
> does not provide panel processing, dialog manager, nor other
> current ISPF features.
>
> > 4)If and only if downloading from site takes so much of time
> > and buying a CD is a cheaper and convinient mode Where can I
> > get the CD for installing MVS TK3 as mentioned in the
> > site?Can I get the CD in India from any body (the amount I
> > will pay and no doubt the amount should go to thwe person who
> > has put efforts to and prepare the system and softwares)or do
> > I need to order through the site?And if I order through site
> > how many days it will take and how much I will need to pay?At
> > one place it is mentioned 5 dollars and at other 15 dollars?
>
> You might be able to get the CD (or file on a memory stick) from
> a colleague in India. I purchased mine from www.cbttape.org for
> $5 plus shipping.
>
>
>
> Gerhard Postpischil
> Bradford, VT
>

[ScottC-3]

Hi Amit,



Now that you have successfully downloaded the Turnkey System (TK3 -
circa 2002), the more appropriate forum for asking questions about that
system is the Turnkey Forum:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/turnkey-mvs
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/turnkey-mvs>



And may I also recommend the os380 group:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-os380
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-os380>



for asking most any question on TK3, MVS, GCCMVS (C-compiler), JCL, etc.



You may want to familiarize yourself with:

http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/cookbook/index.html
<http://www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/cookbook/index.html>



The os380 group also has an automated installation process (for Windows
users) to bring the old TK3 distribution up-to-date with Hercules 3.06
and the wc3270, terminal emulator:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-os380/files/TK3qstart-0_00g.\
zip
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-os380/files/TK3qstart-0_00g\
.zip>



Good luck!



--- In hercules-390@..., "amit.arora275" <amit.arora275@...>
wrote:
>
> I am finally successful in downloading the mvs turnkey system from the
site and as dear Gerhard had mentioned with the help of the virtual CD
ROM I have got the drive for the system.It has so many files.I tried to
install through set up with the option SIMPLE .Now perhaps hercules ,mvs
etc are installed.Do I need to install anything else separately?How can
I get the RPF panel and how can I start with JCL,COBOL and Assembler?I
am able to see only the command prompt of the hercules version 2.16.5
installed through this process?What else can I do further?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Gerhard Postpischil]

amit.arora275 wrote:

> I am finally successful in downloading the mvs turnkey system
> from the site and as dear Gerhard had mentioned with the help
> of the virtual CD ROM I have got the drive for the system.It
> has so many files.I tried to install through set up with the
> option SIMPLE .Now perhaps hercules ,mvs etc are installed.Do
> I need to install anything else separately?How can I get the
> RPF panel and how can I start with JCL,COBOL and Assembler?I
> am able to see only the command prompt of the hercules
> version 2.16.5 installed through this process?What else can I
> do further?

The CD image, and Volker's web site, contain documentation on
how the MVS system was generated, what utilities Volker added,
sample JCL for some jobs, and (some) MVS operating instructions.
However, for real understanding you should try to get some
books. IBM's User Guides are available on-line (try www.ibm.com
and follow links for products, services, and documentation), but
are for more advanced copies of the products. Some manuals are
also available on the web (e.g., amazon.com, ebay.com), but I
don't know how long it would take to ship these to you, or how
reliable the shipping is (I bought stuff from ebay.de, and their
first shipment never made it, and the second was missing one
volume).

When you get the Hercules prompt, start the batch file
(starterm.bat) for your 3270 terminals (the CD install should
have prompted you for the number of consoles and TSO sessions,
and will generate that many c3270 sessions; however, most of us
use other software, such as BlueZone, QW3270, and Tom Brennan's
Vista). After your 3270 sessions are started (they should show a
Hercules logo), issue the Hercules command IPL 148 and wait for
the system to quiesce. On the console screen you should now see
"SPECIFY IPL PARAMETERS", respond on that console with R 00,CLPA
After a while things will start running, until the console is
full of messages; then hit PFK 11, then PFK 12 to allow messages
to scroll off the screen. A little later you will see a TSO logo
on the remaining CRT sessions. Log onto one by typing HERC01.
You now have a TSO session; hit ENTER until you see a READY
message, then type RPF and you will get an old version of RPF
(the CD image dates to 2002). As soon as you can, download and
install updated versions of RPF, RECV370, and IND$FILE. RPF will
allow you to create, edit, and submit jobs. You can look at the
output on-line (if HELD), or in a print file, or on a printer.
You'll also need to clear jobs out of the system frequently,
because the available (SPOOL) space is very small. Use
$PS1-9999, $PT1-9999 to get rid of unprinted output from start
jobs and TSO sessions; $PJ1-9999 will get rid of all unprinted
jobs you submitted, so may not be desirable.

You may submit JCL to run assemblies, as well as ForTran and
CoBOL compiles. Samples are included in several PC files on the
CD image. But running and using the system are fairly complex,
and you really should read the supplied documentation first. It
may not make sense the first few times you read it, but
eventually you should be able to manage. Once you have specific
questions, you'll get more specific answers.


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

[Dave Wade]

There is quite a bit of documention on www.bitsavers.org. Don't overlook
the http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/os/tso/ folder as whilst I
havn't personally used them I am pretty sure most of the stuff in there
is relevant to MVS3.8J. I can't find any relevant Cobols manuals which
should be in there as the Cobol is from pre-MVS days. The relevant
Assembler manual is I think in the VM folder under 370. (Assembler XF).

You can often find copies of older assembler books e.g.:-

Assembler Language Programming The IBM System/360 and 370; 2nd edition;

by George Struble on the Amazon associates for a few dollars/punds/euros
and that contains some info on the JCL needed as well....

Gerhard Postpischil wrote:

> amit.arora275 wrote:
>> I am finally successful in downloading the mvs turnkey system
>> from the site and as dear Gerhard had mentioned with the help
>> of the virtual CD ROM I have got the drive for the system.It
>> has so many files.I tried to install through set up with the
>> option SIMPLE .Now perhaps hercules ,mvs etc are installed.Do
>> I need to install anything else separately?How can I get the
>> RPF panel and how can I start with JCL,COBOL and Assembler?I
>> am able to see only the command prompt of the hercules
>> version 2.16.5 installed through this process?What else can I
>> do further?
>
> The CD image, and Volker's web site, contain documentation on
> how the MVS system was generated, what utilities Volker added,
> sample JCL for some jobs, and (some) MVS operating instructions.
> However, for real understanding you should try to get some
> books. IBM's User Guides are available on-line (try www.ibm.com
> and follow links for products, services, and documentation), but
> are for more advanced copies of the products. Some manuals are
> also available on the web (e.g., amazon.com, ebay.com), but I
> don't know how long it would take to ship these to you, or how
> reliable the shipping is (I bought stuff from ebay.de, and their
> first shipment never made it, and the second was missing one
> volume).
>
> When you get the Hercules prompt, start the batch file
> (starterm.bat) for your 3270 terminals (the CD install should
> have prompted you for the number of consoles and TSO sessions,
> and will generate that many c3270 sessions; however, most of us
> use other software, such as BlueZone, QW3270, and Tom Brennan's
> Vista). After your 3270 sessions are started (they should show a
> Hercules logo), issue the Hercules command IPL 148 and wait for
> the system to quiesce. On the console screen you should now see
> "SPECIFY IPL PARAMETERS", respond on that console with R 00,CLPA
> After a while things will start running, until the console is
> full of messages; then hit PFK 11, then PFK 12 to allow messages
> to scroll off the screen. A little later you will see a TSO logo
> on the remaining CRT sessions. Log onto one by typing HERC01.
> You now have a TSO session; hit ENTER until you see a READY
> message, then type RPF and you will get an old version of RPF
> (the CD image dates to 2002). As soon as you can, download and
> install updated versions of RPF, RECV370, and IND$FILE. RPF will
> allow you to create, edit, and submit jobs. You can look at the
> output on-line (if HELD), or in a print file, or on a printer.
> You'll also need to clear jobs out of the system frequently,
> because the available (SPOOL) space is very small. Use
> $PS1-9999, $PT1-9999 to get rid of unprinted output from start
> jobs and TSO sessions; $PJ1-9999 will get rid of all unprinted
> jobs you submitted, so may not be desirable.
>
> You may submit JCL to run assemblies, as well as ForTran and
> CoBOL compiles. Samples are included in several PC files on the
> CD image. But running and using the system are fairly complex,
> and you really should read the supplied documentation first. It
> may not make sense the first few times you read it, but
> eventually you should be able to manage. Once you have specific
> questions, you'll get more specific answers.
>
>
> Gerhard Postpischil
> Bradford, VT
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: hercules-390@...
>   Subscribe:    hercules-390-subscribe@...
>   Unsubscribe:  hercules-390-unsubscribe@...
>   List owner:   hercules-390-owner@...
>
> Files and archives at:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
>
> Get the latest version of Hercules from:
>   http://www.hercules-390.org
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>