Nabble - Mailman

Re: Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T21:27:05Z

* Patrick Ben Koetter <p@...>:
> From my daily work with mailman the following "modified in some way"-tasks
> come to my mind immediately:
>
> - apply client and content policy that differs from the port 25 anti-spam
> policy
> - add DKIM signatures because it is clear mailman messages are ORIGINATING
> from our network

I seem to remember a certain training where the two of us were showing
some very different ways on how to deal with individual policies ;-)

I don't think changing the default port would be such a great idea.
The submission port is widely used for messages submitted by _end
users_ - with all the necessary precautions in place, i.e. DNS checks,
SMTP AUTH and content filtering (at least virus filtering).

MM generated messages don't need DNS or virus checks - the messages
were already scanned when they entered the system, and temporary
rejects on DNS errors are detrimental to MM's bounce recognizing
abilities. There's a high probability you'd have to create a SMTP
listener with a dedicated policy set anyways - changing SMTPPORT in
mm_cfg.py is only a very minor task in setting up a mailing list
server.

Cheers
Stefan
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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-29T18:58:32Z

Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
> * Barry Warsaw <barry@...>:
>>> - send the web interface off to a usability lab
>> +1. IIRC, Terri was going to look into this, but I'm not sure
>> what's happened with that.
> She did and offered a contact. As soon as the web interface has come to a
> usable state I will try to set the testing on the tracks.

Yup, I've got the appropriate people interested, but they're waiting for
a design to test before we hash out the details of a lab study. Really
looking forwards to working with this team -- I've been very impressed
with what they do and the insights they garner.

Incidentally, how's that web interface coming? I don't want to make any
promises yet, but if work permits I'd like to take a bit of an open
source holiday and hack for a week mid-december... I was tentatively
thinking archives, but I could be convinced to poke somewhere else. :)

Terri
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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: MM 3 alpha 4: UnicodeWarning

2009-11-29T18:53:18Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

> I just sent a message to my freshly installed MM 3 alpha 4 (on
> Ubuntu 9.04)
> and got the following warning:
>
> Nov 29 23:53:51 mailman postfix/lmtp[8620]: D409D32E12: to=<test@...
> >, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:8025, delay=1.8,
> delays=0.07/0.01/0/1.7, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok)
> Nov 29 23:53:51 mailman postfix/qmgr[8613]: D409D32E12: removed
> /root/mailman/src/mailman/rules/administrivia.py:84: UnicodeWarning:
> Unicode equal comparison failed to convert both arguments to Unicode
> - interpreting them as being unequal
> if line == '':
>
> The delivery worked though.

Interesting. Do you have a copy of that message? Is it reproducible?

-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T18:07:28Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 8:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> I still don't think it's a good idea until we've checked that most
> popular OS distros supply all their MTAs configured to accept on port
> 587, and we had better have a bullet-proof autoconfigurator for it.
> MTA issues are the biggest FAQ that we don't have a good canned answer
> for, and this is not going to make them fewer without a lot of
> "cooperation" from MTA packagers.

That would be good to know. Maybe someone would like to contribute a
script that did a bit of probing and spit out a sample configuration
file?

> On this family-oriented channel, I think it is best not to describe
> the pain this will cause cPanel and Plesk clients.

IWBNI those folks would engage with us early (or, hmm, at all?) so
that we could at least understand their requirements.

-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T17:55:18Z

Patrick Ben Koetter writes:

> To clarify: I don't want to require users to authenticate in order
> to allow them to send. I want mailman to use a stanardized port for
> message submission (and that brings in the authentication
> requirement).

Oh, so this is outgoing? Now I see.

I still don't think it's a good idea until we've checked that most
popular OS distros supply all their MTAs configured to accept on port
587, and we had better have a bullet-proof autoconfigurator for it.
MTA issues are the biggest FAQ that we don't have a good canned answer
for, and this is not going to make them fewer without a lot of
"cooperation" from MTA packagers.

On this family-oriented channel, I think it is best not to describe
the pain this will cause cPanel and Plesk clients.

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

MM 3 alpha 4: UnicodeWarning

2009-11-29T15:03:04Z

I just sent a message to my freshly installed MM 3 alpha 4 (on Ubuntu 9.04)
and got the following warning:

Nov 29 23:53:51 mailman postfix/lmtp[8620]: D409D32E12: to=<test@...>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:8025, delay=1.8, delays=0.07/0.01/0/1.7, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok)
Nov 29 23:53:51 mailman postfix/qmgr[8613]: D409D32E12: removed
/root/mailman/src/mailman/rules/administrivia.py:84: UnicodeWarning: Unicode equal comparison failed to convert both arguments to Unicode - interpreting them as being unequal
if line == '':

The delivery worked though.

p@rick

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-29T14:02:32Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

>> +1. IIRC, Terri was going to look into this, but I'm not sure
>> what's happened with that.
>
> She did and offered a contact. As soon as the web interface has come
> to a
> usable state I will try to set the testing on the tracks.

Cool.
-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: question about mailman issues i am experiencing

2009-11-29T13:30:27Z

inksanity@... wrote:
>
>I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3

Actually, that's not ours, it's cPanel's. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9> for a bit on the difference.

>The abridged version of my issue is this:
>
>I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people. When I send emails thru the mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there (due to spam filters & server restrictions).

The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9> has some suggestions about
this.

>I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 2000). Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on my list? For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name. Is it not possible for me to send email to members A-C then wait a few hours and send D-F then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?

You could break your list into a number of separate sub-lists and post
to those one at a time. Mailman doesn't have a way to limit it's
sending rate. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/j4A9>.

--
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San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-29T12:29:04Z

* Barry Warsaw <barry@...>:

> >May I complement the list?
> >
> >- logo contest
>
> Yep, it's actually on my TODO list after I get 3.0a4 out. I also
> need to finish setting up i18n.
>
> >- send the web interface off to a usability lab
>
> +1. IIRC, Terri was going to look into this, but I'm not sure
> what's happened with that.

She did and offered a contact. As soon as the web interface has come to a
usable state I will try to set the testing on the tracks.

p@rick

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Mailman 3.0 alpha 4

2009-11-29T12:01:49Z

I'm happy to announce the release of Mailman 3.0 alpha 4.

Things are getting quite real now. It's pretty easy to hook Mailman
up to Postfix for both incoming and outgoing mail[1] and you can
create mailing lists and populate them with addresses. Currently, you
must do this through the command line though.

Please download the latest tarball or grab the bzr branch, and put it
through some paces. Now is a good time to comment on the design and
feature set for Mailman 3 as we are still in alpha. I'm still planning
on releasing a first beta by the end of the year -- your testing,
feedback, input, and contributions can help with that!

You can download the tarball either from the Cheeseshop, or Launchpad:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a4
https://launchpad.net/mailman

Please note: Mailman 3.0a4 is not production ready yet.

Enjoy,
-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Announce

Mailman 3.0 alpha 4

2009-11-29T12:01:49Z

I'm happy to announce the release of Mailman 3.0 alpha 4.

Things are getting quite real now. It's pretty easy to hook Mailman
up to Postfix for both incoming and outgoing mail[1] and you can
create mailing lists and populate them with addresses. Currently, you
must do this through the command line though.

Please download the latest tarball or grab the bzr branch, and put it
through some paces. Now is a good time to comment on the design and
feature set for Mailman 3 as we are still in alpha. I'm still planning
on releasing a first beta by the end of the year -- your testing,
feedback, input, and contributions can help with that!

You can download the tarball either from the Cheeseshop, or Launchpad:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a4
https://launchpad.net/mailman

Please note: Mailman 3.0a4 is not production ready yet.

Enjoy,
-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Mailman 3.0 alpha 4

2009-11-29T12:01:49Z

I'm happy to announce the release of Mailman 3.0 alpha 4.

Things are getting quite real now. It's pretty easy to hook Mailman
up to Postfix for both incoming and outgoing mail[1] and you can
create mailing lists and populate them with addresses. Currently, you
must do this through the command line though.

Please download the latest tarball or grab the bzr branch, and put it
through some paces. Now is a good time to comment on the design and
feature set for Mailman 3 as we are still in alpha. I'm still planning
on releasing a first beta by the end of the year -- your testing,
feedback, input, and contributions can help with that!

You can download the tarball either from the Cheeseshop, or Launchpad:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a4
https://launchpad.net/mailman

Please note: Mailman 3.0a4 is not production ready yet.

Enjoy,
-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T11:02:33Z

* Barry Warsaw <barry@...>:

> On Nov 29, 2009, at 4:30 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
>
> >What would we have to do, to make port 587 the default port? In
> >section 4 the
> >RFC says, a MSA MUST do all of the following:
> >
> >1. General Submission Rejection Code
> >2. Ensure All Domains Are Fully-Qualified
> >3. Require Authentication
> >
> >To cut it short: 1. and 2. are trivial (at least in Postfix and I don't
> >know the others MTAs well enough to tell for them too). 3. requires to add
> >SMTP AUTH functionality to Mailman's SMTP client.
> >
> >How should we implement SMTP AUTH in the MM SMTP client?
> >
> >I propose for a start plaintext (PLAIN, LOGIN) and shared-secret mechanisms
> >(CRAM-MD5, DIGEST-MD5) should be added to the SMTP client. Those are the
> >ones used most widely in every day SMTP AUTH.
> >
> >Later implementations could add GSSAPI and EXTERNAL. If plaintext
> >mechanisms are added we should also consider to add STARTTLS functionality
> >to MM's SMTP client to shield credentials while they are sent in a
> >plaintext authentication session.
>
> Should we decide to do this, changing the port number is easy.
> There's already a configuration variable for this (currently set of
> course to 25).
>
> As for implementing SMTP AUTH, we are limited by what Python's
> smtplib supports. From a cursory inspection of the module in Python
> 2.6, it looks like it supports PLAIN, LOGIN, and CRAM-MD5. That may
> mean that the only thing we need to add to Mailman is plumbing for
> setting the user name and password in the config file.

Sounds like a thing rather easily done.

> Please open a bug on the Mailman project in Launchpad for this.

done.
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/490044>

p@rick

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-29T10:55:08Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 1:39 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dhcp3/+bug/340383>

Thanks, I've added this to the wiki page.

>>>> consulting /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts, and I had to change
>>>> both /etc/hosts
>>>
>>> That's because LaMont Jones delivers the Debian/Ubuntu Postfix
>>> package
>>> chrooted. If Postfix runs chrooted it uses /var/spool/postfix/etc/
>>> hosts
>>> instead of /etc/hosts.
>>
>> Ah, the pieces click together. Thanks!
>
> BTW: Postfix notes that /etc/hosts and /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts
> differ on
> reload (at least on Debian/Ubuntu) and it sends a simliar note to
> syslog.

Yeah, that's how I found out about it in the first place. ;)

> I know experience tells us not to look at logs because logging and
> writing
> documentation is something you only get when you pay for it... ;)
> However with
> Postfix it pays to read the log. Wietse did a good job on this.

Indeed!

>> Yep, I like setting the service name to mailman3. I'll note that
>> Ubuntu's Postfix-Dovecot package already has a service for mailman
>> (i.e. 2.x) which uses postfix-to-mailman.py.
>
> If we came up with a reasonable set of default settings for the
> mailman3
> service I take these to the Postfix developer list and try to have
> them added
> to the Postfix default master.cf file.

+1. I've opened LP bug 490030 to track the changes needed in Mailman.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/490030

>> Excellent! I forgot that one other thing must happen before 3.0 can
>> be released; we need a migration script from 2.1.x to 3.0.
>
> May I complement the list?
>
> - logo contest

Yep, it's actually on my TODO list after I get 3.0a4 out. I also need
to finish setting up i18n.

> - send the web interface off to a usability lab

+1. IIRC, Terri was going to look into this, but I'm not sure what's
happened with that.

-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T10:44:54Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 4:30 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

> What would we have to do, to make port 587 the default port? In
> section 4 the
> RFC says, a MSA MUST do all of the following:
>
> 1. General Submission Rejection Code
> 2. Ensure All Domains Are Fully-Qualified
> 3. Require Authentication
>
> To cut it short: 1. and 2. are trivial (at least in Postfix and I
> don't know
> the others MTAs well enough to tell for them too). 3. requires to
> add SMTP AUTH
> functionality to Mailman's SMTP client.
>
>
> How should we implement SMTP AUTH in the MM SMTP client?
>
> I propose for a start plaintext (PLAIN, LOGIN) and shared-secret
> mechanisms
> (CRAM-MD5, DIGEST-MD5) should be added to the SMTP client. Those are
> the ones
> used most widely in every day SMTP AUTH.
>
> Later implementations could add GSSAPI and EXTERNAL. If plaintext
> mechanisms
> are added we should also consider to add STARTTLS functionality to
> MM's SMTP
> client to shield credentials while they are sent in a plaintext
> authentication
> session.

Should we decide to do this, changing the port number is easy.
There's already a configuration variable for this (currently set of
course to 25).

As for implementing SMTP AUTH, we are limited by what Python's smtplib
supports. From a cursory inspection of the module in Python 2.6, it
looks like it supports PLAIN, LOGIN, and CRAM-MD5. That may mean that
the only thing we need to add to Mailman is plumbing for setting the
user name and password in the config file.

Please open a bug on the Mailman project in Launchpad for this.

-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-29T10:39:47Z

* Barry Warsaw <barry@...>:

> >>It seems that Karmic is playing tricks with /etc/hosts. I've got DNS set
> >>up to correctly resolve the VM's hostname, but there was actually an entry
> >>in /etc/hosts that set xxx.example.com to 127.0.1.1. I'm not entirely
> >>sure which process looks at what, when, but clearly this inconsistency was
> >>a key part of the problem. The other thing that surprised me was that
> >>Postfix was also
> >
> >On a sidenote: It also confuses a dhcpd server running on a machine that
> >promotes 127.0.1.1 to be xxx.example.com. I've opened a bug ticket for that
> >two Ubuntu releases ago, but it seems they only keep carrying it further
> >from release to release instead of addressing it. At least that's the
> >impression I get without knowing the real cause.
>
> What's the bug number?

<https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dhcp3/+bug/340383>

> >>consulting /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts, and I had to change
> >>both /etc/hosts
> >
> >That's because LaMont Jones delivers the Debian/Ubuntu Postfix package
> >chrooted. If Postfix runs chrooted it uses /var/spool/postfix/etc/ hosts
> >instead of /etc/hosts.
>
> Ah, the pieces click together. Thanks!

BTW: Postfix notes that /etc/hosts and /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts differ on
reload (at least on Debian/Ubuntu) and it sends a simliar note to syslog.

I know experience tells us not to look at logs because logging and writing
documentation is something you only get when you pay for it... ;) However with
Postfix it pays to read the log. Wietse did a good job on this.

> >>After a restart, everything suddenly worked exactly as expected.
> >
> >suddenly... :)
>
> Yeah. Doesn't everybody call 6 hours on a Saturday "suddenly"? :)

:)

> >>Robert was having a different problem, but hopefully he will follow up
> >>here with his experience and let us know if any of the above helps. If
> >>any Postfix experts have words of wisdom to make this better, please let
> >>me know.
> >
> >If MM relies on Postfix defaults and the postmaster changes them in Postfix
> >the MM part might end up being unusable.
> >
> >I recommend to take full control of the settings in the Postfix transport
> >map. Let MM create its own Postfix style transport map. Set the "Postfix
> >service name" (in your example its mailman3), put the hostname in square
> >brackets and set the port.
>
> Yep, I like setting the service name to mailman3. I'll note that
> Ubuntu's Postfix-Dovecot package already has a service for mailman
> (i.e. 2.x) which uses postfix-to-mailman.py.

If we came up with a reasonable set of default settings for the mailman3
service I take these to the Postfix developer list and try to have them added
to the Postfix default master.cf file.

> >>I probably need to work on better dropping of privileges for qrunners so
> >>that you can 'bin/mailman start' as root, and once the LMTP runner binds
> >>to port 24, it can drop privs to 'mailman'. I'll put that on the list for
> >>something to do after the next alpha.
> >
> >I like that idea.
> >
> >
> >>I'd also like to try to resurrect William Mead's LMTP branch. Sadly, it
> >>won't merge cleanly into trunk any more (not the least of which because
> >>it's in the wrong bzr format). If anybody would like to contribute that
> >>before I get to it, I'd be grateful.
> >>
> >>The good news is that I think Mailman 3 is getting more real every day.
> >>My plan over the next few weeks is:
> >>
> >>* release alpha 4
> >>* get i18n translations working
> >>* complete the split of the pipermail project
> >>* hopefully get Patrick and friends going on the web u/i
> >
> >I will update to the latest branch that should fix the language file
> >problem we had discovered and then we will work on the REST client/server.
>
> Excellent! I forgot that one other thing must happen before 3.0 can
> be released; we need a migration script from 2.1.x to 3.0.

May I complement the list?

- logo contest
- send the web interface off to a usability lab

p@rick

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-29T10:09:15Z

On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:22 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

> Hi!
>
> * Barry Warsaw <barry@...>:
>> I'm getting very near ready to release another alpha of Mailman 3,
>> and on the
>> prompting of a private message from Robert Niederreiter I took some
>> time to
>> fire up a VM and actually try Postfix+LMTP delivery in an
>> experimental
>> production system. I'd like to get some feedback from the Postfix
>> experts in
>> the crowd so that we can update the wiki page here:
>>
>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process
>>
>> FTR: the VM is running Ubuntu Karmic Koala 9.10 server with Postfix
>> 2.6.5 and
>> Mailman 3.0 from the lp:mailman bzr trunk.
>>
>> To start with, I mostly followed the instructions in the wiki. I
>> tried using
>> the standard lmtp transport in master.cf, creating /etc/postfix/
>> mailman_lists
>> as described in the wiki (not the dedicated list server example,
>> but the
>> earlier one on the page). I actually used:
>>
>> # Key # Value
>> test@... lmtp:xxx.example.com
>>
>> where 'xxx.example.com' is replaced by my VM's host name.
>
> Additionally you probably want to add square brackets around the
> hostname.
>
> Quoting "man 5 transport":
>
> ...the [] suppress MX lookups. This prevents mail routing loops
> when your
> machine is primary MX host for example.com.

This could have been Robert's problem. I'd forgotten that we actually
do create the transport map automatically, if you set the
configuration to use Postfix's LMTP delivery (this is the default).
In that case, we generate a file called data/postfix_lmtp (and use
postmap to create the .db file) which should be usable directly as the
transport_map. I've changed it to include the brackets around the
host name.

This actually greatly simplifies things, since all you need to do is
set transport_maps and local_recipients and you're done.

>> The first gotcha is that unless you start Mailman as root, you
>> can't bind its
>> LMTP server to port 24, which is Postfix's default. By default
>> Mailman's LMTP
>> server listens on localhost:8024, so you either need to append ':
>> 8024' on the
>> Value above, or set
>>
>> lmtp_tcp_port = 8024
>>
>> in Postfix's main.cf. I ended up doing the latter, but both work.
>
> I think an option in MM3 should make this configurable.

It does. Also putting the port in the Mailman generated transport_map
means the right thing will always happen (modulo the permission
dropping part which won't make it into 3.0a4).

>> I set up transport_maps and local_recipient_maps just as outlined
>> in the wiki
>> page, fired everything up, and then sent a message to the VM's
>> Postfix while
>> tailing the logs. I kept seeing "Connection refused" messages from
>> Postfix
>> and it never hit Mailman's LMTP server.
>>
>> This was highly confusing because I could see in the Postfix logs
>> that it was
>> finding the right IP address for its own hostname and it was trying
>> the right
>> port number. Mailman's lmtp.log file claimed it was listening on
>> the right IP
>> and port, and I could even telnet to it just fine. So what was
>> Postfix doing?
>>
>> It seems that Karmic is playing tricks with /etc/hosts. I've got
>> DNS set up
>> to correctly resolve the VM's hostname, but there was actually an
>> entry in
>> /etc/hosts that set xxx.example.com to 127.0.1.1. I'm not entirely
>> sure which
>> process looks at what, when, but clearly this inconsistency was a
>> key part of
>> the problem. The other thing that surprised me was that Postfix
>> was also
>
> On a sidenote: It also confuses a dhcpd server running on a machine
> that
> promotes 127.0.1.1 to be xxx.example.com. I've opened a bug ticket
> for that
> two Ubuntu releases ago, but it seems they only keep carrying it
> further from
> release to release instead of addressing it. At least that's the
> impression I
> get without knowing the real cause.

What's the bug number?

>> consulting /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts, and I had to change both /
>> etc/hosts
>
> That's because LaMont Jones delivers the Debian/Ubuntu Postfix package
> chrooted. If Postfix runs chrooted it uses /var/spool/postfix/etc/
> hosts
> instead of /etc/hosts.

Ah, the pieces click together. Thanks!

>> and that file as well, so that the IP addresses jived with DNS.
>> This is
>> unsatisfactory, but it seemed critical to getting things working.
>>
>> The last piece of the puzzle was to not use Postfix's standard lmtp
>> server in
>
> lmtp client... SCNR

Erp. ;)

>> master.cf, but to define a new one like so:
>>
>> mailman3 unix - - - - - lmtp -o disable_dns_lookups=yes
>>
>> and then change the mailman_lists transport map to
>>
>> # Key # Value
>> test@... mailman3:xxx.example.com
>>
>> After a restart, everything suddenly worked exactly as expected.
>
> suddenly... :)

Yeah. Doesn't everybody call 6 hours on a Saturday "suddenly"? :)

>> Robert was having a different problem, but hopefully he will follow
>> up here
>> with his experience and let us know if any of the above helps. If
>> any Postfix
>> experts have words of wisdom to make this better, please let me know.
>
> If MM relies on Postfix defaults and the postmaster changes them in
> Postfix
> the MM part might end up being unusable.
>
> I recommend to take full control of the settings in the Postfix
> transport map.
> Let MM create its own Postfix style transport map. Set the "Postfix
> service
> name" (in your example its mailman3), put the hostname in square
> brackets and
> set the port.

Yep, I like setting the service name to mailman3. I'll note that
Ubuntu's Postfix-Dovecot package already has a service for mailman
(i.e. 2.x) which uses postfix-to-mailman.py.

>> I probably need to work on better dropping of privileges for
>> qrunners so that
>> you can 'bin/mailman start' as root, and once the LMTP runner binds
>> to port
>> 24, it can drop privs to 'mailman'. I'll put that on the list for
>> something
>> to do after the next alpha.
>
> I like that idea.
>
>
>> I'd also like to try to resurrect William Mead's LMTP branch.
>> Sadly, it won't
>> merge cleanly into trunk any more (not the least of which because
>> it's in the
>> wrong bzr format). If anybody would like to contribute that before
>> I get to
>> it, I'd be grateful.
>>
>> The good news is that I think Mailman 3 is getting more real every
>> day. My
>> plan over the next few weeks is:
>>
>> * release alpha 4
>> * get i18n translations working
>> * complete the split of the pipermail project
>> * hopefully get Patrick and friends going on the web u/i
>
> I will update to the latest branch that should fix the language file
> problem
> we had discovered and then we will work on the REST client/server.

Excellent! I forgot that one other thing must happen before 3.0 can
be released; we need a migration script from 2.1.x to 3.0.

I'll update the wiki page and release 3.0a4 a little later today.
Then perhaps other folks can try the LMTP connection on other *nix
distributions.

Thanks Patrick,
-Barry

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

question about mailman issues i am experiencing

2009-11-29T09:42:19Z

Dear Mailman,

I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3

The abridged version of my issue is this:

I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people. When I send emails thru the mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there (due to spam filters & server restrictions).

I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 2000). Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on my list? For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name. Is it not possible for me to send email to members A-C then wait a few hours and send D-F then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?

Thank you so much for your assistance.

Steve
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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T07:55:01Z

* Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen@...>:

> Patrick Ben Koetter writes:
>
> > I'd like to propose a change in MM3s default SMTP client port from port 25
> > (transport) to port 587 (submission).
>
> I don't see a real justification for such a change, given the
> authentication requirement. While Mailman can be used in relatively
> closed setups, its central mission remains the more-or-less open
> discussion list as far as I can see. Closed lists, announcement
> lists, and the like are very common, but I don't think they are the
> overwhelming majority of uses yet. Until they are, changing the
> default is an annoyance to many.

The change I propose is not driven by considerations concerning pro or con
open/closed setups. Maybe you misunderstood me or I am misunderstanding your
reply.

To clarify: I don't want to require users to authenticate in order to allow
them to send. I want mailman to use a stanardized port for message submission
(and that brings in the authentication requirement).

Everybody seems to use a dedicated port to inject messages coming from
mailman. People do that either to completely avoid applying expensive content
filter rules to all messages coming from mailman or they do it to only run a
minimal subset of content filter rules.

I want to standardize that dedicated port and I propose to use the submission
port as recommended by RFC for scenarios like that. The authentication
requirement applies to the mailman server (read: SMTP client) only. It can be
set once in the global mailman configuration file. Users don't need to do
anything. It's completely transparent to them.

p@rick

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T04:40:41Z

Patrick Ben Koetter writes:

> I'd like to propose a change in MM3s default SMTP client port from port 25
> (transport) to port 587 (submission).

I don't see a real justification for such a change, given the
authentication requirement. While Mailman can be used in relatively
closed setups, its central mission remains the more-or-less open
discussion list as far as I can see. Closed lists, announcement
lists, and the like are very common, but I don't think they are the
overwhelming majority of uses yet. Until they are, changing the
default is an annoyance to many.

It might be interesting to have both ports open by default, allowing a
different policy to be applied to each one.

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

2009-11-29T04:23:21Z

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>
>I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which is running Debian Lenny. Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 9.04 host has 2.1.12. Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list data files?

>In general, there could be, but this particular downgrade is safe. In
>fact, I think any downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.1.y is safe as long as
>12 >= x > y >= 5. There are other downgrades that will work too, but
>without actually looking at the datafile changes, I'm not sure which
>ones will or won't. Downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.0.y is definitely not
>safe.

Thanks; I staged this on a VM running on my own system before putting it live; it seems to be working ok now.

Andrew.

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Mailman and Submission port

2009-11-29T01:30:15Z

MM developers,

I'd like to propose a change in MM3s default SMTP client port from port 25
(transport) to port 587 (submission).

Why? From my point of view mailman rather is a mail component that introduces
messages into a mail system than one that sits between MTAs and assists in
transporting messages that pass by.

RFC 4409 <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4409.txt> explicitly defines a
submission port (587) for mail systems whose purpose is to accept message from
MUAs:

However, SMTP is now also widely used as a message *submission*
protocol, that is, a means for Message User Agents (MUAs) to
introduce new messages into the MTA routing network. The process
that accepts message submissions from MUAs is termed a Message
Submission Agent (MSA).

Apart from doing 'the right thing' what would be the benefit?

The RFC gives some ideas in a later section:

(...) Even when submitted messages are complete, local site policy may
dictate that the message text be examined or modified in some way, e.g., to
conceal local name or address spaces. Such completions or modifications
have been shown to cause harm when performed by downstream MTAs -- that is,
MTAs after the first-hop submission MTA -- and are in general considered to
be outside the province of standardized MTA functionality.

>From my daily work with mailman the following "modified in some way"-tasks
come to my mind immediately:

- apply client and content policy that differs from the port 25 anti-spam
policy
- add DKIM signatures because it is clear mailman messages are ORIGINATING
from our network

What would we have to do, to make port 587 the default port? In section 4 the
RFC says, a MSA MUST do all of the following:

1. General Submission Rejection Code
2. Ensure All Domains Are Fully-Qualified
3. Require Authentication

To cut it short: 1. and 2. are trivial (at least in Postfix and I don't know
the others MTAs well enough to tell for them too). 3. requires to add SMTP AUTH
functionality to Mailman's SMTP client.

How should we implement SMTP AUTH in the MM SMTP client?

I propose for a start plaintext (PLAIN, LOGIN) and shared-secret mechanisms
(CRAM-MD5, DIGEST-MD5) should be added to the SMTP client. Those are the ones
used most widely in every day SMTP AUTH.

Later implementations could add GSSAPI and EXTERNAL. If plaintext mechanisms
are added we should also consider to add STARTTLS functionality to MM's SMTP
client to shield credentials while they are sent in a plaintext authentication
session.

p@rick

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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-29T00:22:25Z

Hi!

* Barry Warsaw <barry@...>:

> I'm getting very near ready to release another alpha of Mailman 3, and on the
> prompting of a private message from Robert Niederreiter I took some time to
> fire up a VM and actually try Postfix+LMTP delivery in an experimental
> production system. I'd like to get some feedback from the Postfix experts in
> the crowd so that we can update the wiki page here:
>
> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process
>
> FTR: the VM is running Ubuntu Karmic Koala 9.10 server with Postfix 2.6.5 and
> Mailman 3.0 from the lp:mailman bzr trunk.
>
> To start with, I mostly followed the instructions in the wiki. I tried using
> the standard lmtp transport in master.cf, creating /etc/postfix/mailman_lists
> as described in the wiki (not the dedicated list server example, but the
> earlier one on the page). I actually used:
>
> # Key # Value
> test@... lmtp:xxx.example.com
>
> where 'xxx.example.com' is replaced by my VM's host name.

Additionally you probably want to add square brackets around the hostname.

Quoting "man 5 transport":

...the [] suppress MX lookups. This prevents mail routing loops when your
machine is primary MX host for example.com.

> The first gotcha is that unless you start Mailman as root, you can't bind its
> LMTP server to port 24, which is Postfix's default. By default Mailman's LMTP
> server listens on localhost:8024, so you either need to append ':8024' on the
> Value above, or set
>
> lmtp_tcp_port = 8024
>
> in Postfix's main.cf. I ended up doing the latter, but both work.

I think an option in MM3 should make this configurable.

> I set up transport_maps and local_recipient_maps just as outlined in the wiki
> page, fired everything up, and then sent a message to the VM's Postfix while
> tailing the logs. I kept seeing "Connection refused" messages from Postfix
> and it never hit Mailman's LMTP server.
>
> This was highly confusing because I could see in the Postfix logs that it was
> finding the right IP address for its own hostname and it was trying the right
> port number. Mailman's lmtp.log file claimed it was listening on the right IP
> and port, and I could even telnet to it just fine. So what was Postfix doing?
>
> It seems that Karmic is playing tricks with /etc/hosts. I've got DNS set up
> to correctly resolve the VM's hostname, but there was actually an entry in
> /etc/hosts that set xxx.example.com to 127.0.1.1. I'm not entirely sure which
> process looks at what, when, but clearly this inconsistency was a key part of
> the problem. The other thing that surprised me was that Postfix was also

On a sidenote: It also confuses a dhcpd server running on a machine that
promotes 127.0.1.1 to be xxx.example.com. I've opened a bug ticket for that
two Ubuntu releases ago, but it seems they only keep carrying it further from
release to release instead of addressing it. At least that's the impression I
get without knowing the real cause.

> consulting /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts, and I had to change both /etc/hosts

That's because LaMont Jones delivers the Debian/Ubuntu Postfix package
chrooted. If Postfix runs chrooted it uses /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts
instead of /etc/hosts.

> and that file as well, so that the IP addresses jived with DNS. This is
> unsatisfactory, but it seemed critical to getting things working.
>
> The last piece of the puzzle was to not use Postfix's standard lmtp server in

lmtp client... SCNR

> master.cf, but to define a new one like so:
>
> mailman3 unix - - - - - lmtp -o disable_dns_lookups=yes
>
> and then change the mailman_lists transport map to
>
> # Key # Value
> test@... mailman3:xxx.example.com
>
> After a restart, everything suddenly worked exactly as expected.

suddenly... :)

> Robert was having a different problem, but hopefully he will follow up here
> with his experience and let us know if any of the above helps. If any Postfix
> experts have words of wisdom to make this better, please let me know.

If MM relies on Postfix defaults and the postmaster changes them in Postfix
the MM part might end up being unusable.

I recommend to take full control of the settings in the Postfix transport map.
Let MM create its own Postfix style transport map. Set the "Postfix service
name" (in your example its mailman3), put the hostname in square brackets and
set the port.

> I probably need to work on better dropping of privileges for qrunners so that
> you can 'bin/mailman start' as root, and once the LMTP runner binds to port
> 24, it can drop privs to 'mailman'. I'll put that on the list for something
> to do after the next alpha.

I like that idea.

> I'd also like to try to resurrect William Mead's LMTP branch. Sadly, it won't
> merge cleanly into trunk any more (not the least of which because it's in the
> wrong bzr format). If anybody would like to contribute that before I get to
> it, I'd be grateful.
>
> The good news is that I think Mailman 3 is getting more real every day. My
> plan over the next few weeks is:
>
> * release alpha 4
> * get i18n translations working
> * complete the split of the pipermail project
> * hopefully get Patrick and friends going on the web u/i

I will update to the latest branch that should fix the language file problem
we had discovered and then we will work on the REST client/server.

p@rick

--
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From forum: Mailman - Dev

Re: Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

2009-11-28T19:46:13Z

Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>
>I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which is running Debian Lenny. Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 9.04 host has 2.1.12. Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list data files?

In general, there could be, but this particular downgrade is safe. In
fact, I think any downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.1.y is safe as long as
12 >= x > y >= 5. There are other downgrades that will work too, but
without actually looking at the datafile changes, I'm not sure which
ones will or won't. Downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.0.y is definitely not
safe.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark@...> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Mailman 3 and LMTP

2009-11-28T14:53:00Z

Hi everybody,

I'm getting very near ready to release another alpha of Mailman 3, and on the
prompting of a private message from Robert Niederreiter I took some time to
fire up a VM and actually try Postfix+LMTP delivery in an experimental
production system. I'd like to get some feedback from the Postfix experts in
the crowd so that we can update the wiki page here:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process

FTR: the VM is running Ubuntu Karmic Koala 9.10 server with Postfix 2.6.5 and
Mailman 3.0 from the lp:mailman bzr trunk.

To start with, I mostly followed the instructions in the wiki. I tried using
the standard lmtp transport in master.cf, creating /etc/postfix/mailman_lists
as described in the wiki (not the dedicated list server example, but the
earlier one on the page). I actually used:

# Key # Value
test@... lmtp:xxx.example.com

where 'xxx.example.com' is replaced by my VM's host name.

The first gotcha is that unless you start Mailman as root, you can't bind its
LMTP server to port 24, which is Postfix's default. By default Mailman's LMTP
server listens on localhost:8024, so you either need to append ':8024' on the
Value above, or set

lmtp_tcp_port = 8024

in Postfix's main.cf. I ended up doing the latter, but both work.

I set up transport_maps and local_recipient_maps just as outlined in the wiki
page, fired everything up, and then sent a message to the VM's Postfix while
tailing the logs. I kept seeing "Connection refused" messages from Postfix
and it never hit Mailman's LMTP server.

This was highly confusing because I could see in the Postfix logs that it was
finding the right IP address for its own hostname and it was trying the right
port number. Mailman's lmtp.log file claimed it was listening on the right IP
and port, and I could even telnet to it just fine. So what was Postfix doing?

It seems that Karmic is playing tricks with /etc/hosts. I've got DNS set up
to correctly resolve the VM's hostname, but there was actually an entry in
/etc/hosts that set xxx.example.com to 127.0.1.1. I'm not entirely sure which
process looks at what, when, but clearly this inconsistency was a key part of
the problem. The other thing that surprised me was that Postfix was also
consulting /var/spool/postfix/etc/hosts, and I had to change both /etc/hosts
and that file as well, so that the IP addresses jived with DNS. This is
unsatisfactory, but it seemed critical to getting things working.

The last piece of the puzzle was to not use Postfix's standard lmtp server in
master.cf, but to define a new one like so:

mailman3 unix - - - - - lmtp -o disable_dns_lookups=yes

and then change the mailman_lists transport map to

# Key # Value
test@... mailman3:xxx.example.com

After a restart, everything suddenly worked exactly as expected.

Robert was having a different problem, but hopefully he will follow up here
with his experience and let us know if any of the above helps. If any Postfix
experts have words of wisdom to make this better, please let me know.

I probably need to work on better dropping of privileges for qrunners so that
you can 'bin/mailman start' as root, and once the LMTP runner binds to port
24, it can drop privs to 'mailman'. I'll put that on the list for something
to do after the next alpha.

I'd also like to try to resurrect William Mead's LMTP branch. Sadly, it won't
merge cleanly into trunk any more (not the least of which because it's in the
wrong bzr format). If anybody would like to contribute that before I get to
it, I'd be grateful.

The good news is that I think Mailman 3 is getting more real every day. My
plan over the next few weeks is:

* release alpha 4
* get i18n translations working
* complete the split of the pipermail project
* hopefully get Patrick and friends going on the web u/i
* announce something <wink>
* create a live test list that anybody can subscribe to

If you've been waiting to play with Mailman 3, wait no longer!

-Barry

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signature.asc (852 bytes) Download Attachment

From forum: Mailman - Dev

Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

2009-11-28T09:03:38Z

Hi,

I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which is running Debian Lenny. Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 9.04 host has 2.1.12. Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list data files?

Thanks.
Andrew.

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: Email commands for list moderator

2009-11-28T08:01:06Z

Administrateur wrote:
>
>I'm using Mailman and would like to share some administrative actions
>to the moderator.
>
>Actually I can't find in any documentation the way for the list
>moderator to set the 'moderate' flag to a list member.

The moderate flag for a list member can only be SET from the list's
admin interface which requires login with the list admin or site
password.

The list moderator password if set and different from the admin
password allows only access to the admindb interface. In the admindb
interface, there is a checkbox to clear the poster's moderate flag
when a held post is from a moderated member, but there is no way to
set the flag.

The list can also be set to moderate new members by default (Privacy
options... -> Sender filters -> default_member_moderation), but there
is no way for someone with only the list moderator password to set a
members moderate flag.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark@...> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: HTML messages not passed, content filtering settings ignored

2009-11-28T07:52:10Z

Christian Stalberg wrote:
>
> I am using digests. here is the header of the digest I am receiving
> with the header of one of its messages:

In my original reply I wrote "perhaps you are seeing a 'scrubbed'
message in a digest". That is the case here. HTML cannot be included
in the plain text digest, so it is 'scrubbed' (i.e. stored aside and
replaced by a link).

[...]

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:13:40 -0500 (EST)
> From: Admin <admin@...>
> To: halliburtonwatch@...
> Subject: [halliburtonwatch] Lawyers: government misconduct in
> halliburton case
> Message-ID: <1259252020.7133@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/private/halliburtonwatch/attachments/20091126/a60933e9/attachment-0001.htm>

The HTML part was removed, stored aside and replaced by the above note
and link. The link appears to be broken (it redirects to a page that
says there is no website at that domain), but that is a separate issue.

[...]
> Now here's the header of that same message sent to the list for
> distribution:

If you want to see the same thing in the digest as in the individual
message, you must select MIME as your digest format.

The list admin can uncheck 'plain' on the Membership Management... ->
Membership List page or the user can select MIME for "Get MIME or
Plain Text Digests?" on the user's options page.

Also, the admin can set Digest options -> mime_is_default_digest to
MIME to make MIME the default digest format for new list members.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark@...> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: HTML messages not passed, content filtering settings ignored

2009-11-28T06:22:38Z

I am using digests. here is the header of the digest I am receiving
with the header of one of its messages:

From line From halliburtonwatch-bounces@... Thu
Nov 26 14:10:47 2009
Return-Path: <halliburtonwatch-bounces@...>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10)
onzarathustra.mitigation.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED
autolearn=failedversion=3.2.5
Received: from zarathustra.mitigation.com (wa1 [127.0.0.1])by
zarathustra.mitigation.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id
nAQJAh11009279;Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:10:46 -0500
From: halliburtonwatch-request@...
Subject: halliburtonwatch Digest, Vol 30, Issue 14
To: halliburtonwatch@...
Reply-To: halliburtonwatch@...
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:10:35 -0500
Message-ID:
<mailman.1.1259262635.9269.halliburtonwatch@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: halliburtonwatch@...
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: halliburton Watch <halliburtonwatch.halliburtonwatch.net>
List-Unsubscribe:
<http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/options/halliburtonwatch>,
<mailto:halliburtonwatch-request@...?subject=unsubscri
be>
List-Archive:
<http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/private/halliburtonwatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:halliburtonwatch@...>
List-Help:
<mailto:halliburtonwatch-request@...?subject=help>
List-Subscribe:
<http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/listinfo/halliburtonwatch>,
<mailto:halliburtonwatch-request@...?subject=subscribe
>
Sender: halliburtonwatch-bounces@...
Errors-To: halliburtonwatch-bounces@...
Message contents
Send halliburtonwatch mailing list submissions to
halliburtonwatch@...
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/listinfo/halliburtonwatch
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
halliburtonwatch-request@...
You can reach the person managing the list at
halliburtonwatch-owner@...
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of halliburtonwatch digest..."
Today's Topics:
3. Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case (Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:13:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Admin <admin@...>
To: halliburtonwatch@...
Subject: [halliburtonwatch] Lawyers: government misconduct in
halliburton case
Message-ID: <1259252020.7133@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://halliburtonwatch.net/mailman/private/halliburtonwatch/attachmen
ts/20091126/a60933e9/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case
By PETE YOST (AP) 1 hour ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gEkqkbr5Pndf7Tzj86eSq
aSbPHSAD9C79K601
WASHINGTON Defense lawyers are...
++++++
Now here's the header of that same message sent to the list for
distribution:

From line From admin@... Thu Nov 26 11:13:42 2009
From: Admin <admin@...>
Subject: Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case
To: halliburtonwatch@...
Cc:
Bcc:
Message-Id: <1259252020.7133@...>
X-Originating-IP: 24.7.1.30
X-Mailer: Usermin 1.420
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:13:40 -0500 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="bound1259252022"
Message contents View as text
Lawyers: government misconduct in halliburton case
By PETE YOST (AP) 1 hour ago

On 11/27/2009 10:23 Mark Sapiro <mark@...> wrote ..
> Christian Stalberg wrote:
> >
> > In looking at the output I may see the problem. I have been
running
> > Mailman and upgraded versions and moved Mailman from one server
to
> > another for years. Look at this output from my list wherein I see
> > values like 'False' where the legals values are supposed to be
either
> > yes or no:
> >
> > # When you scrub attachments, they are stored in archive area and
links
> > # are made in the message so that the member can access via web
> > browser.
> > # If you want the attachments totally disappear, you can use
content
> > # filter options.
> > #
> > # legal values are:
> > # 0 = "No"
> > # 1 = "Yes"
> > scrub_nondigest = False
> >
> > could this be the problem where an upgrade was not done properly
where
> > I have an old, out of date 'config' file whose values are
unrecognized
> > or ?
>
>
> This is not a problem. config_list says legal values are 0 and 1 for
> False/True settings to accommodate older Pythons that didn't define
> False and True, but False and True for these is actually fine.
>
> Besides, if your issue were due to scrub_nondigest being True, you
> could tell as the HTML wouldn't just disappear, it would be replaced
> by a stanza saying "an HTML attachment has been scrubbed" with a link
> to wher the HTML was stored.
>
> Do the messages from the list contain a
>
> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.x
>
> header? If not, Mailman's content filtering hasn't changed them.
>
> What is the exact MIME structure of an HTML message to the list and
of
> the message received from the list?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B.
Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Email commands for list moderator

2009-11-28T03:19:22Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

I'm using Mailman and would like to share some administrative actions
to the moderator.

Actually I can't find in any documentation the way for the list
moderator to set the 'moderate' flag to a list member.

Somebody knows somethong about that possibility ?

Sincerely

- ---------------------------------------
System Administrator
Gregory DAVID
administrateur@...
http://www.campusfm.fr

GPG : 0x4437F8A1

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAksRBzoACgkQYPicgEQ3+KGOmACfU5r8puDnx7s7dNgN+0F3FDoc
rRoAn2JBHfPzCc37+T76u9fg6pTv9ReP
=Y4HD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: Checking for Heartbeat

2009-11-27T12:15:25Z

LuKreme wrote:
>
>Hmm.. the readme and internal docs where not that useful.
>
># Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create file.
># For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c"; FreeBSD doesn't accept "-p <dir>".
> ###############################################################################
>TMPDIR="-p /tmp"

I have changed the comment to

# Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create
file.
# For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c -d <dir>"; FreeBSD requires "-t
<dir>".

Hopefully, that will be more clear. I would prefer not to have this
setting at all, but there needs to be something because without the
'-c' option HPUX won't create the file, and none of the others accept
'-c'.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark@...> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: rejecting messages to non-members

2009-11-27T11:49:39Z

LuKreme wrote:
>
>Yep, but I've set it at least twice for this list and I still find it getting set back.

I don't know why that would happen.

>But that said, some Mailman lists have a setting that lets you set the Reply-To: on your posts so that when people reply, it goes ONLY to the list, as $DEITY intended.

Our recommendations are to not strip the poster's Reply-To: if any and
to not add any other Reply-To: addresses. This list is set that way so
you can add your own Reply-To: and it will be passed through.

List owners can set these as they see fit, but I don't see why anyone
would choose to strip the poster's Reply-To: if they weren't adding
one of their own.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark@...> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: Checking for Heartbeat

2009-11-27T11:33:29Z

LuKreme wrote:

>On 27-Nov-2009, at 08:56, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head%3A/contrib/>
>> where you can download mmdsr and README.mmdsr
>
>Hmm.. the readme and internal docs where not that useful.
>
># Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create file.
># For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c"; FreeBSD doesn't accept "-p <dir>".
> ###############################################################################
>TMPDIR="-p /tmp"
>
>OK, since freeBSD doesn't like the -p option, what should this be? setting it to just "/tmp" generates an error. Setting it to -d /tmp/mmdsr also generates the same basic errors. Yes, the script is running as root.

The equivalent option in FreeBSD is "-t /tmp", at least according to
<http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=1&topic=mktemp>.

>(I know it has a sleep 60 in it because it's intended to run at 23:59, but that does seem an odd way to go to me).

It runs at 23:59 and sleeps for a minute after getting the current date
to use in filtering the logs. It sleeps to get the last minute in the
logs, and it gets the date before midnite so it doesn't have to figure
out the correct date for 'yesterday'. Granted, it could just run at
midnight and use the "-d yesterday" option for the date command, but
a) I didn't write that part; b) I don't know if "-d yesterday" or
equivalent is universally available in implementations of date, and c)
the impact of a change at this point on existing users makes such a
change problematic.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark@...> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: rejecting messages to non-members

2009-11-27T10:57:45Z

On 27-Nov-2009, at 11:37, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> LuKreme wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather get two replies than what some lists do which is not send me a copy if they see I 'already got one' in the Cc or To headers. I REALLY hate that.
>>
>> This list, for example.
>
>
> It's a user option (at least on Mailman lists) -
>
> Avoid duplicate copies of messages?

Yep, but I've set it at least twice for this list and I still find it getting set back. But that said, some Mailman lists have a setting that lets you set the Reply-To: on your posts so that when people reply, it goes ONLY to the list, as $DEITY intended.

--
Love seekest only self to please, To bind another to its delight
Joys in another's loss of ease And builds a hell in Heaven's
despite!

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Re: Checking for Heartbeat

2009-11-27T10:55:08Z

On 27-Nov-2009, at 08:56, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head%3A/contrib/>
> where you can download mmdsr and README.mmdsr

Hmm.. the readme and internal docs where not that useful.

# Arguments for your mktemp command to specify directory and/or create file.
# For example, HPUX mktemp requires "-c"; FreeBSD doesn't accept "-p <dir>".
###############################################################################
TMPDIR="-p /tmp"

OK, since freeBSD doesn't like the -p option, what should this be? setting it to just "/tmp" generates an error. Setting it to -d /tmp/mmdsr also generates the same basic errors. Yes, the script is running as root.

# mmdsr
mktemp: mkstemp failed on /tmp: File exists
mktemp: mkstemp failed on /tmp: File exists
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory
/usr/local/bin/mmdsr: cannot create : No such file or directory

The script then sits there for far long than a minute seemingly doing nothing. (I know it has a sleep 60 in it because it's intended to run at 23:59, but that does seem an odd way to go to me). Still, wanting to see the output it generated I ran it, but it seems to just stall.

--
"Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be
dead soldiers" ~Carlin

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From forum: Mailman - Users

Nabble - Mailman

Re: Mailman and Submission port

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

Re: MM 3 alpha 4: UnicodeWarning

Re: Mailman and Submission port

Re: Mailman and Submission port

MM 3 alpha 4: UnicodeWarning

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

Re: question about mailman issues i am experiencing

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

Mailman 3.0 alpha 4

Mailman 3.0 alpha 4

Mailman 3.0 alpha 4

Re: Mailman and Submission port

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

Re: Mailman and Submission port

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

question about mailman issues i am experiencing

Re: Mailman and Submission port

Mailman and Submission port

Re: Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

Mailman and Submission port

Re: Mailman 3 and LMTP

Re: Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

Mailman 3 and LMTP

Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

Re: Email commands for list moderator

Re: HTML messages not passed, content filtering settings ignored

Re: HTML messages not passed, content filtering settings ignored

Email commands for list moderator

Re: Checking for Heartbeat

Re: rejecting messages *to* non-members

Re: Checking for Heartbeat

Re: rejecting messages *to* non-members

Re: Checking for Heartbeat

Re: rejecting messages to non-members

Re: rejecting messages to non-members