Installation of zVM 5.3 Evaluation in to the Hercules.

[Kayhan]

Hi,

I want to install zVM 5.3  evalution  version in DVD  in to the  Hercules  3.06 on Windows XP.
Is it possible install from DVD?.
I read that What's new in release 3.06 session that Hercules 3.06 supports Integrated 3270 (SYSG) console support and HMC DVD-RAM read/write support.
But I don't know how can I install from DVD using Integrated 3270 (SYSG) and HMC DVD-RAM read/write support. 

Can you help me.
 
 
Iyi calismalar, Saygilar / Regards

Kayhan Tanriverir



     

[Dave Wade]

Kayhan Tanriverir wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I want to install zVM 5.3  evalution  version in DVD  in to the  
> Hercules  3.06 on Windows XP.
> Is it possible install from DVD?.
> I read that What's new in release 3.06 session that Hercules 3.06
> supports Integrated 3270 (SYSG) console support and HMC DVD-RAM
> read/write support.
> But I don't know how can I install from DVD using Integrated 3270 (SYSG)
> and HMC DVD-RAM read/write support.
>
> Can you help me.
>  

It needs more RAM than you can allocate to Hercules in 32bit windows...

>
>  
>
> Iyi calismalar, Saygilar / Regards
> **
>
> *Kayhan Tanriverir
> *
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Kayhan]

in z10 load process is starting from DVD in HMC. What will we use in Hercules? Which device will support instead of DVD ? will tape device? 
 
 
Iyi calismalar, Saygilar / Regards

Kayhan Tanriverir





________________________________
From: Dave Wade <g4ugm@...>
To: H390-VM@...
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:20:23 PM
Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Installation of zVM 5.3 Evaluation in to the Hercules.

 


Kayhan Tanriverir wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I want to install zVM 5.3 evalution version in DVD in to the
> Hercules 3.06 on Windows XP.
> Is it possible install from DVD?.
> I read that What's new in release 3.06 session that Hercules 3.06
> supports Integrated 3270 (SYSG) console support and HMC DVD-RAM
> read/write support.
> But I don't know how can I install from DVD using Integrated 3270 (SYSG)
> and HMC DVD-RAM read/write support.
>
> Can you help me.
>

It needs more RAM than you can allocate to Hercules in 32bit windows...

>
>
>
> Iyi calismalar, Saygilar / Regards
> **
>
> *Kayhan Tanriverir
> *
>
>
>
>
>
>

     

[Dave Wade]

See

 

http://www.hercules-390.org/hercinst.html#commands

 

and the IPL command..

 

Dave

G4UGM

 

-----Original Message-----
From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf Of
Kayhan Tanriverir
Sent: 14 September 2009 13:52
To: H390-VM@...
Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Installation of zVM 5.3 Evaluation in to the
Hercules.

 






in z10 load process is starting from DVD in HMC. What will we use in
Hercules? Which device will support instead of DVD ? will tape device?
 

 

Iyi calismalar, Saygilar / Regards

Kayhan Tanriverir

 

 

  _____  

From: Dave Wade <g4ugm@...>
To: H390-VM@...
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:20:23 PM
Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Installation of zVM 5.3 Evaluation in to the
Hercules.

 



Kayhan Tanriverir wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I want to install zVM 5.3 evalution version in DVD in to the
> Hercules 3.06 on Windows XP.
> Is it possible install from DVD?.
> I read that What's new in release 3.06 session that Hercules 3.06
> supports Integrated 3270 (SYSG) console support and HMC DVD-RAM
> read/write support.
> But I don't know how can I install from DVD using Integrated 3270 (SYSG)
> and HMC DVD-RAM read/write support.
>
> Can you help me.
>

It needs more RAM than you can allocate to Hercules in 32bit windows...

>
>
>
> Iyi calismalar, Saygilar / Regards
> **
>
> *Kayhan Tanriverir
> *
>
>
>
>
>
>

[George-111]

Can someone confirm or deny that this version is available for general
use? or is it considered a licensed product?

George

[Fran Hensler]

I can confirm that we paid a license fee to run it.  It is afterall a
successor to VM/SP which was not public domain.

/Fran Hensler at Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania USA for 46 years
    mailto:fjh@...  http://zvm.sru.edu/~fjh  +1.724.738.2153
              "Yes, Virginia, there is a Slippery Rock"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:31:58 -0400 George said:
>Can someone confirm or deny that this version is available for general
>use? or is it considered a licensed product?
>
>George
>

[Dave Wade]

I can't see why it should be freely available. From what I know it was
licensed like anything else. However I wonder if there is still some way to
get a license as it's the last VM to run on 370 hardware...

Dave
G4UGM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf
> Of George
> Sent: 16 September 2009 23:32
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: [H390-VM] VM/ESA (370 feature)
>
> Can someone confirm or deny that this version is available for general
> use? or is it considered a licensed product?
>
> George
>
>

[paoloG]

--- In H390-VM@..., "Dave Wade" <g4ugm@...> wrote:

>
> See
>
>  
>
> http://www.hercules-390.org/hercinst.html#commands
>
>  
>
> and the IPL command..
>
>  
>
> Dave
>
> G4UGM
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf Of
> Kayhan Tanriverir
> Sent: 14 September 2009 13:52
> To: H390-VM@...
> Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Installation of zVM 5.3 Evaluation in to the
> Hercules.
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
> in z10 load process is starting from DVD in HMC. What will we use in
> Hercules? Which device will support instead of DVD ? will tape device?
>  
>
>  
>
> Iyi calismalar, Saygilar / Regards
>
> Kayhan Tanriverir
>
>  
>
>  
>
>   _____  
>
> From: Dave Wade <g4ugm@...>
> To: H390-VM@...
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:20:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [H390-VM] Installation of zVM 5.3 Evaluation in to the
> Hercules.
>
>  
>
>
>
> Kayhan Tanriverir wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to install zVM 5.3 evalution version in DVD in to the
> > Hercules 3.06 on Windows XP.
> > Is it possible install from DVD?.
> > I read that What's new in release 3.06 session that Hercules 3.06
> > supports Integrated 3270 (SYSG) console support and HMC DVD-RAM
> > read/write support.
> > But I don't know how can I install from DVD using Integrated 3270 (SYSG)
> > and HMC DVD-RAM read/write support.
> >
> > Can you help me.
> >
>
> It needs more RAM than you can allocate to Hercules in 32bit windows...
>
> >

With Windows XP I could allocate max 1900 MB as Hercules mainsize; I used the option /3GB, that splits the 4GB virtual address space in 3 GB for user and 1 Gb for system; then I rebased (with editbin of Visual Studio) all the user DLL to the space over 2GB (0x80000000); I wasn't able to rebase the system DLL (USER32.DLL,KERNEL32.DLL etc.).
In any case I'd never could get a Hercules mainsize of 3072 as required.
So I installed Windows XP Professional X64 on an unused server (with a Pentium D and 3GB of physical RAM).
With Hercules 32 bit I had a full 4 GB user address space; yet the position of system DLL was the the same (just under 2 GB), so I couldn't get 3 GB of contiguous virtual storage.
Hercules for 64 bit (found in the snapshots of Ivan Warren) didn't work; after some research I found that the version reported in VC80.CRT.manifest didn't match the one embedded in Hercules.exe.
I modified the manifest file and I could start Hercules.
I put all Z-VM 5.3 Evaluation file in a directory; then IPL \Z-VM\ZVM.INS started VM.
The IPL sometimes (most of times) doesn't work and Hercules ends; so
I made a DDR of RAM DASD to a 3370 and now I can use it on a 32 bit system with 512 MB of Hercules Mainsize.

[paoloG]

--- In H390-VM@..., "Dave Wade" <g4ugm@...> wrote:

>
> I can't see why it should be freely available. From what I know it was
> licensed like anything else. However I wonder if there is still some way to
> get a license as it's the last VM to run on 370 hardware...
>
> Dave
> G4UGM
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf
> > Of George
> > Sent: 16 September 2009 23:32
> > To: H390-VM@...
> > Subject: [H390-VM] VM/ESA (370 feature)
> >
> > Can someone confirm or deny that this version is available for general
> > use? or is it considered a licensed product?
> >
> > George
> >
> >
>

I could try VM/ESA 2.40 on Hercules as a disaster recovery test for a friend of mine who owns a software house; I didn't like it too much as most of my old programs didn't work in 370 mode.
I never tried VM/ESA 1.1.0 but I suppose it's a sort of enhanced VM/SP
(the VM version I like best, perhaps because I worked on it for a good number of years).

I could as well test OS/390, Z/OS, Z/VM, VSE/ESA etc.

Of course I cancelled all those highly illegal operating systems as soon as I completed the disaster recovery test. :)
 
I think it should be fantastic to have a license for VM/SP... that shouldn't harm IBM in any way.

Regards.

[fish-8]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Been very busy you know...


paoloG wrote:

<CHOMP!>

Criminee, paoloG! Could you maybe learn to trim you posts?! Sheesh! :)


> With Windows XP I could allocate max 1900 MB as Hercules mainsize;
> I used the option /3GB, that splits the 4GB virtual address space
> in 3 GB for user and 1 Gb for system; then I rebased (with editbin
> of Visual Studio) all the user DLL to the space over 2GB (0x80000000);
> I wasn't able to rebase the system DLL (USER32.DLL,KERNEL32.DLL etc.).

Great! It's nice to see that some people are actually making use of the
information provided on my Maximizing Hercules Available Memory web page:
http://www.softdevlabs.com/Hercules/hercules-maxmem.html. Well done! :)


> In any case I'd never could get a Hercules mainsize of 3072 as required.

Yeah, that's the limitation of 32-bit Windows for you. Sucks, doesn't it?
:(


> So I installed Windows XP Professional X64 on an unused server (with
> a Pentium D and 3GB of physical RAM). With Hercules 32 bit I had a full
> 4 GB user address space;

Well.... TECHNICALLY, yeah, but methinks you need to go back and read my
Maximizing Hercules Available Memory web page again, because even though
*technically* 32-bit Windows provides a 4GB process address space, you will
NEVER be able to use anywhere close to the full 4GB.

But I'm sure you already knew that. (Just wanted to mention it again for
others' benefit)


> yet the position of system DLL was the the same (just under 2 GB),
> so I couldn't get 3 GB of contiguous virtual storage.

Ummm... Did you run the 64-bit version of Hercules or the 32-bit version?
Because if you simply tried running the 32-bit version then you wasted your
time. Even on 64-bit Windows you'll still only have a 32-bit address space
since you're running a 32-bit program. That's the Windows works. 32-bit
programs get an emulated 32-bit address space since they're 32-bit programs.

To obtain the full use of 64-bit Windows you need to run native 64-bit
programs. THEN your address space is a full 16 terabytes (although only 8
terabytes of that is user space; the other 8TB is reserved for kernel use):

   http://support.microsoft.com/kb/294418


> Hercules for 64 bit (found in the snapshots of Ivan Warren) didn't
> work;

Why not?


> after some research I found that the version reported in VC80.CRT.manifest
> didn't match the one embedded in Hercules.exe.

Ah. He probably hasn't had time to fix his MSVC build process yet. Give him
time and I'm sure he will. [*]


> I modified the manifest file and I could start Hercules. I put all
> Z-VM 5.3 Evaluation file in a directory; then IPL \Z-VM\ZVM.INS
> started VM. The IPL sometimes (most of times) doesn't work and
> Hercules ends;

That's likely because you modified the manifest to force the program to run
with system support DLLs it wasn't designed for. You should NEVER do that.
You're playing with fire when you do that and you WILL get burned. Trust me.

Rather, you should simply install the correct runtime that the program
requires.


> so I made a DDR of RAM DASD to a 3370 and now I can use it
> on a 32 bit system with 512 MB of Hercules Mainsize.

Give one of Ivan's 64-bit snapshots created today a try to see if maybe he's
fixed things for you.

- --
"Fish" (David B. Trout) - fish@...
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! <http://www.cauce.org/>
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[*] He may have done it already! I haven't checked myself yet, but someone
on the main hercules-390 list just mentioned a short while ago that Ivan is
once again building daily SVN snapshots, so it might be worthwhile to try
again. Maybe he's fixed it?




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[paoloG]

--- In H390-VM@..., "Fish" <fish@...> wrote:

>
> > PaoloG wrote:
> > So I installed Windows XP Professional X64 on an unused server (with
> > a Pentium D and 3GB of physical RAM). With Hercules 32 bit I had a full
> > 4 GB user address space;
>
> Well.... TECHNICALLY, yeah, but methinks you need to go back and read my
> Maximizing Hercules Available Memory web page again, because even though
> *technically* 32-bit Windows provides a 4GB process address space, you will
> NEVER be able to use anywhere close to the full 4GB.
>
> But I'm sure you already knew that. (Just wanted to mention it again for
> others' benefit)
>
>
> > yet the position of system DLL was the the same (just under 2 GB),
> > so I couldn't get 3 GB of contiguous virtual storage.
>
> Ummm... Did you run the 64-bit version of Hercules or the 32-bit version?

As you can read I ran the 32-bit version :-)

> Because if you simply tried running the 32-bit version then you wasted your
> time. Even on 64-bit Windows you'll still only have a 32-bit address space
> since you're running a 32-bit program. That's the Windows works. 32-bit
> programs get an emulated 32-bit address space since they're 32-bit programs.
>
> To obtain the full use of 64-bit Windows you need to run native 64-bit
> programs. THEN your address space is a full 16 terabytes (although only 8
> terabytes of that is user space; the other 8TB is reserved for kernel use):
>
>    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/294418
>
>

Microsoft not always tells the (whole) truth...

In Windows XP x64:

with Hercules 32bit I have a 2GB user address space (as Microsoft tells us);

but...

using Hercules 32bit with LargeAddressAware I get a 4GB user address space (verified with VMMAP of Sysinternals), but system DLLS are still based just under the 2GB line; so I need to rebase system DLLs (is it possible?) to get the 3GB of contiguous virtual storage required to run z/VM Evaluation.

Here is the situation of available user space:

Windows 2K           : 2GB
Windows XP           : 2GB
Windows XP with /3GB : 3GB
Windows XP x64 - Hercules 32bit :2GB
Windows xp x64 - Hercules 32bit LargeAddressAware : 4GB
Windows Xp x64 - Hercules 64bit :8TB

You can ask: 'why did you run Hercules 32bit in Windows x64?'; the answer is:
1) for science's love
2) because initially I could'n run Hercules 64bit version :-)

Regards

[pfg504]

VM/ESA was the licensed product. The 370 component was a feature of the ESA product. CP was different between the two systems, but CMS was the same. CMS was bi-modal at that point. MVS was replacing MVT as the OS simulation.

It was like VM/SP with a new name and a new CMS. (And, new GCS).

Paul

--- In H390-VM@..., "paoloG" <crc@...> wrote:

>
> --- In H390-VM@..., "Dave Wade" <g4ugm@> wrote:
> >
> > I can't see why it should be freely available. From what I know it was
> > licensed like anything else. However I wonder if there is still some way to
> > get a license as it's the last VM to run on 370 hardware...
> >
> > Dave
> > G4UGM
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: H390-VM@... [mailto:H390-VM@...] On Behalf
> > > Of George
> > > Sent: 16 September 2009 23:32
> > > To: H390-VM@...
> > > Subject: [H390-VM] VM/ESA (370 feature)
> > >
> > > Can someone confirm or deny that this version is available for general
> > > use? or is it considered a licensed product?
> > >
> > > George
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> I could try VM/ESA 2.40 on Hercules as a disaster recovery test for a friend of mine who owns a software house; I didn't like it too much as most of my old programs didn't work in 370 mode.
> I never tried VM/ESA 1.1.0 but I suppose it's a sort of enhanced VM/SP
> (the VM version I like best, perhaps because I worked on it for a good number of years).
>
> I could as well test OS/390, Z/OS, Z/VM, VSE/ESA etc.
>
> Of course I cancelled all those highly illegal operating systems as soon as I completed the disaster recovery test. :)
>  
> I think it should be fantastic to have a license for VM/SP... that shouldn't harm IBM in any way.
>
> Regards.
>