Insteon and MisterHouse

[Liran Tal-2]

Hey,

I've been considering for a long while how to approach this whole smart-house arena.
I first focused at ZWave as I figured it would be "easy" to integrate it with the LinuxMCE
product but after realizing it almost doesn't have a "proper" linux based solution to interact
with the ZWave components I've decided to let it go.

Which brings me here... Googling quite a bit I've come to the conclusion that Insteon might
be what I'm looking for (as it is MisterHouse compatible which provides me with freedom to
build on top of it) but I would like a little bit more clarification before I proceed...


I have read that MisterHouse would work (only) with the Insteon PLM which plugs into the
Serial Port of a computer on one side and on the other side to the electrical system.
Is MisterHouse the "control" software, as in, comparable to what heyu is for X10?
(i.e: I can run on/off/dim commands via MisterHouse's perl scripts?)

I have seen Insteon wireless devices... how does that fits in the puzzle? How can these
be controlled via MisterHouse? (is there an alternative to the PLM device which doesn't
connect to the electrical wiring but rather it has wireless instead?)


Thanks in advance,
Liran.

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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 01:49:27PM +0300, liran tal wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I first focused at ZWave as I figured it would be "easy" to integrate it
> with the LinuxMCE product but after realizing it almost doesn't have a
> "proper" linux based solution to interact with the ZWave components I've
> decided to let it go.
 
Actually, from what I've been told, Zwave does work reasonably well with
misterhouse.
You should go through http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon which will
answer most of your questions.
 
> I have read that MisterHouse would work (only) with the Insteon PLM which
> plugs into the Serial Port of a computer on one side and on the other side
> to the electrical system.  

Correct.

> Is MisterHouse the "control" software, as in, comparable to what heyu
> is for X10? (i.e: I can run on/off/dim commands via MisterHouse's perl
> scripts?)
 
Yes.
 
> I have seen Insteon wireless devices... how does that fits in the puzzle?
> How can these be controlled via MisterHouse? (is there an alternative to
> the PLM device which doesn't connect to the electrical wiring but rather
> it has wireless instead?)
 
See
http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon#toc5
and
http://www.insteon.net/about-howitworks.html
 
In a nutshell, insteon uses wireless access points to bridge your phases,
and those in turn are also used as bridges to wireless only devices.

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[Liran Tal-2]

Hey Marc,

Thanks for the quick reply.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Marc MERLIN <marc_mh@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 01:49:27PM +0300, liran tal wrote:
> Hey,

>
> I first focused at ZWave as I figured it would be "easy" to integrate it
> with the LinuxMCE product but after realizing it almost doesn't have a
> "proper" linux based solution to interact with the ZWave components I've
> decided to let it go.

Actually, from what I've been told, Zwave does work reasonably well with
misterhouse.
You should go through http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon which will
answer most of your questions.

I've been googling' about Zwave and  "David Satterfield" (a positive googling :) ) in a hope
to find out more information. I'd really like to start with the basics here, there are too
many names and terminology out there to get a person confused
My "basic" questions are: if Zwave *DOES* work with MisterHouse - which Zwave controller
works? what is the product name and model (a link to buy it would be nice :) ).
Secondly, I'm assuming that with Zwave, since it's RF, it would work anywhere in the world
but I did hear about different Zwave versions for UK or US... could someone make some
sense out of it?

In a nutshell, insteon uses wireless access points to bridge your phases,
and those in turn are also used as bridges to wireless only devices.

The way it's connected is: PC (MH) -> PLM -> electrical wiring -> BRIDGE
Where this BRIDGE is the wireless device that translates the command from the electrical
wiring into RF for other Insteon wireless-only devices? (is that bridge also 2 way by nature?)

Also regarding Insteon's PLM - since we're talking about electrical wiring as opposed to pure RF, it matters which system is it (Europe/US/other countries). In my country the it is 220V, 50hz (3 pins).


Regards,

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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 10:30:09PM +0300, liran tal wrote:
> I've been googling' about Zwave and  "David Satterfield" (a positive
> googling :) ) in a hope
> to find out more information. I'd really like to start with the basics here,
> there are too
> many names and terminology out there to get a person confused
> My "basic" questions are: if Zwave *DOES* work with MisterHouse - which
> Zwave controller
> works? what is the product name and model (a link to buy it would be nice :)
> ).
 
You have seen this page, right?
http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Z-Wave

It shows you need the RZC0P serial interface thing.
My research showed that Zwave seemed to work better in mh than it was
documented :)

Again, make sure you go through
http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon#insteon_x10_zwave_upb when trying
to pick

> Secondly, I'm assuming that with Zwave, since it's RF, it would work
> anywhere in the world but I did hear about different Zwave versions for UK
> or US... could someone make some sense out of it?

Likely because you can't use the same RF bands in all countries.
Also, UK is 240V US is 120V.
 
> The way it's connected is: PC (MH) -> PLM -> electrical wiring -> BRIDGE
> Where this BRIDGE is the wireless device that translates the command from
> the electrical wiring into RF for other Insteon wireless-only devices? (is
> that bridge also 2 way by nature?)
 
Bridge is 'AP', as in
http://www.smarthome.com/2443P/Access-Point-INSTEON-Wireless-Phase-Coupler-2-Pack/p.aspx

download the manual, it'll make more sense :)
but basically two APs will bridge your powerline from one phase to the other
via RF and also bridge RF only devices to both phases (since you have at
least one AP on each phase).

bridge is indeed 2 way.
 
> Also regarding Insteon's PLM - since we're talking about electrical wiring
> as opposed to pure RF, it matters which system is it (Europe/US/other
> countries). In my country the it is 220V, 50hz (3 pins).

It matters regardless of whether you pick Insteon, UPB, or Zwave since all 3
leach power from the powerline to work and would be unhappy if they got the
wrong voltage :)

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[Liran Tal-2]

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Marc MERLIN <marc_mh@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 10:30:09PM +0300, liran tal wrote:

You have seen this page, right?
http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Z-Wave

It shows you need the RZC0P serial interface thing.
My research showed that Zwave seemed to work better in mh than it was
documented :)

Yes I've seen it, I have found this link: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=173512&section=15188

And also this one to actually buy it: http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/Leviton/Item/RZC0P-1LW/

but it says that this is discontinued and I dont know if the "new" model is supported
with Mh.
 

Again, make sure you go through
http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon#insteon_x10_zwave_upb when trying
to pick

I'm unable to think of anything which would be of a real concern except for compatability
with Linux and the electrical wiring in my country.
 

> Secondly, I'm assuming that with Zwave, since it's RF, it would work
> anywhere in the world but I did hear about different Zwave versions for UK
> or US... could someone make some sense out of it?

Likely because you can't use the same RF bands in all countries.
Also, UK is 240V US is 120V.

How do I know if that ZWave device (RZC0P-1LW) going to be compatible with other
ZWave devices which I'd want to buy...? (that webpage itself for this model says:
120VAC, 60Hz - which doesn't mean much to me)

> Also regarding Insteon's PLM - since we're talking about electrical wiring
> as opposed to pure RF, it matters which system is it (Europe/US/other
> countries). In my country the it is 220V, 50hz (3 pins).

It matters regardless of whether you pick Insteon, UPB, or Zwave since all 3
leach power from the powerline to work and would be unhappy if they got the
wrong voltage :)

Right :-)
In this case, the FIRST place to start is to find a place to buy either ZWave or Insteon
devices that are first and foremost fit for my country's electrical wiring... I'm from Israel and as I said the electrical system here is 220v / 50hz


Thanks.

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[Marc MERLIN-7]

On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 12:04:53AM +0300, liran tal wrote:
> but it says that this is discontinued and I dont know if the "new" model is
> supported with Mh.
 
My guess would be "likely not", and just find the old one on ebay or
something.
 
> How do I know if that ZWave device (RZC0P-1LW) going to be compatible with
> other ZWave devices which I'd want to buy...? (that webpage itself for
> this model says:  120VAC, 60Hz - which doesn't mean much to me)
 
Honestly, I can't say. I'm unfortunately on 120, and I don't use Zwave.
 
> Right :-)
> In this case, the FIRST place to start is to find a place to buy either
> ZWave or Insteon devices that are first and foremost fit for my country's
> electrical wiring... I'm from Israel and as I said the electrical system
> here is 220v / > 50hz

Right. Find out what you can even buy and only if you have two to choose
from should you worry about picking which one :)

Marc
--
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ 

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[Liran Tal-2]

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Marc MERLIN <marc_mh@...> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 12:04:53AM +0300, liran tal wrote:

> How do I know if that ZWave device (RZC0P-1LW) going to be compatible with
> other ZWave devices which I'd want to buy...? (that webpage itself for
> this model says:  120VAC, 60Hz - which doesn't mean much to me)

Honestly, I can't say. I'm unfortunately on 120, and I don't use Zwave.

Right. Find out what you can even buy and only if you have two to choose
from should you worry about picking which one :)

Ok so, Israel is the same frequency and voltage of Europe so I found z-wave-europe.org
which sells zwave items for the european standard (which uses a different frequency for it's RF signal).

I was wondering if someone could take a look at their PC interfaces and tell me if any of them is supported with MisterHouse, they are listed here:

http://www.z-wave-europe.org/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=24&lang=en

Thanks,
Liran.

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