KWifiManager ?

[Dr. Edgar Alwers]

Hi,
after building KDE-4.3.0 I am trying to do the same on my laptop. I had to
realize, that kdenetwork do not more include a KWifiManager, as kde-3.5 did.
What shall we do ? googling, I found, that a Network-Manager in solid was to
be announced ( Aug. 2008 ). Later, some comments indicates the existence of a
widget, that takes over the tasks of KWifiManager. However, the only thing I
found in the add widgets plasma was a network usage monitor.
No  question, I can continue using my old  kwifimanager and my old wpa-
supplicant  from kde-3.5 to perform my communications. But is this the kde-4
solution ? As I do not think so, can somebody tell me more or less what steps
I shall do ?
Thank very much,
Edgar
--
----------------------
Dr. Edgar Alwers
Weinheim
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[James Tyrer]

Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:

> Hi,
> after building KDE-4.3.0 I am trying to do the same on my laptop. I had to
> realize, that kdenetwork do not more include a KWifiManager, as kde-3.5 did.
> What shall we do ? googling, I found, that a Network-Manager in solid was to
> be announced ( Aug. 2008 ). Later, some comments indicates the existence of a
> widget, that takes over the tasks of KWifiManager. However, the only thing I
> found in the add widgets plasma was a network usage monitor.
> No  question, I can continue using my old  kwifimanager and my old wpa-
> supplicant  from kde-3.5 to perform my communications. But is this the kde-4
> solution ? As I do not think so, can somebody tell me more or less what steps
> I shall do ?

Sorry to say that I don't have a network.  An optional dependency for
KDEBase is the the NetworkManager program:

http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/

Do you have this installed?  Note that this is a daemon and must be
started after the DHCP (if you are using that).

Sorry that I haven't tried it, but from what the documentation says,
this should find your wireless network for you.

--
James Tyrer

Linux (mostly) From Scratch
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[Duncan-2]

James Tyrer posted on Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:47:11 -0700 as excerpted:

> Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
>> Hi,
>> after building KDE-4.3.0 I am trying to do the same on my laptop. I had
>> to realize, that kdenetwork do not more include a KWifiManager, as
>> kde-3.5 did. What shall we do ? googling, I found, that a
>> Network-Manager in solid was to be announced ( Aug. 2008 ). Later, some
>> comments indicates the existence of a widget, that takes over the tasks
>> of KWifiManager. However, the only thing I found in the add widgets
>> plasma was a network usage monitor. No  question, I can continue using
>> my old  kwifimanager and my old wpa- supplicant  from kde-3.5 to
>> perform my communications. But is this the kde-4 solution ? As I do not
>> think so, can somebody tell me more or less what steps I shall do ?
>
> Sorry to say that I don't have a network.  An optional dependency for
> KDEBase is the the NetworkManager program:
>
> http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
>
> Do you have this installed?  Note that this is a daemon and must be
> started after the DHCP (if you are using that).
>
> Sorry that I haven't tried it, but from what the documentation says,
> this should find your wireless network for you.

I have a netbook, but I've not done a whole lot with it.  My main machine
is a full-tower system, so not particularly portable, and no wifi.

That said, from various threads I've seen, at least earlier kde4's
solution wasn't particularly usable for many people -- it wouldn't
connect, or would connect only under limited conditions (low/no
encryption/authorization, etc).  Not actually /having/ one I use wifi on,
I've not the foggiest whether those bugs are fixed with 4.3.1/4.3.2, but
certainly there were bugs still around in the 4.2.4 timeframe.

So it may be that your distribution or whatever isn't shipping it, or if
it is, the default is still the kde3 solution (if they are setup to be
installable in parallel as it appears they are on your distribution).  
Again, I've no current 4.3.1/.2 info, but you may be better off leaving
well enough alone for the time being.  Barring a response from someone
who actually knows the current situation, I'd recommend trying again
(IOW, that's what I'd do if it were me and I wasn't trying every time I
updated something) about 4.4, which is slated for February.  Of course if
you're using distro supplied packages, it'd be their update after that...

--
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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[Werner Joss]

Am Thursday 08 October 2009 22:55:28 schrieb Dr. Edgar Alwers:

> after building KDE-4.3.0 I am trying to do the same on my laptop. I had to
> realize, that kdenetwork do not more include a KWifiManager, as kde-3.5
> did. What shall we do ? googling, I found, that a Network-Manager in solid
> was to be announced ( Aug. 2008 ). Later, some comments indicates the
> existence of a widget, that takes over the tasks of KWifiManager. However,
> the only thing I found in the add widgets plasma was a network usage
> monitor.
> No  question, I can continue using my old  kwifimanager and my old wpa-
> supplicant  from kde-3.5 to perform my communications. But is this the
> kde-4 solution ? As I do not think so, can somebody tell me more or less
> what steps I shall do ?

I recommend to give wicd - http://wicd.sourceforge.net/ a try, works much
better than any kde based wifimanager I've ever come around.

werner

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[Anne Wilson-5]

On Friday 09 October 2009 05:58:16 Duncan wrote:
> That said, from various threads I've seen, at least earlier kde4's
> solution wasn't particularly usable for many people -- it wouldn't
> connect, or would connect only under limited conditions (low/no
> encryption/authorization, etc)
>
My netbook and laptop both have wifi.  My experience is that the source of the
wifi signal seems to be the problem.  This laptop, for instance, can connect
to public networks.  It can connect to the main router in my LAN, but it can't
connect to the same-brand router, that is set up as a switch and wireless
repeater, here in another part of the building.  Theoretically they are both
putting out the same signal, same encryption, same passphrase.  In practice
there must be a difference in the implementation of WPA-PSK.

The original NetworkManager applet was never reliable for me.  Recently I got
the new knetworkmanager applet, which seems rather better.  For instance, with
the old applet I used to have problems every time I switched from an 'other'
network back to my own.  That doesn't seem to happen now.  At monthly meetings
I use my netbook to connect to "The Cloud" network, and when I set up at home
again it connects immediately to my own network, so I'm much happier with it.  
I would think that the underlying code must be the same, but something is
definitely better than it was.

As Werner said, wicd is also very good.

Anne
--
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[Kevin Krammer]

On Thursday, 2009-10-08, Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:

> Hi,
> after building KDE-4.3.0 I am trying to do the same on my laptop. I had to
> realize, that kdenetwork do not more include a KWifiManager, as kde-3.5
>  did. What shall we do ? googling, I found, that a Network-Manager in solid
>  was to be announced ( Aug. 2008 ). Later, some comments indicates the
>  existence of a widget, that takes over the tasks of KWifiManager. However,
>  the only thing I found in the add widgets plasma was a network usage
>  monitor.
> No  question, I can continue using my old  kwifimanager and my old wpa-
> supplicant  from kde-3.5 to perform my communications. But is this the
>  kde-4 solution ? As I do not think so, can somebody tell me more or less
>  what steps I shall do ?

Since I already had a networkmanager based setup in KDE3 I continued using
that on KDE4, i.e. using the KDE3 KNetworkManager GUI for controlling the
NetworkManager system service.

Some distributions already package the Plasma based networkmanager GUI so
users of those should be able to use this instead.

Cheers,
Kevin
--
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KDE user support, developer mentoring


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[Dr. Edgar Alwers]

On Friday 09 October 2009 00:47:11 James Tyrer wrote:

> Sorry to say that I don't have a network.  An optional dependency for
> KDEBase is the the NetworkManager program:
>
> http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
>
Unfortunately, this program does only compile for one of eight distros. I am
building my system by my own ( Linux From Scratch ), and the program does not
build !!
BTW: I hope this is an error and a unique case ! I do not like _absolutely_
the idea, to be dependent of a distro when using Linux ! It looks for me like
the first step to a windows-surrogat !

Edgar

--
----------------------
Dr. Edgar Alwers
Weinheim
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[Anne Wilson-5]

On Friday 09 October 2009 12:44:40 Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:

> On Friday 09 October 2009 00:47:11 James Tyrer wrote:
> > Sorry to say that I don't have a network.  An optional dependency for
> > KDEBase is the the NetworkManager program:
> >
> > http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
>
> Unfortunately, this program does only compile for one of eight distros. I
>  am building my system by my own ( Linux From Scratch ), and the program
>  does not build !!
> BTW: I hope this is an error and a unique case ! I do not like _absolutely_
> the idea, to be dependent of a distro when using Linux ! It looks for me
>  like the first step to a windows-surrogat !
>

This is a complete misunderstanding of the world of linux.  You would be no

more dependent on a distro than you are dependent on a detergent brand to do
your laundry.  You may choose the convenience of pre-prepared packages in a
distro, but the underlying linux is the same, and every application that runs
on one distro will also run on another (except, of course, where you are
running a development or testing version, when a different version may not be
quite as state-of-the-art).  None of your data is affected by the distro of
your choice.

Anne
--
New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
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[Dale-46]

Anne Wilson wrote:

> On Friday 09 October 2009 12:44:40 Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
>  
>> On Friday 09 October 2009 00:47:11 James Tyrer wrote:
>>    
>>> Sorry to say that I don't have a network.  An optional dependency for
>>> KDEBase is the the NetworkManager program:
>>>
>>> http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
>>>      
>> Unfortunately, this program does only compile for one of eight distros. I
>>  am building my system by my own ( Linux From Scratch ), and the program
>>  does not build !!
>> BTW: I hope this is an error and a unique case ! I do not like _absolutely_
>> the idea, to be dependent of a distro when using Linux ! It looks for me
>>  like the first step to a windows-surrogat !
>>
>>    
> This is a complete misunderstanding of the world of linux.  You would be no
> more dependent on a distro than you are dependent on a detergent brand to do
> your laundry.  You may choose the convenience of pre-prepared packages in a
> distro, but the underlying linux is the same, and every application that runs
> on one distro will also run on another (except, of course, where you are
> running a development or testing version, when a different version may not be
> quite as state-of-the-art).  None of your data is affected by the distro of
> your choice.
>
> Anne
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________
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> Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
> More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.

I agree.  I use Gentoo.  Lets just say I got tired of Gentoo or Gentoo
went belly up, I could install some other distro while saving my /home
partition and wouldn't lose anything at all.  The new distro would be
different but I wouldn't have to worry about losing any data at all.   I
can't say that about windoze tho.

If you like Linux from Scratch, then you should look into Gentoo.
Gentoo is basically LFS but with a really nice package manager.  I been
using Gentoo since about 2004 and it is really nice.

Dale

:-)  :-)

P. S.  Anne, I left that part below your name on purpose since I know
you are working on that issue.  Your sig is gone but it left the rest.
May be on my end tho.  I don't know.  Seamonkey user here.
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[Anne Wilson-5]

On Friday 09 October 2009 14:01:20 Dale wrote:

>
> P. S.  Anne, I left that part below your name on purpose since I know
> you are working on that issue.  Your sig is gone but it left the rest.
> May be on my end tho.  I don't know.  Seamonkey user here.
> ___________________________________________________
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>

Hi Dale.  This is the second time someone has said that, and in both cases

Seamonkey was being used.  What's more, when I reply to yours the same thing
happens - see above.

I think you should file a bug against Seamonkey.  If they don't know there's a
problem they can't fix it ;-)  I rather think that it's a recent bug.  I don't
think that Seamonkey has been a problem in the past.

Anne
--
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[Dale-46]

Anne Wilson wrote:

> On Friday 09 October 2009 14:01:20 Dale wrote:
>  
>> P. S.  Anne, I left that part below your name on purpose since I know
>> you are working on that issue.  Your sig is gone but it left the rest.
>> May be on my end tho.  I don't know.  Seamonkey user here.
>> ___________________________________________________
>> This message is from the kde-linux mailing list.
>> Account management:  https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-linux.
>> Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
>> More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
>>
>>    
> Hi Dale.  This is the second time someone has said that, and in both cases
> Seamonkey was being used.  What's more, when I reply to yours the same thing
> happens - see above.
>
> I think you should file a bug against Seamonkey.  If they don't know there's a
> problem they can't fix it ;-)  I rather think that it's a recent bug.  I don't
> think that Seamonkey has been a problem in the past.
>
> Anne
>  

Hmmmm, I really wouldn't know what to tell them in the bug.  I was sort
of suspicious that it may be something we are using to reply with rather
than what you are doing.  I think it has something to do with that
little line that is between your name and the KDE mailing list
addition.  I think it "confuses" Seamonkey and some relatives of it.

Anyway, I deleted it this time.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)
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[James Tyrer]

Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:

> On Friday 09 October 2009 00:47:11 James Tyrer wrote:
>
>> Sorry to say that I don't have a network.  An optional dependency for
>> KDEBase is the the NetworkManager program:
>>
>> http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
>>
> Unfortunately, this program does only compile for one of eight distros. I am
> building my system by my own ( Linux From Scratch ), and the program does not
> build !!

If you are having problems building version: 0.7.1, get this patch:

http://svn.cross-lfs.org/svn/repos/patches/NetworkManager/NetworkManager-0.7.1-clfs_support-1.patch

> BTW: I hope this is an error and a unique case ! I do not like _absolutely_
> the idea, to be dependent of a distro when using Linux ! It looks for me like
> the first step to a windows-surrogat !
>
You can built it with: "--with-distro=lfs" and it will build.  However,
it will *not* install a script in: /etc/rc.d/init.d and I don't think
that anyone has contributed one, so you will have to make your own by
modifying one in the bootscripts tarball.  You will also need to
configure it using: "ksysv".  Note that there is NO KDE-4 version.  I
set the start priority to 10 and the kill to 90.

If you are not familiar with doing this, you can build with
"--with-distro=redhat" and then modify the file:
/etc/rc.d/init.d/NetworkManager so that it is like the other init.d scripts.

There are instructions for building here:

http://cblfs.cross-lfs.org/index.php/NetworkManager

but no installation instructions that I can find.

--
James Tyrer

Linux (mostly) From Scratch
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[Dr. Edgar Alwers]

On Friday 09 October 2009 14:12:55 Anne Wilson wrote:
>
> This is a complete misunderstanding of the world of linux.  You would be no
> more dependent on a distro than you are dependent on a detergent brand to
> do your laundry.  You may choose the convenience of pre-prepared packages
> in a distro, but the underlying linux is the same, and every application
> that runs on one distro will also run on another (except, of course, where
> you are running a development or testing version, when a different version
> may not be quite as state-of-the-art).  None of your data is affected by
> the distro of your choice.

Hi Anne,

"This is a complete misunderstanding of the world of linux"

As I think, that we should have a common base of understanding, if we continue
handling questions/problems of Linux in this mailing list, I would like to
inform you about some facts. I am working with linux since nearly ten years. I
started with distributions ( SuSE's, Red-Hat's, Ubuntus etc. ) and went later
to "Linux From the Scratch". This is not a distribution, but a system allowing
you to build  "taylored" that what you need, program by program, and discard
that what you don't. I am not a "newbie"
There is a significant number of users building their own systems, see for
example James Tyrer. Among other adventages, with this system you learn to
understand more and more the structure of Linux..

Short: you do not need to explain me what distros are.

Now, comming down to our problem: no matter what a software package you need,
in all cases I know, you will find specific distros packages, _and_ a source
code ( *.tar.gz ) package for people like me, compiling from the sources.

Up to now, I have only seen one package, "NetworkManager", which specifically
claims for a distribution in order to allow compilation. It shows a "make
error", if you dont have a distro. This is _not _ the normal behaviour
building Linux, and I hope you understand what I am talking about. If I
install a distro, for sure I will have a communication manager included. But
if I am building a "scratch" system, such a  "NetworkManager" wired to a
distro is useless.

This said, and I hope on a future objective discussion:  What is KDE-4 at the
moment offering as a "Wifi-Manager" ? It is not at all a problem, if the
answer is " we are on the way", but please, do not bore me with detergents
brands.

Regards,
Edgar

--
----------------------
Dr. Edgar Alwers
Weinheim
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[Rajko M.]

On Friday 09 October 2009 12:34:12 Dale wrote:
...
> Hmmmm, I really wouldn't know what to tell them in the bug.  

It seems that Seamonkey deletes from "-- " (dash dash space) to next
occurrence of dashes. In private emails it is start of GPG Signature that
should be preserved, but it forgets to check for mail list footer, that is
appended after end of GPG block. In other words it doesn't delete anything
after signature.

To check this I appended some text where  usually goes GPG signature.
If it is not deleted then it is above case, if it is deleted then problem is
with procedure that deals with GPG, ie. it doesn't return properly and the
rest is not deleted.

--
Regards, Rajko

People of openSUSE editor.
Latest interviews: http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/
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--------------------
This should stay
--------------------
And this too
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[Rajko M.]

On Friday 09 October 2009 02:21:22 Werner Joss wrote:
...
> I recommend to give wicd - http://wicd.sourceforge.net/ a try, works much
> better than any kde based wifimanager I've ever come around.

Try the newest incarnation of Knetworkmanager it needs some work on UI, but it
is functional. I have no problems to connect to my network. Will did a goo
job.  
 

--
Regards, Rajko

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[Dale-46]

Rajko M. wrote:

> On Friday 09 October 2009 12:34:12 Dale wrote:
> ...
>  
>> Hmmmm, I really wouldn't know what to tell them in the bug.  
>>    
>
> It seems that Seamonkey deletes from "-- " (dash dash space) to next
> occurrence of dashes. In private emails it is start of GPG Signature that
> should be preserved, but it forgets to check for mail list footer, that is
> appended after end of GPG block. In other words it doesn't delete anything
> after signature.
>
> To check this I appended some text where  usually goes GPG signature.
> If it is not deleted then it is above case, if it is deleted then problem is
> with procedure that deals with GPG, ie. it doesn't return properly and the
> rest is not deleted.
>
>  

I'm replying so you can see what it did when I hit reply.  Is this what
you expected?  I hit reply but did not delete anything at all.

Dale

:-)  :-)
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[Duncan-2]

Rajko M. posted on Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:36:58 -0500 as excerpted:

> On Friday 09 October 2009 12:34:12 Dale wrote: ...
>> Hmmmm, I really wouldn't know what to tell them in the bug.
>
> It seems that Seamonkey deletes from "-- " (dash dash space) to next
> occurrence of dashes. In private emails it is start of GPG Signature
> that should be preserved, but it forgets to check for mail list footer,
> that is appended after end of GPG block. In other words it doesn't
> delete anything after signature.
>
> To check this I appended some text where  usually goes GPG signature. If
> it is not deleted then it is above case, if it is deleted then problem
> is with procedure that deals with GPG, ie. it doesn't return properly
> and the rest is not deleted.

In another thread "we" (someone else mentioned it but I believe it's
correct) decided that it's the interaction between MIME parts and
signatures.  The "list signature" aka "mail list footer" is appended as
another MIME part, and apparently attached as-is, while everything below
the sig delimiter in the main text is deleted as signature.

But the additional MIME parts shouldn't be appended on the reply, and
they are.  I think that's the bug.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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[Anne Wilson-5]

On Friday 09 October 2009 22:12:11 Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
> There is a significant number of users building their own systems, see for
> example James Tyrer. Among other adventages, with this system you learn to
> understand more and more the structure of Linux..
>
> Short: you do not need to explain me what distros are.
>
Sorry, but clearly I do.  You spoke of monopoly-like dependency on a distro.  
Not only does that not exist, it is impossible for it to do so.  The very fact
that you can build your own from scratch proves that.

> Now, comming down to our problem: no matter what a software package you
>  need,  in all cases I know, you will find specific distros packages, and a
>  source code ( *.tar.gz ) package for people like me, compiling from the
>  sources.
>
Exactly.  You are not dependent on them, you can build your own.

> Up to now, I have only seen one package, "NetworkManager", which
>  specifically  claims for a distribution in order to allow compilation. It
>  shows a "make error", if you dont have a distro. This is _not _ the normal
>  behaviour building Linux, and I hope you understand what I am talking
>  about. If I install a distro, for sure I will have a communication manager
>  included. But if I am building a "scratch" system, such
>  a  "NetworkManager" wired to a distro is useless.
>
Since I do not build my own, I can't tell you where to find the source.

> This said, and I hope on a future objective discussion:  What is KDE-4 at
>  the  moment offering as a "Wifi-Manager" ? It is not at all a problem, if
>  the answer is " we are on the way", but please, do not bore me with
>  detergents brands.
>
I won't bore you at all.  Since you know best, you can google and find it.

Anne
--
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[Dale-46]

Dr. Edgar Alwers wrote:
>
> Now, comming down to our problem: no matter what a software package you need,
> in all cases I know, you will find specific distros packages, _and_ a source
> code ( *.tar.gz ) package for people like me, compiling from the sources.
> Regards,
> Edgar
>
>  

This is not accurate.  Gentoo for example uses the source code.  Some
packages may have a patch or fix applied but the core is the source code
itself.  You now know of one case where the source code is used and
there is a distro that uses those sources to build from.

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo

According to this link there are a few other distros that are source based:

http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=Source-based

Dale

:-)  :-)
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[Rajko M.]

On Friday 09 October 2009 21:21:36 Dale wrote:

> Rajko M. wrote:
> > On Friday 09 October 2009 12:34:12 Dale wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >> Hmmmm, I really wouldn't know what to tell them in the bug.
> >
> > It seems that Seamonkey deletes from "-- " (dash dash space) to next
> > occurrence of dashes. In private emails it is start of GPG Signature that
> > should be preserved, but it forgets to check for mail list footer, that
> > is appended after end of GPG block. In other words it doesn't delete
> > anything after signature.
> >
> > To check this I appended some text where  usually goes GPG signature.
> > If it is not deleted then it is above case, if it is deleted then problem
> > is with procedure that deals with GPG, ie. it doesn't return properly and
> > the rest is not deleted.
>

Well, this space would contain my addendum and KDE list message if my
signature separator would not exist.

> I'm replying so you can see what it did when I hit reply.  Is this what
> you expected?  I hit reply but did not delete anything at all.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
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>

This is whole message that I can see.
You have no signature separator and it is fully quoted including mail list
footer. The mail list footer should have the same signature separator (dash
dash space) to be deleted. This list doesn't use that, but line of underscores
and that is treated as part of the message.  

As above part of my message after signature is deleted, and Anne's is not
something is wrong with Seamonkey treatment of mails that contain GPG
signature (by the way Thunderbird is doing exactly the same), so that is what
you can write in bug report for the Seamonkey.

That world is far from perfect, tells list of mime types in Anne's mail,
showed in KMail. It is listed like this:
-Body (nothing, just container)
--internal part (actual message)
--digitally signed message part (gpg signature)
-body part (the KDE ML footer)

It can be that Seamonkey and Thunderbird actually do correct job, and KMail
flaky, removing something that is marked as part of the message body.
On the other hand, it should not happen to consider as part of the message
body something appended after the GPG.
GPG signature and attachments are appended when mail is sent out, so there is
no chance that there is user message after that part.



--
Regards, Rajko

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