Logo Competition

[Lucy-16]

The first entries have now been added to the wiki. Take a look and see
what you think:
http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Logo_Competition#Entries

As always, modifications and comments are welcome.


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[Lucy-16]

2009/9/22 Lucy <lucybridges@...>:
> The first entries have now been added to the wiki. Take a look and see
> what you think:
> http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Logo_Competition#Entries
>
> As always, modifications and comments are welcome.

We now have four entries and the competition ends on Monday.

At least one of the entrants has said they are willing to make changes
based on our feedback. So let us hear your thoughts!


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[MJ Ray-2]

Lucy <lucybridges@...> wrote:
> > http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Logo_Competition#Entries
> We now have four entries and the competition ends on Monday.
>
> At least one of the entrants has said they are willing to make changes
> based on our feedback. So let us hear your thoughts!

I like the style and proportions of logo one (vertical bee) because
I think it'll print better and looks more obviously not a bee's head,
but the position of logo two (horizontal).

The bee theme seems a good idea to combine with the GNU, but then
I would say that, wouldn't I?

Hope that helps,
--
MJ Ray (slef)  LMS developer and webmaster at     | software
www.software.coop http://mjr.towers.org.uk        |  .... co
IMO only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html |  .... op


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[Lucy-16]

2009/10/2 MJ Ray <mjr@...>:

> Lucy <lucybridges@...> wrote:
>> > http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Logo_Competition#Entries
>> We now have four entries and the competition ends on Monday.
>>
>> At least one of the entrants has said they are willing to make changes
>> based on our feedback. So let us hear your thoughts!
>
> I like the style and proportions of logo one (vertical bee) because
> I think it'll print better and looks more obviously not a bee's head,
> but the position of logo two (horizontal).
>
> The bee theme seems a good idea to combine with the GNU, but then
> I would say that, wouldn't I?

Yep, the bee theme is something that Dave Page thought of some time
ago. The bee is a logo used by the city of Manchester as a reflection
of its 'working class' roots. It would be nice to incorporate it into
a logo I think.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll pass it on. Printing is obviously a
concern, but it also needs to be recognisable and 'friendly' for
newcomers (or 'gnubees').


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[Pete Morris-2]

This is a really difficult one, as clearly a lot of time and effort has gone into the GNU-bee design (I like that phrase!) However, I'm not at all convinced it really meets any of the objectives; I realise that that is not particularly constructive criticism, and I am not offering a solution, so please feel free to ignore my comments, but at least if I explain them then it might stimulate others to think of more constructive criticism I can't seem to find.

The core problem for me is that it is not recognisable ... as anything! For those who understand the detailed history of Manchester, they might possibly get the bee metaphore. For those who are already part of the FSF/Linux/GNU/OSS community, they will probably "get" the bizarre wildebeest head. For anyone else, it doesn't suggest "computers", "software", "Manchester", "freedom" or indeed anything, with the possible exception of "genetic mutation". This wouldn't be a problem if, like Tux, it wasn't really intended to be representative and was purely a mascott, but this is supposed to be a logo which is recognisable and identifiable.

To be honest, a large part of the problem is less so with the GNU-bee logo and more with the GNU logo itself. It's a ridiculously complex design, which scales poorly, makes no sense (why would a ox-like creature sit in a yogic position and float around? And why on earth does that then represent free software?), looks slightly satanic, and doesn't lend itself to integration with other derived works. Compare that to the major distributions (Red Hat, SUSE, Ubuntu, Debian etc.) which all make use of highly simplified stylised vector object-based logos. Personally speaking, I don't think the FSF logo itself is a lot better, but at least it roughly makes sense.

So I'm sorry for effectively rubbishing what is obviously someone's hard work, especially when not providing anything better myself. But I fear if no one points the problem out it won't be solved.

Pete

(runs and hides)



-----Original Message-----
From: fsuk-manchester-bounces+pete.morris=manchester.ac.uk@... [mailto:fsuk-manchester-bounces+pete.morris=manchester.ac.uk@...] On Behalf Of Lucy
Sent: 02 October 2009 10:55
To: MJ Ray
Cc: fsuk-manchester@...
Subject: [Fsuk-manchester] Re: Logo Competition

2009/10/2 MJ Ray <mjr@...>:

> Lucy <lucybridges@...> wrote:
>> > http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Logo_Competition#Entries
>> We now have four entries and the competition ends on Monday.
>>
>> At least one of the entrants has said they are willing to make
>> changes based on our feedback. So let us hear your thoughts!
>
> I like the style and proportions of logo one (vertical bee) because I
> think it'll print better and looks more obviously not a bee's head,
> but the position of logo two (horizontal).
>
> The bee theme seems a good idea to combine with the GNU, but then I
> would say that, wouldn't I?

Yep, the bee theme is something that Dave Page thought of some time ago. The bee is a logo used by the city of Manchester as a reflection of its 'working class' roots. It would be nice to incorporate it into a logo I think.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll pass it on. Printing is obviously a concern, but it also needs to be recognisable and 'friendly' for newcomers (or 'gnubees').


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[Lucy-16]

2009/10/2 Pete Morris <Pete.Morris@...>:
> This is a really difficult one, as clearly a lot of time and effort has gone into the GNU-bee design (I like that phrase!) However, I'm not at all convinced it really meets any of the objectives; I realise that that is not particularly constructive criticism, and I am not offering a solution, so please feel free to ignore my comments, but at least if I explain them then it might stimulate others to think of more constructive criticism I can't seem to find.

[snipped good points]

Thanks for the feedback. I will pass it on. A lot of what you've said
makes sense and has helped me understand what was missing from the bee
logo.

Perhaps just using a bee, without the GNU head would be better? It
misses out the association with free software but perhaps the group
name is sufficient?


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[Lucy-16]

2009/10/2 Lucy <lucybridges@...>:

> 2009/10/2 Pete Morris <Pete.Morris@...>:
>> This is a really difficult one, as clearly a lot of time and effort has gone into the GNU-bee design (I like that phrase!) However, I'm not at all convinced it really meets any of the objectives; I realise that that is not particularly constructive criticism, and I am not offering a solution, so please feel free to ignore my comments, but at least if I explain them then it might stimulate others to think of more constructive criticism I can't seem to find.
>
> [snipped good points]
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I will pass it on. A lot of what you've said
> makes sense and has helped me understand what was missing from the bee
> logo.
>
> Perhaps just using a bee, without the GNU head would be better? It
> misses out the association with free software but perhaps the group
> name is sufficient?
>

Just want to add that Pete has taken his criticisms and designed an
entry for the competition.

See for yourselves at http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Logo_Competition


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[Leslie I'Anson]

Nice work Pete and an excellent competition entry.

Also, I agree with most, if not all, of your criticisms of the bee logos.

Best,
Leslie

On 02/10/2009, Lucy <lucybridges@...> wrote:

> 2009/10/2 Lucy <lucybridges@...>:
>> 2009/10/2 Pete Morris <Pete.Morris@...>:
>>> This is a really difficult one, as clearly a lot of time and effort has
>>> gone into the GNU-bee design (I like that phrase!) However, I'm not at
>>> all convinced it really meets any of the objectives; I realise that that
>>> is not particularly constructive criticism, and I am not offering a
>>> solution, so please feel free to ignore my comments, but at least if I
>>> explain them then it might stimulate others to think of more constructive
>>> criticism I can't seem to find.
>>
>> [snipped good points]
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback. I will pass it on. A lot of what you've said
>> makes sense and has helped me understand what was missing from the bee
>> logo.
>>
>> Perhaps just using a bee, without the GNU head would be better? It
>> misses out the association with free software but perhaps the group
>> name is sufficient?
>>
>
> Just want to add that Pete has taken his criticisms and designed an
> entry for the competition.
>
> See for yourselves at http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Logo_Competition
>
>
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>

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[Tim Dobson-5]

Pete Morris wrote:
> So I'm sorry for effectively rubbishing what is obviously someone's hard work, especially when not providing anything better myself.

Put out a design! :)

Inkscape is really easy to get started with and if I can create two,
frankly, very unimaginative logos in less than 5 minutes, surely you and
loads of other people can take 10mins and create something awesome! :)

You don't know until you try! :)


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[Lucy-16]

2009/10/3 Tim Dobson <lists@...>:

> Pete Morris wrote:
>>
>> So I'm sorry for effectively rubbishing what is obviously someone's hard
>> work, especially when not providing anything better myself.
>
> Put out a design! :)
>
> Inkscape is really easy to get started with and if I can create two,
> frankly, very unimaginative logos in less than 5 minutes, surely you and
> loads of other people can take 10mins and create something awesome! :)
>
> You don't know until you try! :)

I suggest you check the entries on the wiki Tim!


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