Interview with Manin ~~~> Pragmatic Norms

[Jon Awbrey]

Re: Interview with Manin ~~~> Pragmatic Norms
At: http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html

People who call themselves "pragmatists", philosophically speaking, have long
recognized that pragmatism has both a high road and a low road, but a few on
both roads have also seen that the roads are destined to converge in the end.

How long that takes is anybody's guess.

But I do not think that any opposition between "normative" and "pragmatic" can
withstand critical reflection on the true meanings of those words for very long.

Jon Awbrey, 07 Nov 2009, 5:56 PM
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c028994

cc: Arisbe, Cohere Dev, Conceptual Graphs, Cybernetics, Inquiry, Pragmatic Web

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[Jon Awbrey]

Gary, Jack, Paola,

Thanks for the replies.  Incidentally, I started a page at the
associated n-Lab wiki where I was trying to trace the connections
between category theory as a language or a paradigm in mathematics
and the use of categories in their more general philosophical sense.

http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/precursors

But get it quick, as there's already a movement afoot to delete it.

Jon

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[John F. Sowa]

Jon,

If you want to look for precursors, you might consider that
before Aristotle the word 'kategoria' had most commonly been
used to mean an accusation in a court of law.

John


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[Jon Awbrey]

Interview with Manin ~~~> The Wand Chooses The Wizard
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html

My favorite:

| I must explain to you how I imagine mathematics.  I am an emotional Platonist
| (not a rational one: there are no rational arguments in favor of Platonism).
| Somehow or other, for me mathematical research is a discovery, not an invention.
| I imagine for myself a great castle, or something like that, and you gradually
| start seeing its contours through the deep mist, and begin to investigate something.
| How you formulate what it is you've seen depends on your type of thinking and on the
| scale of what you have seen, and on the social circumstances around you, and so on.
|
| Yuri Manin, in Mikhail Gelfand (interviewer), Mark Saul (translator),
| "We Do Not Choose Our Profession, It Chooses Us : Interview with Yuri Manin",
| ''Notices of the AMS'' 56 (November 2009), 1268–1274.
| http://www.ams.org/notices/200910/rtx091001268p.pdf

Jon Awbrey, 08 Nov 2009, 6:48 AM
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029001

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[Jon Awbrey]

John,

Yes, I'd heard that before on the Peirce List,
probably from Joe Ransdell, as it would fit in
with his theory of assertion, and I recall going
back to Liddell and Scott to look into the roots,
but I never got a chance to investigate the origins
any further.  The lexical components seem to suggest
a "driving down" or a "leading down", hence "reduction",
maybe even "denunciation", and it may be a distant cousin
to our English idiom of "handing down an indictment", but
that's most likely just over-active imagining.  At any rate,
reading it "reduction" makes sense in regard to the function
of categories in reducing the ambiguity of terms and concepts.

Jon

John F. Sowa wrote:
> Jon,
>
> If you want to look for precursors, you might consider that
> before Aristotle the word 'kategoria' had most commonly been
> used to mean an accusation in a court of law.
>
> John

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[Jon Awbrey]

Interview with Manin ~~~> Pragmatic Norms
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html

Thanks, Gary.  Give me a few days to metabolize that feast of inferential symboly.
In the mean time, my continuing interest in the issue led me to search Manin's text for
clues to the contrast that he or his translator drew between "normative" and "pragmatic".

Here's a sample of relevant passages:

<blockquote>
<p>Cantor's theory of the infinite had no basis in the older mathematics.
You can argue about this as you like, but this was a new mathematics,
a new way to think about mathematics, a new way to produce mathematics.
In the final analysis, despite the arguments, the contradictions,
Cantor's universe was accepted by Bourbaki without apology.  They
created "pragmatic foundations", adopted for many decades by all
working mathematicians, as opposed to "normative foundations"
that logicists or constructivists tried to impose upon us.</p>

<p>…</p>

<p>What Bourbaki did was to take a historical step, just as what Cantor himself
did.  But this step, while it played an enormous role, is very simple —
it was not creating the philosophical foundations of mathematics, but rather
developing a universal common mathematical language, which could be used for
discussion by probabilists, topologists, specialists in graph theory or in
functional analysis or in algebraic geometry, and by logicians as well.</p>

<p>…</p>

<p>When "pragmatic foundations" of mathematics are made explicit,
usually in several variants, the advocates of different versions
may start quarreling, but to the extent that it all exists in the
brains of the working generation of mathematicians, there is always
something they have in common.</p>
</blockquote>

 From reading that, I would guess that Manin means "pragmatic" in
the sense of culturally embedded practices — bringing to mind
[Wilder](http://www.gap-system.org/~history/Biographies/Wilder.html)'s
theme on "Mathematics as a Cultural System"

[1](http://www.gap-system.org/~history/Extras/Cultural_Basis_I.html),
[2](http://www.gap-system.org/~history/Extras/Cultural_Basis_II.html),
[3](http://www.gap-system.org/~history/Extras/Cultural_Basis_III.html)

— and, as far as "normative" goes, he seems to be using it more
in the sense of programmatic principles that are perhaps too prematurely
"prescriptive" than referring to norms with a solid grounding in practice
and oriented toward the ultimate _pragma_ of the given enterprise.

Jon Awbrey, 08 Nov 2009, 2:40 PM
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029004

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[David Cox]

Jon,

Thanks for your CG on "We Do Not Choose Our Profession, It Chooses Us : Interview with Yuri Manin."

It has led directly to my discovering/ appreciating several concepts that will help me explain how user-unfriendly linear notations of logic and language can be bypassed successfully by offering users architectures (patterns of way-showing displays).  These architectures are combinations/ structures made of child-simple rectangular blocks each containing user action descriptions in any format. These architectures are different from descriptions of how a system works and different from manufacturers' hype.  It has facilitated 'learn by doing succeeding first time through and feeling great about it.' 

The concepts you pointed to me are important as I try to make available my experience (and that of others) with a paper I expect to write
Logical complexity is easy to way-find through when formed as the ultra-simple architecture of FLIPP Explainers.

Look for the references to list several items that you identified for me, Jon.

Dave

Jon Awbrey wrote:

Interview with Manin ~~~> The Wand Chooses The Wizard
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html

My favorite:

| I must explain to you how I imagine mathematics.  I am an emotional Platonist
| (not a rational one: there are no rational arguments in favor of Platonism).
| Somehow or other, for me mathematical research is a discovery, not an invention.
| I imagine for myself a great castle, or something like that, and you gradually
| start seeing its contours through the deep mist, and begin to investigate something.
| How you formulate what it is you've seen depends on your type of thinking and on the
| scale of what you have seen, and on the social circumstances around you, and so on.
|
| Yuri Manin, in Mikhail Gelfand (interviewer), Mark Saul (translator),
| "We Do Not Choose Our Profession, It Chooses Us : Interview with Yuri Manin",
| ''Notices of the AMS'' 56 (November 2009), 1268–1274.
| http://www.ams.org/notices/200910/rtx091001268p.pdf

Jon Awbrey, 08 Nov 2009, 6:48 AM
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029001

[Jon Awbrey]

Re: Interview with Manin ~~~> The Wand Chooses The Wizard
At: http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html

The best that I know from Galois is far too punny to be told in this 'hood, but it's
said that Jeremy Bentham was a subprime mover of many billiards still in play when it
comes to the care and selective breeding of fictitious entities.  Quine's introduction
to Whitehead and Russell (1910) contains a note on Bentham's notion of ''paraphrasis''
that may serve as a cue:

http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/propositions+as+types+in+combinatory+algebra#notes_23

When it comes to the special case of infinities as ideal entities,
here's a summary thought from Hilbert that I recorded in my attempt
to list a few speculative Precursors of category theory.

http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/precursors#hilbert_7

http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/precursors

Jon Awbrey, 09 Nov 2009, 12:36 PM
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029019

Incorporating the following correction:

Jon Awbrey, 09 Nov 2009, 12:52 PM
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029020

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[John F. Sowa]

Jon,

The link between 'kategoria' and accusation raises another interesting
association in Latin:  the accusative case is commonly used to state
accusations and make categorical pronouncements.

John Sowa


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[Jon Awbrey]

Ed,

There's a question that keeps coming up in several discussions
about the pre-Aristotelian meaning/usage of the word "kategoria".

Could you take a look at this thread on the Conceptual Graphs List
and tell us what you know about it?

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ai.conceptual-graphs/2837

Thanks in advance,

Jon Awbrey

John F. Sowa wrote:
> Jon,
>
> The link between 'kategoria' and accusation raises another interesting
> association in Latin:  the accusative case is commonly used to state
> accusations and make categorical pronouncements.
>
> John Sowa

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[Jon Awbrey]

Re: Interview with Manin ~~~> The Wand Chooses The Wizard
At: http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html

Questions about the ontological status of grammatical categories and structural levels
are as commonplace in linguistics as questions about the ontological status of variables
in logic and mathematics.  I can't place the interview that Minhyong Kim mentions right
offhand, but it seems like a fairly characteristic remark.  The subject arose recently
on a thread in the n-Forum:

* http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/Vanilla/nForum/comments.php?DiscussionID=179

where I cited this early statement from Chomsky:

| In linguistic theory, we face the problem of constructing this system
| of levels in an abstract manner, in such a way that a simple grammar
| will result when this complex of abstract structures is given an
| interpretation in actual linguistic material.
|
| Since higher levels are not literally constructed out of lower ones,
| in this view, we are quite free to construct levels of a high degree
| of interdependence, i.e., with heavy conditions of compatibility
| between them, without the fear of circularity that has been so
| widely stressed in recent theoretical work in linguistics.
|
| (Chomsky, 1975, p. 100).
|
| Chomsky, N. (1975), ''The Logical Structure of Linguistic Theory'', University of
| Chicago Press, Chicago, IL.  Based on a widely circulated manuscript dated 1955.

Jon Awbrey, 09 Nov 2009, 1:56 PM
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029023

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[Jon Awbrey]

> Sure.
>
>> Thanks, Ed, that's a big help, actually.
>> I'll forward it on if it's okay with you.
>>
>> Jon
>>
 >>> Ed Buckner wrote:
 >>>
>>> I am afraid this is a subject in which I have little knowledge or expertise.
 >>> I have some knowledge of Latin philosophy in the medieval period, and Latin
 >>> technical philosophical terms.  Many of which were translated from Aristotle's
 >>> Greek, but since nearly all of the thirteenth century philosophers knew no Greek,
 >>> I am interested only in the Latin meanings. (I.e. the Latin terms may be poor
 >>> translations of Greek, but this doesn't matter, since I am interested in how
 >>> they understood Aristotle, not whether their understanding is right).
 >>>
 >>> That said, it is commonly known that the English word 'predicate' is derived from
 >>> the Latin 'predicatum' which is Boethius' translation of Aristotle's 'kategoria'.
 >>> There is some dispute about whether Aristotle invented this meaning, or whether
 >>> he was adapting an existing use.  One of its meanings is 'charge' or 'accusation',
 >>> but it can also mean 'assertion', which is closer to predication.  However Aristotle
 >>> uses a different term for assertion (apophansis).  So it's all rather a puzzle.
 >>>
 >>> Sorry I can't help.
 >>>
 >>> Ed

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[Graham R. Shutt-2]

Dear Jon and John,

Attached is an .html file containing the definition of katēgoreō and related words as found in Liddell, Scott, and Jones (1968).

At first glance, "accuse" would seem to be an unhappy translation of katēgor- and related forms because of the legal connotations. The Latin verb accūsō, ~āre [ad- + causa] has built into it, so to speak, a legal case. But causa, ~ae may also mean a causal or metaphysical principle. Perhaps "categories" and "principles" are not too far apart.

Aristotle sometimes uses the expressions "predicate of" and "say of" in what seem to me interchangeable ways. For example, "Whenever one thing is predicated of another as of a subject, all things said of what is predicated will be said of the subject also" (Categories 1b10ff; emphasis added). I suppose that when one "accuses" someone of something, one is actually "saying" something of that person. But perhaps this is just "over-active imagining" on my part, too.

Graham R. SHUTT
Voice: 206.726.9491
Email: grshutt@...
URL: grshutt.org

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Jon Awbrey <jawbrey@...> wrote:

Sure.

Thanks, Ed, that's a big help, actually.
I'll forward it on if it's okay with you.

Jon

>>> Ed Buckner wrote:
>>>

I am afraid this is a subject in which I have little knowledge or expertise.

>>> I have some knowledge of Latin philosophy in the medieval period, and Latin
>>> technical philosophical terms.  Many of which were translated from Aristotle's
>>> Greek, but since nearly all of the thirteenth century philosophers knew no Greek,
>>> I am interested only in the Latin meanings. (I.e. the Latin terms may be poor
>>> translations of Greek, but this doesn't matter, since I am interested in how
>>> they understood Aristotle, not whether their understanding is right).
>>>
>>> That said, it is commonly known that the English word 'predicate' is derived from
>>> the Latin 'predicatum' which is Boethius' translation of Aristotle's 'kategoria'.
>>> There is some dispute about whether Aristotle invented this meaning, or whether
>>> he was adapting an existing use.  One of its meanings is 'charge' or 'accusation',
>>> but it can also mean 'assertion', which is closer to predication.  However Aristotle
>>> uses a different term for assertion (apophansis).  So it's all rather a puzzle.
>>>
>>> Sorry I can't help.
>>>
>>> Ed

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katēgor-eō

katēgor-eō, speak against, especially before judges, accuse, opposed to apolog-eomai [speak in defense, defend oneself]; denounce him publicly; you accused them of saying. 2. bring as a charge against a person, accuse him of it. 3. allege in accusation; to be brought as an accusation against; the first false charges brought against me; a charge had been brought against them that; a charge being brought against him, that. b. of the person, to be accused. 4. to be an accuser, appear as prosecutor. II. signify, indicate, prove. 2. declare, assert; make a definite assertion. III. in Logic, predicate of a person or thing; to be predicated of; the predicate, opposed to to hupokeimenon [the subject]; to be subject and predicate. 2. affirm, opposed to aparn-eomai [deny utterly]; categorically, roundly.

katēgor-ēma, atos, to

katēgor-ēma, atos, to, accusation, charge; this is the fault of. II. in Logic, predicate. 2. head of predicables. III. sign, indication.

katēgor-ēseiō

katēgor-ēseiō, to be anxious to accuse.

katēgor-ēsis, eōs, hē

katēgor-ēsis, eōs, hē, predication

katēgor-ēteon

katēgor-ēteon;, one must accuse, lay the blame on. II. one must assert; one must predicate.

katēgor-ētēs

katēgor-ētēs, ou, ho, accuser.

katēgor-ētikos, ē, on

katēgor-ētikos, ē, on, = katēgorikos.

katēgor-ia, hē

katēgor-ia, hē, accusation, opposed to aitia [expostulation]; opposed to epainos [commendation]; opposed to apologia [defence]; charges were made against; I am liable to accusation. II. in Logic, predication; especially affirmative predication, opposed to sterēsis [negation]. 2. predicate. 3. category, head of predicables.

katēgor-ikos, ē, on

katēgor-ikos, ē, on, accusatory, opposed to apologikos []; informers, = Latin delatores. II.. affirmative, opposed to sterētikos [having a negative quality]. 2. categorical, opposed to hypothetical, katēgorikon, to, statement combining subject and predicate.

katēgor-os, ho

katēgor-os, ho, accuser; public prosecutor; betrayer.

References

Liddell, Henry George, and Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon. Rev. Henry Stuart Jones. Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1968.

---

Last modified: Tue Nov 10 17:49:50 PST 2009

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[Graham R. Shutt-2]

My apologies about the errors in the previous .html file. A corrected file is attached below.
Graham R. SHUTT
Voice: 206.726.9491
Email: grshutt@...
URL: grshutt.org

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Graham R. Shutt <grshutt@...> wrote:

Dear Jon and John,

Attached is an .html file containing the definition of katēgoreō and related words as found in Liddell, Scott, and Jones (1968).

At first glance, "accuse" would seem to be an unhappy translation of katēgor- and related forms because of the legal connotations. The Latin verb accūsō, ~āre [ad- + causa] has built into it, so to speak, a legal case. But causa, ~ae may also mean a causal or metaphysical principle. Perhaps "categories" and "principles" are not too far apart.

Aristotle sometimes uses the expressions "predicate of" and "say of" in what seem to me interchangeable ways. For example, "Whenever one thing is predicated of another as of a subject, all things said of what is predicated will be said of the subject also" (Categories 1b10ff; emphasis added). I suppose that when one "accuses" someone of something, one is actually "saying" something of that person. But perhaps this is just "over-active imagining" on my part, too.

Graham R. SHUTT
Voice: 206.726.9491
Email: grshutt@...
URL: grshutt.org

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Jon Awbrey <jawbrey@...> wrote:

Sure.

Thanks, Ed, that's a big help, actually.
I'll forward it on if it's okay with you.

Jon

>>> Ed Buckner wrote:
>>>

I am afraid this is a subject in which I have little knowledge or expertise.

>>> I have some knowledge of Latin philosophy in the medieval period, and Latin
>>> technical philosophical terms.  Many of which were translated from Aristotle's
>>> Greek, but since nearly all of the thirteenth century philosophers knew no Greek,
>>> I am interested only in the Latin meanings. (I.e. the Latin terms may be poor
>>> translations of Greek, but this doesn't matter, since I am interested in how
>>> they understood Aristotle, not whether their understanding is right).
>>>
>>> That said, it is commonly known that the English word 'predicate' is derived from
>>> the Latin 'predicatum' which is Boethius' translation of Aristotle's 'kategoria'.
>>> There is some dispute about whether Aristotle invented this meaning, or whether
>>> he was adapting an existing use.  One of its meanings is 'charge' or 'accusation',
>>> but it can also mean 'assertion', which is closer to predication.  However Aristotle
>>> uses a different term for assertion (apophansis).  So it's all rather a puzzle.
>>>
>>> Sorry I can't help.
>>>
>>> Ed

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katēgor-eō

katēgor-eō, speak against, especially before judges, accuse, opposed to apolog-eomai [speak in defense, defend oneself]; denounce him publicly; you accused them of saying. 2. bring as a charge against a person, accuse him of it. 3. allege in accusation; to be brought as an accusation against; the first false charges brought against me; a charge had been brought against them that; a charge being brought against him, that. b. of the person, to be accused. 4. to be an accuser, appear as prosecutor. II. signify, indicate, prove. 2. declare, assert; make a definite assertion. III. in Logic, predicate of a person or thing; to be predicated of; the predicate, opposed to to hupokeimenon [the subject]; to be subject and predicate. 2. affirm, opposed to aparn-eomai [deny utterly]; categorically, roundly.

katēgor-ēma, atos, to

katēgor-ēma, atos, to, accusation, charge; this is the fault of. II. in Logic, predicate. 2. head of predicables. III. sign, indication.

katēgor-ēseiō

katēgor-ēseiō, to be anxious to accuse.

katēgor-ēsis, eōs, hē

katēgor-ēsis, eōs, hē, predication

katēgor-ēteon

katēgor-ēteon;, one must accuse, lay the blame on. II. one must assert; one must predicate.

katēgor-ētēs

katēgor-ētēs, ou, ho, accuser.

katēgor-ētikos, ē, on

katēgor-ētikos, ē, on, = katēgorikos.

katēgor-ia, hē

katēgor-ia, hē, accusation, opposed to aitia [expostulation]; opposed to epainos [commendation]; opposed to apologia [defence]; charges were made against; I am liable to accusation. II. in Logic, predication; especially affirmative predication, opposed to sterēsis [negation]. 2. predicate. 3. category, head of predicables.

katēgor-ikos, ē, on

katēgor-ikos, ē, on, accusatory, opposed to apologikos []; informers, = Latin delatores. II.. affirmative, opposed to sterētikos [having a negative quality]. 2. categorical, opposed to hypothetical, katēgorikon, to, statement combining subject and predicate.

katēgor-os, ho

katēgor-os, ho, accuser; public prosecutor; betrayer.

References

Liddell, Henry George, and Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon. Rev. Henry Stuart Jones. Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1968.

---

Last modified: Tue Nov 10 18:58:55 PST 2009

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[Jon Awbrey]

Thanks, Graham,

That seems to makes "accuse" something
like "show cause" or "advance a reason".

I vaguely remember -- not having any Greek to speak of ...
but just looking across the page in my old Loeb Classics --
that Aristotle used two words for "predicating something of
something".  One must have been the root of "categorizing",
and it seems like the other was something like "hyparchein"?
I recall getting a vaguely syntactic sense from the former
but a vaguely geometric sense from the later, like it would
have been used in connection with a diagram.  Does that make
any sense at all?

Jon

Graham R. Shutt wrote:

> My apologies about the errors in the previous .html file. A corrected file
> is attached below.
> Graham R. SHUTT
> Voice: 206.726.9491
> Email: grshutt@...
> URL: grshutt.org
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Graham R. Shutt <grshutt@...> wrote:
>
>> Dear Jon and John,
>>
>> Attached is an .html file containing the definition of katēgoreō and
>> related words as found in Liddell, Scott, and Jones (1968).
>>
>> At first glance, "accuse" would seem to be an unhappy translation of
>> katēgor- and related forms because of the legal connotations. The Latin verb
>> accūsō, ~āre [ad- + causa] has built into it, so to speak, a legal case. But
>> causa, ~ae may also mean a causal or metaphysical principle. Perhaps
>> "categories" and "principles" are not too far apart.
>>
>> Aristotle sometimes uses the expressions "predicate of" and "say of" in
>> what seem to me interchangeable ways. For example, "Whenever one thing is
>> *predicated of* another as of a subject, all things *said of *what is
>> predicated will be said of the subject also" (Categories 1b10ff; emphasis
>> added). I suppose that when one "accuses" someone of something, one is
>> actually "saying" something of that person. But perhaps this is just
>> "over-active imagining" on my part, too.
>>
>> Graham R. SHUTT
>> Voice: 206.726.9491
>> Email: grshutt@...
>> URL: grshutt.org

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[Graham R. Shutt-2]

Dear Jon,

In Categories, Aristotle uses the verb katēgoreō when he speaks of predicating something of something. Sometimes he will also use the verb legō [to say], as in the passage I quoted above: "Whenever one thing is predicated of another as of a subject, all things said of what is predicated will be said of the subject also" (Categories 1b10ff; emphasis added).

The verb huparkhō you mention can mean begin, take the initiative; exist, be; and is sometimes used like hupokeimai, to be assumed as a hypothesis. According to LSJ, in the logic of Aristotle huparkhein "denotes the subsistence of qualities in a subject." LSJ cites Metaphysics 1025a14 as an example of this usage.

Minio-Paluello's Oxford Classical Text edition of Categories has a useful index. I also use Ackrill's translation of Categories in the Clarendon Aristotle Series. This, too, has a useful index.

G.

Graham R. SHUTT
Voice: 206.726.9491
Email: grshutt@...
URL: grshutt.org

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Jon Awbrey <jawbrey@...> wrote:

Thanks, Graham,

That seems to makes "accuse" something
like "show cause" or "advance a reason".

I vaguely remember -- not having any Greek to speak of ...
but just looking across the page in my old Loeb Classics --
that Aristotle used two words for "predicating something of
something".  One must have been the root of "categorizing",
and it seems like the other was something like "hyparchein"?
I recall getting a vaguely syntactic sense from the former
but a vaguely geometric sense from the later, like it would
have been used in connection with a diagram.  Does that make
any sense at all?

Jon

Graham R. Shutt wrote:

My apologies about the errors in the previous .html file. A corrected file
is attached below.
Graham R. SHUTT
Voice: 206.726.9491
Email: grshutt@...
URL: grshutt.org


On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Graham R. Shutt <grshutt@...> wrote:

Dear Jon and John,

Attached is an .html file containing the definition of katēgoreō and
related words as found in Liddell, Scott, and Jones (1968).

At first glance, "accuse" would seem to be an unhappy translation of
katēgor- and related forms because of the legal connotations. The Latin verb
accūsō, ~āre [ad- + causa] has built into it, so to speak, a legal case. But
causa, ~ae may also mean a causal or metaphysical principle. Perhaps
"categories" and "principles" are not too far apart.

Aristotle sometimes uses the expressions "predicate of" and "say of" in
what seem to me interchangeable ways. For example, "Whenever one thing is
*predicated of* another as of a subject, all things *said of *what is
predicated will be said of the subject also" (Categories 1b10ff; emphasis
added). I suppose that when one "accuses" someone of something, one is
actually "saying" something of that person. But perhaps this is just
"over-active imagining" on my part, too.

Graham R. SHUTT
Voice: 206.726.9491
Email: grshutt@...
URL: grshutt.org

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[Jon Awbrey]

Thanks again, Graham, it looks like I'll have to set aside some time
for a fresh "anamnesis" on these questions.  I used to have a lot of
links into the Perseus site http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ but they're
all broken now -- I guess Perseus has been redecorating since the last
time I visited his digs ...

Jon

GS = Graham R. SHUTT

GS: In *Categories*, Aristotle uses the verb katēgoreō when he speaks
     of predicating something of something.  Sometimes he will also
     use the verb legō [to say], as in the passage I quoted above:
     "Whenever one thing is *predicated of* another as of a subject,
     all things *said of* what is predicated will be *said of* the
     subject also" (Categories 1b10ff, emphasis added).

GS: The verb huparkhō you mention can mean begin, take the initiative;
     exist, be; and is sometimes used like hupokeimai, to be assumed as
     a hypothesis.  According to LSJ, in the logic of Aristotle huparkhein
     "denotes *the subsistence* of qualities *in a subject*."  LSJ cites
     *Metaphysics* 1025a14 as an example of this usage.

GS: Minio-Paluello's Oxford Classical Text edition of *Categories* has
     a useful index.  I also use Ackrill's translation of *Categories*
     in the Clarendon Aristotle Series.  This, too, has a useful index.

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