Inline queries not updating..

[Guy Heathcote]

Hi.  I'm currently in the initial stages of building a completely new SMW wiki, quite separate from what I've done before.  Anyway, I've come accross a problem with the new installation that I've not previously seen - it's certainly not affecting my other projects.

Basically, I'm finding that inline queries aren't picking up on when new pages are being added - they just continue to show whatever was previously there.  However, if I enter edit mode and save the query page, without actually changing anything, then the query does update itself correctly.  Is there something cache-related that needs to be sorted out?  

Guy

[Daniel Friesen]

Yes, that's likely due to a page cache.
Try going to the page and using ?action=purge to see if the same thing
happens.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire)
~Profile/Portfolio: http://nadir-seen-fire.com
-The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com)
--It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com)
--The ElectronicMe project (http://electronic-me.org)
-Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG)
--Animepedia (http://anime.wikia.com)
--Narutopedia (http://naruto.wikia.com)

Guy Heathcote wrote:

> Hi.  I'm currently in the initial stages of building a completely new SMW
> wiki, quite separate from what I've done before.  Anyway, I've come accross
> a problem with the new installation that I've not previously seen - it's
> certainly not affecting my other projects.
>
> Basically, I'm finding that inline queries aren't picking up on when new
> pages are being added - they just continue to show whatever was previously
> there.  However, if I enter edit mode and save the query page, without
> actually changing anything, then the query does update itself correctly.  Is
> there something cache-related that needs to be sorted out?  
>
> Guy
>  

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[Thomas Schandl]

Hi

I read this is a gernal mediawiki issue:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates#FAQ

Is there a way to empty the caches for all pages at once?
It can be cumbersome if you have to "null edit" at lot of pages

Best regards,
Thomas

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Daniel Friesen <dan_the_man@...> wrote:

Yes, that's likely due to a page cache.
Try going to the page and using ?action=purge to see if the same thing
happens.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire)
~Profile/Portfolio: http://nadir-seen-fire.com
-The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com)
--It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com)
--The ElectronicMe project (http://electronic-me.org)
-Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG)
--Animepedia (http://anime.wikia.com)
--Narutopedia (http://naruto.wikia.com)

Guy Heathcote wrote:
> Hi.  I'm currently in the initial stages of building a completely new SMW
> wiki, quite separate from what I've done before.  Anyway, I've come accross
> a problem with the new installation that I've not previously seen - it's
> certainly not affecting my other projects.
>
> Basically, I'm finding that inline queries aren't picking up on when new
> pages are being added - they just continue to show whatever was previously
> there.  However, if I enter edit mode and save the query page, without
> actually changing anything, then the query does update itself correctly.  Is
> there something cache-related that needs to be sorted out?
>
> Guy
>


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[Patrick Nagel]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

Thomas Schandl wrote:
> I read this is a gernal mediawiki issue:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:A_quick_guide_to_templates#FAQ
>
> Is there a way to empty the caches for all pages at once?
> It can be cumbersome if you have to "null edit" at lot of pages

Did you read [1]?

Patrick.

[1]: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Repairing_SMW%27s_data

- --
Key ID: 0x86E346D4            http://patrick-nagel.net/key.asc
Fingerprint: 7745 E1BE FA8B FBAD 76AB 2BFC C981 E686 86E3 46D4
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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OYMAoJDEs2zSkMOI91WgUKZdp5KT6xj3
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[Thomas Schandl]

Hi Patrick,

Did you read [1]?

Patrick.

[1]: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Repairing_SMW%27s_data 

 Very cool, gotta try that, thanks!

Bye,
Thomas

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[Guy Heathcote]

Guy Heathcote wrote:

Hi.  I'm currently in the initial stages of building a completely new SMW wiki, quite separate from what I've done before.  Anyway, I've come accross a problem with the new installation that I've not previously seen - it's certainly not affecting my other projects.

Basically, I'm finding that inline queries aren't picking up on when new pages are being added - they just continue to show whatever was previously there.  However, if I enter edit mode and save the query page, without actually changing anything, then the query does update itself correctly.  Is there something cache-related that needs to be sorted out?  

Guy

Hi again,

Thanks for your suggestions so far.  However, I'm still struggling to solve this one, but do have some more information.

Firstly, the problem is occuring both on the creation of new pages and the editing of existing ones.  It happens using the default namespace and also on namespaces that I've created.

I now suspect that the problem is not related to any local browser-based caching.  If I edit a record on one machine, save it, then attempt to view that record via an in-line report using a new login on a different machine, the update still doesn't appear.  If I null-edit the report page on the initial machine, then the changes appear on all machines, without any further effort beyond refreshing the page, when necessary.

The pages that I'm editing all use forms, via the one-step method of page naming.  However, I have tried some separate tests using no forms or semantic content (just categories) and the same problem is occuring.  

One last observation is that Special:Semantic Search is showing the correct result straight away, even when the in-line query is continuing to show the pre-edit state.  


Guy



 

[Guy Heathcote]

Meh, this is still happening and I haven't a clue where to start.  I've used two other SMW wikis without ever seeing this problem, but this is affecting all queries in my new wiki and is effectively making the project unusable.  

I've tried using the RefreshData tool without any success (on this occasion...it's been useful in other situations in the past).  The "?action=purge" suggestion I'm a little unsure of - just adding that to the URL didn't seem to achieve any useful result, so was I supposed to use it in some other way?  Even if this did work, why would it be necessary when I've never needed it elsewhere?  I can't help but wonder whether there's something more fundamental at fault.


Guy

[Denny Vrandecic]

Hmm, I am wondering what is going on. Your store seems OK, but there is
some trouble with the caching going on...

Did you try to disable some of MediaWiki's caches?

Add the following to your local settings:

$wgEnableParserCache = false;
$wgCachePages = false;

This will certainly slow down your wiki a bit, but it may help you with
the stated problems.

I am curious to know if it did help.
Cheers,
denny

Guy Heathcote wrote:

> Meh, this is still happening and I haven't a clue where to start.  I've used
> two other SMW wikis without ever seeing this problem, but this is affecting
> all queries in my new wiki and is effectively making the project unusable.  
>
> I've tried using the RefreshData tool without any success (on this
> occasion...it's been useful in other situations in the past).  The
> "?action=purge" suggestion I'm a little unsure of - just adding that to the
> URL didn't seem to achieve any useful result, so was I supposed to use it in
> some other way?  Even if this did work, why would it be necessary when I've
> never needed it elsewhere?  I can't help but wonder whether there's
> something more fundamental at fault.
>
>
> Guy
>
>
>

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[Denny Vrandecic]

Hi Guy,

I am happy switching off the cache resolved the problem. I am still
confused the ?action=purge did not help, since this should basically
just clean up the cache... I am interested if someone can reproduce that
problem.

Your question about disabling the cache: it depends on your wiki if it
is a good idea. It slows down the wiki to have the cache disabled, sure,
but for most wikis this is not a problem. The issue is less the number
of pages that you have but rather the number of simultaneous users. Even
a very big wiki that does not have many users (like, less than one hit
each few seconds) should remain responsive enough.

All in all, it is a bit of an experiment (but the only risk is that the
wiki may slow down when it is hit hard or when you have a page with lots
of hard queries). We would actually be interested in knowing when that
happens...

Best,
denny




Guy Heathcote wrote:

> Hi Denny,
>
> Thanks for the suggestion.  I've updated LocalSettings as directed and it does appear to have solved the problem.  This is definitely a big relief for me, as I've an important demonstration to give and really needed the tool to be behaving itself.
>
> In the longer term, though, is disabling the cache like this a good idea?  What will be the consequences when the wiki contains a lot of pages?
>
> Anyhow, thanks once again.  :0)
>
>
> Guy Heathcote
> Ordnance Survey (UK)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Denny Vrandečić [mailto:dvr@...]
> Sent: 30 September 2008 15:17
> To: Guy Heathcote
> Cc: semediawiki-user@...
> Subject: Re: [Semediawiki-user] Inline queries not updating..
>
> Hmm, I am wondering what is going on. Your store seems OK, but there is
> some trouble with the caching going on...
>
> Did you try to disable some of MediaWiki's caches?
>
> Add the following to your local settings:
>
> $wgEnableParserCache = false;
> $wgCachePages = false;
>
> This will certainly slow down your wiki a bit, but it may help you with
> the stated problems.
>
> I am curious to know if it did help.
> Cheers,
> denny
>
> Guy Heathcote wrote:
>> Meh, this is still happening and I haven't a clue where to start.  I've used
>> two other SMW wikis without ever seeing this problem, but this is affecting
>> all queries in my new wiki and is effectively making the project unusable.  
>>
>> I've tried using the RefreshData tool without any success (on this
>> occasion...it's been useful in other situations in the past).  The
>> "?action=purge" suggestion I'm a little unsure of - just adding that to the
>> URL didn't seem to achieve any useful result, so was I supposed to use it in
>> some other way?  Even if this did work, why would it be necessary when I've
>> never needed it elsewhere?  I can't help but wonder whether there's
>> something more fundamental at fault.
>>
>>
>> Guy
>>
>>
>>
> .
>
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[Guy Heathcote]

Denny Vrandečić-3 wrote:

Hi Guy,

I am happy switching off the cache resolved the problem. I am still
confused the ?action=purge did not help, since this should basically
just clean up the cache... I am interested if someone can reproduce that
problem.

Your question about disabling the cache: it depends on your wiki if it
is a good idea. It slows down the wiki to have the cache disabled, sure,
but for most wikis this is not a problem. The issue is less the number
of pages that you have but rather the number of simultaneous users. Even
a very big wiki that does not have many users (like, less than one hit
each few seconds) should remain responsive enough.

All in all, it is a bit of an experiment (but the only risk is that the
wiki may slow down when it is hit hard or when you have a page with lots
of hard queries). We would actually be interested in knowing when that
happens...

Best,
denny

Many thanks for that, Denny.  The wiki that's exibiting the problem is a new demo/development environment available only to a few people within our organisation.  It's unlikely that this particular environment will ever be subject to frequent use.  However, I'll leave the cache disabled and will certainly inform you if I notice anything unusual.  If this particular project receives approval (this is all quite separate from the SMW wiki I've been using for months), then it will be ported to a new, externally facing, environment that may well receive rather heavier usage.  If this happens, it'll be interesting if the problem reproduces itself.

The ?action=purge thing leaves be confused.  I have now managed to get it to work once (so I now know what to expect), yet usually nothing happens still.  

Guy

[fabrice.mercier1]

It works for me I am using mediawiki1.13 and the last semantic mediawiki released at this date.
Without these variables my mediawiki did not refresh inline quiery results.

Thanks !

Denny Vrandečić-3 wrote:

Hmm, I am wondering what is going on. Your store seems OK, but there is
some trouble with the caching going on...

Did you try to disable some of MediaWiki's caches?

Add the following to your local settings:

$wgEnableParserCache = false;
$wgCachePages = false;

This will certainly slow down your wiki a bit, but it may help you with
the stated problems.

I am curious to know if it did help.
Cheers,
denny

Guy Heathcote wrote:
> Meh, this is still happening and I haven't a clue where to start.  I've used
> two other SMW wikis without ever seeing this problem, but this is affecting
> all queries in my new wiki and is effectively making the project unusable.  
>
> I've tried using the RefreshData tool without any success (on this
> occasion...it's been useful in other situations in the past).  The
> "?action=purge" suggestion I'm a little unsure of - just adding that to the
> URL didn't seem to achieve any useful result, so was I supposed to use it in
> some other way?  Even if this did work, why would it be necessary when I've
> never needed it elsewhere?  I can't help but wonder whether there's
> something more fundamental at fault.
>
>
> Guy
>
>
>

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[DGennaro]

I was having the same problem. Instead of disabling the cache for the entire wiki you can use the Magic NoCache extension found here: Extension:MagicNoCache

This enables you to enter the magic word: __NOCACHE__ and that will diable the cache just for that page. That will solve your problem.

DGennaro

Guy Heathcote wrote:

Hi.  I'm currently in the initial stages of building a completely new SMW wiki, quite separate from what I've done before.  Anyway, I've come accross a problem with the new installation that I've not previously seen - it's certainly not affecting my other projects.

Basically, I'm finding that inline queries aren't picking up on when new pages are being added - they just continue to show whatever was previously there.  However, if I enter edit mode and save the query page, without actually changing anything, then the query does update itself correctly.  Is there something cache-related that needs to be sorted out?  

Guy