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More domain name confusion?
by Philipp K. Janert
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The domain www.gnuplot.vt.edu has been coming up among the top 10 links on Google for "gnuplot" for a few weeks now. Nothing there yet. Best, Ph. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Allin Cottrell
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On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Philipp K. Janert wrote: > The domain > www.gnuplot.vt.edu > has been coming up among the top 10 links > on Google for "gnuplot" for a few weeks now. > > Nothing there yet. No, and let's hope it goes away altogether Real Soon Now. Allin Cottrell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Ethan Merritt
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On Sunday 20 September 2009, Clark Gaylord wrote:
> Sorry -- didn't realize that was getting hits. > That site is mirroring but I just don't have the virtual host set up. > > www.gnuplot.info should *always* be the canonical site! In which case... Any idea why the new, not even set up yet site has such a high Google page rank? Ethan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Philipp K. Janert
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>
> www.gnuplot.info should *always* be the canonical site! Sorry, but I'd like to challenge that. The master site is gnuplot.sourceforge.net. At least, that's where the master copies of all files live. It's also the site that the developer team has access to. I think it's great that somebody (Clark) has registered a more informative domain name (and pays for it). (Thanks, Clark!) But I don't understand why that domain name is not either an alias or a redirect to the SourceForge site. I think it is highly confusing that the site that *appears* to be canonical (at least by its domain name) is in fact a merely *mirror*. (And it is confusing and not widely understood even by the developer team - as demonstrated by the discussion a few weeks ago on this mailing list.) It's great that there is a mirror - in case SourceForge is down or not accessible. But it should be made clearer that it is exactly that: a mirror. I am also uncomfortable with the idea of hosting the "canonical" site for a community project like gnuplot on a server that only the owner has access to. (Single point of failure, all that.) What is wrong with having the "canonical" site be the SourceForge site? (I heard the argument that Virginia Tech has better internet connectivity than SourceForge, but I find that hard to believe. And even if true, SourceForge's infrastructure seems at least sufficient.) I'd vote for making gnuplot.sourceforge.net be the "canonical" site (and have gnuplot.info point to it), and making Clark's site at VT the "official" mirror. Best, Ph. > > --ckg > > > -- > Clark Gaylord > cgaylord@... > ... thumbed on my treo ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Allin Cottrell <cottrell@...> > Date: Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 8:03 pm > Subject: Re: More domain name confusion? > To: "Philipp K. Janert" <janert@...> > CC: gnuplot-beta@... > > >On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Philipp K. Janert wrote: > >> The domain > > > > www.gnuplot.vt.edu > > has been coming up among the top 10 links > > on Google for "gnuplot" for a few weeks now. > > > >> Nothing there yet. > > > >No, and let's hope it goes away altogether Real Soon Now. > > > >Allin Cottrell > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, > > CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart > > your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and > > stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > >_______________________________________________ > >gnuplot-beta mailing list > >gnuplot-beta@... > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Clark Gaylord-2
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Ethan Merritt wrote:
> On Sunday 20 September 2009, Clark Gaylord wrote: > >> Sorry -- didn't realize that was getting hits. >> That site is mirroring but I just don't have the virtual host set up. >> >> www.gnuplot.info should *always* be the canonical site! >> > > In which case... Any idea why the new, not even set up yet site > has such a high Google page rank? > Apparently the ancient www.gnuplot.vt.edu has some links out there. Sorry for not getting that virtual host configured earlier. Usually the www.gnuplot.vt.edu site is exactly the same as www.gnuplot.info, but, as mentioned earlier, I am currently moving the canonical site. --ckg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Clark Gaylord-2
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This was going to be just a quick note about our
"pre-production/production" web content design, but I started rummaging around through the archives and thought I'd go ahead a document the history for reference. Sorry for the lack of brevity. --ckg The design for managing the web content is that the sourceforge site is considered "pre-production" which then gets to the "production" gnuplot.info site once/day. It was originally intended that the sourceforge project would be the primary site for gnuplot *development* (which I established 1 February 2000; HBB joined in April 2000). The idea was that we could work with the web site effectively on a "pre-prod" server (now this is sourceforge), which then is occasionally in a state of flux, and automatically this will get rolled into production once per day. There is a very small risk that the state of flux would happen at the moment of sync, and this is obviously a pretty cheesy design. However, it was a very easy way to give us a "poor man's CMS", and the content has never had a "must be updated in fifteen minutes because CNN is running a story that is going to give us $4M RIGHT NOW!" nature. More importantly, the only thing we must do to perform a major rewrite of the web site is to break the mirror while we work on it (or if we wanted to have a real "development" web site distinct from the public facing web site). I think we may have had www.gnuplot.vt.edu canonical in February 1999 (ftp was started in 1998), prior to the gnuplot.org domain. I picked up the content from Alex Woo in late 1998, and I think Lars ran the old cmpc1 ftp server. That was about when we started having this staging/production environment. I think Lars Hecking had the primary content shortly after we set up the gnuplot.org domain, and he operated until 2004 when we migrated web content to sourceforge. John Turner had the gnuplot.org domain between 1998 and 2001, when we lost it and I registered gnuplot.info, both of which have always been hosted at Virginia Tech. gnuplot.info came on the air 3 Jan 2002. In 2000, I created the sourceforge space to support gnuplot *development* (that's why the project is named "gnuplot development") and give us a CVS home. Mailing lists were migrated from Dartmouth to sourceforge in 2003. We started using sourceforge as our pre-production web site in late 2004, when Lars had to move off of his server at ucc.ie. The suitability of the various options is arguable. Sourceforge tends to have a more "high availability" server environment (we "think" ....) Though there have certainly been plenty of issues with sourceforge over the last decade, this is much more true of a single server that some guy (i.e. me) takes care of (actually, the server has the support from a "team" of sysadmins, currently at the Virginia Tech Transportation Institute http://www.vtti.vt.edu/ ). VT is better connected to the research and international communities due to its involvement in Internet2 and National Lambda Rail, but this is from a strictly "performance" perspective not necessarily based on path redundancy, etc. So, from that perspective you could argue either way. It really is about having the ability for developers to work on the site without having to worry so much about breaking it temporarily. Of course if we were to lose the VT hosting option someday I would not mind using sourceforge if necessary, though I would probably first look for something to replicate the existing design. Anyway, I hope that explains why we have it set up this way and it makes sense. --ckg Philipp K. Janert wrote: >> www.gnuplot.info should *always* be the canonical site! >> > > Sorry, but I'd like to challenge that. > > The master site is gnuplot.sourceforge.net. > > At least, that's where the master copies of > all files live. It's also the site that the developer > team has access to. > > I think it's great that somebody (Clark) has > registered a more informative domain name > (and pays for it). (Thanks, Clark!) But I don't > understand why that domain name is not either > an alias or a redirect to the SourceForge site. > > I think it is highly confusing that the site that > *appears* to be canonical (at least by its > domain name) is in fact a merely *mirror*. > (And it is confusing and not widely understood > even by the developer team - as demonstrated > by the discussion a few weeks ago on this mailing > list.) > > It's great that there is a mirror - in case > SourceForge is down or not accessible. > But it should be made clearer that it is > exactly that: a mirror. > > I am also uncomfortable with the idea of > hosting the "canonical" site for a community > project like gnuplot on a server that only the > owner has access to. (Single point of failure, > all that.) > > What is wrong with having the "canonical" > site be the SourceForge site? (I heard the > argument that Virginia Tech has better > internet connectivity than SourceForge, > but I find that hard to believe. And even if > true, SourceForge's infrastructure seems > at least sufficient.) > > I'd vote for making gnuplot.sourceforge.net > be the "canonical" site (and have gnuplot.info > point to it), and making Clark's site at VT the > "official" mirror. > > Best, > > Ph. > > > >> --ckg >> >> >> -- >> Clark Gaylord >> cgaylord@... >> ... thumbed on my treo ... >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Allin Cottrell <cottrell@...> >> Date: Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 8:03 pm >> Subject: Re: More domain name confusion? >> To: "Philipp K. Janert" <janert@...> >> CC: gnuplot-beta@... >> >> >>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Philipp K. Janert wrote: >>> >>>> The domain >>>> >>> www.gnuplot.vt.edu >>> has been coming up among the top 10 links >>> on Google for "gnuplot" for a few weeks now. >>> >>> >>>> Nothing there yet. >>>> >>> No, and let's hope it goes away altogether Real Soon Now. >>> >>> Allin Cottrell >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, >>> CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart >>> your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and >>> stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnuplot-beta mailing list >>> gnuplot-beta@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta >>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Philipp K. Janert
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Clark - thanks for the write-up. This is great. I think others on the mailing list and the dev team will also appreciate to have this review. (I'll also put it on sourceforge as a Readme file for the web setup.) That being said: needs and demands change, and it might make sense to review the current setup occasionally. It seems to me that much of the current setup (I am trying to avoid the word "architecture") is a relic of the days when all the open-source infrastructure (like SourceForge itself) that we have today did not exist. Here are my issues with the current situation. - It is opaque. A few months ago, people on the core dev team could not describe the website situation to me. - It is potentially confusing to users. At the very least, it should be clearly stated (for instance in the FAQ) that the gnuplot.info site is a mirror of the sourceforge site. - The sourceforge site is accessible to the dev team, but the domain name and the mirror site are only accessible to Clark. What happens if something happens to him, or if he is busy or unreachable? Lastly, I am not sure that we need the distinct staging/production environments. We seem to be updating the website very rarely. Additionally, these days everybody has access to a webserver of their own which can be used for staging, testing, development. (This is one of the ways in which today's situation is very different from the way things were ten years ago.) Given that today there is SourceForge, the need to host community projects on individual's accounts seems less pressing. As I said before, it would make sense to me to have gnuplot.sourceforge.net be the "canonical" site (and have gnuplot.info point to it), and to make Clark's site at VT a clearly designated mirror. Votes? Opinions? Discussion? Best, Ph. On Monday 21 September 2009 03:29:34 pm Clark Gaylord wrote: > This was going to be just a quick note about our > "pre-production/production" web content design, but I started rummaging > around through the archives and thought I'd go ahead a document the > history for reference. Sorry for the lack of brevity. --ckg > > The design for managing the web content is that the sourceforge site is > considered "pre-production" which then gets to the "production" > gnuplot.info site once/day. It was originally intended that the > sourceforge project would be the primary site for gnuplot *development* > (which I established 1 February 2000; HBB joined in April 2000). The > idea was that we could work with the web site effectively on a > "pre-prod" server (now this is sourceforge), which then is occasionally > in a state of flux, and automatically this will get rolled into > production once per day. There is a very small risk that the state of > flux would happen at the moment of sync, and this is obviously a pretty > cheesy design. However, it was a very easy way to give us a "poor man's > CMS", and the content has never had a "must be updated in fifteen > minutes because CNN is running a story that is going to give us $4M > RIGHT NOW!" nature. More importantly, the only thing we must do to > perform a major rewrite of the web site is to break the mirror while we > work on it (or if we wanted to have a real "development" web site > distinct from the public facing web site). > > I think we may have had www.gnuplot.vt.edu canonical in February 1999 > (ftp was started in 1998), prior to the gnuplot.org domain. I picked up > the content from Alex Woo in late 1998, and I think Lars ran the old > cmpc1 ftp server. That was about when we started having this > staging/production environment. I think Lars Hecking had the primary > content shortly after we set up the gnuplot.org domain, and he operated > until 2004 when we migrated web content to sourceforge. John Turner had > the gnuplot.org domain between 1998 and 2001, when we lost it and I > registered gnuplot.info, both of which have always been hosted at > Virginia Tech. gnuplot.info came on the air 3 Jan 2002. In 2000, I > created the sourceforge space to support gnuplot *development* (that's > why the project is named "gnuplot development") and give us a CVS home. > Mailing lists were migrated from Dartmouth to sourceforge in 2003. We > started using sourceforge as our pre-production web site in late 2004, > when Lars had to move off of his server at ucc.ie. > > The suitability of the various options is arguable. Sourceforge tends to > have a more "high availability" server environment (we "think" ....) > Though there have certainly been plenty of issues with sourceforge over > the last decade, this is much more true of a single server that some guy > (i.e. me) takes care of (actually, the server has the support from a > "team" of sysadmins, currently at the Virginia Tech Transportation > Institute http://www.vtti.vt.edu/ ). VT is better connected to the > research and international communities due to its involvement in > Internet2 and National Lambda Rail, but this is from a strictly > "performance" perspective not necessarily based on path redundancy, etc. > So, from that perspective you could argue either way. It really is about > having the ability for developers to work on the site without having to > worry so much about breaking it temporarily. > > Of course if we were to lose the VT hosting option someday I would not > mind using sourceforge if necessary, though I would probably first look > for something to replicate the existing design. > > Anyway, I hope that explains why we have it set up this way and it makes > sense. > > --ckg > > Philipp K. Janert wrote: > >> www.gnuplot.info should *always* be the canonical site! > > > > Sorry, but I'd like to challenge that. > > > > The master site is gnuplot.sourceforge.net. > > > > At least, that's where the master copies of > > all files live. It's also the site that the developer > > team has access to. > > > > I think it's great that somebody (Clark) has > > registered a more informative domain name > > (and pays for it). (Thanks, Clark!) But I don't > > understand why that domain name is not either > > an alias or a redirect to the SourceForge site. > > > > I think it is highly confusing that the site that > > *appears* to be canonical (at least by its > > domain name) is in fact a merely *mirror*. > > (And it is confusing and not widely understood > > even by the developer team - as demonstrated > > by the discussion a few weeks ago on this mailing > > list.) > > > > It's great that there is a mirror - in case > > SourceForge is down or not accessible. > > But it should be made clearer that it is > > exactly that: a mirror. > > > > I am also uncomfortable with the idea of > > hosting the "canonical" site for a community > > project like gnuplot on a server that only the > > owner has access to. (Single point of failure, > > all that.) > > > > What is wrong with having the "canonical" > > site be the SourceForge site? (I heard the > > argument that Virginia Tech has better > > internet connectivity than SourceForge, > > but I find that hard to believe. And even if > > true, SourceForge's infrastructure seems > > at least sufficient.) > > > > I'd vote for making gnuplot.sourceforge.net > > be the "canonical" site (and have gnuplot.info > > point to it), and making Clark's site at VT the > > "official" mirror. > > > > Best, > > > > Ph. > > > >> --ckg > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Clark Gaylord > >> cgaylord@... > >> ... thumbed on my treo ... > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Allin Cottrell <cottrell@...> > >> Date: Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 8:03 pm > >> Subject: Re: More domain name confusion? > >> To: "Philipp K. Janert" <janert@...> > >> CC: gnuplot-beta@... > >> > >>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Philipp K. Janert wrote: > >>>> The domain > >>> > >>> www.gnuplot.vt.edu > >>> has been coming up among the top 10 links > >>> on Google for "gnuplot" for a few weeks now. > >>> > >>>> Nothing there yet. > >>> > >>> No, and let's hope it goes away altogether Real Soon Now. > >>> > >>> Allin Cottrell > >>> > >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>--- ---- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in > >>> SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. > >>> Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications > >>> to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, > >>> 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> gnuplot-beta mailing list > >>> gnuplot-beta@... > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Ethan Merritt
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On Monday 21 September 2009, Philipp K. Janert wrote:
> > Clark - thanks for the write-up. This is great. > I think others on the mailing list and the dev > team will also appreciate to have this review. > (I'll also put it on sourceforge as a Readme > file for the web setup.) Sounds reasonable. > Lastly, I am not sure that we need the distinct > staging/production environments. We seem to > be updating the website very rarely. Additionally, > these days everybody has access to a webserver > of their own which can be used for staging, testing, > development. (This is one of the ways in which > today's situation is very different from the way > things were ten years ago.) > > Given that today there is SourceForge, the need > to host community projects on individual's accounts > seems less pressing. As I said before, it would make > sense to me to have gnuplot.sourceforge.net be the > "canonical" site (and have gnuplot.info point to it), > and to make Clark's site at VT a clearly designated > mirror. > > Votes? Opinions? Discussion? The only times I can recall it being an issue is during the first 48 hours or so after a release. Given that this happens only once or twice a year, it just doesn't seem like that big a deal. When putting out a release, I've been working off a check-list: update versioning, build tarballs, put the files on SourceForge, send notification to the mailing list, etc. If that last step were delayed by 48 hours, chances are no one would notice or complain about the propagation delay. I'm off for a bit of vacation these next two weeks. On return, I'll check up to see how the discussion went. Ethan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Plotter-2
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Clark Gaylord wrote:
> This was going to be just a quick note about our > "pre-production/production" web content design, but I started rummaging > around through the archives and thought I'd go ahead a document the > history for reference. Sorry for the lack of brevity. --ckg > > The design for managing the web content is that the sourceforge site is > considered "pre-production" which then gets to the "production" > gnuplot.info site once/day. It was originally intended that the > sourceforge project would be the primary site for gnuplot *development* > (which I established 1 February 2000; HBB joined in April 2000). The > idea was that we could work with the web site effectively on a > "pre-prod" server (now this is sourceforge), which then is occasionally > in a state of flux, and automatically this will get rolled into > production once per day. There is a very small risk that the state of > flux would happen at the moment of sync, and this is obviously a pretty > cheesy design. However, it was a very easy way to give us a "poor man's > CMS", and the content has never had a "must be updated in fifteen > minutes because CNN is running a story that is going to give us $4M > RIGHT NOW!" nature. More importantly, the only thing we must do to > perform a major rewrite of the web site is to break the mirror while we > work on it (or if we wanted to have a real "development" web site > distinct from the public facing web site). > > I think we may have had www.gnuplot.vt.edu canonical in February 1999 > (ftp was started in 1998), prior to the gnuplot.org domain. I picked up > the content from Alex Woo in late 1998, and I think Lars ran the old > cmpc1 ftp server. That was about when we started having this > staging/production environment. I think Lars Hecking had the primary > content shortly after we set up the gnuplot.org domain, and he operated > until 2004 when we migrated web content to sourceforge. John Turner had > the gnuplot.org domain between 1998 and 2001, when we lost it and I > registered gnuplot.info, both of which have always been hosted at > Virginia Tech. gnuplot.info came on the air 3 Jan 2002. In 2000, I > created the sourceforge space to support gnuplot *development* (that's > why the project is named "gnuplot development") and give us a CVS home. > Mailing lists were migrated from Dartmouth to sourceforge in 2003. We > started using sourceforge as our pre-production web site in late 2004, > when Lars had to move off of his server at ucc.ie. > > The suitability of the various options is arguable. Sourceforge tends to > have a more "high availability" server environment (we "think" ....) > Though there have certainly been plenty of issues with sourceforge over > the last decade, this is much more true of a single server that some guy > (i.e. me) takes care of (actually, the server has the support from a > "team" of sysadmins, currently at the Virginia Tech Transportation > Institute http://www.vtti.vt.edu/ ). VT is better connected to the > research and international communities due to its involvement in > Internet2 and National Lambda Rail, but this is from a strictly > "performance" perspective not necessarily based on path redundancy, etc. > So, from that perspective you could argue either way. It really is about > having the ability for developers to work on the site without having to > worry so much about breaking it temporarily. > > Of course if we were to lose the VT hosting option someday I would not > mind using sourceforge if necessary, though I would probably first look > for something to replicate the existing design. > > Anyway, I hope that explains why we have it set up this way and it makes > sense. > > --ckg > Perhaps due to longevity as a gnuplot site or general content across VT domain this mirror got a google PR of 7 the last time I looked. I've rarely seen a PR that high. That will have a strong bearing on the google results for any search relating to the content which could be a simple as someone looking for a plotting utility. That argument alone would seem to be a good reason for keeping it (and getting the content sorted before the G notices all the content it has cached no longer exists, returns 404 and decided to dump the PR7). Any site with a PR7 deserves respect . greetz. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Plotter-2
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plotter@... wrote:
> > Perhaps due to longevity as a gnuplot site or general content across VT > domain this mirror got a google PR of 7 the last time I looked. > > I've rarely seen a PR that high. > > That will have a strong bearing on the google results for any search > relating to the content which could be a simple as someone looking for a > plotting utility. > > That argument alone would seem to be a good reason for keeping it (and > getting the content sorted before the G notices all the content it has > cached no longer exists, returns 404 and decided to dump the PR7). > > Any site with a PR7 deserves respect . > > greetz. > He he. Too late. It's dropped to 20th today and google shows it's title as "It Works!" It still gets pr7 , so hopefully next time G bots it will get back up to date. Anyway, the site has some serious kudos with Google which is an asset. /regards/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Petr Mikulik
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> Given that today there is SourceForge, the need to host community projects
> on individual's accounts seems less pressing. As I said before, it would > make sense to me to have gnuplot.sourceforge.net be the "canonical" site > (and have gnuplot.info point to it), and to make Clark's site at VT a > clearly designated mirror. > > Votes? Opinions? Discussion? - I think www.gnuplot.info looks more "professional" than gnuplot.sf.net. - The following link http://www.gnuplot.info/demo (notice the missing trailing slash) goes to: http://azog.bioinformatics.vt.edu:49280/demo/ but not http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/demo - I think the VT site should have index.html with an immediate redirection to www.gnuplot.info. - It don't think the mirroring works correctly -- for example, http://www.gnuplot.info/download.html still announces 4.2.5 instead of 4.2.6: http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/download.html These problems are happening very often! - What are proposals following from this discussion? A. Should www.gnuplot.info be an immediate redirect to sf.net? Would www.gnuplot.info/demo/ still work correctly in that case? B. Could the mirroring of www.gnuplot.info be finally fixed so that it really works in 24 h intervals (or faster)? Would a move to another server in the world help? Any other possibility? --- PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Plotter-2
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Petr Mikulik wrote:
>> Given that today there is SourceForge, the need to host community projects >> on individual's accounts seems less pressing. As I said before, it would >> make sense to me to have gnuplot.sourceforge.net be the "canonical" site >> (and have gnuplot.info point to it), and to make Clark's site at VT a >> clearly designated mirror. >> >> Votes? Opinions? Discussion? > > - I think www.gnuplot.info looks more "professional" than gnuplot.sf.net. > > - The following link > http://www.gnuplot.info/demo > (notice the missing trailing slash) goes to: > http://azog.bioinformatics.vt.edu:49280/demo/ > but not > http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/demo > > - I think the VT site should have index.html with an immediate > redirection to www.gnuplot.info. That would blow out any advantage of having a well ranked site with google. Once it gets a whiff of the redirection it will probably remove .info from it's listing and only refer to the target. > > - It don't think the mirroring works correctly -- for example, > http://www.gnuplot.info/download.html > still announces 4.2.5 instead of 4.2.6: > http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/download.html > These problems are happening very often! That is presumably something that can easily be corrected. Mirroring is not a new idea. Clearly all efforts should be made to ensure an accurate mirroring. regards. > > - What are proposals following from this discussion? > A. Should www.gnuplot.info be an immediate redirect to sf.net? > Would www.gnuplot.info/demo/ still work correctly in that case? > > B. Could the mirroring of www.gnuplot.info be finally fixed so that it > really works in 24 h intervals (or faster)? > Would a move to another server in the world help? > > Any other possibility? > > --- > PM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > _______________________________________________ > gnuplot-beta mailing list > gnuplot-beta@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Philipp K. Janert
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I don't think that we need to worry too much about Google page rank - except maybe for vanity reasons. If somebody is searching for "gnuplot", this person will find either gnuplot.info or gnuplot.sf.net, among the top 10 entries, regardless. It's a VERY specialized search term. Best, Ph. On Tuesday 22 September 2009 07:39:01 am plotter@... wrote: > Petr Mikulik wrote: > >> Given that today there is SourceForge, the need to host community > >> projects on individual's accounts seems less pressing. As I said before, > >> it would make sense to me to have gnuplot.sourceforge.net be the > >> "canonical" site (and have gnuplot.info point to it), and to make > >> Clark's site at VT a clearly designated mirror. > >> > >> Votes? Opinions? Discussion? > > > > - I think www.gnuplot.info looks more "professional" than gnuplot.sf.net. > > > > - The following link > > http://www.gnuplot.info/demo > > (notice the missing trailing slash) goes to: > > http://azog.bioinformatics.vt.edu:49280/demo/ > > but not > > http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/demo > > > > - I think the VT site should have index.html with an immediate > > redirection to www.gnuplot.info. > > That would blow out any advantage of having a well ranked site with > google. Once it gets a whiff of the redirection it will probably remove > .info from it's listing and only refer to the target. > > > - It don't think the mirroring works correctly -- for example, > > http://www.gnuplot.info/download.html > > still announces 4.2.5 instead of 4.2.6: > > http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/download.html > > These problems are happening very often! > > That is presumably something that can easily be corrected. Mirroring is > not a new idea. > > Clearly all efforts should be made to ensure an accurate mirroring. > > regards. > > > - What are proposals following from this discussion? > > A. Should www.gnuplot.info be an immediate redirect to sf.net? > > Would www.gnuplot.info/demo/ still work correctly in that case? > > > > B. Could the mirroring of www.gnuplot.info be finally fixed so that it > > really works in 24 h intervals (or faster)? > > Would a move to another server in the world help? > > > > Any other possibility? > > > > --- > > PM > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >----- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, > > CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart > > your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and > > stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register > > now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > > _______________________________________________ > > gnuplot-beta mailing list > > gnuplot-beta@... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Petr Mikulik
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> > - I think the VT site should have index.html with an immediate
> > redirection to www.gnuplot.info. > > That would blow out any advantage of having a well ranked site with > google. Once it gets a whiff of the redirection it will probably remove > .info from it's listing and only refer to the target. I don't see any advantage of having "www.gnuplot.vt.edu" on top of google nowadays. It's no longer the primary site as it was 10 years ago. > > > > - It don't think the mirroring works correctly -- for example, > > http://www.gnuplot.info/download.html > > still announces 4.2.5 instead of 4.2.6: > > http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/download.html > > These problems are happening very often! > > That is presumably something that can easily be corrected. Mirroring is > not a new idea. It seems that it cannot be easily corrected -- these mirroring problems occur for several years. > Like others, I thank Clark Gaylord for his history of the gnuplot > domain issue, and more substantively, for all the work he has done > on behalf of gnuplot. I agree. Unfortunately, the mirroring does not work. Therefore: > > - What are proposals following from this discussion? > > A. Should www.gnuplot.info be an immediate redirect to sf.net? > > Would www.gnuplot.info/demo/ still work correctly in that case? > > > > B. Could the mirroring of www.gnuplot.info be finally fixed so that it > > really works in 24 h intervals (or faster)? > > Would a move to another server in the world help? It seems that "www.gnuplot.info" should not be a redirect to gnuplot.sf.net, but an independent site. Then there are two possibilities: A. gnuplot.sf.net stays the main editable site, the new gnuplot.info its mirror. B. new gnuplot.info sites is the main editable site, gnuplot.sf.net is its redict (I don't think it makes sense to have a mirror) C. let DNS of gnuplot.info point to gnuplot.sf.net (is this feasible?) Requirements: A. - many people have access to gnuplot.sf.net (organized by sf accounts), less people have account on new gnuplot.info - mirroring works reliably and fast (max 12 h delay or sync can be launched on demand by a special e-mail, touching a special file, or whatever the current technology allows) B. - many people have access to this account What are your votes? --- PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Allin Cottrell
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I have listened to this discussion on this point, and here's my take on it. As is see it, some people are thinking in terms of "what makes most logical sense" (with regard to domain names) while others are thinking along the lines of, "certain sites have high google rankings" (regardless of what makes logical sense?) and we should aim to capitalize on that. I certainly do not claim to have any privileged information on what makes for a high google ranking, but I do agree that "we" (advocates for gnuplot) want to "come up" on google near the top when people are searching (without necessarily ever having heard of gnuplot) for free/open-source graphing/plotting programs. So here's a very basic survey, as of 2009-09-24. (I'm assuming that if you don't come up in the first 2 pages of google hits for the search string the user has entered then you're more or less invisible, though of course some people are willing to persevere further than that.) <survey> (1) Google search: "free plotting program" www.gnuplot.info = #2 gnuplot sf page not on first 2 google pages (2) Google search: "open source plotting program" www.gnuplot.info = #3 gnuplot sf page not on first 2 google pages (3) Google search: "open-source plotting program" Same as (2) (4) Google search: "free graphing program" gnuplot (in any form) not on first 2 google pages (5) Google search: "open source graphing program" www.gnuplot.info = #2 on second google page gnuplot sf page not on first 2 google pages (5) Google search: "open-source graphing program" www.gnuplot.info = #3 on second google page gnuplot sf page not on first 2 google pages </survey> One could vary the search strings to taste, but it seems to me two main points emerge: 1. Clearly, www.gnuplot.info has much more google-recognition than gnuplot.sf.net. 2. Gnuplot (even in the form www.gnuplot.info) is not showing up as it "should" for some relevant google searches. What follows? (1) I would say, if we're interested in proselytizing (though, as we all know, it makes none of us any money!), we should amend the gnuplot home page (on whatever site[s] it subsists) to explicitly mention the facts that gnuplot is free (as in free beer, though not exactly in the Richard Stallman sense) and open source. And we should also include the term "graphing". (2) This is more speculative, but IMO google page rank is quite dynamic, not necessarily strongly bound by history. That is, I think that _if_ the gnuplot developers (and I don't count myself as one, I'm just an interested spectator) were to choose to make gnuplot.sf.net the canonical site, then the ranking would fairly quickly adjust to favour gnuplot.sf.net. Allin Cottrell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Allin Cottrell
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Here's one further thought, after which I'll shut up (at least for a while!). IF you think there's some validity in the analysis I have offered of the google ranking issue AND you're sympathetic to the points Philipp Janert has made (as I am) BUT you doubt how easy and quick it would be to substitute gnuplot.sf.net for www.gnuplot.info in the google rankings, THEN you might be willing to consider the option I mooted a few postings back, but which I'll now state a bit more explicitly: * Scrap the web page at gnuplot.sf.net; make this a redirect to www.gnuplot.info (so Ethan has only one website to maintain). * Aside from the "shop window" website, everything else is at sf.net; so, for example, any download links on the page at www.gnuplot.info would point to the appropriate place on sf.net. -- Allin Cottrell Department of Economics Wake Forest University ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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Re: More domain name confusion?
by Philipp K. Janert
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Thanks to Allin for pulling some information together. I think this is really useful. Some comments below (after a snip). [snip] > > 1. Clearly, www.gnuplot.info has much more google-recognition than > gnuplot.sf.net. > > 2. Gnuplot (even in the form www.gnuplot.info) is not showing up > as it "should" for some relevant google searches. > > What follows? > > (1) I would say, if we're interested in proselytizing (though, as > we all know, it makes none of us any money!), we should amend the > gnuplot home page (on whatever site[s] it subsists) to explicitly > mention the facts that gnuplot is free (as in free beer, though > not exactly in the Richard Stallman sense) and open source. And we > should also include the term "graphing". And: "data analysis" and "visualization" and ...? > > (2) This is more speculative, but IMO google page rank is quite > dynamic, not necessarily strongly bound by history. That is, I > think that _if_ the gnuplot developers (and I don't count myself > as one, I'm just an interested spectator) were to choose to make > gnuplot.sf.net the canonical site, then the ranking would fairly > quickly adjust to favour gnuplot.sf.net. I think this is true. One thing that seems to affect Google is the way a page changes. I have seen static pages drop from way on high to nowhere at all. On the other hand, I have noticed that pages that have changed tend to come up higher (and Google tends to pick up changes w/in a few days). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ gnuplot-beta mailing list gnuplot-beta@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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