Install difficulties

[Jeff_1981]

Hi all,

Actually installing on sd0 the last 4.5 resulted in sd1 and sd2 boot
sectors to be modified and not able to boot their own system anymore,
while I only wanted to install openbsd and its boot on sd0.

Is this normal ? How is handled the boot manager install, where is it
installed by default in case of more than one HDD ?

[neal hogan-3]

On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 11:56:56PM +0200, jean-francois wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Actually installing on sd0 the last 4.5 resulted in sd1 and sd2 boot
> sectors to be modified and not able to boot their own system anymore,
> while I only wanted to install openbsd and its boot on sd0.
>
> Is this normal ? How is handled the boot manager install, where is it
> installed by default in case of more than one HDD ?

You will most definitely get asked whether you've read the install docs and if so, what specifiaclly is troubling.

[Jeff_1981]

I installed the very standard procedure 'all disc' on 'sd1'

then when with the bios I start on the sd1, windows says 'no os' and on
sd2 the grub has disapeared too (I used to have sd0 free, sd1 win, sd2
linux).

Therefore I don'nt understand why installing openbsd on sd0 has changed
anything on the MBR of other disks ?

Le jeudi 09 juillet 2009 C  08:03 +0200, Jan Stary a C)crit :

> On Jul 08 23:56:56, jean-francois wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Actually installing on sd0 the last 4.5 resulted in sd1 and sd2 boot
> > sectors to be modified and not able to boot their own system anymore,
>
> How do you know? What exactly did you do,
> and what exactly happened?
>
> > while I only wanted to install openbsd and its boot on sd0.
> > Is this normal ? How is handled the boot manager install
>
> Simply: there is no boot manager.
>
> > where is it installed by default in case of more than one HDD ?
>
> 'it' is installed exactly where you tell the install script to install it.

[Jan Stary]

> > On Jul 08 23:56:56, jean-francois wrote:
> > > Actually installing on sd0 the last 4.5 resulted in sd1 and sd2 boot
> > > sectors to be modified and not able to boot their own system anymore,

On Jul 09 08:40:55, jean-francois wrote:
> I installed the very standard procedure 'all disc' on 'sd1'

Which one is it then?

[Eric Furman-3]

This is the best advice you will get.
Don't try duel booting until you know what you are doing.
And I'm not trying to be a smartass.


----- Original message -----
From: "jean-francois" <jfsimon1981@...>
To: "Jan Stary" <hans@...>, misc@...
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:40:55 +0200
Subject: Re: Install difficulties

I installed the very standard procedure 'all disc' on 'sd1'

then when with the bios I start on the sd1, windows says 'no os' and on
sd2 the grub has disapeared too (I used to have sd0 free, sd1 win, sd2
linux).

Therefore I don'nt understand why installing openbsd on sd0 has changed
anything on the MBR of other disks ?

Le jeudi 09 juillet 2009 C  08:03 +0200, Jan Stary a C)crit :

> On Jul 08 23:56:56, jean-francois wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Actually installing on sd0 the last 4.5 resulted in sd1 and sd2 boot
> > sectors to be modified and not able to boot their own system anymore,
>
> How do you know? What exactly did you do,
> and what exactly happened?
>
> > while I only wanted to install openbsd and its boot on sd0.
> > Is this normal ? How is handled the boot manager install
>
> Simply: there is no boot manager.
>
> > where is it installed by default in case of more than one HDD ?
>
> 'it' is installed exactly where you tell the install script to install it.

[Richard Toohey]

On 9/07/2009, at 7:41 PM, Eric Furman wrote:

> This is the best advice you will get.
> Don't try duel booting until you know what you are doing.
> And I'm not trying to be a smartass.

duel[sic] booting - someone will end up getting shot!  8-)

[Jeff_1981]

Sorry, I mean, I installed on SD0 using "all disk space".
I am not sure the MBR has been modified, I have to look further what was
modified, however the other disks do not boot anymore.
Windows (sd1) starts and crashes during the load.
Ubuntu (sd2) says "no os" ?

I hope that other disks were not erased, since I only wanted to installed on
sd0.

FYI sd1 and sd2 had their own boot manager and OS, they were so to say
"stand alone" disks, choice of starting was made during the bios start,
selecting at this moment which disk will be booted up.

Thanks
BR
JF

2009/7/9 Richard Toohey <richardtoohey@...>

> On 9/07/2009, at 7:41 PM, Eric Furman wrote:
>
>  This is the best advice you will get.
>> Don't try duel booting until you know what you are doing.
>> And I'm not trying to be a smartass.
>>
>
> duel[sic] booting - someone will end up getting shot!  8-)

[Jeff_1981]

Something has been changed which prevent sd1 and sd2 to start however no
data loss.

I don't understand, I have launched install on sd0 ?

Le jeudi 09 juillet 2009 C  11:29 +0200, Jean-FranC'ois SIMON a C)crit :

> Sorry, I mean, I installed on SD0 using "all disk space".
> I am not sure the MBR has been modified, I have to look further what
> was modified, however the other disks do not boot anymore.
> Windows (sd1) starts and crashes during the load.
> Ubuntu (sd2) says "no os" ?
>
> I hope that other disks were not erased, since I only wanted to
> installed on sd0.
>
> FYI sd1 and sd2 had their own boot manager and OS, they were so to say
> "stand alone" disks, choice of starting was made during the bios
> start, selecting at this moment which disk will be booted up.
>
> Thanks
> BR
> JF
>
> 2009/7/9 Richard Toohey <richardtoohey@...>
>         On 9/07/2009, at 7:41 PM, Eric Furman wrote:
>        
>                 This is the best advice you will get.
>                 Don't try duel booting until you know what you are
>                 doing.
>                 And I'm not trying to be a smartass.
>        
>        
>         duel[sic] booting - someone will end up getting shot!  8-)

[Nido]

2009/7/9, jean-francois <jfsimon1981@...>:
> Something has been changed which prevent sd1 and sd2 to start however no
> data loss.
>
> I don't understand, I have launched install on sd0 ?

I suspect you had the bootloader on sd0 originally. I suggest you
install a new one and configure it appropriately.

Afaik the windows boot program is installed at the start of the
partition. Grub is installed somewhere on the disk as well. In both
cases the MBR of the boot drive effectively leads the bootloader from
elsewhere into memory and jumps. Both systems are fine, but neither
has a pointer from the booted mbr.

> Le jeudi 09 juillet 2009 C  11:29 +0200, Jean-FranC'ois SIMON a C)crit :
>> Sorry, I mean, I installed on SD0 using "all disk space".
>> I am not sure the MBR has been modified, I have to look further what
>> was modified, however the other disks do not boot anymore.
>> Windows (sd1) starts and crashes during the load.
>> Ubuntu (sd2) says "no os" ?
>>
>> I hope that other disks were not erased, since I only wanted to
>> installed on sd0.
>>
>> FYI sd1 and sd2 had their own boot manager and OS, they were so to say
>> "stand alone" disks, choice of starting was made during the bios
>> start, selecting at this moment which disk will be booted up.
>>
>> Thanks
>> BR
>> JF
>>
>> 2009/7/9 Richard Toohey <richardtoohey@...>
>>         On 9/07/2009, at 7:41 PM, Eric Furman wrote:
>>
>>                 This is the best advice you will get.
>>                 Don't try duel booting until you know what you are
>>                 doing.
>>                 And I'm not trying to be a smartass.
>>
>>
>>         duel[sic] booting - someone will end up getting shot!  8-)

[Theo de Raadt]

> Therefore I don'nt understand why installing openbsd on sd0 has changed
> anything on the MBR of other disks ?

The installer does not touch the other disks.

[Jeff_1981]

I remember that I used to start install procedure on each disk answering
yes to 'all disk should be used for this install', then I just checked
the size of the disk in the disklabel, in order to identify the one I
was look for and then quit & reboot without more modifications (p at
disklabel then q and halt).

After this the two disks sdb/sdc that were hosting win and linux did not
boot anymore.

Could you tell me if doing so has modified in any way the partitions or
mbr ?

Thank you

Le jeudi 09 juillet 2009 C  10:45 -0600, Theo de Raadt a C)crit :
> > Therefore I don'nt understand why installing openbsd on sd0 has changed
> > anything on the MBR of other disks ?
>
> The installer does not touch the other disks.

[Anathae Townsend]

read the install documentation.

since you don't seem to be able to, here goes.

when you install an operating system to a computer the majority
of them will store a boot record on the MBR (master boot record,
go figure) of the drive used by the BIOS to boot the system.

I'm guessing that SD0 is your primary hard drive, the one used
to boot the system. installing openbsd changed the MBR. if you
want to be able to boot multiple operating systems, read up on
that.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-misc@... [mailto:owner-misc@...] On Behalf
> Of jean-francois
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:56 AM
> To: Theo de Raadt; misc@...
> Subject: Re: Install difficulties
>
> I remember that I used to start install procedure on each disk
> answering
> yes to 'all disk should be used for this install', then I just checked
> the size of the disk in the disklabel, in order to identify the one I
> was look for and then quit & reboot without more modifications (p at
> disklabel then q and halt).
>
> After this the two disks sdb/sdc that were hosting win and linux did
> not
> boot anymore.
>
> Could you tell me if doing so has modified in any way the partitions or
> mbr ?
>
> Thank you

[Jeff_1981]

I finally saw that in the very first steps of the install procedure, the
type of partition ID of assigned install disk is set to A6 overwriting from
the original value (in my case for NTFS this is 0x86 I assume) preventing to
boot what was the original system on that disk.
Changing to the original value the disk ID repaired this.

However this is only side effect since my original problem is in getting
openbsd working.

OpenbBSD crashes at the first boot.
Could one help with how to get the crash infos out of the console (ps trace)
; is the only way to copy on paper then write in an email or is there a way
to copy this one way or another ?

2009/7/9 jean-francois <jfsimon1981@...>

> I remember that I used to start install procedure on each disk answering
> yes to 'all disk should be used for this install', then I just checked
> the size of the disk in the disklabel, in order to identify the one I
> was look for and then quit & reboot without more modifications (p at
> disklabel then q and halt).
>
> After this the two disks sdb/sdc that were hosting win and linux did not
> boot anymore.
>
> Could you tell me if doing so has modified in any way the partitions or
> mbr ?
>
> Thank you
>
> Le jeudi 09 juillet 2009 ` 10:45 -0600, Theo de Raadt a icrit :
> > > Therefore I don'nt understand why installing openbsd on sd0 has changed
> > > anything on the MBR of other disks ?
> >
> > The installer does not touch the other disks.

[Jeff_1981]

Hi,

That's a misunderstanding.

1) I have a problem to install OpenBSD on sda since this crashes at first
boot.
2) I had troubles with sdb and sdc but now I understood that I did a mistake
(*) but this is solved now.

So yes I am able to read and understand documentation, things are not so
easy, however thanks for dwelving into this explanations.

<* in the first time I did not know which disk of sda/b/c was the one I was
looking for to install openbsd, so knowing my disks from their size, I used
to start the install procedure until the disklabel. At this moment, I just
printed out the size of the disk.
After 3 checks I had the right disk which was sda. I tried to install
OpenBSD on it but this crashes at first boot, like I explained.
The other 2 disks did not boot (they have their own mbr/boot loader, sdb
being starting windows and sdc Ubuntu, choice made at bios this this one let
me choose booting different disks.
At this time other disks did not boot because the earlier steps modified the
ID of the partition to A6 which corresponds to OpenBSD.
I have now set the ID of the NTFS partition to 86 and the disk boot again
(and I reinstalled Ubuntu on sdc).
>

2009/7/9 Anathae Townsend <atownsend@...>

> read the install documentation.
>
> since you don't seem to be able to, here goes.
>
> when you install an operating system to a computer the majority
> of them will store a boot record on the MBR (master boot record,
> go figure) of the drive used by the BIOS to boot the system.
>
> I'm guessing that SD0 is your primary hard drive, the one used
> to boot the system. installing openbsd changed the MBR. if you
> want to be able to boot multiple operating systems, read up on
> that.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-misc@... [mailto:owner-misc@...] On Behalf
> > Of jean-francois
> > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:56 AM
> > To: Theo de Raadt; misc@...
> > Subject: Re: Install difficulties
> >
> > I remember that I used to start install procedure on each disk
> > answering
> > yes to 'all disk should be used for this install', then I just checked
> > the size of the disk in the disklabel, in order to identify the one I
> > was look for and then quit & reboot without more modifications (p at
> > disklabel then q and halt).
> >
> > After this the two disks sdb/sdc that were hosting win and linux did
> > not
> > boot anymore.
> >
> > Could you tell me if doing so has modified in any way the partitions or
> > mbr ?
> >
> > Thank you

[Anathae Townsend]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-misc@... [mailto:owner-misc@...] On Behalf
> Of Anathae Townsend
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:02 PM
> To: jfsimon1981@...; misc@...
> Subject: Re: Install difficulties
>
> read the install documentation.
>
> since you don't seem to be able to, here goes.
>
> when you install an operating system to a computer the majority
> of them will store a boot record on the MBR (master boot record,
> go figure) of the drive used by the BIOS to boot the system.
>
> I'm guessing that SD0 is your primary hard drive, the one used
> to boot the system. installing openbsd changed the MBR. if you
> want to be able to boot multiple operating systems, read up on
> that.

if you installed an os to a second and third drive, the boot code
was still written to the first drive, so guess what, the boot
code for your other two operating systems were on the MBR of the
first drive, SD0.  again, read up on booting multiple operating
systems.

 

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-misc@... [mailto:owner-misc@...] On
> Behalf
> > Of jean-francois
> > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:56 AM
> > To: Theo de Raadt; misc@...
> > Subject: Re: Install difficulties
> >
> > I remember that I used to start install procedure on each disk
> > answering
> > yes to 'all disk should be used for this install', then I just
> checked
> > the size of the disk in the disklabel, in order to identify the one I
> > was look for and then quit & reboot without more modifications (p at
> > disklabel then q and halt).
> >
> > After this the two disks sdb/sdc that were hosting win and linux did
> > not
> > boot anymore.
> >
> > Could you tell me if doing so has modified in any way the partitions
> or
> > mbr ?
> >
> > Thank you

[Jeff_1981]

Anathae,

I hope to clarify this subject one last time :

This is not the way I installed the OSes in here.

I just removed the other disks when installing windows the mbr code is in
the very same disk that windows is (OpenBSD calls it sd1 and Linux sdb).

For sd2(sdc) the very same applies, I just choosed to install the mbr code
in sdc, not in anotherone.

Reason is I prefer to avoid dual boots, thus I actually have 3 hard disks
with independant mbr and I choose in the bios which disk is started.

As I said, this problem is solved, but OpenBSD, when installed on sd0, does
kernel panic at first boot.

2009/7/9 Anathae Townsend <atownsend@...>

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-misc@... [mailto:owner-misc@...] On Behalf
> > Of Anathae Townsend
> > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:02 PM
> > To: jfsimon1981@...; misc@...
> > Subject: Re: Install difficulties
> >
> > read the install documentation.
> >
> > since you don't seem to be able to, here goes.
> >
> > when you install an operating system to a computer the majority
> > of them will store a boot record on the MBR (master boot record,
> > go figure) of the drive used by the BIOS to boot the system.
> >
> > I'm guessing that SD0 is your primary hard drive, the one used
> > to boot the system. installing openbsd changed the MBR. if you
> > want to be able to boot multiple operating systems, read up on
> > that.
>
> if you installed an os to a second and third drive, the boot code
> was still written to the first drive, so guess what, the boot
> code for your other two operating systems were on the MBR of the
> first drive, SD0.  again, read up on booting multiple operating
> systems.
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-misc@... [mailto:owner-misc@...] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of jean-francois
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:56 AM
> > > To: Theo de Raadt; misc@...
> > > Subject: Re: Install difficulties
> > >
> > > I remember that I used to start install procedure on each disk
> > > answering
> > > yes to 'all disk should be used for this install', then I just
> > checked
> > > the size of the disk in the disklabel, in order to identify the one I
> > > was look for and then quit & reboot without more modifications (p at
> > > disklabel then q and halt).
> > >
> > > After this the two disks sdb/sdc that were hosting win and linux did
> > > not
> > > boot anymore.
> > >
> > > Could you tell me if doing so has modified in any way the partitions
> > or
> > > mbr ?
> > >
> > > Thank you

[Thomas Pfaff-5]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 21:02:37 +0200
Jean-Frangois SIMON <jfsimon1981@...> wrote:
> OpenbBSD crashes at the first boot.
> Could one help with how to get the crash infos out of the console (ps
trace)
> ; is the only way to copy on paper then write in an email or is there a way
> to copy this one way or another ?

A serial console or pictures (put somewhere on the net).

http://www.openbsd.org/report.html