Most pertinent on v11.4 converting question

[Mehboob Alam]

Fix it - upgrade to v11. Isnt that a nice answer?


Have you used the SL beta? It doesnt run on G5's.. that's a good indication that Rosetta may be on it's way out..
How many Rosetta applications are there out in the market place?

PS: I don't have the SL beta..
sincerely,
mehboob alam




Electricity is actually made up of extremely tiny particles called electrons,
that you cannot see with the naked eye unless you have been drinking.
- Dave Barry



----- Original Message ----
From: David Nasralla <dnasralla@...>
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 6:18:10 PM
Subject: Re: v11.4 real word experience

> Snow Leopard - not relevant in the marketplace.

Maybe not in your world.... Our president and key managers loooove
their Macs. And if the 2004 system doesn't work when they buy a new
machine for a new employee (or when I try an explain they have to buy
the "new" machine on Ebay because new macs won't work with anything
else but Snow Leopard), or when they upgrade themselves,  they'll look
at me and say "Fix it."

d

--
David Nasralla
Clean Air Engineering
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[frankieboy]

Yes, buy today! Because pretty soon you won't be able to buy that expansion
pack, or that new 4D Server for a new customer for your VM app.
Volume runtime licenses will be okay, OS issues notwithstanding.

But really, this periodic sunsetting by 4D is such a PITA. I can't afford to
inventory a bunch of 2004 licenses, and I cannot afford v11 either. I am
SOL! Whine complete.

Regards,
Frank Martin
Author, FUNDimensions Fundraising Software
Apple Certified Help Desk Specialist


On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Mehboob Alam <media4d@...> wrote:

>
> > 4D 2004 is in sunset phase now, so I wouldn't recommand that anyone
> actually upgrade to it from 4D2003 instead of waiting for v11. By the time
> you expect v11 to be stable, 2004 will be gone and v12 will be breathing
> down our throats.
>
>
> I don't understand this part - v2004 is not suddenly going to stop working,
> is it. Is there a "kill-switch" built-in?
>
> You can buy v2004 today and sit on it.
> sincerely,
> mehboob alam
>
>
>
>
> Electricity is actually made up of extremely tiny particles called
> electrons, that you cannot see with the naked eye unless you have been
> drinking. - Dave Barry
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: psmith <psmith@...>
> To: Steve Makohin <SteveMakohin@...>; 4D iNug Technical <
> 4d_tech@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 1:16:34 PM
> Subject: Re: v11.4 real word experience
>
> Steve,
>
> Your "equally true/valid perspectives"  are only valid if you're not trying
> to use v11 in the real world. However, the title of this thread is v11.4
> real world experience. People want to know if it works now, not whether it
> may work in a year.
>
> > Another, equally true perspective, is that 4D 2004.8 is a mature product
> whose remaining issues are well documented and well understood. This may be
> a viable and easily adoptable interim solution for you until v11 has been
> given more time to reach the level of maturity that you need to feel
> comfortable.
>
> 4D 2004 is in sunset phase now, so I wouldn't recommand that anyone
> actually upgrade to it from 4D2003 instead of waiting for v11. By the time
> you expect v11 to be stable, 2004 will be gone and v12 will be breathing
> down our throats.
>
> > Another equally valid perspective is although some people are having some
> serious issues with v11, so far, they haven't affected us in a meaningful
> way, just because our product is different than theirs. We are building a
> system in 4D v11 that is about a year away from production. We know 4D folks
> are fixing bugs on a priority basis (most critical first), as fast as they
> can, so the 4D that we will use in 9 months will be much more robust than
> the current one. In other words, today is today -- It is not for ever.
>
>
> It's not so much that your product is different from ours. Simply, you're
> not trying to actually run it at customer sites and dealing with the
> problems. We developed and tested and everything looked fine. The only
> problems arose when our customers actually tried to use it in production.
> Other than that, no problem (;-///(
>
> I would certainly hope for a stable version of v11 which could actually be
> put into production, running at least a year or two before 2004 is killed
> and v12 comes along. Is it too much to ask, to have a product which actually
> works as advertised in the real world for a year or more without it being
> obsolete? We're coming up on two years since v11 was released. It's time it
> was stable, now. How many stable, real-world databases are actually running
> in production (not development and test) without major issues? There are
> probably many times more which are on the verge of going into production,
> "once v11 is stable".
>
>
> Paul Smith
>
> TSE International
>
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[Robert McKeever]

I have seen reference to a secondary Rosetta Installer. Also a  
reference that there were some 'problems' with programs running under  
it.

On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:12 PM, Mehboob Alam wrote:

>
> Fix it - upgrade to v11. Isnt that a nice answer?
>
>
> Have you used the SL beta? It doesnt run on G5's.. that's a good  
> indication that Rosetta may be on it's way out..
> How many Rosetta applications are there out in the market place?
>
> PS: I don't have the SL beta..
> sincerely,
> mehboob alam

_________________________________________
Bob McKeever                      http://www.mswl.com
McKeever's Software Wizardry
Maple Ridge, B.C.
bobmckeever@...



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[Alan Tilson-2]

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to add that we have a 17 user Windows v11.4hf2 that just sits
there and runs. Never crashes, never burps. We upgraded to hf2 due to a
couple of bugs in v11.4 that were bothersome, but didn't cause crashes. It
did take a while to work through the conversion, mostly due to the
differences in the way v11.4 works and handles things like nulls.

I look forward to the next release, but at this time in my opinion v11.4hf2
is one of the best all around versions of 4d we have ever had.

Sincerely,
Alan Tilson

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Robert McKeever <bobmckeever@...> wrote:

> I have seen reference to a secondary Rosetta Installer. Also a reference
> that there were some 'problems' with programs running under it.
>
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 6:12 PM, Mehboob Alam wrote:
>
>
>> Fix it - upgrade to v11. Isnt that a nice answer?
>>
>>
>> Have you used the SL beta? It doesnt run on G5's.. that's a good
>> indication that Rosetta may be on it's way out..
>> How many Rosetta applications are there out in the market place?
>>
>> PS: I don't have the SL beta..
>> sincerely,
>> mehboob alam
>>
>
> _________________________________________
> Bob McKeever                      http://www.mswl.com
> McKeever's Software Wizardry
> Maple Ridge, B.C.
> bobmckeever@...
>
>
>
>
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[Matthias Schmidt-6]

Am/On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:43:06 -0400 schrieb/wrote Matt Houghton-Thompson:

>On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Jeffrey Kain<jkain@...> wrote:
>> Matt, what kind of server do you have? What's the mix of clients (Mac vs.
>> Windows)?
>>
>> Jeff
>
>Server:
>Dell with 4 Intel Xeon X7460 2.66GHz processors (I guess these are 6
>cores each as Task Manager shows 24 CPUs)
>64 GB RAM
>Win2008 Enterprise 64bit SP1
>Don't remember the drive specs, but it is RAID 10
>
>4D Server:
>cache is 2400 MB, adaptive turned off
>SQL server is running and can have up to 4 ODBC clients connected
>UNICODE off

with this you shoot yourself in the foot ....
this makes only trouble and pulls performance down.
Imho turning Unicode off is only there to solve temporary conversion
issues (in the code) from an older database.
I guess you did made sure the conversion from the older version went ok.

>flush buffers at 15 minutes (we tried 1, 5, and 15)
>
>4D Remote (Client):
>- no Windows
>- most are running 10.5.7 on an Intel MacMini
>- there are some PowerPC machines too
>- there are a few clients still on OS 10.5.6 (like mine)
>- most have 2GB of RAM


cheers,
Matthias

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[aparajita]

> with this you shoot yourself in the foot ....
> this makes only trouble and pulls performance down.
> Imho turning Unicode off is only there to solve temporary conversion
> issues (in the code) from an older database.

I would have to agree. Internally I'm guessing that 4D is using  
Unicode exclusively. You gain nothing -- either in performance or  
stability -- by turning it off.

Regards,

    Aparajita
    www.aparajitaworld.com

    "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
    - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org

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[Matt Houghton-Thompson]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Matthias Schmidt<4D_info@...> wrote:
>>UNICODE off
>
> with this you shoot yourself in the foot ....
> this makes only trouble and pulls performance down.

What sort of trouble? Performance isn't an issue.

> Imho turning Unicode off is only there to solve temporary conversion
> issues (in the code) from an older database.
> I guess you did made sure the conversion from the older version went ok.

I was under the impression that this wasn't something you could just
click the button on and that we'd have to retest everything related to
string manipulation and probably fix some things.  Unless there are
issues that will be fixed by doing this, I'm not sure what the benefit
to us will be?

-Matt H-T.
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[Matt Houghton-Thompson]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Aparajita
Fishman<aparajita@...> wrote:
>
>> with this you shoot yourself in the foot ....
>> this makes only trouble and pulls performance down.
>> Imho turning Unicode off is only there to solve temporary conversion
>> issues (in the code) from an older database.
>
> I would have to agree. Internally I'm guessing that 4D is using Unicode

That is the impression I have gotten from 4D Inc.

> exclusively. You gain nothing -- either in performance or stability -- by
> turning it off.

Are you saying we gain stability by turning it on (well, turning off
the conversion to ascii if I understand how v11 works)? I understand
that 4D will be faster, although I'm skeptical that it will be fast
enough to be noticeable to users.

-Matt
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[Alan Chan]

Hi Arnold,

>I'm happy to say we successfully went live with our app on v11 this past
>Monday. This is a conversion from 2003.7 on windows 2000 server to v11 on
>windows server 2003. At the same time we eliminated all subtable
>functionality.

Did you replace the primary key field in the original table and foreign
key in v11 created tables with your own key? If not, do you use sequence
number to be primary key field. I heard that sequence number on the
original parent table messed up somehow during the conversion and require
manual code fix. Did you encounter such problem?
>
>It has been running solidly for 3 days now with 50 concurrent users, no
>data corruption (which was my main concern). The difference in speed is
>quite remarkable, although upgrading from a 2 core server with 1.5GB RAM
>to an 8 core with 32 GB must have made a difference as well :)
>
Multiple cores support is the major reason push us to v11:-)

Alan Chan

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[Arnold Cordewiner]

The primary key in the main table is a character field of length 9 and is basically an alphanumeric translation of the sequence number.

For the subrecords i wrote a small procedure in the 2003 structure that looped through every record in the main table and for each of those, loop through it's subrecords and export them to a textfile, with the PK from the main table record added.

After conversion to v11 I imported those textfiles into the former subtables, linked the FK from the subtables to the PKs in the main tables and deleted the "id_added_by_converter" fields. One caveat about this method though: the command GET FIELD PROPERTIES still "sees" those fields in v11.4. It returns a value of 5 for those (= "unsupported").

Arnold

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: 4d_tech-bounces@... [mailto:4d_tech-bounces@...] Namens Alan Chan
Verzonden: donderdag 2 juli 2009 19:42
Aan: 4D iNug Technical
Onderwerp: Re: v11.4 real word experience

Hi Arnold,

>I'm happy to say we successfully went live with our app on v11 this past
>Monday. This is a conversion from 2003.7 on windows 2000 server to v11 on
>windows server 2003. At the same time we eliminated all subtable
>functionality.

Did you replace the primary key field in the original table and foreign
key in v11 created tables with your own key? If not, do you use sequence
number to be primary key field. I heard that sequence number on the
original parent table messed up somehow during the conversion and require
manual code fix. Did you encounter such problem?
>
>It has been running solidly for 3 days now with 50 concurrent users, no
>data corruption (which was my main concern). The difference in speed is
>quite remarkable, although upgrading from a 2 core server with 1.5GB RAM
>to an 8 core with 32 GB must have made a difference as well :)
>
Multiple cores support is the major reason push us to v11:-)

Alan Chan

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