List Filtering - NNTP

[NoOp-4]

Posted a followup in "List moderators" thread, but figure that this
deserves it's own subject/thread as the findings will affect list users
that use nntp servers to read/respond to the list (gmane.org, nabble,
etc) and attempt to filter unsubscribed users via the 'Delivered-To'
headers - particularly those that will be using mozilla (haven't tested
on others) nntp Thunderbird 3.0 and SeaMonkey 2.0 clients.

(Paul & hope that you and other moderators can carry this msg to the
Collabnet folks).

As I understand the situation:

1. Currently when an unsubscribed user posts to the list a duplicate
'Delivered-To' header is created containing: Delivered-To: moderator for
users@...

So the msg contains two headers:
Delivered-To: mailing list users@...
Delivered-To: moderator for users@...

Filtering on these duplicates may work in an email client, but when
filtering on nntp, the client only filters on what is returned from the
nntp server. Mozilla get the following from the nntp gmane.org server on
a 'moderator' msg:

> This is what the news server tells us:
> XHDR Delivered-To 201827
> 221 Delivered-To matches follow (art)
> 201827 mailing list users@...
> .
>
> We only see that one, sole, single header. Indeed, the spec requires the news
> server to only show us that one header.

See:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16913#c101
[ Filter news based on any headers ]
for details.

2. Perhaps if openoffice.org/collabnet didn't use a duplicate
'Delivered-To' header, and instead changed the second header to
'Delivered-To-Moderator' the issue might be resolved.




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[Hall, Ray]

I don't know how I got on this mailing list?  I'm not a programmer, I just wanted to find out why when I created a document I could not read it with Microsoft Word.  I was told that OpenWord might solve some of the problems I'm having with Office Pro. (inconsistency with formatting commands).



I sent a message back to the computer to take me off the mailing list, but obviously I don't understand how to accomplish that.  If you can help please do so.

Ray Hall

chiefhawk@...



-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:news@...] On Behalf Of NoOp
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:31 PM
To: users@...
Subject: [users] List Filtering - NNTP



Posted a followup in "List moderators" thread, but figure that this

deserves it's own subject/thread as the findings will affect list users

that use nntp servers to read/respond to the list (gmane.org, nabble,

etc) and attempt to filter unsubscribed users via the 'Delivered-To'

headers - particularly those that will be using mozilla (haven't tested

on others) nntp Thunderbird 3.0 and SeaMonkey 2.0 clients.



(Paul & hope that you and other moderators can carry this msg to the

Collabnet folks).



As I understand the situation:



1. Currently when an unsubscribed user posts to the list a duplicate

'Delivered-To' header is created containing: Delivered-To: moderator for

users@...



So the msg contains two headers:

Delivered-To: mailing list users@...

Delivered-To: moderator for users@...



Filtering on these duplicates may work in an email client, but when

filtering on nntp, the client only filters on what is returned from the

nntp server. Mozilla get the following from the nntp gmane.org server on

a 'moderator' msg:



> This is what the news server tells us:

> XHDR Delivered-To 201827

> 221 Delivered-To matches follow (art)

> 201827 mailing list users@...

> .

>

> We only see that one, sole, single header. Indeed, the spec requires the news

> server to only show us that one header.



See:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16913#c101

[ Filter news based on any headers ]

for details.



2. Perhaps if openoffice.org/collabnet didn't use a duplicate

'Delivered-To' header, and instead changed the second header to

'Delivered-To-Moderator' the issue might be resolved.









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[Barbara Duprey]

Hall, Ray wrote:
> I don't know how I got on this mailing list?  I'm not a programmer, I just wanted to find out why when I created a document I could not read it with Microsoft Word.  I was told that OpenWord might solve some of the problems I'm having with Office Pro. (inconsistency with formatting commands).
>
>
>
> I sent a message back to the computer to take me off the mailing list, but obviously I don't understand how to accomplish that.  If you can help please do so.
>
> Ray Hall
>
> chiefhawk@...

Ray, please get with me off-list (barb@...) -- I'm trying to follow
up with people who have trouble unsubscribing. You can't really send a
message back to "the computer" but only to us, the users on this mailing
list, and we have no authority or capability to unsubscribe you. But if
you haven't yet done so, send a message (from the same account you used
here, chiefhawk@...) to users-unsubscribe@....

This mailing list is not intended for programmers, by the way -- just
for people who are using the OpenOffice.org software and are asking and
answering questions about that. Presumably you've already been told that
basically, you have to use "Save As" into an MS Office filetype in order
to have documents created by OOo usable from the MS Office equivalents.

As I said, please get back to me off-list. We really need to understand
how somebody can be subscribed here without knowing how!


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[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:54:55 -0600
Barbara Duprey <Barb@...> wrote:

Hello Barbara,

> As I said, please get back to me off-list. We really need to
> understand how somebody can be subscribed here without knowing how!

Ray isn't subscribed to to the list, Barbara;  Check his headers.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

Well well well, you just can't tell
My Michelle - Guns 'N' Roses

[Barbara Duprey]

Barbara Duprey wrote:

> Hall, Ray wrote:
>> I don't know how I got on this mailing list?  I'm not a programmer, I
>> just wanted to find out why when I created a document I could not
>> read it with Microsoft Word.  I was told that OpenWord might solve
>> some of the problems I'm having with Office Pro. (inconsistency with
>> formatting commands).
>>
>>
>>
>> I sent a message back to the computer to take me off the mailing
>> list, but obviously I don't understand how to accomplish that.  If
>> you can help please do so.
>>
>> Ray Hall
>>
>> chiefhawk@...
>
> Ray, please get with me off-list (barb@...) -- I'm trying to
> follow up with people who have trouble unsubscribing. You can't really
> send a message back to "the computer" but only to us, the users on
> this mailing list, and we have no authority or capability to
> unsubscribe you. But if you haven't yet done so, send a message (from
> the same account you used here, chiefhawk@...) to
> users-unsubscribe@....
>
> This mailing list is not intended for programmers, by the way -- just
> for people who are using the OpenOffice.org software and are asking
> and answering questions about that. Presumably you've already been
> told that basically, you have to use "Save As" into an MS Office
> filetype in order to have documents created by OOo usable from the MS
> Office equivalents.
>
> As I said, please get back to me off-list. We really need to
> understand how somebody can be subscribed here without knowing how!

Ray, sorry to have misled you there. The chiefhawk@...
account is not the one that was subscribed; you'll have to find out what
account actually was, first. If you expand the header for one of the
messages coming to you from the list, the subscribed account is named in
the Return-Path header (with an equals sign instead of an at sign -- the
indirect form of the address). Suppose that's ray@.... Then you
can send a message to users-unsubscribe-ray=otherisp.com@...
from any account. If all goes according to plan, you'll soon get a
confirmation message to which you can respond. If not, we can pursue
this off-list.

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[James Knott]

Hall, Ray wrote:
> I don't know how I got on this mailing list?  I'm not a programmer, I just wanted to find out why when I created a document I could not read it with Microsoft Word.  I was told that OpenWord might solve some of the problems I'm having with Office Pro. (inconsistency with formatting commands).
>    
This list is for OpenOffice.org users, who try to help other users.  As
for your problem, by default, OpenOffice Writer saves in the ISO
standard ODT format, which Microsoft Office, other than the latest
version, cannot read.  You'll have to select the appropriate Word
format, from the drop down list, when you use "Save as".  Also, ensure
automatic file name extension is selected.  You can also enable support
for ODF files in Microsoft Office, by using the Sun ODF plugin.

Sun ODF Plugin:
http://www.sun.com/software/star/odf_plugin

Using Sun ODF Plugin with Office 2007 & SP2
http://blogs.sun.com/malte/entry/using_the_sun_odf_plugin

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[John Kaufmann]

In a message dated 2009.11.08 16:11 -0500, Barbara Duprey wrote:

>> Hall, Ray wrote:
>>> I don't know how I got on this mailing list? ...
>>
>> Ray, please get with me off-list (barb@...) ... We really need to
>> understand how somebody can be subscribed here without knowing how!

Barbara, thanks so much for going off-list to get answers. Facts are key
to curing this illness, and gathering facts off-list helps the list
without the pain of additional traffic.

Also, I did not know that unsubscribing could be initiated from a
different address than the subscribed address:

> ... If you expand the header for one of the messages coming to you
> from the list, the subscribed account is named in the Return-Path
> header (with an equals sign instead of an at sign -- the indirect
> form of the address). Suppose that's ray@.... Then you can
> send a message to users-unsubscribe-ray=otherisp.com@...
> from any account. If all goes according to plan, you'll soon get a
> confirmation message to which you can respond.

Thanks for that tip. I would have said to look at the "Delivered-To:"
header, but your use of the "Return-Path:" header gives a syntax for
unsubscribing from wherever Ray is. OTOH, I don't get how Ray receives
mail at an address other than the one subscribed.

John

  If not, we can pursue
> this off-list.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>
>

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[Barbara Duprey]

John Kaufmann wrote:

> In a message dated 2009.11.08 16:11 -0500, Barbara Duprey wrote:
>
>>> Hall, Ray wrote:
>>>> I don't know how I got on this mailing list? ...
>>>
>>> Ray, please get with me off-list (barb@...) ... We really need
>>> to understand how somebody can be subscribed here without knowing how!
>
> Barbara, thanks so much for going off-list to get answers. Facts are
> key to curing this illness, and gathering facts off-list helps the
> list without the pain of additional traffic.
>
> Also, I did not know that unsubscribing could be initiated from a
> different address than the subscribed address:
>
>> ... If you expand the header for one of the messages coming to you
>> from the list, the subscribed account is named in the Return-Path
>> header (with an equals sign instead of an at sign -- the indirect
>> form of the address). Suppose that's ray@.... Then you can
>> send a message to users-unsubscribe-ray=otherisp.com@...
>> from any account. If all goes according to plan, you'll soon get a
>> confirmation message to which you can respond.
>
> Thanks for that tip. I would have said to look at the "Delivered-To:"
> header, but your use of the "Return-Path:" header gives a syntax for
> unsubscribing from wherever Ray is. OTOH, I don't get how Ray receives
> mail at an address other than the one subscribed.
>
> John
>
>  If not, we can pursue
>> this off-list.

There's got to be some sort of pass-through mechanism involved. Such
things exist, generally under an ISP's control for temporary use when an
account is moving, but the actual circumstances here need to be pinned
down. By the way, I got that information by looking at the
communications I got when unsubscribing/resubscribing to the list. In
trying to find the specific reference, I just looked at the subscribe
confirmation -- and found the following fascinating information:

To receive all messages with the same subject as message 12345,
send an empty message to:
   <users-thread.12345@...>

Something else for me to play with here!


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[NoOp-4]

Sigh... I rest my case.
Delivered-To: mailing list users@...
Delivered-To: moderator for users@...



On 11/07/2009 09:22 PM, Hall, Ray wrote:

> I don't know how I got on this mailing list?  I'm not a programmer, I
> just wanted to find out why when I created a document I could not
> read it with Microsoft Word.  I was told that OpenWord might solve
> some of the problems I'm having with Office Pro. (inconsistency with
> formatting commands).
>
>
>
> I sent a message back to the computer to take me off the mailing
> list, but obviously I don't understand how to accomplish that.  If
> you can help please do so.
>
> Ray Hall
>
> chiefhawk@...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: news [mailto:news@...] On
> Behalf Of NoOp Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:31 PM To:
> users@... Subject: [users] List Filtering - NNTP
>
>
>
> Posted a followup in "List moderators" thread, but figure that this
>
> deserves it's own subject/thread as the findings will affect list
> users
>
> that use nntp servers to read/respond to the list (gmane.org,
> nabble,
>
> etc) and attempt to filter unsubscribed users via the 'Delivered-To'
>
> headers - particularly those that will be using mozilla (haven't
> tested
>
> on others) nntp Thunderbird 3.0 and SeaMonkey 2.0 clients.
>
>
>
> (Paul & hope that you and other moderators can carry this msg to the
>
> Collabnet folks).
>
>
>
> As I understand the situation:
>
>
>
> 1. Currently when an unsubscribed user posts to the list a duplicate
>
> 'Delivered-To' header is created containing: Delivered-To: moderator
> for
>
> users@...
>
>
>
> So the msg contains two headers:
>
> Delivered-To: mailing list users@...
>
> Delivered-To: moderator for users@...
>
>
>
> Filtering on these duplicates may work in an email client, but when
>
> filtering on nntp, the client only filters on what is returned from
> the
>
> nntp server. Mozilla get the following from the nntp gmane.org server
> on
>
> a 'moderator' msg:
>
>
>
>> This is what the news server tells us:
>
>> XHDR Delivered-To 201827
>
>> 221 Delivered-To matches follow (art)
>
>> 201827 mailing list users@...
>
>> .
>
>>
>
>> We only see that one, sole, single header. Indeed, the spec
>> requires the news
>
>> server to only show us that one header.
>
>
>
> See:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16913#c101
>
> [ Filter news based on any headers ]
>
> for details.
>
>
>
> 2. Perhaps if openoffice.org/collabnet didn't use a duplicate
>
> 'Delivered-To' header, and instead changed the second header to
>
> 'Delivered-To-Moderator' the issue might be resolved.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@...
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@...
>
>
>

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