Locking toolbars by default

Hi,

just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
often (if at all).
So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
I tried this for a few days and I must say it feels good, because it removes
the toolbar move handlers and thus some of the visual clutter.

Any thoughts on this?
I hope this doesn't turn into some sort of bikeshedding.

Cheers,
Frederik

On Tuesday 10 November 2009, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:

> Hi,
>
> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
> often (if at all).
> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
> I tried this for a few days and I must say it feels good, because it
>  removes
>
> the toolbar move handlers and thus some of the visual clutter.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
> I hope this doesn't turn into some sort of bikeshedding.
>

i like it and i always lock them, but is just a personal opinion and i don't
have data to say whether is good or bad

Cheers,
Marco Martin

On Tuesday, 10. November 2009 20:53:56 Frederik Gladhorn wrote:

> Hi,
>
> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
> often (if at all).
> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
> I tried this for a few days and I must say it feels good, because it
> removes
>
> the toolbar move handlers and thus some of the visual clutter.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
> I hope this doesn't turn into some sort of bikeshedding.

+1

I once wanted to ask this question too for KDE 4.2, but feared a lot of
bikeshedding ;-)

>
> Cheers,
> Frederik

[Hugo Pereira Da Costa]

On 11/10/2009 01:04 PM, Marco Martin wrote:
> On Tuesday 10 November 2009, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:
>    
>> Hi,
>>
>> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
>> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
>> often (if at all).
>> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
>>      
+1
(locking the toolbars is the first thing I do when starting an apps
after fresh kde install)

>> I tried this for a few days and I must say it feels good, because it
>>   removes
>>
>> the toolbar move handlers and thus some of the visual clutter.
>>
>> Any thoughts on this?
>> I hope this doesn't turn into some sort of bikeshedding.
>>
>>      
> i like it and i always lock them, but is just a personal opinion and i don't
> have data to say whether is good or bad
>
> Cheers,
> Marco Martin
>    

[Frank Karlitschek]

On 10.11.2009, at 21:11, Peter Penz wrote:

> On Tuesday, 10. November 2009 20:53:56 Frederik Gladhorn wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
>> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
>> often (if at all).
>> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
>> I tried this for a few days and I must say it feels good, because it
>> removes
>>
>> the toolbar move handlers and thus some of the visual clutter.
>>
>> Any thoughts on this?
>> I hope this doesn't turn into some sort of bikeshedding.
>
> +1
>
> I once wanted to ask this question too for KDE 4.2, but feared a lot of
> bikeshedding ;-)

+1


Cheers
Frank



--
Frank Karlitschek
karlitschek@...

[Aurélien Gâteau-3]

Frederik Gladhorn a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
> often (if at all).
> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
> I tried this for a few days and I must say it feels good, because it removes
>
> the toolbar move handlers and thus some of the visual clutter.

I would like this as well.

Aurélien

+1. ( after deleting all toolbars in kopete, I lock all toolbars too )

On Tuesday, 10 de November de 2009 20:23:42 Hugo Pereira Da Costa wrote:

> On 11/10/2009 01:04 PM, Marco Martin wrote:
> > On Tuesday 10 November 2009, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
> >> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
> >> often (if at all).
> >> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
>
> +1
> (locking the toolbars is the first thing I do when starting an apps
> after fresh kde install)

+1  and btw text alongside icons looks 10 times better fits best wide windows
saves vertical space

> >> I tried this for a few days and I must say it feels good, because it
> >>   removes
> >>
> >> the toolbar move handlers and thus some of the visual clutter.
> >>
> >> Any thoughts on this?
> >> I hope this doesn't turn into some sort of bikeshedding.
> >
> > i like it and i always lock them, but is just a personal opinion and i
> > don't have data to say whether is good or bad
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Marco Martin
>

--
Oxygen coordinator  

My vote for locking
(one has to find the rmb menu to change anything but repositioning anyway)

> Any thoughts on this?
Why are the (rmb menu) settings for iconsize and icontext position shadowed
behind the lock? (esp. as the "configure toolbars.." isn't)

Thomas

On Martes 10 Noviembre 2009 21:42:29 Tomaz Canabrava escribió:
> +1. ( after deleting all toolbars in kopete, I lock all toolbars too )
>
Isn't this a question that can be made to the final users (with the usability
people approval), at least the ones that read planet.kde.org, www.kde.org or
userbase.kde.org?

[Hugo Pereira Da Costa]

On 11/10/2009 01:57 PM, Thomas Lübking wrote:

> My vote for locking
> (one has to find the rmb menu to change anything but repositioning anyway)
>
>    
>> Any thoughts on this?
>>      
> Why are the (rmb menu) settings for iconsize and icontext position shadowed
> behind the lock? (esp. as the "configure toolbars.." isn't)
>
>    

+1 too.
I don't do that when writing my own Qt Apps.
However I think its a question of semantics :-), about what "lock"
really means. Lock might mean "position-only" (your suggestion) or
"position+appearance" ...


> Thomas
>    

[Aaron J. Seigo]

On November 10, 2009, Nuno Pinheiro wrote:
> text alongside icons looks 10 times better fits best wide
> windows saves vertical space

this is the default for "secondary" toolbars, but the change wasn't made for
"main" toolbars. i'll try it out and see how it goes...

--
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks

On Tuesday, 10 de November de 2009 21:16:19 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On November 10, 2009, Nuno Pinheiro wrote:
> > text alongside icons looks 10 times better fits best wide
> > windows saves vertical space
>
> this is the default for "secondary" toolbars, but the change wasn't made
>  for "main" toolbars. i'll try it out and see how it goes...
>
+ 10 x times thanks
--
Oxygen coordinator  

[Aaron J. Seigo]

On November 10, 2009, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
> often (if at all).
> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?

attached is a patch that implements this. key points of this patch:

* renames "Lock Toolbars" to "Lock Toolbar Positions"

* renames menu title from "Toolbar Menu" to "Toolbar Settings"

* renames menu entry "Toolbars" to "Toolbars Shown", clearer and more
consistent with the single entry name of "Show Toolbar"

* doesn't hide icon size or text alignment options when locked (which is an
unfortunate problem with locking toolbars currently)

* puts a divider line in the menu between "this toolbar" and "all toolbar"
options; may need to be even more obvious with a title, but i didn't think the
visual "weight" of another title justified the benefits

* puts the items that are hidden when Locked at the bottom of their respective
sections, making the menu change as little as possible when locked

* main toolbar text default is text-aside

normally i'd put this on review-board, but i figured in this case it was more
useful to keep in the context of the thread.

--
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks

[toolbar_locking.diff]

---

Index: xmlgui/ktoolbarhandler.cpp
===================================================================
--- xmlgui/ktoolbarhandler.cpp (revision 1042775)
+++ xmlgui/ktoolbarhandler.cpp (working copy)
@@ -94,7 +94,7 @@
           return m_toolBarActions;
         }
 
-        KActionMenu *menuAction = new KActionMenu(i18n( "Toolbars" ), m_actionCollection);
+        KActionMenu *menuAction = new KActionMenu(i18n( "Toolbars Shown" ), m_actionCollection);
         m_actionCollection->addAction("toolbars_submenu_action", menuAction);
 
         foreach ( QAction* action, m_toolBarActions )
Index: widgets/kmainwindow.cpp
===================================================================
--- widgets/kmainwindow.cpp (revision 1042775)
+++ widgets/kmainwindow.cpp (working copy)
@@ -778,7 +778,7 @@
     }
 
     if ( !autoSaveSettings() || cg.name() == autoSaveGroup() ) { // TODO should be cg == d->autoSaveGroup, to compare both kconfig and group name
-        QString entry = cg.readEntry ("ToolBarsMovable", "Enabled");
+        QString entry = cg.readEntry ("ToolBarsMovable", "Disabled");
         if ( entry == "Disabled" )
             KToolBar::setToolBarsLocked(true);
         else
Index: widgets/ktoolbar.cpp
===================================================================
--- widgets/ktoolbar.cpp (revision 1042775)
+++ widgets/ktoolbar.cpp (working copy)
@@ -201,7 +201,7 @@
 };
 
 bool KToolBar::Private::s_editable = false;
-bool KToolBar::Private::s_locked = false;
+bool KToolBar::Private::s_locked = true;
 
 void KToolBar::Private::init(bool readConfig, bool _isMainToolBar)
 {
@@ -265,10 +265,9 @@
 {
   if (!context) {
     context = new KMenu(q);
-    context->addTitle(i18n("Toolbar Menu"));
+    context->addTitle(i18n("Toolbar Settings"));
 
     contextOrient = new KMenu(i18n("Orientation"), context);
-    context->addMenu(contextOrient);
 
     contextTop = contextOrient->addAction(i18nc("toolbar position string", "Top"), q, SLOT(slotContextTop()));
     contextTop->setChecked(true);
@@ -283,7 +282,6 @@
     }
 
     contextMode = new KMenu(i18n("Text Position"), context);
-    context->addMenu(contextMode);
 
     contextIcons = contextMode->addAction(i18n("Icons Only"), q, SLOT(slotContextIcons()));
     contextText = contextMode->addAction(i18n("Text Only"), q, SLOT(slotContextText()));
@@ -297,7 +295,6 @@
     }
 
     contextSize = new KMenu(i18n("Icon Size"), context);
-    context->addMenu(contextSize);
 
     contextIconSizes.insert(contextSize->addAction(i18nc("@item:inmenu Icon size", "Default"), q, SLOT(slotContextIconSize())),
                             iconSizeSettings.defaultValue());
@@ -362,18 +359,21 @@
       unlockedMovable = false;
 
     delete contextLockAction;
-    contextLockAction = new KToggleAction(KIcon("system-lock-screen"), (q->toolBarsLocked())?i18n("Unlock Toolbars"):i18n("Lock Toolbars"), q);
-    context->addAction(contextLockAction);
+    contextLockAction = new KToggleAction(KIcon("system-lock-screen"),
+            (q->toolBarsLocked())?i18n("Unlock Toolbar Positions"):i18n("Lock Toolbar Positions"), q);
     contextLockAction->setChecked(q->toolBarsLocked());
     connect(contextLockAction, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)), q, SLOT(slotLockToolBars(bool)));
 
+    // Now add the actions to the menu
+    context->addMenu(contextMode);
+    context->addMenu(contextSize);
+    context->addMenu(contextOrient);
+    context->addSeparator();
+
     connect(context, SIGNAL(aboutToShow()), q, SLOT(slotContextAboutToShow()));
   }
 
   contextOrient->menuAction()->setVisible(!q->toolBarsLocked());
-  contextMode->menuAction()->setVisible(!q->toolBarsLocked());
-  contextSize->menuAction()->setVisible(!q->toolBarsLocked());
-
   // Unplugging a submenu from abouttohide leads to the popupmenu floating around
   // So better simply call that code from after exec() returns (DF)
   //connect(context, SIGNAL(aboutToHide()), this, SLOT(slotContextAboutToHide()));
@@ -472,7 +472,7 @@
     if (isMainToolBar) {
         toolButtonStyleSettings[Level_KDEDefault] = q->toolButtonStyleSetting();
     } else {
-        const QString fallBack = "TextBesideIcon";
+        const QString fallBack = toolButtonStyleToString(Qt::ToolButtonTextBesideIcon);
         /**
           TODO: if we get complaints about text beside icons on small screens,
                 try the following code out on such systems - aseigo.
@@ -500,7 +500,7 @@
     //kDebug() << q->objectName() << "iconSizeSettings:" << iconSizeSettings.toString() << "->" << iconSizeSettings.currentValue();
     const int currentIconSize = iconSizeSettings.currentValue();
     q->setIconSize(QSize(currentIconSize, currentIconSize));
-    //kDebug() << q->objectName() << "toolButtonStyleSettings:" << toolButtonStyleSettings.toString() << "->" << toolButtonStyleSettings.currentValue();
+    kDebug() << q->objectName() << "toolButtonStyleSettings:" << toolButtonStyleSettings.toString() << "->" << toolButtonStyleSettings.currentValue();
     q->setToolButtonStyle(static_cast<Qt::ToolButtonStyle>(toolButtonStyleSettings.currentValue()));
 
     // And remember to save the new look later
@@ -518,27 +518,34 @@
    * So we currently plug/unplug the last two actions of the menu.
    * Another way would be to keep around the actions and plug them all into a (new each time) popupmenu.
    */
+
   KXmlGuiWindow *kmw = qobject_cast<KXmlGuiWindow *>(q->mainWindow());
-  if (kmw) {
-    kmw->setupToolbarMenuActions();
-    // Only allow hiding a toolbar if the action is also plugged somewhere else (e.g. menubar)
-    QAction *tbAction = kmw->toolBarMenuAction();
-    if (!q->toolBarsLocked() && tbAction && tbAction->associatedWidgets().count() > 0)
-      contextMenu()->addAction(tbAction);
-  }
 
   // try to find "configure toolbars" action
   QAction *configureAction = 0;
   const char* actionName = KStandardAction::name(KStandardAction::ConfigureToolbars);
-  if (xmlguiClient)
+  if (xmlguiClient) {
     configureAction = xmlguiClient->actionCollection()->action(actionName);
+  }
 
-  if (!configureAction && kmw)
+  if (!configureAction && kmw) {
     configureAction = kmw->actionCollection()->action(actionName);
+  }
 
-  if (configureAction)
+  if (configureAction) {
     context->addAction(configureAction);
+  }
 
+  context->addAction(contextLockAction);
+
+  if (kmw) {
+    kmw->setupToolbarMenuActions();
+    // Only allow hiding a toolbar if the action is also plugged somewhere else (e.g. menubar)
+    QAction *tbAction = kmw->toolBarMenuAction();
+    if (!q->toolBarsLocked() && tbAction && tbAction->associatedWidgets().count() > 0)
+      context->addAction(tbAction);
+  }
+
   KEditToolBar::setGlobalDefaultToolBar(q->QObject::objectName().toLatin1().constData());
 
   // Check the actions that should be checked
@@ -589,21 +596,28 @@
   // We have to unplug whatever slotContextAboutToShow plugged into the menu.
   // Unplug the toolbar menu action
   KXmlGuiWindow *kmw = qobject_cast<KXmlGuiWindow *>(q->mainWindow());
-  if (kmw && kmw->toolBarMenuAction())
-    if (kmw->toolBarMenuAction()->associatedWidgets().count() > 1)
-      contextMenu()->removeAction(kmw->toolBarMenuAction());
+  if (kmw && kmw->toolBarMenuAction()) {
+    if (kmw->toolBarMenuAction()->associatedWidgets().count() > 1) {
+      context->removeAction(kmw->toolBarMenuAction());
+    }
+  }
 
   // Unplug the configure toolbars action too, since it's afterwards anyway
   QAction *configureAction = 0;
   const char* actionName = KStandardAction::name(KStandardAction::ConfigureToolbars);
-  if (xmlguiClient)
+  if (xmlguiClient) {
     configureAction = xmlguiClient->actionCollection()->action(actionName);
+  }
 
-  if (!configureAction && kmw)
+  if (!configureAction && kmw) {
     configureAction = kmw->actionCollection()->action(actionName);
+  }
 
-  if (configureAction)
+  if (configureAction) {
     context->removeAction(configureAction);
+  }
+
+  context->removeAction(contextLockAction);
 }
 
 void KToolBar::Private::slotContextLeft()
@@ -748,33 +762,34 @@
         cg.writeEntry("ToolButtonStyle", d->toolButtonStyleToString(currentToolButtonStyle));
         d->toolButtonStyleSettings[Level_UserSettings] = currentToolButtonStyle;
     }
-
 }
 
 void KToolBar::setXMLGUIClient(KXMLGUIClient *client)
 {
-  d->xmlguiClient = client;
+    d->xmlguiClient = client;
 }
 
 void KToolBar::contextMenuEvent(QContextMenuEvent* event)
 {
-  if (mainWindow() && d->enableContext) {
-    QPointer<KToolBar> guard(this);
-    d->contextMenu()->exec(event->globalPos());
+    if (mainWindow() && d->enableContext) {
+        QPointer<KToolBar> guard(this);
+        d->contextMenu()->exec(event->globalPos());
 
-    // "Configure Toolbars" recreates toolbars, so we might not exist anymore.
-    if (guard)
-      d->slotContextAboutToHide();
-    return;
-  }
+        // "Configure Toolbars" recreates toolbars, so we might not exist anymore.
+        if (guard) {
+            d->slotContextAboutToHide();
+        }
+        return;
+    }
 
-  QToolBar::contextMenuEvent(event);
+    QToolBar::contextMenuEvent(event);
 }
 
 Qt::ToolButtonStyle KToolBar::toolButtonStyleSetting()
 {
-  KConfigGroup group(KGlobal::config(), "Toolbar style");
-  return KToolBar::Private::toolButtonStyleFromString(group.readEntry("ToolButtonStyle", "TextUnderIcon"));
+    KConfigGroup group(KGlobal::config(), "Toolbar style");
+    const QString fallback = Private::toolButtonStyleToString(Qt::ToolButtonTextBesideIcon);
+    return KToolBar::Private::toolButtonStyleFromString(group.readEntry("ToolButtonStyle", fallback));
 }
 
 void KToolBar::loadState(const QDomElement &element)
@@ -1288,7 +1303,7 @@
       foreach (KToolBar* toolbar, mw->findChildren<KToolBar*>()) {
         toolbar->d->setLocked(locked);
         if (toolbar->d->contextLockAction)
-            toolbar->d->contextLockAction->setText(locked ? i18n("Unlock Toolbars") : i18n("Lock Toolbars"));
+            toolbar->d->contextLockAction->setText(locked ? i18n("Unlock Toolbar Positions") : i18n("Lock Toolbar Positions"));
       }
 
   }

---

[Celeste Lyn Paul]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Aaron J. Seigo <aseigo@...> wrote:
> On November 10, 2009, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> just recently I discussed with some people about the default setting for
>> locked toolbars. Most people I spoke to, don't rearrange their toolbars
>> often (if at all).
>> So would it not make sense to have all toolbars locked by default?
>
> attached is a patch that implements this. key points of this patch:

*sends cookies via airmail*

>
> * renames "Lock Toolbars" to "Lock Toolbar Positions"
>
> * renames menu title from "Toolbar Menu" to "Toolbar Settings"
>
> * renames menu entry "Toolbars" to "Toolbars Shown", clearer and more
> consistent with the single entry name of "Show Toolbar"
>
> * doesn't hide icon size or text alignment options when locked (which is an
> unfortunate problem with locking toolbars currently)
>
> * puts a divider line in the menu between "this toolbar" and "all toolbar"
> options; may need to be even more obvious with a title, but i didn't think the
> visual "weight" of another title justified the benefits
>
> * puts the items that are hidden when Locked at the bottom of their respective
> sections, making the menu change as little as possible when locked
>
> * main toolbar text default is text-aside
>
> normally i'd put this on review-board, but i figured in this case it was more
> useful to keep in the context of the thread.
>
> --
> Aaron J. Seigo
> humru othro a kohnu se
> GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
>
> KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks
>

--
Celeste Lyn Paul
KDE Usability Project
KDE e.V. Board of Directors
www.kde.org

On Tuesday 10 November 2009 23:28:15 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> attached is a patch that implements this. key points of this patch:

Ship it!

And rename "Tool Bar" -> "Toolbar" in systemsettings :)

[Shaun Reich]

Great, I like it.

While we are on this topic, I have a few other things that I'd like to
have addressed..

I think, however, that it needs to be changed from a checkbox action,
to a regular action. I don't think it makes much sense in it's current
state:

"[X] Unlock Toolbar Positions"

and

"[  ] Lock Toolbar Positions"

Note that this wasn't changed with the current discussion result, as
it's always been a checkbox action, but I think that it seems kind of
redundant to show the status also, as the action is already saying
(implicitly) what the status is. I feel it should just be made a
regular action.


Another nitpick that I noticed, (this is the only one in the patch),
it is pertaining to "Toolbars Shown => {list}".

Is there someone other than me that thinks it should be renamed to
"Visible Toolbars => {list}"?

It seems to me like the former seems like it could be an action or
not, whereas with the latter, it is clear that it's only a drop-down
menu for showing the toolbars that can be seen.


Last issue, but this is more like hijacking, it does not affect me
directly, but it's always bugged me, to think that users could be
having this happen. Right click on the toolbar area, then mouse over
"Icon Size", select "Default".

Do you see how large the icons become? You will notice that selecting
the "Huge" option yields no change (is equivalent in size), thus the
default is the same, and is 48x48 pixels.

Does that seem a little large of a default to anyone else? Seems a bit
big to me, if it takes up 1/6 of the screen. Or is this truly a sane
default, and people like that? I feel that "Large (32x32 px)" is a
better default. But perhaps you guys have some good insight on this.


--
KDE Developer,
Shaun Reich

[Arno Rehn-4]

On Wednesday 11 November 2009 19:17:54 Shaun Reich wrote:

> Great, I like it.
>
> While we are on this topic, I have a few other things that I'd like to
> have addressed..
>
> I think, however, that it needs to be changed from a checkbox action,
> to a regular action. I don't think it makes much sense in it's current
> state:
>
> "[X] Unlock Toolbar Positions"
>
> and
>
> "[  ] Lock Toolbar Positions"
>
> Note that this wasn't changed with the current discussion result, as
> it's always been a checkbox action, but I think that it seems kind of
> redundant to show the status also, as the action is already saying
> (implicitly) what the status is. I feel it should just be made a
> regular action.

This is not only redundant, but the meaning is actually the same in both
cases.
"[X] Unlock Toolbar Positions" - unlocking is enabled
"[ ] Lock Toolbar Positions" - locking is disabled
So both versions actually indicate unlocked toolbars.

> Last issue, but this is more like hijacking, it does not affect me
> directly, but it's always bugged me, to think that users could be
> having this happen. Right click on the toolbar area, then mouse over
> "Icon Size", select "Default".
>
> Do you see how large the icons become? You will notice that selecting
> the "Huge" option yields no change (is equivalent in size), thus the
> default is the same, and is 48x48 pixels.
>
> Does that seem a little large of a default to anyone else? Seems a bit
> big to me, if it takes up 1/6 of the screen. Or is this truly a sane
> default, and people like that? I feel that "Large (32x32 px)" is a
> better default. But perhaps you guys have some good insight on this.

"Default" is the same as 22x22 px for me. You can change that in system
settings, iirc. Maybe you or your distribution changed what "Default" refers
to? (Or maybe I changed what it for myself and can't remember anymore ;) )

--
Arno Rehn
arno@...

On Wednesday, 11 de November de 2009 21:30:04 Arno Rehn wrote:

> On Wednesday 11 November 2009 19:17:54 Shaun Reich wrote:
> > Great, I like it.
> >
> > While we are on this topic, I have a few other things that I'd like to
> > have addressed..
> >
> > I think, however, that it needs to be changed from a checkbox action,
> > to a regular action. I don't think it makes much sense in it's current
> > state:
> >
> > "[X] Unlock Toolbar Positions"
> >
> > and
> >
> > "[  ] Lock Toolbar Positions"
> >
> > Note that this wasn't changed with the current discussion result, as
> > it's always been a checkbox action, but I think that it seems kind of
> > redundant to show the status also, as the action is already saying
> > (implicitly) what the status is. I feel it should just be made a
> > regular action.
>
> This is not only redundant, but the meaning is actually the same in both
> cases.
> "[X] Unlock Toolbar Positions" - unlocking is enabled
> "[ ] Lock Toolbar Positions" - locking is disabled
> So both versions actually indicate unlocked toolbars.
>
> > Last issue, but this is more like hijacking, it does not affect me
> > directly, but it's always bugged me, to think that users could be
> > having this happen. Right click on the toolbar area, then mouse over
> > "Icon Size", select "Default".
> >
> > Do you see how large the icons become? You will notice that selecting
> > the "Huge" option yields no change (is equivalent in size), thus the
> > default is the same, and is 48x48 pixels.
> >
> > Does that seem a little large of a default to anyone else? Seems a bit
> > big to me, if it takes up 1/6 of the screen. Or is this truly a sane
> > default, and people like that? I feel that "Large (32x32 px)" is a
> > better default. But perhaps you guys have some good insight on this.
>
> "Default" is the same as 22x22 px for me. You can change that in system
> settings, iirc. Maybe you or your distribution changed what "Default"
>  refers to? (Or maybe I changed what it for myself and can't remember
>  anymore ;) )
>

defoult is I think 22x22 that apart from beeing a rely non standrd icon size
works really well for text alongside

48x48 in toolbars is better for text under and in case you really have few
icons mac 5 also looks better if they are centered and well spaced (mac way,
vary bad wen you start hading icons you need)
--
Oxygen coordinator  

On Wednesday 11 November 2009 19:17:54 Shaun Reich wrote:

> Great, I like it.
>
> While we are on this topic, I have a few other things that I'd like to
> have addressed..
>
> I think, however, that it needs to be changed from a checkbox action,
> to a regular action. I don't think it makes much sense in it's current
> state:
>
> "[X] Unlock Toolbar Positions"
>
> and
>
> "[  ] Lock Toolbar Positions"
>
> [snip]

I'd rather have a proper checkbox action.
[ ] Lock Toolbar Positions
[x] Lock Toolbar Positions