Insteon AP question.

[George Farris-4]

I have a couple of Insteon Access Points and they seem to connect fine
but the data sheet says that the LED should come on steady after they
connect.  Mine blink all the time almost like there is an indication of
data.  Anyone know if this is correct?

George



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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 10:33:11AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> I have a couple of Insteon Access Points and they seem to connect fine
> but the data sheet says that the LED should come on steady after they
> connect.  Mine blink all the time almost like there is an indication of
> data.  Anyone know if this is correct?

Yeah, I think you can't quite trust what they say about LEDs. I have 4 APs
and mine blink too, exactly as traffic is going by.

I'm however a bit annoyed that even with 4 APs and filters in the right
places I still get out of sync KPL LEDs every so often (maybe one time out
of 30 toggles throughout the house overall)?
I'm starting to think that the KPLs don't retry much at all, or something
screwy is happening and I have no way to debug it because I can't even tell
if the KPLs are just at fault for not sending retries to other switches and
why with 4 APs the signal still doesn't seem to make it there the first
time.
If I get sufficiently annoyed, I could have mh monitor the status changes
and reset the LED status after the fact, just in case, but that's just a
fair amount of work to do right and extra traffic on the bus.

Strangely also once every other week or so my mh logs show a status request
from my every 15mn query all switches status, that after 6 retries (I upped
it in the code), I get no answer.

I guess the other option is just to accept that insteon is a 99% deal in
setups like mine.

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[George Farris-4]

On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 11:16 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 10:33:11AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> > I have a couple of Insteon Access Points and they seem to connect fine
> > but the data sheet says that the LED should come on steady after they
> > connect.  Mine blink all the time almost like there is an indication of
> > data.  Anyone know if this is correct?
>
> Yeah, I think you can't quite trust what they say about LEDs. I have 4 APs
> and mine blink too, exactly as traffic is going by.
>
> I'm however a bit annoyed that even with 4 APs and filters in the right
> places I still get out of sync KPL LEDs every so often (maybe one time out
> of 30 toggles throughout the house overall)?
> I'm starting to think that the KPLs don't retry much at all, or something
> screwy is happening and I have no way to debug it because I can't even tell
> if the KPLs are just at fault for not sending retries to other switches and
> why with 4 APs the signal still doesn't seem to make it there the first
> time.
> If I get sufficiently annoyed, I could have mh monitor the status changes
> and reset the LED status after the fact, just in case, but that's just a
> fair amount of work to do right and extra traffic on the bus.
>
> Strangely also once every other week or so my mh logs show a status request
> from my every 15mn query all switches status, that after 6 retries (I upped
> it in the code), I get no answer.
>
> I guess the other option is just to accept that insteon is a 99% deal in
> setups like mine.
>
> Marc

Hi Marc,

I'm tearing my hair out trying to get the KeypadLinc to work and sync
the light on the buttons.  Sometimes I have to push the button twice on
the keypad to get a light to turn on or off.  It's really hard trying to
get this stuff to work, but it seems simple:-)

Would you be willing to email me your mht file so I can have a look at
it.

If I have three devices for example:

lamp, PLM and Keypad

Did you have to manually sync your keypad button with both the PLM and
the lamp to get it to work?  Or does MH do all the linking for you?

I've tried so many things now I'm not sure anymore.

Thanks
George




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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:52:47AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> If I have three devices for example:
>
> lamp, PLM and Keypad
>
> Did you have to manually sync your keypad button with both the PLM and
> the lamp to get it to work?  Or does MH do all the linking for you?
 
I had to link everything explicitely in mh and sync all the links. For me it
yields a pretty big table.

http://marc.merlins.org/linux/insteon/insteon.mht
http://marc.merlins.org/linux/insteon/kpl_ties.txt

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[George Farris-4]

On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 12:20 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:52:47AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> > If I have three devices for example:
> >
> > lamp, PLM and Keypad
> >
> > Did you have to manually sync your keypad button with both the PLM and
> > the lamp to get it to work?  Or does MH do all the linking for you?
>  
> I had to link everything explicitely in mh and sync all the links. For me it
> yields a pretty big table.
>
> http://marc.merlins.org/linux/insteon/insteon.mht
> http://marc.merlins.org/linux/insteon/kpl_ties.txt
>
> Marc

Maybe my problem is using plm:01.  It seems you have a note in your file
saying 01 is reserved.

Also I didn't think with the scenes one had to have the ties in a perl
file but I guess you do.

I'll try again, many thanks Marc.

George



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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 03:32:40PM -0800, George Farris wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 12:20 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:52:47AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> > > If I have three devices for example:
> > >
> > > lamp, PLM and Keypad
> > >
> > > Did you have to manually sync your keypad button with both the PLM and
> > > the lamp to get it to work?  Or does MH do all the linking for you?
> >  
> > I had to link everything explicitely in mh and sync all the links. For me it
> > yields a pretty big table.
> >
> > http://marc.merlins.org/linux/insteon/insteon.mht
> > http://marc.merlins.org/linux/insteon/kpl_ties.txt
> >
> > Marc
>
> Maybe my problem is using plm:01.  It seems you have a note in your file
> saying 01 is reserved.
>
> Also I didn't think with the scenes one had to have the ties in a perl
> file but I guess you do.

My comments are sparse but if you look in the scenes explained wiki, the
ties are so that I can do mbr_kpl(ON) within mh and mh then knows to
activate the scene that tells all the relevant KPL leds to switch state too.

Without the tie, you have to replace all your code to start using the scene
instead of the device, which in some cases is kind of a pain (not counting
that it still wouldn't work if you switch devices via the web interface).

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[George Farris-4]

On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 12:20 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:52:47AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> > If I have three devices for example:
> >
> > lamp, PLM and Keypad
> >
> > Did you have to manually sync your keypad button with both the PLM and
> > the lamp to get it to work?  Or does MH do all the linking for you?
>  
> I had to link everything explicitely in mh and sync all the links. For me it
> yields a pretty big table.
>

Can I just do "scan all link tables" and then do "sync all links"?

George



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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 03:47:17PM -0800, George Farris wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 12:20 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:52:47AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> > > If I have three devices for example:
> > >
> > > lamp, PLM and Keypad
> > >
> > > Did you have to manually sync your keypad button with both the PLM and
> > > the lamp to get it to work?  Or does MH do all the linking for you?
> >  
> > I had to link everything explicitely in mh and sync all the links. For me it
> > yields a pretty big table.
> >
>
> Can I just do "scan all link tables" and then do "sync all links"?

That's what I did.

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[George Farris-4]

On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 15:52 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > >
> >
> > Can I just do "scan all link tables" and then do "sync all links"?
>

Okay this is what I have but it doesn't update the light on the
KeypadLinc.  If I turn it on remotely.

Any hints as to what I am doing wrong.  Many thanks in advance.

George




insteon.mht
---------------------------------------
# OutletLincs
IPLL,  0F.45.9F:01, carport_recpt, All_Lights|Outside|Christmas ,   plm

# 6 Button KeypadLinc, :02 not used
IPLL,  12.BD.CA:01, backdoorkp_light, All_Lights|Outside ,   plm
IPLL,  12.BD.CA:03, backdoorkp_button_A, buttons,   plm
IPLL,  12.BD.CA:04, backdoorkp_button_B, buttons,   plm
IPLL,  12.BD.CA:05, backdoorkp_button_C, buttons,   plm
IPLL,  12.BD.CA:06, backdoorkp_button_D, buttons,   plm

# Backdoor scene
IPLL, plm:10, backdoor_scene,  scenes, plm
SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoor_scene, ON
SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoorkp_button_A, 100%, 0.1s
SCENE_MEMBER, backdoorkp_button_A, carport_recpt



insteon.pl
-------------------------------------------------
$carport_recpt->tie_event('sync_kpl_lights($carport_recpt,
$backdoor_scene)'); # noloop

sub sync_kpl_lights
{
    my ($ref_light, $kpl_scene) = @_;
    if ($ref_light->state_changed) {
        print_log "MYLOGKPL: sync_kpl_lights called for state_changed on
".$ref_light->get_object_name." to ".$ref_light->state." for
".$kpl_scene->get_object_name." set kpls in 1sec";
        # delay is to avoid collisions
        $kpl_scene->set_with_timer('', 1, $ref_light->state);
    } else {
    }
}



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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:24:42AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 15:52 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Can I just do "scan all link tables" and then do "sync all links"?
> >
>
> Okay this is what I have but it doesn't update the light on the
> KeypadLinc.  If I turn it on remotely.
 
And by that you mean no matter how the light is turned on:
1) in software in mh
2) by pushing the main switch for the light
3) by pushing another switch that remotely controls the light.
 
> Any hints as to what I am doing wrong.  Many thanks in advance.

First, to make reading easier, I recommend you name things like this
backdoorp_kpl_backdoorp
backdoorp_kpl_butA
backdoorp_kpl_butB

etc..
Makes it easier to keep track of what is being linked to what when
you read the file and you have lots of devices and kpls.
Also, put some comments on what you're trying to accomplish. It'll
help making sense of it later.

But generally working on this always hurts my brain a bit :)
Ok, I just had to read
http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon+Devices+-+Quirks+and+Hints#toc3
again :)

> insteon.mht
> ---------------------------------------
> # OutletLincs
> IPLL,  0F.45.9F:01, carport_recpt, All_Lights|Outside|Christmas ,   plm
>
> # 6 Button KeypadLinc, :02 not used
> IPLL,  12.BD.CA:01, backdoorkp_light, All_Lights|Outside ,   plm
> IPLL,  12.BD.CA:03, backdoorkp_button_A, buttons,   plm
> IPLL,  12.BD.CA:04, backdoorkp_button_B, buttons,   plm
> IPLL,  12.BD.CA:05, backdoorkp_button_C, buttons,   plm
> IPLL,  12.BD.CA:06, backdoorkp_button_D, buttons,   plm

So far so good

 
> SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoorkp_button_A, 100%, 0.1s

this should indeed let you control the carport light from
button A on the KPL

> SCENE_MEMBER, backdoorkp_button_A, carport_recpt

I'm not familiar with outletlincs, but this looks ok.
You should dump the link tables and make sure that you have a
carport_recpt(controller1) in carport_recpt and
backdoorkp_button_A(receiver1) in backdoorkp_light (which I would call
backdoorp_kpl, or it gets confusing)

Since you have:
> # Backdoor scene
> IPLL, plm:10, backdoor_scene,  scenes, plm
> SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoor_scene, ON
I think you are missing
> SCENE_MEMBER, backdoorkp_button_A, backdoor_scene, ON
for that scene to be useful (you need to sync the scene back to the PLM fot
it to work).

This would explain why the tie below does not help switching
backdoorkp_button_A when you do backdoor_scene->set(ON).

but it does not explain why toggling carport_recpt doesn't toggle
backdoorkp_button_A.

Again, I'd dump the tables and see if you have the links you need.

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[George Farris-4]

On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 08:24 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:24:42AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> > On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 15:52 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can I just do "scan all link tables" and then do "sync all links"?
> > >
> >
> > Okay this is what I have but it doesn't update the light on the
> > KeypadLinc.  If I turn it on remotely.
>  
> And by that you mean no matter how the light is turned on:
> 1) in software in mh
> 2) by pushing the main switch for the light
> 3) by pushing another switch that remotely controls the light.
>  
> > Any hints as to what I am doing wrong.  Many thanks in advance.
>
> First, to make reading easier, I recommend you name things like this
> backdoorp_kpl_backdoorp
> backdoorp_kpl_butA
> backdoorp_kpl_butB
>
> etc..
> Makes it easier to keep track of what is being linked to what when
> you read the file and you have lots of devices and kpls.
> Also, put some comments on what you're trying to accomplish. It'll
> help making sense of it later.
>
> But generally working on this always hurts my brain a bit :)
> Ok, I just had to read
> http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon+Devices+-+Quirks+and+Hints#toc3
> again :)
>
> > insteon.mht
> > ---------------------------------------
> > # OutletLincs
> > IPLL,  0F.45.9F:01, carport_recpt, All_Lights|Outside|Christmas ,   plm
> >
> > # 6 Button KeypadLinc, :02 not used
> > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:01, backdoorkp_light, All_Lights|Outside ,   plm
> > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:03, backdoorkp_button_A, buttons,   plm
> > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:04, backdoorkp_button_B, buttons,   plm
> > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:05, backdoorkp_button_C, buttons,   plm
> > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:06, backdoorkp_button_D, buttons,   plm
>
> So far so good
>
>  
> > SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoorkp_button_A, 100%, 0.1s
>
> this should indeed let you control the carport light from
> button A on the KPL
>
> > SCENE_MEMBER, backdoorkp_button_A, carport_recpt
>
> I'm not familiar with outletlincs, but this looks ok.
> You should dump the link tables and make sure that you have a
> carport_recpt(controller1) in carport_recpt and
> backdoorkp_button_A(receiver1) in backdoorkp_light (which I would call
> backdoorp_kpl, or it gets confusing)
>
> Since you have:
> > # Backdoor scene
> > IPLL, plm:10, backdoor_scene,  scenes, plm
> > SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoor_scene, ON
> I think you are missing
> > SCENE_MEMBER, backdoorkp_button_A, backdoor_scene, ON
> for that scene to be useful (you need to sync the scene back to the PLM fot
> it to work).
>
> This would explain why the tie below does not help switching
> backdoorkp_button_A when you do backdoor_scene->set(ON).
>
> but it does not explain why toggling carport_recpt doesn't toggle
> backdoorkp_button_A.
>
> Again, I'd dump the tables and see if you have the links you need.
>
> Marc

These are the links I have:

11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to
$carport_recpt(01) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] cntlr(10) record to $carport_recpt
(d1=01, d2=00, d3=00)
11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to
$backdoorkp_light(01) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to
$backdoorkp_button_A(03) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to
$backdoorkp_button_B(04) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to
$backdoorkp_button_C(05) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to
$backdoorkp_button_D(06) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)




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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:17:12AM -0800, George Farris wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 08:24 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:24:42AM -0800, George Farris wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2009-11-06 at 15:52 -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Can I just do "scan all link tables" and then do "sync all links"?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Okay this is what I have but it doesn't update the light on the
> > > KeypadLinc.  If I turn it on remotely.
> >  
> > And by that you mean no matter how the light is turned on:
> > 1) in software in mh
> > 2) by pushing the main switch for the light
> > 3) by pushing another switch that remotely controls the light.
> >  
> > > Any hints as to what I am doing wrong.  Many thanks in advance.
> >
> > First, to make reading easier, I recommend you name things like this
> > backdoorp_kpl_backdoorp
> > backdoorp_kpl_butA
> > backdoorp_kpl_butB
> >
> > etc..
> > Makes it easier to keep track of what is being linked to what when
> > you read the file and you have lots of devices and kpls.
> > Also, put some comments on what you're trying to accomplish. It'll
> > help making sense of it later.
> >
> > But generally working on this always hurts my brain a bit :)
> > Ok, I just had to read
> > http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon+Devices+-+Quirks+and+Hints#toc3
> > again :)
> >
> > > insteon.mht
> > > ---------------------------------------
> > > # OutletLincs
> > > IPLL,  0F.45.9F:01, carport_recpt, All_Lights|Outside|Christmas ,   plm
> > >
> > > # 6 Button KeypadLinc, :02 not used
> > > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:01, backdoorkp_light, All_Lights|Outside ,   plm
> > > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:03, backdoorkp_button_A, buttons,   plm
> > > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:04, backdoorkp_button_B, buttons,   plm
> > > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:05, backdoorkp_button_C, buttons,   plm
> > > IPLL,  12.BD.CA:06, backdoorkp_button_D, buttons,   plm
> >
> > So far so good
> >
> >  
> > > SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoorkp_button_A, 100%, 0.1s
> >
> > this should indeed let you control the carport light from
> > button A on the KPL
> >
> > > SCENE_MEMBER, backdoorkp_button_A, carport_recpt
> >
> > I'm not familiar with outletlincs, but this looks ok.
> > You should dump the link tables and make sure that you have a
> > carport_recpt(controller1) in carport_recpt and
> > backdoorkp_button_A(receiver1) in backdoorkp_light (which I would call
> > backdoorp_kpl, or it gets confusing)
> >
> > Since you have:
> > > # Backdoor scene
> > > IPLL, plm:10, backdoor_scene,  scenes, plm
> > > SCENE_MEMBER, carport_recpt, backdoor_scene, ON
> > I think you are missing
> > > SCENE_MEMBER, backdoorkp_button_A, backdoor_scene, ON
> > for that scene to be useful (you need to sync the scene back to the PLM fot
> > it to work).
> >
> > This would explain why the tie below does not help switching
> > backdoorkp_button_A when you do backdoor_scene->set(ON).
> >
> > but it does not explain why toggling carport_recpt doesn't toggle
> > backdoorkp_button_A.
> >
> > Again, I'd dump the tables and see if you have the links you need.
> >
> > Marc

 
I unwrapped the lines that were otherwise mostly unreadable :)

> 11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to $carport_recpt(01) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
> 11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] cntlr(10) record to $carport_recpt (d1=01, d2=00, d3=00)
> 11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to $backdoorkp_light(01) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
> 11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to $backdoorkp_button_A(03) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
> 11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to $backdoorkp_button_B(04) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
> 11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to $backdoorkp_button_C(05) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)
> 11/13/09 10:16:14 AM [Insteon_PLM] responder record to $backdoorkp_button_D(06) (d1=00, d2=00, d3=00)

That looks like the PLM table.
You are having issues between carport_recpt and backdoorkp_kpl (I'll name
it that, it's less confusing).

You need to dump those tables instead, preferably unwrapped and labelled so
that we don't have to guess which table is which :)

That said after you dump them you'll probably see that you are missing a
link (hopefully)

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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