tag:old.nabble.com,2006:forum-14332Nabble - Mac OS X2009-12-23T22:14:13Ztag:old.nabble.com,2006:post-26910917Re: NSA helps Apple, Sun and Red Hat harden their systems2009-12-23T22:14:13Z2009-12-23T22:14:13ZKevin Callahan-2I would like think Apple would go to court on the pressure for a
<br>backdoor, unlike many carriers who implemented an illegal splitter
<br>for all communications with all data (phone calls, email, Internet)
<br>being sent to the NSA. While Constitutionally illegal, apparently
<br>they've done no wrong and have been given a free pass by both Bush and
<br>Obama.
<br><br>Do stock holders have the right to Apple's discussions with the NSA?
<br><br>At the end of the day, INTEL could be saying, if you want our
<br>business, we need to know you meet our standards (however they are
<br>defined), which is maybe all that's going on.
<br><br>However, as a stock holder and as a Mac user, I'd still like to know
<br>the details from Apple rather than second guessing.
<br><br>Sent from my iPhone
<br><br>On Dec 23, 2009, at 8:53 PM, David Cake <<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26910917&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">dave@...</a>> wrote:
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> I have no idea if he is still employed there (it has been far far
<br>> too long since I made it to WWDC), but at least 10 years ago the
<br>> crypto expert in Apples Developer Tech Support team was one of the
<br>> most hard core crypto freedom activists I know (and I'm a board
<br>> member of Electronic Frontiers Australia - we've run crypto
<br>> campaigns). I remember him running around WWDC with a satirical FBI
<br>> style jacket that said 'Key Escrow Agent'. He also worked for PGP
<br>> for a while.
<br>> I'm sure if he is still around Apple, they'd think twice about
<br>> letting anything naughty in the kernel. He was also an ex Special
<br>> Forces guy (and looked it) whose business card said he was the 'DTS
<br>> Sniper'.
<br>> I certainly felt our crypto-protected data privacy was in pretty
<br>> safe hands at Apple after talking to him, anyway.
<br>> Cheers
<br>> David
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<br>far too long since I made it to WWDC), but at least 10 years ago the
<br>crypto expert in Apples Developer Tech Support team was one of the
<br>most hard core crypto freedom activists I know (and I'm a board
<br>member of Electronic Frontiers Australia - we've run crypto
<br>campaigns). I remember him running around WWDC with a satirical FBI
<br>style jacket that said 'Key Escrow Agent'. He also worked for PGP for
<br>a while.
<br> I'm sure if he is still around Apple, they'd think twice
<br>about letting anything naughty in the kernel. He was also an ex
<br>Special Forces guy (and looked it) whose business card said he was
<br>the 'DTS Sniper'.
<br> I certainly felt our crypto-protected data privacy was in
<br>pretty safe hands at Apple after talking to him, anyway.
<br> Cheers
<br> David
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<html><head><title>Re: NSA helps Apple, Sun and Red Hat harden their
systems</title></head><body>
<div>At 9:54 PM -0800 21/12/09, Scotty Logan wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Jared
Earle <<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26910694&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">jearle@...</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Macs R We <<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26910694&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">macsrwe@...</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>Unfortunately, such tools wouldn't tell you if a backdoor
EXISTED -- they would only tell you if a backdoor were IN USE at the
moment.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Whereas reading the Linux kernel source code would tell
you it existed.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Not if the compiler, linker, or assembler
were inserting the backdoor.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust" target="_top" rel="nofollow"><span></span>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Tru<span></span>sting_Trust</a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> Scotty</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><x-tab> </x-tab>That
attack, while real, is not sufficiently generalisable to realistically
apply to the Linux kernel. Ie we have more than one compiler, all
worked on by many people with source code, multiply sourced
disassembly and code analysis tools, and various independent means of
verification.</div>
<div><x-tab> </x-tab>It is a
real threat when one person (or one small cabal) is involved in the
entire toolchain. But that isn't the case with any major open source
OS.</div>
<div><x-tab> </x-tab>(And
yes, Mac OS X is effectively open source in this case, at the kernel
level, though certainly subject to less verification than Linux or one
of the BSDs. I still think the level of independent oversight is
sufficient).</div>
<div><x-tab>
</x-tab>Cheers</div>
<div><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab>David</div>
</body>
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<br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Eugene <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26909490&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">list-omnigroup@...</a></a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class="h5">1) Fixed your incorrect top-posting. don't top-post.</div></div></blockquote></div><br>-- <br> Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK<br> <a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26909490&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">jearle@...</a></a> :: <a href="http://jearle.eu" target="_top" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://jearle.eu" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://jearle.eu</a></a><br>
Hosting :: <a href="http://cat5.org" target="_top" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://cat5.org" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://cat5.org</a></a><br> Blog :: <a href="http://blog.23x.net" target="_top" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://blog.23x.net" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://blog.23x.net</a></a><br>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>MacOSX-talk mailing list</span><br><span><a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26909490&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">MacOSX-talk@...</a></span><br><span><a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>
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<br><br><br><br>On Dec 23, 2009, at 4:01 PM, Eugene wrote:
<br>>
<br>> 1) Fixed your incorrect top-posting. don't top-post.
<br><br><br>-----------------------------------------------
<br>There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.
<br><br>neil
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<br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Eugene <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26907749&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">list-omnigroup@...</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class="h5">1) Fixed your incorrect top-posting. don't top-post.</div></div></blockquote></div><br>-- <br> Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK<br> <a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26907749&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">jearle@...</a> :: <a href="http://jearle.eu" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://jearle.eu</a><br>
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<br>> 4) You won't even admit that you are incorrect about your assumption
<br>> that the NSA has no such database. You remind me of several talking
<br>> heads in the states that yell their rhetoric while ignoring the facts,
<br>> e.g. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Fox News.
<br><br><br>I think you mean Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Rahm
<br>Emmanuel, msnbc, CNN
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<div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>
<br>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 6:26 PM, LuKreme wrote:
<br>> >
<br>> > On 20-Dec-2009, at 16:05, Neil Laubenthal wrote:
<br>> >
<br>> >> This would require so many people . . .and so many dollars . . .
<br>> >> that the odds of keeping it a secret are pretty low.
<br>> >
<br>> > It's NOT secret.
<br>> >
<br>> > <<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database</a>>
<br>> >> The NSA call database is a database created by the United States
<br>> >> National Security Agency (NSA) that contains hundreds of billions
<br>> >> of records of telephone calls made by U.S. citizens from the four
<br>> >> largest telephone carriers in the United States: AT&T, SBC,
<br>> >> BellSouth (all three now being called AT&T since AT&T bought
<br>> >> BellSouth and SBC purchased AT&T but kept the AT&T name), and
<br>> >> Verizon.[1]
<br>> >>
<br>> >> The existence of this database and the NSA program that compiled it
<br>> >> was unknown to the general public until USA Today broke the story
<br>> >> on May 10, 2006.[1] It is estimated that the database contains over
<br>> >> 1.9 trillion call-detail records.[2] According to Bloomberg News,
<br>> >> the effort began approximately seven months before the September
<br>> >> 11, 2001 attacks.[3]
<br>> >
<br>> > and later
<br>> >
<br>> >> On May 22, 2006, it was revealed by investigative reporter Seymour
<br>> >> Hersh and Wired magazine that the program involved the NSA setting
<br>> >> up splitters to the routing cores of many telecoms companies and to
<br>> >> major Internet traffic hubs.
</div>[...]
<br>>
<br>> Well . . I guess if wikipedia says it is true then it must be true.
<br>[...]
<br><br>Neil,
<br><br>1) Fixed your incorrect top-posting. don't top-post.
<br><br>2) Anyone can attack Wikipedia, but at least the article has references
<br>to several public media sources, e.g. USA Today, Bloomberg News, Wired.
<br>You should try doing the research sometime --- with an open mind.
<br><br>3) You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.
<br><br>4) You won't even admit that you are incorrect about your assumption
<br>that the NSA has no such database. You remind me of several talking
<br>heads in the states that yell their rhetoric while ignoring the facts,
<br>e.g. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Fox News.
<br><br>5) Are you Xah Lee in disguise?
<br><br><br>--
<br>Eugene
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<div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>
<br>> From: Akash Nemani <<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26906986&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">akashnemani@...</a>>
<br>> Date: December 22, 2009 11:24:50 PM CST
<br>> To: <a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26906986&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">macosx-dev@...</a>
<br>> Subject: Accesing file pointer of a burn folder file
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> Hi All,
<br>>
<br>> I am trying to create a virtual folder in Mac. What I am hoping to do is
<br>> that every file/folder dragged or copied into the virtual folder creates a
<br>> symbolic link or a fake file/folder pointing to the original file/folder
<br>> copied. I noticed that Burn folders does almost the same thing. But the
<br>> problem I am facing is that when I try to access the files of the burn
<br>> folder I cant get the file they are pointing to. I tried using stat as well
<br>> as readlink but it doesn't seem to work for burn folders. Is there a way to
<br>> solve this?
<br>>
<br>> Or do you guys have any idea of a better way to implement what I am working
<br>> on?
<br>>
<br>> Regards,
<br>> Akash Nemani
<br>> Computer Engineering
<br>> School of Computing
<br>> National University of Singapore
</div><br>Hmm... that's an interesting situation.
<br>You may be running into the thing Apple managed to leverage which was also an old computer science no no... directory hardlinks!
<br>Time Machine uses directory hardlinks extensively.
<br>AFAIK the API for directory hardlinks is unpublished/private._______________________________________________
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<br><br>I am trying to create a virtual folder in Mac. What I am hoping to do is
<br>that every file/folder dragged or copied into the virtual folder creates a
<br>symbolic link or a fake file/folder pointing to the original file/folder
<br>copied. I noticed that Burn folders does almost the same thing. But the
<br>problem I am facing is that when I try to access the files of the burn
<br>folder I cant get the file they are pointing to. I tried using stat as well
<br>as readlink but it doesn't seem to work for burn folders. Is there a way to
<br>solve this?
<br><br>Or do you guys have any idea of a better way to implement what I am working
<br>on?
<br><br>Regards,
<br>Akash Nemani
<br>Computer Engineering
<br>School of Computing
<br>National University of Singapore
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<br><a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://old.nabble.com/OmniGroup---MacOSX-Dev-f14335.html" embed="fixTarget[14335]" target="_top" >OmniGroup - MacOSX-Dev</a></p>tag:old.nabble.com,2006:post-26892015RE: NSA helps Apple, Sun and Red Hat harden their systems2009-12-22T10:09:49Z2009-12-22T10:09:49ZScott G. Lewis<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>I guess the real paranoid would only use an open source compiler, on top of it. I think the following should cover roughly 99% of all Mac users however, they'll believe at least most of the following:</div><div><br></div><div>1) There's no backdoor.</div><div>2) Nobody is looking into me, even if there is.</div><div>3) There's nothing to see, even if they are.</div><div><br></div><div>Those that are so paranoid as to talk about reviewing source code, I think can be broken down even simpler:</div><div><br></div><div>1) I've never actually reviewed all of the code / lack the expertise to analyze the code.</div><div>2) I still use computers anyway.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not saying this covers everyone's belief, but what's left is kind of a real fringe element. </div>
<blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black; font-family:verdana;">
<div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust</a></div> </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I still say it'd get spotted. </div></div><br>
</div>
</blockquote></span></body></html>
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<div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">Not if the compiler, linker, or assembler were inserting the backdoor.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust</a></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I still say it'd get spotted. </div></div><br>-- <br> Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK<br> <a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26884773&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">jearle@...</a> :: <a href="http://jearle.eu" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://jearle.eu</a><br>
Hosting :: <a href="http://cat5.org" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://cat5.org</a><br> Blog :: <a href="http://blog.23x.net" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://blog.23x.net</a><br>
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<div class="im"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Macs R We <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26884319&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">macsrwe@...</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Unfortunately, such tools wouldn't tell you if a backdoor EXISTED -- they would only tell you if a backdoor were IN USE at the moment.</div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div>Whereas reading the Linux kernel source code would tell you it existed.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>Not if the compiler, linker, or assembler were inserting the backdoor.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust</a></div>
<div><br></div><div> Scotty </div></div>
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<br>(via OS X Server'w OpenDirectory) files from a share on another
<br>machine. Of course, I don't want to files to come from the OS X
<br>Server machine, I just want them to be "advertised" and setup for
<br>OpenDirectory users from there. Does that make sense?
<br><br>Thanks,
<br>Ashley.
<br><br>--
<br>Ashley Aitken
<br>Perth, Western Australia
<br>Skype/iChat: MrHatken (GMT + 8hrs!)
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<br><br>We have a machine that gets its login information from an OS X Server
<br>(Leopard 10.5.8) and the user's files are actually on the server as
<br>well.
<br><br>The machine says "Network accounts available" on the login screen but
<br>will not allow login - it indicates there is an error, can't login at
<br>this time.
<br><br>A local reboot fixes it every time. It seems though, after a period
<br>(day?) that network logins again do not work. Server has not been
<br>rebooted or anything.
<br><br>Any suggestions or ideas?
<br><br>Thanks,
<br>Ashley.
<br><br><br>--
<br>Ashley Aitken
<br>Perth, Western Australia
<br>Skype/iChat: MrHatken (GMT + 8hrs!)
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<br>after my installation of Adobe software, more specifically
<br>installation of Adobe Creative Suite 3 and 4.
<br><br>Today I arrived to my office and found my main Mac (it's an Alum 24"
<br>iMac) showing the exact same behavior that has occurred formerly in
<br>this and other computer at home: Dock and Finder start to behave
<br>erratically, Dock hangs, Finder hangs, apps bounce on Dock upon
<br>clicking but stall and hang after briefly work state, can't be forced
<br>to quit via Dock or the Force Quit Applications window (even with
<br>Terminal kill and killall it's hard to make them quit; kill through
<br>Activity Monitor is not possible... you guessed: I try to launch it
<br>and it fails), until finally neither Disk Utility nor DiskWarrior can
<br>do anything for the disk.
<br><br>Note that in 3 out of 4 cases Adobe software have been installed on
<br>disks other than the ones holding the Mac OS X Leopard, Mac OS X
<br>Leopard Server, or Snow Leopard. The remaining case was once at home
<br>Adobe was installed in the same disk as Mac OS X Leopard. Today's
<br>failure is Mac OS X Leopard Server installed in external disk, backing
<br>up to another external disk, Adobe apps installed in internal hard
<br>drive, which is the one dead by the time I write this obituary.
<br><br>I could not find one mention of this theory of mine on the web, and
<br>I'm mostly bothering the list with this just to have this mentioned at
<br>least in one forum, and probably in the hope of helping someone going
<br>crazy with disks failures after installing Adobe software.
<br><br>Once you erase a disk, install everything new (even System if that's
<br>the case, as it was once at home and once here), and reinstall Adobe
<br>apps, things go smooth. This have not occurred on new disks, only on
<br>running, full of stuff disks, but otherwise perfectly working before
<br>the installs.
<br><br>Wishing you great holidays,
<br>Cesar Alsina
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<div class="im">Unfortunately, such tools wouldn't tell you if a backdoor EXISTED -- they would only tell you if a backdoor were IN USE at the moment.</div></blockquote></div><div><br></div>Whereas reading the Linux kernel source code would tell you it existed.<br clear="all">
<br>-- <br> Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK<br> <a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26877418&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">jearle@...</a> :: <a href="http://jearle.eu" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://jearle.eu</a><br> Hosting :: <a href="http://cat5.org" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://cat5.org</a><br> Blog :: <a href="http://blog.23x.net" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://blog.23x.net</a><br>
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<br><br>> Does anyone on the list have software that watches incoming and
<br>> outgoing packets through their firewall in order to list and
<br>> identify where all that traffic is coming from? If there were a back
<br>> door, or spyware, rootkit, or another lovely instrument of
<br>> exploitation/espionage installed on any of your gear, would you be
<br>> able to catch it in action, therefore discover something having been
<br>> installed, see what kind of data is being shipped out, and end the
<br>> problem?
<br><br>Unfortunately, such tools wouldn't tell you if a backdoor EXISTED --
<br>they would only tell you if a backdoor were IN USE at the moment.
<br><br>--
<br> Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support
<br> in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
<br> <a href="http://macsrwe.com" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://macsrwe.com</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
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<br><br>> Can't find a way to search for bugs submitted by others, but I've submitted this as # 7488615.
<br><br>There isn't a way to look at bugs submitted by other people. Only
<br>Apple have access to the information once it's in the database.
<br><br>Openradar <<a href="http://openradar.appspot.com" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://openradar.appspot.com</a>> is an attempt to make a open
<br>version of the data, but it relies on people submitting their bug to
<br>that as well. Always worth I search if you have a problem, and I try
<br>to log all my bugs there too.
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<br>>>
<br>>
<br>> Have you registered that as a bug ? Or is it already there ?
<br><br>Can't find a way to search for bugs submitted by others, but I've submitted this as # 7488615.
<br><br>./s
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<br><br>> In SL's Address Book, the merge cards function doesn't seem to preserve non-identical fields as advertised:
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=AddressBook/5.0/en/9157.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=AddressBook/5.0/en/9157.html</a><br>>
<br>> Create two cards for Joe Blow, with slightly different work phones. The new merged card should have two different work phone fields, but it ends up with just one - one of them gets discarded without warning.
<br>>
<br>> I just learned this the hard way. Ugh.
<br><br>Have you registered that as a bug ? Or is it already there ?
<br><br><br>Jean-Christophe Helary
<br>---------------------------------
<br>fun: mac4translators.blogspot.com
<br>work: www.doublet.jp (ja/en > fr)
<br>tweets: @brandelune
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<br><br><a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=AddressBook/5.0/en/9157.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=AddressBook/5.0/en/9157.html</a><br><br>Create two cards for Joe Blow, with slightly different work phones. The new merged card should have two different work phone fields, but it ends up with just one - one of them gets discarded without warning.
<br><br>I just learned this the hard way. Ugh.
<br><br>./s
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<br><br>> all this is documented on the iTunes LP site. how to create LPs and
<br>> iTunes Plus movies.
<br><br>There's an iTunes LP site?
<br><br>I wouldn't mind creating my own LPs if some if my music.
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<br><<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26870107&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">bentley@...</a>> wrote:
<br>> Does anyone on the list have software that watches incoming and outgoing
<br>> packets through their firewall in order to list and identify where all that
<br>> traffic is coming from? If there were a back door, or spyware, rootkit, or
<br>> another lovely instrument of exploitation/espionage installed on any of your
<br>> gear, would you be able to catch it in action, therefore discover something
<br>> having been installed, see what kind of data is being shipped out, and end
<br>> the problem?
<br><br>You could pretty easily configure a firewall to log every incoming and
<br>outgoing connection. There are then two problems that I can think of.
<br>1) Correlating the logs with what you expected to see (web traffic,
<br>etc.). What shouldn't be there?
<br>2) Trusting the data. If you're checking for a back door, you can't
<br>trust that the system has been configured to communicate without
<br>logging those connections or associated data.
<br><br>You'd rather need to log everything at an external router.
<br>Correlation gets harder at this level, and you still can't be sure the
<br>router isn't backdoored as well.
<br><br>You need a logging machine that is running a trusted and secure OS.
<br><br>By the time you've reached this stage, you should have either realized
<br>that the effort needed to execute such a backdoor would be monumental
<br>and unrealistic, or you've gone off the paranoia deep end and you're
<br>suspecting your eyeballs of being backdoored.
<br><br>It's far more effective to trust your virgin OS, administer it
<br>effectively, and casually watch for "odd behavior". Anything else is,
<br>in the words of Bruce Schneier, "protecting against movie plot
<br>threats" [1]. I'll occasionally check my appfirewall.log and router
<br>for forwarded ports, connected devices, etc., but spending too much
<br>time on this sort of thing defeats the benefit of computing.
<br><br>[1] Anyone following this thread or interested in general security
<br>matters should probably be following his blog [2].
<br>[2] <a href="http://www.schneier.com/blog/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.schneier.com/blog/</a><br><br>--
<br>arno s hautala /-\ <a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26870107&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">arno@...</a>
<br><br>pgp eabb6fe6 d47c500f b2458f5d a7cc7abb f81c4e00
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<br>outgoing packets through their firewall in order to list and identify
<br>where all that traffic is coming from? If there were a back door, or
<br>spyware, rootkit, or another lovely instrument of
<br>exploitation/espionage installed on any of your gear, would you be
<br>able to catch it in action, therefore discover something having been
<br>installed, see what kind of data is being shipped out, and end the
<br>problem?
<br><br>I haven't cared enough to collect and/or watch for that kind of
<br>traffic. I'd be interested to know if there are easily installed
<br>tools.
<br><br>-Mike
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<br><br>how to create LPs and iTunes Plus movies.
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<br>>
<br>> Besides . . .I think that NSA is legally prohibited from monitoring
<br>> US only communications . . .
<br><br>Sure, just as the federal government is legally prohibited from
<br>torturing anybody. So instead, we send them overseas to a "friendly"
<br>country with fewer compunctions, to have them tortured for us. Same
<br>(or better) results, cleaner hands.
<br><br>Similarly, they have a friendly European intelligence agency (read:
<br>England) monitor US-only communications, and they monitor British
<br>communications for them (which the English are likewise forbidden from
<br>monitoring on their own). Then they provide each other information.
<br>Result: everybody happy (except the citizens).
<br><br><a href="http://duncan.gn.apc.org/echelon-dc.htm" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://duncan.gn.apc.org/echelon-dc.htm</a><br><br>Of course, lately they don't even bother to keep up this pretense.
<br><br><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?pagewanted=print" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?pagewanted=print</a><br><br>>> What do they know? They know that number xxxxx called number yyyy
<br>>> for 26 seconds and assuming that the numbers are mobile they know
<br>>> more or less where the phones were when the all were made.
<br>>
<br>> And this provides exactly what useful intelligence info?
<br><br>> Even if this database exists . . .the magnitude of the data makes
<br>> doing any meaningful sorting/analysis pretty much impossible . .
<br><br>Ah, and of course the NSA often spends millions and billions of
<br>dollars and man-hours assembling and continuing to maintain a
<br>capability that provides no useful intelligence info. So we can all
<br>feel safe.
<br><br>--
<br> Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support
<br> in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
<br> <a href="http://macsrwe.com" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://macsrwe.com</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
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<br>>
<br>> And this provides exactly what useful intelligence info? As somebody else noted . .anonymous pre pay cell phones are easy to come by and by your own claim you said that all they are doing is recording endpoints and not the actual calls. Who cares where phone xxxx was at 4:13AM on Jun 7, 2007?
<br><br>The aggregated call information would actually reveal quite a bit of
<br>useful intelligence. Take the Facebook example from not too long ago
<br>where friend data was used to determine user sexuality, or the recent
<br>NetFlix lawsuit over similar issues. Clearly this may not be "useful
<br>intelligence", but it's revealing of the sort of data that can be
<br>extracted from "non-sensitive" information. There have been other
<br>studies and reports about using to and from data to determine social
<br>groups, group status, and movements. Even anonymous phones can be
<br>used to identify groups of anonymous users that contact each other,
<br>where these groups are, and changes to their usage patterns. It
<br>largely doesn't matter WHO your target is, but WHAT they're up to.
<br><br>Plus, I'd bet that tracking even just a single anonymous phone number
<br>over a relatively short period of time (1 week? 2 weeks?) would be
<br>able to uniquely identify an individual, when correlated with another
<br>set of data (residence, employment, banking, etc.).
<br><br>> And let's not even talk about how long it would take to search 1.9 trillion phone calls . . .or how the bad guys can easily use encrypted email to anonymously obtained email accounts and guarantee themselves that nobody will know what they are talking about.
<br><br>Even one time pad encrypted messages can reveal information if
<br>measures haven't been taken to hide the source and destination,
<br>transmission and response time, etc.
<br><br>> Even if this database exists . . .the magnitude of the data makes doing any meaningful sorting/analysis pretty much impossible . . .and again . . without the CONTENT the endpoints provide nothing. You can't even use them to send the cops after the bad guy . . .because he was there last week and not now.
<br><br>Pinning your security on the complexity of analyzing a large set of
<br>data is no better than obscurity. And again, the statistical
<br>information contained in the endpoints provides quite a bit of
<br>relevant information.
<br><br><br>I don't think there's enough government transparency to determine if
<br>they're tracking "too much" without cause, but in general I don't like
<br>this sort of mass surveillance. For one thing, I doubt that the
<br>expenditure sees a corresponding return on investment. That said, the
<br>average person simply isn't interesting enough for any of this data to
<br>actually effect anyone. It's still not a good thing that the data is
<br>recorded in the first place, but it's largely pointless anyway.
<br><br>--
<br>arno s hautala /-\ <a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26869307&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">arno@...</a>
<br><br>pgp eabb6fe6 d47c500f b2458f5d a7cc7abb f81c4e00
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<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>
<br>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Christiaan Hofman wrote:
<br>>
<br>>> I need to use delegate methods for animations run through NSAnimatablePropertyContainer (-animator proxy) to know when the animation has finished. The main problem is CAAnimation's buggy behavior of retaining its delegate (I am aware it's as designed, but that only means it's a design bug).
<br>>>
<br>>> So my basic question is: how am I supposed to use (set/unset) the delegate of an animation that's run behind the scene by the animator proxy?
<br>>>
<br>>> Some observations.
<br>>>
<br>>> To be able to set the delegate, I need to provide my own animation, probably through -setAnimations:, or otherwise by overriding -animationForKey:, because the default animation doesn't allow the delegate to be set for some reason (which I don't understand).
<br>>>
<br>>> However, I can't just set the delegate for this custom animation, because that results in a retain cycle, and therefore a leak (that's why the behavior noted above is buggy).
<br>>
<br>> Could you set the delegate to an proxy object that the animation retains, but which doesn't retain your real delegate? You could then use forwardingTargetForSelector: to forward messages.
<br>>
</div><br>I guess that would be possible. But it seems rather complicate, it needs a whole custom class for each delegate I would have. That seems to be completely contrary to the whole delegate idea.
<br><br>> I don't have a suggestion for any of your other questions; I've avoided using -animator as much as possible because of other bugs we've previously discussed.
<br>>
<br><br><br>I'm also very disappointed by CA, it has some serious bugs and restrictions. In most of the cases I've needed animations NSAnimation still does a much better job.
<br><br>thanks
<br>Christiaan
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<br><br>> I need to use delegate methods for animations run through NSAnimatablePropertyContainer (-animator proxy) to know when the animation has finished. The main problem is CAAnimation's buggy behavior of retaining its delegate (I am aware it's as designed, but that only means it's a design bug).
<br>>
<br>> So my basic question is: how am I supposed to use (set/unset) the delegate of an animation that's run behind the scene by the animator proxy?
<br>>
<br>> Some observations.
<br>>
<br>> To be able to set the delegate, I need to provide my own animation, probably through -setAnimations:, or otherwise by overriding -animationForKey:, because the default animation doesn't allow the delegate to be set for some reason (which I don't understand).
<br>>
<br>> However, I can't just set the delegate for this custom animation, because that results in a retain cycle, and therefore a leak (that's why the behavior noted above is buggy).
<br><br>Could you set the delegate to an proxy object that the animation retains, but which doesn't retain your real delegate? You could then use forwardingTargetForSelector: to forward messages.
<br><br>I don't have a suggestion for any of your other questions; I've avoided using -animator as much as possible because of other bugs we've previously discussed.
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<br><br>And this provides exactly what useful intelligence info? As somebody else noted . .anonymous pre pay cell phones are easy to come by and by your own claim you said that all they are doing is recording endpoints and not the actual calls. Who cares where phone xxxx was at 4:13AM on Jun 7, 2007?
<br><br>And let's not even talk about how long it would take to search 1.9 trillion phone calls . . .or how the bad guys can easily use encrypted email to anonymously obtained email accounts and guarantee themselves that nobody will know what they are talking about.
<br><br>Even if this database exists . . .the magnitude of the data makes doing any meaningful sorting/analysis pretty much impossible . . .and again . . without the CONTENT the endpoints provide nothing. You can't even use them to send the cops after the bad guy . . .because he was there last week and not now.
<br><br><br><br>On Dec 20, 2009, at 6:26 PM, LuKreme wrote:
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>
<br>> On 20-Dec-2009, at 16:05, Neil Laubenthal wrote:
<br>>
<br>>> This would require so many people . . .and so many dollars . . .that the odds of keeping it a secret are pretty low.
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> It's NOT secret.
<br>>
<br>> <<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database</a>>
<br>>> The NSA call database is a database created by the United States National Security Agency (NSA) that contains hundreds of billions of records of telephone calls made by U.S. citizens from the four largest telephone carriers in the United States: AT&T, SBC, BellSouth (all three now being called AT&T since AT&T bought BellSouth and SBC purchased AT&T but kept the AT&T name), and Verizon.[1]
<br>>>
<br>>> The existence of this database and the NSA program that compiled it was unknown to the general public until USA Today broke the story on May 10, 2006.[1] It is estimated that the database contains over 1.9 trillion call-detail records.[2] According to Bloomberg News, the effort began approximately seven months before the September 11, 2001 attacks.[3]
<br>>
<br>> and later
<br>>
<br>>> On May 22, 2006, it was revealed by investigative reporter Seymour Hersh and Wired magazine that the program involved the NSA setting up splitters to the routing cores of many telecoms companies and to major Internet traffic hubs. These provided a direct connection via an alleged "black room" known as Room 641A. This room allows most U.S. telecoms communications and Internet traffic to be redirected to the NSA. The NSA used them to eavesdrop and order police investigations of tens of thousands of ordinary Americans without judicial warrants.
<br>>
<br>> and finally
<br>>
<br>>> The legality of blanket wiretapping has never been sustained in court, but on July 10, 2008 the US Congress capitulated to the administration in granting blanket immunity to the administration and telecom industry for potentially illegal domestic surveillance.
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> --
<br>> I WILL NOT BELCH THE NATIONAL ANTHEM
<br>> Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F15
<br>>
<br>> _______________________________________________
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<br>There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.
<br><br>neil
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<br><br>> This would require so many people . . .and so many dollars . . .that the odds of keeping it a secret are pretty low.
<br><br><br>It's NOT secret.
<br><br><<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database</a>>
<br>> The NSA call database is a database created by the United States National Security Agency (NSA) that contains hundreds of billions of records of telephone calls made by U.S. citizens from the four largest telephone carriers in the United States: AT&T, SBC, BellSouth (all three now being called AT&T since AT&T bought BellSouth and SBC purchased AT&T but kept the AT&T name), and Verizon.[1]
<br>>
<br>> The existence of this database and the NSA program that compiled it was unknown to the general public until USA Today broke the story on May 10, 2006.[1] It is estimated that the database contains over 1.9 trillion call-detail records.[2] According to Bloomberg News, the effort began approximately seven months before the September 11, 2001 attacks.[3]
<br><br>and later
<br><br>> On May 22, 2006, it was revealed by investigative reporter Seymour Hersh and Wired magazine that the program involved the NSA setting up splitters to the routing cores of many telecoms companies and to major Internet traffic hubs. These provided a direct connection via an alleged "black room" known as Room 641A. This room allows most U.S. telecoms communications and Internet traffic to be redirected to the NSA. The NSA used them to eavesdrop and order police investigations of tens of thousands of ordinary Americans without judicial warrants.
<br><br>and finally
<br><br>> The legality of blanket wiretapping has never been sustained in court, but on July 10, 2008 the US Congress capitulated to the administration in granting blanket immunity to the administration and telecom industry for potentially illegal domestic surveillance.
<br><br><br><br><br>--
<br>I WILL NOT BELCH THE NATIONAL ANTHEM
<br> Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F15
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<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 3:03 PM, LuKreme <<a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26868265&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">kremels@...</a>> wrote:
<br>>
<br>>> iTunes has a free iTunes LP (iTunes Holiday Sampler).
<br>>>
<br>>> The iTunes LP format is… odd. It shows up as a single 'track' in the iTunes
<br>>> library, and as far as i can tell it can be synced only as a single item.
<br>>>
<br>>> In fact, I cannot see anyway to see the list of track in the LP other than
<br>>> going through the LP UI.
<br>>>
<br>>
<br>> (Let's try again. Silly 200k message limit!)
<br>>
<br>> Eh? See attached!
</div><br>Yeah, I don't know what was going on with my iTunes. It was schytzo. Relaunched and all appears correctly now.
<br><br>--
<br>Never age. Never die. Live for ever in that one last white-hot moment, when the crowd screamed. When every note was a heartbeat. Burn across the sky.
<br>You will never grow old. They will never say you died. --Soul Music
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<br><br>This would require so many people . . .and so many dollars . . .that the odds of keeping it a secret are pretty low. I have observed quite a bit of information on the Internet that was both pretty accurate and not supposed to be there . . .fas.org comes to mind as a good example. The more people that know about something . . .the harder it is to keep it secret; and this is over and above the resources/money required.
<br><br>Besides . . .if you really wanted to keep something a secret all you need to do is encrypt it. There are quite a good number of really, really good encryption techniques available . . .and while theoretically any encryption technique is breakable except for a truly random one-time pad . . .the time and resources required again make decryption pretty much a moot point. True . . .NSA can probably throw a super computer at my encrypted message . . .but I can encrypt it in 2 minutes using techniques that would take even a super computer cluster thousands of years to potentially break . . .and even then they only get *one* message . . .and not the key required to break any message
<br><br>So . . .any halfway smart terrorist or criminal or foil hat wearer . . .simply breaks his important message into 3 parts (or 4 or 5 or 10) . . .encrypts each, sends them via different gmail and AOL and whatever accounts to different destinations. The recipient saves all the parts, puts them together and has the info he needs with absolute confidence that all the code breakers using all the super computers they have can't break the contents. Encryption will always be ahead of brute force breaking of the encryption . . .absent some fundamental flaw in the technique.
<br><br>If he's really smart . . he uses the aforementioned one time pad based on truly random data . . .that sort of pad is pretty easily generated using radio static or random noise recorded off of a mike or random mouse motions on a screen . . .and a one- pad can't be broken because it is truly random data.
<br><br><br>On Dec 20, 2009, at 5:19 PM, Jared Earle wrote:
<br><br>> If Apple were to sneak a backdoor in on behalf of the NSA and someone were to spot it by monitoring IP traffic or whatever, Apple would be out of business in a matter of hours as their international sales drop to zero instantaneously. This would most likely even make Macs illegal outside the US.
<br>>
<br>> To imagine it's possible shows a lack of enough imagination. Think it through to the end. No, past the foil hat fun, right to the end.
<br>>
<br>> Nothing to worry about, unless you like worrying about stuff; if that's the case, pretend it's possible and run with it. Cos it ain't.
<br>> ---------------------------------------------
<br>There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.
<br><br>neil
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<br><a href="http://old.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=26868111&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">MacOSX-talk@...</a>
<br><a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://old.nabble.com/OmniGroup---MacOSX-General-f14336.html" embed="fixTarget[14336]" target="_top" >OmniGroup - MacOSX-General</a></p>tag:old.nabble.com,2006:post-26867959NSAnimatablePropertyContainer and delegate2009-12-20T14:44:57Z2009-12-20T14:44:57ZChristiaan Hofman-2I need to use delegate methods for animations run through NSAnimatablePropertyContainer (-animator proxy) to know when the animation has finished. The main problem is CAAnimation's buggy behavior of retaining its delegate (I am aware it's as designed, but that only means it's a design bug).
<br><br>So my basic question is: how am I supposed to use (set/unset) the delegate of an animation that's run behind the scene by the animator proxy?
<br><br>Some observations.
<br><br>To be able to set the delegate, I need to provide my own animation, probably through -setAnimations:, or otherwise by overriding -animationForKey:, because the default animation doesn't allow the delegate to be set for some reason (which I don't understand).
<br><br>However, I can't just set the delegate for this custom animation, because that results in a retain cycle, and therefore a leak (that's why the behavior noted above is buggy).
<br><br>Therefore, I need to set the delegate temporarily, only during the animation. Unfortunately, NSAnimatablePropertyContainer does not expose anything like CALayer's -addAnimation:forKey: to run an animation only once and dispose of it afterwards. But this also means that I need to remove the delegate at an appropriate time. What time would that be?
<br><br>What makes it even more complicated is that the animation that's actually run is NOT the animation set in the -animations dictionary. It's apparently some copy. However, that copy is passed to the delegate method, rather than the animation on which I would set the delegate.
<br><br>So, then how should I go about working around the retain cycle problem?
<br><br>thanks,
<br>Christiaan
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