Moulin Rouge and featured artists

[gnu_andrew]

Hi all,

I've just been looking at the two Moulin Rouge soundtrack releases:

http://musicbrainz.org/release/9fce131b-381e-4588-844d-d113db2e3d76.html
http://musicbrainz.org/album/4088668e-a85f-4891-823e-f8badecf514c.html

Without going into the mess that seems to have been created by
duplicating the discs (they were released separately, and then as a
package, which seems to have caused some confusion), there seems to be
some strangeness going on with the artist attributions as well.

On the releases themselves, there are no featured artists.  Tracks are
attributed to one or more performers, which gets a bit crazy in some
cases (Spectacular Spectacular on Moulin Rouge 2 has eight
collaborating artists).  When these releases were added, they seem to
have been arbitrarily attributed to whoever occurs first in the list
(Nicole Kidman in most cases) and the rest listed as featured artist.
Is there some guideline for doing this?  In a number of cases it is
clearly incorrect; 'Elephant Love Medley' and 'Come What May' are both
duets and shouldn't be attributed solely to Nicole Kidman (especially
on the latter, as Ewan McGregor is the dominant performer).

How should this be corrected? Should we create appropriate track
artists (this will result in some awful pseudo-artists)?  Or is there
a better solution?

Thanks,
--
Andrew :-)

Free Java Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)

Support Free Java!
Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
http://openjdk.java.net

PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA  7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8

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[Brian Schweitzer]

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've just been looking at the two Moulin Rouge soundtrack releases:

http://musicbrainz.org/release/9fce131b-381e-4588-844d-d113db2e3d76.html
http://musicbrainz.org/album/4088668e-a85f-4891-823e-f8badecf514c.html

Without going into the mess that seems to have been created by
duplicating the discs (they were released separately, and then as a
package, which seems to have caused some confusion), there seems to be
some strangeness going on with the artist attributions as well.

On the releases themselves, there are no featured artists.  Tracks are
attributed to one or more performers, which gets a bit crazy in some
cases (Spectacular Spectacular on Moulin Rouge 2 has eight
collaborating artists).  When these releases were added, they seem to
have been arbitrarily attributed to whoever occurs first in the list
(Nicole Kidman in most cases) and the rest listed as featured artist.
Is there some guideline for doing this?  In a number of cases it is
clearly incorrect; 'Elephant Love Medley' and 'Come What May' are both
duets and shouldn't be attributed solely to Nicole Kidman (especially
on the latter, as Ewan McGregor is the dominant performer).

How should this be corrected? Should we create appropriate track
artists (this will result in some awful pseudo-artists)?  Or is there
a better solution?

I wouldn't worry too much about trying to avoid creating such workaround artists, if indeed the situation supports it, given that NGS, with "multiple artists on the same track/release" support, is coming in the around 3 to 4 months. 

Brian

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[chabreyflint]

I'd prefer using http://musicbrainz.org/doc/SoundtrackStyle . Even if it is an inofficial and stalled guideline, this would make the mess a little less messy

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:55 AM, Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweitzer@...> wrote:

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've just been looking at the two Moulin Rouge soundtrack releases:

http://musicbrainz.org/release/9fce131b-381e-4588-844d-d113db2e3d76.html
http://musicbrainz.org/album/4088668e-a85f-4891-823e-f8badecf514c.html

Without going into the mess that seems to have been created by
duplicating the discs (they were released separately, and then as a
package, which seems to have caused some confusion), there seems to be
some strangeness going on with the artist attributions as well.

On the releases themselves, there are no featured artists.  Tracks are
attributed to one or more performers, which gets a bit crazy in some
cases (Spectacular Spectacular on Moulin Rouge 2 has eight
collaborating artists).  When these releases were added, they seem to
have been arbitrarily attributed to whoever occurs first in the list
(Nicole Kidman in most cases) and the rest listed as featured artist.
Is there some guideline for doing this?  In a number of cases it is
clearly incorrect; 'Elephant Love Medley' and 'Come What May' are both
duets and shouldn't be attributed solely to Nicole Kidman (especially
on the latter, as Ewan McGregor is the dominant performer).

How should this be corrected? Should we create appropriate track
artists (this will result in some awful pseudo-artists)?  Or is there
a better solution?

I wouldn't worry too much about trying to avoid creating such workaround artists, if indeed the situation supports it, given that NGS, with "multiple artists on the same track/release" support, is coming in the around 3 to 4 months. 

Brian

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[gnu_andrew]

2009/5/8 SwissChris <swisschris@...>:

> I'd prefer using http://musicbrainz.org/doc/SoundtrackStyle . Even if it is
> an inofficial and stalled guideline, this would make the mess a little less
> messy
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:55 AM, Brian Schweitzer
> <brian.brianschweitzer@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Andrew John Hughes
>> <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've just been looking at the two Moulin Rouge soundtrack releases:
>>>
>>> http://musicbrainz.org/release/9fce131b-381e-4588-844d-d113db2e3d76.html
>>> http://musicbrainz.org/album/4088668e-a85f-4891-823e-f8badecf514c.html
>>>
>>> Without going into the mess that seems to have been created by
>>> duplicating the discs (they were released separately, and then as a
>>> package, which seems to have caused some confusion), there seems to be
>>> some strangeness going on with the artist attributions as well.
>>>
>>> On the releases themselves, there are no featured artists.  Tracks are
>>> attributed to one or more performers, which gets a bit crazy in some
>>> cases (Spectacular Spectacular on Moulin Rouge 2 has eight
>>> collaborating artists).  When these releases were added, they seem to
>>> have been arbitrarily attributed to whoever occurs first in the list
>>> (Nicole Kidman in most cases) and the rest listed as featured artist.
>>> Is there some guideline for doing this?  In a number of cases it is
>>> clearly incorrect; 'Elephant Love Medley' and 'Come What May' are both
>>> duets and shouldn't be attributed solely to Nicole Kidman (especially
>>> on the latter, as Ewan McGregor is the dominant performer).
>>>
>>> How should this be corrected? Should we create appropriate track
>>> artists (this will result in some awful pseudo-artists)?  Or is there
>>> a better solution?
>>
>> I wouldn't worry too much about trying to avoid creating such workaround
>> artists, if indeed the situation supports it, given that NGS, with "multiple
>> artists on the same track/release" support, is coming in the around 3 to 4
>> months.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MusicBrainz-users mailing list
>> MusicBrainz-users@...
>> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-users mailing list
> MusicBrainz-users@...
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users
>

There are other versions of the soundtrack
(http://musicbrainz.org/release/5a3a2368-93a9-471a-8821-f87d478a8512.html)
which use more sensible attributions; seems I was unlucky enough to
get the bizarre one for my copy.  However, it does still seem to have
attributed featuring artists with little evidence.

Chris, I doubt using SoundtrackStyle would make any difference as most
tracks are not original to the soundtrack.  Most are covers of popular
songs (medleys of covers in some cases).  Attributing the tracks to
the composer would make things even worse in some cases; 'Elephant
Love Medley' is a medley of ten different popular love songs, with 19
composers in total according to the inlay. It would also make the
release on MB unrecognisable from the real release.

Brian, are there more details available of these upcoming changes? I
guess a mass of edits will follow! Presumably this will also make DJ
mixes and mashups easier to handle.
--
Andrew :-)

Free Java Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)

Support Free Java!
Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
http://openjdk.java.net

PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA  7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8

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[Brian Schweitzer]

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:

2009/5/8 SwissChris <swisschris@...>:

> I'd prefer using http://musicbrainz.org/doc/SoundtrackStyle . Even if it is
> an inofficial and stalled guideline, this would make the mess a little less
> messy
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:55 AM, Brian Schweitzer
> <brian.brianschweitzer@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Andrew John Hughes
>> <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've just been looking at the two Moulin Rouge soundtrack releases:
>>>
>>> http://musicbrainz.org/release/9fce131b-381e-4588-844d-d113db2e3d76.html
>>> http://musicbrainz.org/album/4088668e-a85f-4891-823e-f8badecf514c.html
>>>
>>> Without going into the mess that seems to have been created by
>>> duplicating the discs (they were released separately, and then as a
>>> package, which seems to have caused some confusion), there seems to be
>>> some strangeness going on with the artist attributions as well.
>>>
>>> On the releases themselves, there are no featured artists.  Tracks are
>>> attributed to one or more performers, which gets a bit crazy in some
>>> cases (Spectacular Spectacular on Moulin Rouge 2 has eight
>>> collaborating artists).  When these releases were added, they seem to
>>> have been arbitrarily attributed to whoever occurs first in the list
>>> (Nicole Kidman in most cases) and the rest listed as featured artist.
>>> Is there some guideline for doing this?  In a number of cases it is
>>> clearly incorrect; 'Elephant Love Medley' and 'Come What May' are both
>>> duets and shouldn't be attributed solely to Nicole Kidman (especially
>>> on the latter, as Ewan McGregor is the dominant performer).
>>>
>>> How should this be corrected? Should we create appropriate track
>>> artists (this will result in some awful pseudo-artists)?  Or is there
>>> a better solution?
>>
>> I wouldn't worry too much about trying to avoid creating such workaround
>> artists, if indeed the situation supports it, given that NGS, with "multiple
>> artists on the same track/release" support, is coming in the around 3 to 4
>> months.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MusicBrainz-users mailing list
>> MusicBrainz-users@...
>> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-users mailing list
> MusicBrainz-users@...
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users
>

There are other versions of the soundtrack
(http://musicbrainz.org/release/5a3a2368-93a9-471a-8821-f87d478a8512.html)
which use more sensible attributions; seems I was unlucky enough to
get the bizarre one for my copy.  However, it does still seem to have
attributed featuring artists with little evidence.

Chris, I doubt using SoundtrackStyle would make any difference as most
tracks are not original to the soundtrack.  Most are covers of popular
songs (medleys of covers in some cases).  Attributing the tracks to
the composer would make things even worse in some cases; 'Elephant
Love Medley' is a medley of ten different popular love songs, with 19
composers in total according to the inlay. It would also make the
release on MB unrecognisable from the real release.

Brian, are there more details available of these upcoming changes? I
guess a mass of edits will follow! Presumably this will also make DJ
mixes and mashups easier to handle.

--
Andrew :-)

Luks is the expert, but the short version is that we'll no longer have to have "workaround artists" - "John Foo & Jim Bar" will now link to "John Foo" & "Jim Bar", and not mean making a third workaround artist, simply to handle a collaboration involving multiple different artists.

Brian

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