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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
< pocallaghan@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 21:35 +0000, Colin J Thomson - G6AVK wrote:
>> Well if I am not mistaken Kabc is using it, I am not sure if it is
>> set to use
>> Kabc initially as default, Rex, Kevin? but I use it (for testing
>> purposes)
>> with Kabc:
>>
>> 2560 /usr/bin/akonadi_control
>> 2562 akonadiserver
>> 2569 /usr/libexec/mysqld --defaults-
>> file=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi//mysql.conf --
>> datadir=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/ --
>> socket=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_misc/mysql.socket
>> 2622 /usr/bin/akonadi_mailthreader_agent --identifier
>> akonadi_mailthreader_agent
>> 2623 /usr/bin/akonadi_vcard_resource --identifier
>> akonadi_vcard_resource_2
>>
>> Works well an not resource hungry. If you don't want/need to use it
>> disable it
>> in systems settings.
>
> I've never heard of Kabc and have no idea what it is. There's no file
> with that name installed anywhere on my system (I checked).
>
> I'd still like to know why I'm running akonadi.
>
> poc
Kabc is the K Address Book, it's always been called kabc
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 22:44 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
> < pocallaghan@...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 21:35 +0000, Colin J Thomson - G6AVK wrote:
> >> Well if I am not mistaken Kabc is using it, I am not sure if it is
> >> set to use
> >> Kabc initially as default, Rex, Kevin? but I use it (for testing
> >> purposes)
> >> with Kabc:
> >>
> >> 2560 /usr/bin/akonadi_control
> >> 2562 akonadiserver
> >> 2569 /usr/libexec/mysqld --defaults-
> >> file=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi//mysql.conf --
> >> datadir=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/ --
> >> socket=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_misc/mysql.socket
> >> 2622 /usr/bin/akonadi_mailthreader_agent --identifier
> >> akonadi_mailthreader_agent
> >> 2623 /usr/bin/akonadi_vcard_resource --identifier
> >> akonadi_vcard_resource_2
> >>
> >> Works well an not resource hungry. If you don't want/need to use it
> >> disable it
> >> in systems settings.
> >
> > I've never heard of Kabc and have no idea what it is. There's no file
> > with that name installed anywhere on my system (I checked).
> >
> > I'd still like to know why I'm running akonadi.
> >
> > poc
>
>
> Kabc is the K Address Book, it's always been called kabc
Well, you learn something new every day. I was searching for Kabc, not
kabc.
I still don't use it though, nor Kontact, nor Knotes, nor Kmail. So why
am I running akonadi? I occasionally run Konqueror and Dolphin. Would
that explain it?
poc
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
>> > Linux bloat continues unabated.
>>
>> ----
>> I think...
>>
>> - that you would have to have kde-pim package installed to bloat here
>>
>> - agreed on bloat but considering that my Acer Aspire One is 10 Gb
>> Windows installation and 5 Gb Fedora 10 and I have a lot more 'stuff'
>> installed in Fedora.
>>
> Agreed. My other laptop has to dual-boot with XP. However, I only require it
> for one application. I partitioned it with 8GB for XP system (no data) and to
> my surprise the most basic install filled it to danger point. I could
> certainly run a modern linux distro, with more applications, in the same
> space.
>
> More importantly, in linux, if you think something does install too much, you
> do have a choice.
>
> Anne
Looking at KDE 4.2, which seems to have sacrificed functionality for
good looks & an enhanced (but difficult to navigate & configure
interface), it seems a part of Linux seems to be moving the Windows
way (re: Vista's complex operation, non-intuitive functions & the
'aero' interface) ... choice in Linux seems to be going the Redmond
way (probably an overstatement, but now may be a good time for a
check).
Hope the next OO.org will not present us a telly-tubby look with a 'ribbon'.
Jay
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
Ed Greshko wrote:
> When I have more time I will look at it... However, I doubt that each
> application will spawn a new instance of mysql since that would
> certainly defeat the purpose of a centralized database. Looking at what
> little documentation I have...I am confident that it is one instance of
> mysql per user.
It is, as long as only Akonadi does it. But I think his point was that there
may be other services or applications starting to do the same, which will
then use separate databases.
Kevin Kofler
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
Andreas M. Kirchwitz wrote:
> In Fedora 10, akonadi cannot be un-installed without removing KDE.
> And KDE cannot be updated to version 4.2 without updating akonadi
> as well. In the end, KDE 4.2 requires MySQL (server) to be installed.
And where's the problem? It doesn't use much disk space and you don't have
to configure anything, you only need the executable. (And the systemwide
service, which Akonadi does not need, is disabled by default in the
mysql-server package anyway, as it ought to be.) Why is it a problem that
you need an executable which happens to be called mysqld? How's that worse
than, say, kded4 or to take a GNOME example, gnome-settings-daemon or
gnome-keyring-daemon? It's just a daemon which happens to be a database.
> And by default, akonadi uses a local MySQL instance. That's weird for a
> desktop workstation, and it's the wrong way to use a database like MySQL.
What alternative do you suggest? You surely can't expect all users to
configure their own database server! Starting up a local, automatically
configured, per-user instance is the only possible default which just
works. You can set it up to use a central server if you don't want a local
one.
> However, I accept the fact that KDE 4.2 now depends on MySQL, and
> installing a different Linux distribution after all these years
> won't help because sooner or later all other Linux distributions
> will have the same dependencies which come from akonadi (and
> without akonadi, you cannot install KDE). So, until GNOME people
> start their local MySQL instances as well, the only option is to
> remove KDE from the system.
No, your other option is to just accept that MySQL is required. I don't see
where the problem is.
Kevin Kofler
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
Martín Marqués wrote:
> They could have used some lighter database engine, like sqlite.
They tried. It didn't work for them. The alternatives they had were trying
to get SQLite fixed and delaying Akonadi for a couple years or just using
MySQL which works now. I can't really blame them for their decision, even
if it means larger dependencies than strictly necessary (but that's really
the _only_ complaint you can make about that decision). It's not like
they're requiring you to do any administration work for that MySQL
instance.
Kevin Kofler
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
< pocallaghan@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 22:44 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
>> < pocallaghan@...> wrote:
>> > On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 21:35 +0000, Colin J Thomson - G6AVK wrote:
>> >> Well if I am not mistaken Kabc is using it, I am not sure if it is
>> >> set to use
>> >> Kabc initially as default, Rex, Kevin? but I use it (for testing
>> >> purposes)
>> >> with Kabc:
>> >>
>> >> 2560 /usr/bin/akonadi_control
>> >> 2562 akonadiserver
>> >> 2569 /usr/libexec/mysqld --defaults-
>> >> file=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi//mysql.conf --
>> >> datadir=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/ --
>> >> socket=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_misc/mysql.socket
>> >> 2622 /usr/bin/akonadi_mailthreader_agent --identifier
>> >> akonadi_mailthreader_agent
>> >> 2623 /usr/bin/akonadi_vcard_resource --identifier
>> >> akonadi_vcard_resource_2
>> >>
>> >> Works well an not resource hungry. If you don't want/need to use it
>> >> disable it
>> >> in systems settings.
>> >
>> > I've never heard of Kabc and have no idea what it is. There's no file
>> > with that name installed anywhere on my system (I checked).
>> >
>> > I'd still like to know why I'm running akonadi.
>> >
>> > poc
>>
>>
>> Kabc is the K Address Book, it's always been called kabc
>
> Well, you learn something new every day. I was searching for Kabc, not
> kabc.
I didn't think yum search was case-sensitive, that may be a bug.
> I still don't use it though, nor Kontact, nor Knotes, nor Kmail. So why
> am I running akonadi? I occasionally run Konqueror and Dolphin. Would
> that explain it?
I don't think so, then again I haven't noticed this akonadi as yet, if
it is running, it's been quiet.
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 02:38 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > Well, you learn something new every day. I was searching for Kabc,
> not
> > kabc.
>
> I didn't think yum search was case-sensitive, that may be a bug.
I didn't use yum search. To absolutely sure, I used 'locate Kabc'. Of
course I should have used 'locate -i kabc'.
And in fact both 'yum search Kabc' and 'yum search kabc' turn up
nothing. Which is not surprising given that Kabc (kabc) is not a
package, it's part of kdepimlibs.
> > I still don't use it though, nor Kontact, nor Knotes, nor Kmail. So
> why
> > am I running akonadi? I occasionally run Konqueror and Dolphin.
> Would
> > that explain it?
>
> I don't think so, then again I haven't noticed this akonadi as yet, if
> it is running, it's been quiet.
pgrep -fl akonadi
poc
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 07:36 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Colin J Thomson - G6AVK wrote:
> > Well if I am not mistaken Kabc is using it, I am not sure if it is set to
> > use Kabc initially as default, Rex, Kevin?
>
> Actually I think Akonadi is simply set up to autostart as a service, no
> matter whether you actually have stuff using it or not.
Not good, on general principles. Even if it's not consuming any
resources (and of course nothing that's running is consuming *zero*
resources) it's a potential security problem to have stuff running "just
because". I don't say it's the only thing that does this, but that
doesn't make it right.
poc
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> By your comment one would think that installing mysql-server brings
> some great evil with it.
Maybe not that bad, but one might legitimately feel dirty because of it, anyway.
In a similar case for me, I had a web server which was fully driven by
postgresql. Everything on the server that needed a database used pg.
Then I had to configure it to run a mail server, and some component of
that required MySQL.
I unfortunately didn't have time to compile it from source or research
alternatives. So today, my postgresql server has MySQL installed just
to satisfy some dependency. Not evil; I just would not have preferred
it that way.
-Alan
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Monday 16 February 2009 20:59:05 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 20:33 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
> > You could always stop akonadi then do a Save Session, but something must
> > be using it, or you have started it through systemsettings, if that's
> > possible, so be careful that you are not going to break something you
> > want.
>
> Anne, I also have akonadi running but have no idea why:
>
So have I.
I've learned a bit more about this over the last 24 hours. It seems that the
server listens for requests from many applications. Client instances are
opened, one per active user, as and when required. I take it that that means
that we have one low-resource application running (listening) in readiness for
developments. As I said, at the moment I'm not aware of using anything
akonadi-based. I've no doubt, though, that over the coming months
developments in various apps will start to use this. With the efficiency gains
to be expected, they are certain to.
I've seen no evidence to suggest that there is any performance hit or any
other issue with the current situation, so I'll happily sit back and wait for
the goodies to arrive :-)
Anne
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
On Tuesday 17 February 2009 02:38:26 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 21:35 +0000, Colin J Thomson - G6AVK wrote:
> > Well if I am not mistaken Kabc is using it, I am not sure if it is
> > set to use
> > Kabc initially as default, Rex, Kevin? but I use it (for testing
> > purposes)
> > with Kabc:
> >
> > 2560 /usr/bin/akonadi_control
> > 2562 akonadiserver
> > 2569 /usr/libexec/mysqld --defaults-
> > file=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi//mysql.conf --
> > datadir=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/ --
> > socket=/home/g6avk/.local/share/akonadi/db_misc/mysql.socket
> > 2622 /usr/bin/akonadi_mailthreader_agent --identifier
> > akonadi_mailthreader_agent
> > 2623 /usr/bin/akonadi_vcard_resource --identifier
> > akonadi_vcard_resource_2
> >
> > Works well an not resource hungry. If you don't want/need to use it
> > disable it
> > in systems settings.
>
> I've never heard of Kabc and have no idea what it is. There's no file
> with that name installed anywhere on my system (I checked).
>
kabc is the backend (as I understand it) for KAddressBook.
Anne
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
Arthur Pemberton < pemboa@...> wrote:
> By your comment one would think that installing mysql-server brings
> some great evil with it.
For a typical installation of a "desktop workstation", none of the
packages in the "Servers" section needs to added. Makes sense. There's
no need for so-called servers on a desktop machine.
The only exception here is CUPS if you want to print documents, but
CUPS works like a typical Unix daemon. There's one central daemon for
all users on the system. If CUPS would be used like KDE uses MySQL,
every application had to start its own local copy of the CUPS daemon.
If MySQL is installed, this also means that self-compiled software
automatically finds the MySQL installation and compiles in support
for MySQL and links with MySQL libraries. This can have security
implications. Sure, most software may offer switches to disable
MySQL support, but how many people know that they now have a MySQL
server installation on their system? During the installation of
Fedora 10, most people haven't added any database packages. But
now all users with KDE silently get a MySQL server installation.
No matter if KDE's new dependency on MySQL is good or bad, it would
have been fair to make Fedora users aware of that significant change
to their system setup (that automatically comes with the updates).
Most people might not care (because they never compile anything
on their own, and they maybe don't even know what a "MySQL" is ;-)
but that should never be a valid reason to stop keeping those users
informed who actually care.
I'm absolutely sure there wasn't any bad intention.
However, there's room for improvement. ;-)
Greetings, Andreas
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
Em Ter 17 Fev 2009, Patrick O'Callaghan escreveu:
> On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 02:38 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > > Well, you learn something new every day. I was searching for
> > > Kabc,
> >
> > not
> >
> > > kabc.
> >
> > I didn't think yum search was case-sensitive, that may be a bug.
>
> I didn't use yum search. To absolutely sure, I used 'locate Kabc'. Of
> course I should have used 'locate -i kabc'.
>
> And in fact both 'yum search Kabc' and 'yum search kabc' turn up
> nothing. Which is not surprising given that Kabc (kabc) is not a
> package, it's part of kdepimlibs.
>
> > > I still don't use it though, nor Kontact, nor Knotes, nor Kmail.
> > > So
> >
> > why
> >
> > > am I running akonadi? I occasionally run Konqueror and Dolphin.
> >
> > Would
> >
> > > that explain it?
> >
> > I don't think so, then again I haven't noticed this akonadi as yet,
> > if it is running, it's been quiet.
>
> pgrep -fl akonadi
>
> poc
I don't have it running here, nor MySQL, and I use almost all kdepim
apps, including kabc.
[]'s
Marcelo
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Re: KDE 4.2 requires local MySQL Server
Andreas M. Kirchwitz wrote:
> If MySQL is installed, this also means that self-compiled software
> automatically finds the MySQL installation and compiles in support
> for MySQL and links with MySQL libraries.
Only if you have mysql-devel installed, which is not dragged in by KDE. They
can't link to MySQL without the -devel package. And if you have that -devel
package installed, they'll almost certainly link the client libs no matter
whether you have the server installed or not. (How else would use use them
with a server on a different machine?) So I don't see how having
mysql-server installed changes anything there.
Kevin Kofler
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