Nabble - Mozilla - Internationalization

SOAPCall

2009-08-26T07:26:54Z

Hello
im dealing with a thunderbird add-on. this add-on can search or create
strings at server side.
im trying to use multibyte strings especially japanese. server side
only accepting UTF-8 encoding.
the problem is that when i create strings from addon i can search them
from add-on perfectly.
but when i create strings at server side i cannot search them from
addon.
add-on is using single SOAPCall for both searching and creating
process like this:

...
var sCall = new SOAPCall();
sCall.transportURI = wsdl_uri.substring(0,wsdl_uri.indexOf
("?"));
sCall.encode(0, method, "http://www.......", 0, null,
params.length, params);

var returnObject = sCall.invoke();
...

is this SOAPCall.encode() method support UTF-8 conversion or is the
parameter sent to server with its original encoding?

any idea?
thanks for any help
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Documenting supported encodings and the name matching

2009-08-20T00:05:57Z

An effort is underway to document (for subsequent standardization) what
encodings browsers support and what algorithm each browser uses for
matching encoding names. (Reportedly, Gecko doesn't use the UTS22
algorithm.)

It would be great if someone knowledgeable of what Gecko does could fill
the details in:
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Web_Encodings

--
Henri Sivonen
hsivonen@...
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
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NEED MONEY FAST READ THIS ARTICLE 75571

2009-04-28T08:25:33Z

NEED MONEY FAST? READ THIS ARTICLE

SPEND 5 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME AND YOULL SEE THIS REALLY WORKS AND BESIDES ITS LEGAL!!!

I was surfing by the groups (GOOGLE, YAHOO, ALTAVISTA, ETC.), when I saw an article saying something about earning money fast. Well -said to myself-, I have to see what kind of schematic can they show in internet. These article described the way of sending BY MAIL, 1 EURO OR AMERICAN DOLLAR TO JUST 6 PERSONS AND EARNING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN 4 WEEKS. Okay, the more I thought about this, the more excited I as getting. It seemed a scam, but I was curious, so I kept reading. After meditating it, I decided to give it a try. It is really worth just 6 euros, or 6 U.S. dollars and 6 postage stamps, I spent more buying lottery and I've never won. This is not a scam; is not indecent, is not illegal, and is 99% freerisk, it really works if you adhere to the instructions, you will receive extraordinary dividends.

I must also tell you that this system has fulfilled its natural cycle, in other words, has proven its effectiveness and excellent results. Also, this system does not require physical contact with people, nor requires a heavy duty or difficult and the best: you do not have to leave home except to collect their mail. This is a program that uses the electronic medium Global Internet platform, which ensures its operation in perfect shape. 100% OF THE TIME.

Thousands of people have used this way to get good capital and start their own business. Basically, it is possible through a chain that is lead to thousands of people and that will become a reality for you only with your cooperation. That's why I recommend you carefully follow EXACTLY THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THIS LETTER, saying once more that this is 100% safe and that you will not regret having read this article and putting it in practice ... SHARE AND RECEIVE MONEY FAST ... BY MAIL. THIS REALLY WORKS

INSTRUCTIONS

STEP 1.
· Get 6 sheets of white paper and write: "PLEASE ADD MY NAME TO YOUR LIST. Then, write your own name, address and e-mail. And as a nice thing also write in what position was every name of people when you sent your DOLLAR OR EURO (eg "You were in slot 3), so you can make it more complete.The goal is to make money and have a good time at the same time, all with good. will.
· Now bend the page where you have written the above around the 1 Euro coin or 1 U.S. dollar bill. Do not sent checks or other payments, only Euros or American Dollars.
· Put it all inside an envelope and send it to each one of the 6 persons listed, the idea of doubling the paper over the Euro is to ensure that it will arrive at its destination so that is an important thing. Otherwise the people who works in the mail could detect that there is money inside and they could get the thousands of incoming envelopes, so it is recommended to wrap everything, additionally, in a charcoal paper so noone could see through the envelope.
· What we're doing is creating a service and as such, it is COMPLETELY LEGAL. From now on, you are not sending a EURO or one dollar to any person without any grounds, you are paying An EURO or DOLLAR for a legitimate service. Then you must send the 6 envelopes to following addresses:

1) Mario Jose Cardozo Matute
Sector OPS El Picacho Calle Venezuela,
Urb. Trebol Country Edf. Altamira piso PB Apto C.
Edo. Miranda Mpio. Los Salias, San Antonio de los Altos
C.P. 1173, Venezuela.

2) Marcos Gonzalo Lopez
San Luis 312 B 9 de Julio
Palpala, Jujuy, Argentina C.P.4612

3) Jorge Luis Munoz Garcia
Bernardo Alcedo 197 Dpto. 403
Santa Cruz Miraflores Lima, Peru C.P. Lima 18

4) Edgar Jorge Nava Arambula
Carranza #500 zona centro
Villa Union, Poanas Durango, Mexico
C.P. 34803

5) Gildardo J. Villarreal
709 Concord St.
Aurora, Il. 60505 USA

6) José L. Salgado
Av. De Las Palmeras N46-384 y Madroños
Provincia: Pichincha
Quito - Ecuador

STEP 2.

Listen carefully, this is the way how are you going to receive money by mail. Look at the list of the six people, clear the name # 1 in the list above, and add yours at the end of it, so the # 2 becomes # 1 and the # 3 becomes # 2, the # 4 becomes # 3 and the # 5 becomes 4 and so on. So you are now the number 6, include your name, address, postal code, city, state and country.

STEP 3.

Change everything you think is useful on this article, but try to keep as close as possible to the original. Now put your article at least 200 newsgroups, forums, classified or free ads, and publicate it (To reach them, just put into any search engine these terms: newsgroups, discussion forums, classified ads or free guestbooks, and thousands of pages will appear). You only need 200, but the more numbers you get, the more you will be sent to you.

Here are some Indications of how to break into Newsgroups: HOW TO MANAGE NEWSGROUPS: First, you dont need to write again all this letter to make it yours. Just put the mouse or mouse cursor at the beginning of this letter and select downwards so all the text will be "shady". Then, press CTRL+C. This way it remains in the memory of your computer. Then open an application preferably NOTEPAD Wordpad or Word. Then, once opened any of these Applications place your cursor at the beginning of a blank sheet of paper and Pressing CTRL+V, so you'll have this letter and you can add your name and address in the # 6 by following the instructions above. At Last, save this letter with your changes into a new file in the application. THATS ALL. All you have to do now is get in different newsgroups, forums, classified or free ads, and so on. and publicate it.

REMEMBER: DO NOT forget to publish the entire notice or letter with your name on the position 6, disappearing the one which has the number 1; when you acquire practice, itll only take you about 30 seconds per newsgroup

It is further recommended that when publishing the description of this article to give it a "trapping name", like: "NEED MONEY FAST? READ THIS ARTICLE" or "NEED MONEY TO PAY YOUR DEBTS? "," DOWNLOAD THIS FILE AND READ HOW YOU CAN RECEIVE MONEY BY MAIL "and so on. And do not name it: "WIN MILLION IN 1 WEEK",because nobody will take you seriously.

READY! You're getting money from around the world, from places you dont even know in a few days. MAKE SURE ALL ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT ** Now the WHY of all this: from 200 notices sent, lets say you only get 5 replies (a very low example).
If only 6 people respond, this makes:
In the # 6: 6 Euros (U.S. $) In # 5: 36 Euros (U.S. $) In the # 4: 216 Euros (U.S. $) In # 3: 1296 Euros (U.S. $) In the # 2: 7776 Euros (U.S. $) In # 1: 46,656 Euros (U.S. $)

LAST STEP.

And this is the step I like JUST SIT DOWN and when you begin to fall short of money, reactivate it and file re-publish this file in the same places where you are going to do it now and new places youll know in the future. Always keep on hand a copy of this article, REACTIVATE IT every time you need money.. THIS IS AN UNBELIEVABLE TOOL THAT YOU CAN USE AGAIN EVERY TIME YOU NEED CASH, IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY WAY OF SHARING AND IN WHICH WE ATTRACT WEALTH TO OUR LIVES. HONESTY IS WHAT MAKES THIS PROGRAM SUCCEEDS. DO NOT FORGET IT!
GOOD LUCK!

Just one more point, if you translate all this message to other
languages, you can also paste it in various newsgroups of many countries,such as
France, Germany, Russia (I say this as a tip to expand chances of seeing it by a lot more people).

jPls>,SPGRpoSOnZIP>=OA%U+

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chraes elgooG

2009-04-25T04:56:49Z

Hi, should read “Google search text reversing” anyone know why the
text gets mangled like this and how to fix it ?
Regards
John
P.S. Using latest version of Firefox as my browser
mA
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autocad electrical 2010 autodesk full download crack torrent rapidshare 13804256

2009-04-11T17:35:59Z

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autocad electrical 2010 full download crack torrent rapidshare
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Enfocus Instant PDF 3.02 (Acrobat plugin)

Enfocus PitStop Server 3.0

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ESKO-Graphics FlexoPERfection 7.0

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Express Digital Darkroom Assembly Edition 8.61

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FastFilms 3.5 (Photoshop plugin)

FastRIP Regular/Pro/LF 8.0

Flip! Super 3D Genius 1.5

Franklin Estimator 4.04

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i2@Sf#1Lae3^Slg iSD,F:g@k!XML&d&1&J\1$+B
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Does Thunderbird connect to mail servers with IDN in host names?

2009-04-07T03:08:48Z

I'm looking for a bit of feedback, and maybe some help. I'm not quite
sure where international support in Thunderbird is at the moment.

For general message composition, reading etc I believe it is reasonable.

Last year I finished the patches that mean that Thunderbird 3 will
support links with IDNs in emails, so that they can be opened in Firefox
just by clicking on them.

I'm interested in helping our support for connecting to servers and
email addressing to move towards better international support. For
instance, I know we don't support IDN in email addresses at the moment -
the specifications for that are only just starting to be published in
draft form.

I am not promising we'll get any more fixes into Thunderbird 3 - we've
already got a lot of work on. However, if someone does want to work on
patches and fixing up Thunderbird, I'd be happy to help direct, review etc.

There's a couple of things I'd initially like to know from people who
have the facilities to test:

1) Does Thunderbird connect to mail servers with IDN in the host names?
i.e. without using the punycode version.

2) Do servers support non-ascii usernames? If so, does Thunderbird
support non-ascii usernames as well?

Thanks
Standard8
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Problems with XMLHttpRequest.send in Firefox 3

2008-07-21T06:52:44Z

With the 3.0 version, I've been having some problems with a javascript
function. This code worked just fine in Firefox 2.0, and still works
fine in Internet Explorer. Any thoughts?

Here's the script
--------------------------------------
function login(uname, pwd) {
var objHTTP;
if (window.ActiveXObject) {
objHTTP = new ActiveXObject('Microsoft.XMLHTTP');
}
else {
objHTTP = new XMLHttpRequest();
}
objHTTP.open('POST',"/cgi-bin/UserLogin.cgi",false);
objHTTP.setRequestHeader('Content-Type', 'application/x-www-form-
urlencoded');
objHTTP.send("un=" + uname + "&pw=" + pwd);
var strResult = objHTTP.responseText;
var regexp = /url="(.*)">/;
var url = regexp.exec(strResult)[1];
window.open('/cgi-bin/' + url);
}

It chokes at the line "var strResult = objHTTP.responseText;" because
it seems that the previous line did not correctly send the username
and password. Does anyone have an idea about why this is happening? I
thought about the encoding problem that was discussed last month here,
but I don't think that's the problem.
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Re: formatting numbers, decimal divider

2008-07-04T08:29:31Z

2008/7/4 Rimas Kudelis <rq@...>:
>> Not really, though it's likely OS and users language are the same.
>
> You're unlucky then, cause even Firefox 3.0 still doesn't do it. Check
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161116 .

Ok. Thanks for the bug #.

Juergen
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Re: formatting numbers, decimal divider

2008-07-03T22:28:52Z

Jürgen Herz rašė:
> 2008/7/1, Axel Hecht <l10n@...>:
>
>> new Number() and then toLocaleString() uses the OS locale, that's not
>> really what you want, I guess?
>
> Not really, though it's likely OS and users language are the same.

You're unlucky then, cause even Firefox 3.0 still doesn't do it. Check
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161116 .

RQ
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Re: formatting numbers, decimal divider

2008-07-03T08:57:52Z

2008/7/1, Axel Hecht <l10n@...>:

> new Number() and then toLocaleString() uses the OS locale, that's not
> really what you want, I guess?

Not really, though it's likely OS and users language are the same.

Thanks,
Juergen
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Re: formatting numbers, decimal divider

2008-07-01T06:21:39Z

Jürgen Herz wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I'm writing an extension in which some numbers are output. But in some
> countries the decimal divider is a comma, in others a point. Is there
> a standard way to get numbers formatted according to the browser
> locale?
>
> Regards,
> Juergen

new Number() and then toLocaleString() uses the OS locale, that's not
really what you want, I guess?

Axel
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formatting numbers, decimal divider

2008-07-01T05:24:07Z

Hello!

I'm writing an extension in which some numbers are output. But in some
countries the decimal divider is a comma, in others a point. Is there
a standard way to get numbers formatted according to the browser
locale?

Regards,
Juergen
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Re: Firefox 3 beta 5 - when sending XMLHTTPRequest, content-type request header is forced to ISO-8859-1 encoding instead of UTF-8

2008-06-24T07:17:41Z

please does anyone have any idea of how
, using XMLHttpRequest send method,
should be te structure of a dom object to pass information to a server
and capture it in request object?

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Re: Firefox 3 beta 5 - when sending XMLHTTPRequest, content-type request header is forced to ISO-8859-1 encoding instead of UTF-8

2008-05-06T02:26:42Z

peterhxandros@... wrote:
> I'm having problems with Firefox 3 beta 5 when sending UTF-8
> characters via an XMLHTTPRequest.
>
> I have read the following page: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XMLHttpRequest
> which states:
> Note: Versions of Firefox prior to version 3 always send the request
> using UTF-8 encoding; Firefox 3 properly sends the document using the
> encoding specified by data.xmlEncoding, or UTF-8 if no encoding is
> specified. [...]

bz has updated this page (maybe after reading this message) to correct
it, it's data.inputEncoding that is used.

This is also what the current w3c draft says :
http://www.w3.org/TR/XMLHttpRequest/
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Firefox 3 beta 5 - when sending XMLHTTPRequest, content-type request header is forced to ISO-8859-1 encoding instead of UTF-8

2008-04-30T05:49:37Z

I'm having problems with Firefox 3 beta 5 when sending UTF-8
characters via an XMLHTTPRequest.

I have read the following page: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XMLHttpRequest
which states:
Note: Versions of Firefox prior to version 3 always send the request
using UTF-8 encoding; Firefox 3 properly sends the document using the
encoding specified by data.xmlEncoding, or UTF-8 if no encoding is
specified.
In my test example, I attempt to explicitly set the content-type
header to "text/xml;charset=utf-8", as well as verify that the
xmlEncoding is null.

However, when I view the request headers in FF3 I see:
Content-Type text/xml; charset=ISO-8859-1
and the content on the server side is garbled

In FF2 I see:
Content-Type text/xml;charset=UTF-8
and t content is correctly encoded as UTF-8 on the server side

Here's an example:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://
www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title></title>
<script language="javascript">
var dom = document.implementation.createDocument( "", "",
null );
var element = dom.createElement( "content" );
element.appendChild( dom.createTextNode( "üßäöüß" ) );
dom.appendChild( element );
var request = new XMLHttpRequest();
var url ="someURL";
request.open( "POST", url, true );
request.setRequestHeader( "Content-Type", "text/
xml;charset=utf-8" );

/* Firefox 3 should take it's cue from data.xmlEncoding,
according to
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XMLHttpRequest */
alert( "xmlEncoding? " + dom.xmlEncoding );

request.send( dom );
</script>
</head>
<body>
</body>
</html>

Does anyone have any idea on how to control this? Or how to set the
xmlEncoding property if necessary? Or what I'm doing wrong ;) ?

Thanks,

Peter
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Help Me!

2008-04-28T09:43:38Z

He needs your help! http://www.freewebs.com/burndonation
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Re: OpenType Layout Language Tags

2008-04-23T08:14:06Z

Damjan Georgievski wrote:

> Hi all,
> My question is about the support for the "OpenType Layout Language Tags"
> in Firefox when using OpenType fonts on Linux.

There's a bug from 2000 about this:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24139

Does this mean there haven't been any progress at all on this issue?

--
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OpenType Layout Language Tags

2008-04-22T16:55:05Z

Hi all,
My question is about the support for the "OpenType Layout Language Tags" in
Firefox when using OpenType fonts on Linux.

The thing is, there's a slight difference between russian and macedonian
cyrillics, more precisely 5 characters in their italic variant, look
different. So some fonts, like for ex. the "DejaVu Serif"(1) font, support
the "OpenType Layout Language Tags" feature, in which there are separate
glyph for each unicode character, tagged with the language.

Any rendering engine should select the glyph based on the content language
or user locale (or preference).

For example,
pango-view --font="DejaVu Serif Italic" --text="б г д п т" --language=ru
pango-view --font="DejaVu Serif Italic" --text="б г д п т" --language=mk
will show slight differences in the rendering.

SO, the question is, how can I make Firefox 3.0 display the correct
rendering of these macedonian cyrillic italic letters? It's using Pango on
Linux so it should be possible.

I've made a test page with an image rendering from pango, and html text.
http://damjan.softver.org.mk/italic.html
It's in macedonian, but the important difference is in the red rectangle
(the letters as rendered by the browser) and the green rectangle (an
image).

--
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804 bloqueador veicular sem mensalidades - http://bloqueadorgsm.vilabol.uol.com.br 8042705220653047168061680

2008-04-05T08:44:45Z

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www.kaunoturgus.lt

2008-02-27T23:40:16Z

--
View the new internet autos page
Buy and sell for free

www.kaunoturgus.lt

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Get A Top 5 Google Ranking In Under 30 Days

2007-11-18T18:20:18Z

Get A Top 5 Google Ranking In Under 30 Days

http://seoplacement.100webspace.net/seo/seo-optimization/best_seo_software.html

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Re: new localization framework - comments

2007-11-12T05:40:12Z

Ray Kiddy wrote:

> Ricardo Palomares Martinez wrote:
>> Axel Hecht escribió:
>>> Ricardo Palomares Martínez wrote:
>>>> I may be wrong, but I see L20n as something potentially complex to
>>>> handle files by hand, and if tools are expected to grow around it,
>>>> some adjustments should be taken into account to make those tools more
>>>> useful. I keep missing UI context information, which would enable
>>>> tools to help with non-conflicting accesskey assignments, and I'd like
>>>> to review comments oriented to warn localizers.
>>> Accesskeys are hard. Mostly because in our applications, the context
>>> isn't finite, damn extensions and overlays.
>>
>>
>> Regarding extensions, I don't think anybody expects that a Mozilla
>> product full-loaded with extensions doesn't have accesskey conflicts;
>> even a lean, recently-installed one will have in some specific parts.
>> The thing here is to minimize the cases as much as possible.
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure if there's a good way to solve this, let alone with
>>> non-Mozilla target applications in mind.
>>>
>
> I think there is a way to solve it. It requires a bit of investment,
> though. Traditionally, access key collisions are too easy to just blame
> on the last person to cause a conflict. This was certainly my experience
> at Apple. The person most motivated to solve the problem is also under
> the gun to just "get it fixed for right now".
>
> There could be a component that keeps track of access key assignments.
> For example, an extension could apply an access key, but do it through
> the manager. The assignment would work only when the key was not assigned.
>
> Actually, an extension developer would want to supply an array of keys
> and the access key manager could assign the first one from the supplied
> list that is not taken. This will allow an extension developer to make
> use of access keys, as much as possible, without causing problems for
> others. And then there be hooks for fall-back logic and such. Etc, etc.
>
> So, I can design and write an XPCOM component to do this. Getting it
> checked in would be another question. Getting anybody to use it would be
> another, much harder, question. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to
> proceed? Is there a good bug to use for this?
>
> I do not mind creating the component, but I also do not have time to
> spit into the wind.
>
> By the way, lots of good I10N and L18N checking and testing could go
> through this manager as well.
>

Trying to get my head into this one again.

I'm not sure that doing an array of accesskeys is going to be as stable
as we would like it to be. Like, this would end up depending on the
order in which overlays are loaded, right? Which might be a hash
thingie, thus you could change the order by just adding a new item, and
even though no conflict to be removed changed, the resolution could change.

Sounds like a bag of bees to me. Anyway, sounds to me like something
that should be discussed in a group with a wider audience, maybe m.d.t.xul?

Axel
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Open Source Software Research

2007-11-11T03:14:05Z

Dear Open Source Software Participant:

You are invited to participate in a OSS research survey conducted by
Professor Weiling Ke at Clarkson University and Professor Ping Zhang at
Syracuse University. Currently, we are examining factors that motivate
people's participation in the Open Source Software (OSS) community. Your
response is critical to our research and will be highly appreciated!

Here is a link to the survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Kz7dhISrOW7hQOJBpr4ysA_3d_3d

Thanks for your participation!

Sincerely yours,

Weiling Ke
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Open Source Software Research

2007-11-11T02:38:29Z

Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-11-10T17:19:45Z

Jean-Marc Desperrier wrote:

> Axel Hecht wrote:
>> On a regular XP, the ellipsis is rendered similarily to ... (just more
>> closely spaced). On a Japanese Windows, it's apparently rendered with
>> MS UI Gothic, which places the dots on the middle of the line
>> vertically. Now that obviously looks wrong for English text, but I
>> wonder if it's right in other scripts, in particular, for Japanese.
>> Independent of other apps using '.''.''.' and thus being on the
>> baseline, the font might be right for Japanese script. (The bug has a
>> testcase for the ellipsis in both fonts.)
>
>> Are there similar problems for other scripts?
>> Could this happen to other glyphs?
>
> First, I think this is truly a i18n problem, so I'll restrict there.
>
> Yes, you would have similar problem running a japanese firefox under a
> chinese OS, all the kanji for menus and button would be rendered using
> the chinese version that looks ugly.
>
> That's the real problem I believe. Using the font the OS tells you to
> use to display your application's menus and buttons means the result
> will be bad as soon as the localization of the OS and of the application
> don't match.
>
> Now this is not as bad as it looks, because doing otherwise means you
> will loose appearance consistency between applications.

But the _application_ should be able to hint to the OS language it wants
the OS to pull the glyphs with regard to. (I would hope) and if a
correct language isn't present, then the fallback of the current language.

But somehow, I doubt current OS's and font designs allow for this
distinction. :/
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Re: new localization framework - comments

2007-11-05T11:10:29Z

Ray Kiddy escribió:

> Ricardo Palomares Martinez wrote:
>> Axel Hecht escribió:
>> [Regarding accesskey conflicts]
>>> I'm not sure if there's a good way to solve this, let alone with
>>> non-Mozilla target applications in mind.
>>>
>
> I think there is a way to solve it. It requires a bit of investment,
> though. (..)
>
> There could be a component that keeps track of access key assignments.
> For example, an extension could apply an access key, but do it through
> the manager. The assignment would work only when the key was not assigned.

I'm not sure I'm getting you. Do you mean that the developer (or the
localizer, for that matter) won't be the one deciding the accesskey
while writing the code, but just let a component choose it at runtime
in a way that doesn't cause conflicts? Don't you think this will lead
to different accesskeys for each execution, or at least vary the
accesskey for a UI element depending of the installed extensions?

As a user, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want the program to be
dinamically changing the accesskeys just because I've installed an
extension. Besides accessibility, accesskeys provide quick access to
options that aren't used so often to assign them a shortcut.

> Actually, an extension developer would want to supply an array of keys
> and the access key manager could assign the first one from the supplied
> list that is not taken. This will allow an extension developer to make
> use of access keys, as much as possible, without causing problems for
> others. And then there be hooks for fall-back logic and such. Etc, etc.

At first sight, I'd say that may actually involve more work. The
developer (I'm not restricting here to extension developers) would
pick their choice for every UI element, but after testing a nightly,
it could happen that the different keysets cooperate in a way that
makes some UI elements run out of "keys of choice", or make weird
assignments. The developer should re-think every keyset to get a
better assignment.

As I'm doing some changes to an old L10n tool, I also thought of
providing an automated accesskey assignment, but I discarded
inmediately because of reasons similar to the above explained.

> So, I can design and write an XPCOM component to do this. Getting it
> checked in would be another question. Getting anybody to use it would be
> another, much harder, question. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to
> proceed? Is there a good bug to use for this?
>
> I do not mind creating the component, but I also do not have time to
> spit into the wind.

I'd like to know Axel's opinion on this, as I may be a bit
short-sighed with these questions.

Ricardo

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Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-11-05T10:18:46Z

Jean-Marc Desperrier wrote:

> Damjan Georgievski wrote:
>[...]
>> I ask this because we have a similar problem, different glyphs for
>> cyrillic
>> itallic letters in macedonian/serbian vs russian/bulgarian (I don't know
>> for other languages).
>
> It sounds worth investigating, but I'm not an expert on this.
> If I understand correctly, macedonian/serbian are cyrillic, so what
> encoding is used for them ?
> If it's the same encoding as for russian/bugarian, it makes things hard.
> It could still be handled by adding a LANG attribute with the proper
> code (mk, sr), and separating the current cyrillic setting in the option
> into "cyrillic (russia/bulgaria)" and "cyrillic (macedonia/serbia)" to
> allow setting different fonts for the two (tradionnal chines is already
> similarly separated in two)

You know the problem you rise here seems very interesting.

It seems it will require some change in Firefox to handle it correctly,
but just make it known so that those changes can come.

Honestly it's now too late for firefox 3, but the problem must be
properly reported and described so that the changes can come as soon as
possible. I could help you report it in a bug, and justify what needs to
be changed to the i18n developpers.

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Re: new localization framework - comments

2007-11-05T09:07:36Z

Ricardo Palomares Martinez wrote:

> Axel Hecht escribió:
>> Ricardo Palomares Martínez wrote:
>>> I may be wrong, but I see L20n as something potentially complex to
>>> handle files by hand, and if tools are expected to grow around it,
>>> some adjustments should be taken into account to make those tools more
>>> useful. I keep missing UI context information, which would enable
>>> tools to help with non-conflicting accesskey assignments, and I'd like
>>> to review comments oriented to warn localizers.
>> Accesskeys are hard. Mostly because in our applications, the context
>> isn't finite, damn extensions and overlays.
>
>
> Regarding extensions, I don't think anybody expects that a Mozilla
> product full-loaded with extensions doesn't have accesskey conflicts;
> even a lean, recently-installed one will have in some specific parts.
> The thing here is to minimize the cases as much as possible.
>
>
>> I'm not sure if there's a good way to solve this, let alone with
>> non-Mozilla target applications in mind.
>>

I think there is a way to solve it. It requires a bit of investment,
though. Traditionally, access key collisions are too easy to just blame
on the last person to cause a conflict. This was certainly my experience
at Apple. The person most motivated to solve the problem is also under
the gun to just "get it fixed for right now".

There could be a component that keeps track of access key assignments.
For example, an extension could apply an access key, but do it through
the manager. The assignment would work only when the key was not assigned.

Actually, an extension developer would want to supply an array of keys
and the access key manager could assign the first one from the supplied
list that is not taken. This will allow an extension developer to make
use of access keys, as much as possible, without causing problems for
others. And then there be hooks for fall-back logic and such. Etc, etc.

So, I can design and write an XPCOM component to do this. Getting it
checked in would be another question. Getting anybody to use it would be
another, much harder, question. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to
proceed? Is there a good bug to use for this?

I do not mind creating the component, but I also do not have time to
spit into the wind.

By the way, lots of good I10N and L18N checking and testing could go
through this manager as well.

thanx - ray

>> Marking this up in the l10n source has the down-side of actually
>> requiring that that is bugfree, too. Like, how would the UI coder know
>> which accesskey contexts are already in use, and find a unique one. That
>> sounds like pushing the problem somewhere where it might not be solved
>> as well.
>
>
> The problem exists indeed in en-US already. A developer adding a UI
> element with an accesskey surely knows where is he placing it, and
> should find easily the UI-context(s) applicable which, in turn, should
> ease the election of the accesskey. Of course it will involve more
> work for them, but if the UI-context can help to localizers by
> providing automated checks, those same checks will be available also
> for en-US.
>
>> Sorry for the lag.
>>
>
> Ditto. :-)
>

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Re: new localization framework - comments

2007-11-04T14:36:14Z

Axel Hecht escribió:

> Ricardo Palomares Martínez wrote:
>> I may be wrong, but I see L20n as something potentially complex to
>> handle files by hand, and if tools are expected to grow around it,
>> some adjustments should be taken into account to make those tools more
>> useful. I keep missing UI context information, which would enable
>> tools to help with non-conflicting accesskey assignments, and I'd like
>> to review comments oriented to warn localizers.
>
> Accesskeys are hard. Mostly because in our applications, the context
> isn't finite, damn extensions and overlays.

Regarding extensions, I don't think anybody expects that a Mozilla
product full-loaded with extensions doesn't have accesskey conflicts;
even a lean, recently-installed one will have in some specific parts.
The thing here is to minimize the cases as much as possible.

> I'm not sure if there's a good way to solve this, let alone with
> non-Mozilla target applications in mind.
>
> Marking this up in the l10n source has the down-side of actually
> requiring that that is bugfree, too. Like, how would the UI coder know
> which accesskey contexts are already in use, and find a unique one. That
> sounds like pushing the problem somewhere where it might not be solved
> as well.

The problem exists indeed in en-US already. A developer adding a UI
element with an accesskey surely knows where is he placing it, and
should find easily the UI-context(s) applicable which, in turn, should
ease the election of the accesskey. Of course it will involve more
work for them, but if the UI-context can help to localizers by
providing automated checks, those same checks will be available also
for en-US.

>
> Sorry for the lag.
>

Ditto. :-)

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Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-11-02T19:01:02Z

Damjan Georgievski wrote:
>> No, the purpose of Unicode is to encode abstract characters, that are
>> recognised as representing the same element, but can have very various
>> graphical representations (glyphs) depending on both context and language.
> ...
>> If you want a nice display, you need to carry that language an cultural
>> preferences information into your display engine.
>
> Does Firefox do this today? - on Linux?
> How about Firefox 3?

It does it for the web content, but not for the interface where it uses
what it's told to do by the "OS" (more precisely by components in the
GUI layer that in some case are not fully part of the OS)

> I ask this because we have a similar problem, different glyphs for cyrillic
> itallic letters in macedonian/serbian vs russian/bulgarian (I don't know
> for other languages).

It sounds worth investigating, but I'm not an expert on this.
If I understand correctly, macedonian/serbian are cyrillic, so what
encoding is used for them ?
If it's the same encoding as for russian/bugarian, it makes things hard.
It could still be handled by adding a LANG attribute with the proper
code (mk, sr), and separating the current cyrillic setting in the option
into "cyrillic (russia/bulgaria)" and "cyrillic (macedonia/serbia)" to
allow setting different fonts for the two (tradionnal chines is already
similarly separated in two)

> Also, does anyone know of a tool I could use to inspect if the font has
> language specific glyphs?

It's supposed to work by selecting the font according to the language,
not by selecting language specific glyphs inside the font.
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Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-11-01T13:26:54Z

> No, the purpose of Unicode is to encode abstract characters, that are
> recognised as representing the same element, but can have very various
> graphical representations (glyphs) depending on both context and language.
...
> If you want a nice display, you need to carry that language an cultural
> preferences information into your display engine.

Does Firefox do this today? - on Linux?
How about Firefox 3?

I ask this because we have a similar problem, different glyphs for cyrillic
itallic letters in macedonian/serbian vs russian/bulgarian (I don't know
for other languages).

Also, does anyone know of a tool I could use to inspect if the font has
language specific glyphs?

--
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Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-10-31T06:55:59Z

Rimas Kudelis wrote:
> [...]
> Actually, I think you're wrong about this particular case.
>
> Check http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U3000.pdf, which depicts a few
> CJK punctuation symbols, like IDEOGRAPHIC COMMA and IDEOGRAPHIC FULL
> STOP, for example.

I'll tell you the little dirty secret of unicode :-)

Unicode is not perfect, sometimes the rules were not applied in a really
coherent manner, and a few of the characters encoded in unicode are
definitively errors. And punctuations, as well as spaces, are probably
the two most inconsistent areas.

> I tend to think, that if there actually exists a tradition to use an
> ellipsis character in Japanese, then perhaps there should be something
> like an IDEOGRAPHIC ELLIPSIS character in Unicode (similarly to the
> above cases).

In the ELLIPSIS case, unicode correctly applies it's rule of character
unification.

It's for the characters you cite that it doesn't.
Note that there probably is a very good reason for most of those
characters.
In addition to unification, unicode also as a rule of supporting
round-tripping of pre-unicode encodings.

I think each of those you cite already existed both in the JIS tables
and in ASCII. So to support round-trip of ASCII + JIS text, they had to
have a separate code point in unicode.

Ellipsis was already in JIS, but not in any of the basic western
encoding, so no compatibility need for separate encoding.

> Remember, that our actual problem is that the user runs an English
> version of Firefox (or any other Latin or even Cyrillic script-based
> language version anyway) on Japanese version of Windows. I can't say for
> sure, and I guess we should consult someone with a good knowledge in
> Japanese here, but perhaps the problem we're dealing with now is
> actually nothing but a bug in MS UI Gothic?

No, it's not. MS UI Gothic is displaying U2026 - ELLIPSIS with the
prefered glyph to use in association with japanese text, knowing that
U2026 is defined as the unicode code point corresponding to JISX0208
1-36 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS and the official glyph for JIS 1-36 is with the
middle dots. Which means that it's not the prefered glyph to use in
association with latin text.

The irony is that there is a unicode character with three middle dot,
U22EF, but it a mathematical symbol, not an ellipsis, therefore it's not
allowed to convert 'JISX0208 1-36 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS' to it.
Some old version of MacOS did it though:
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA010341/unicode/

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Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-10-31T05:40:50Z

Rimas Kudelis wrote:
> [...]
> Some, but not much, information on this topic can be found here:
> http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/AppCompatInMUI.mspx#ERB .

"[...] To get maximum application compatibility, you can set all the
language related settings to match the application’s language. This
includes:
[...]
• Shell UI Font (this setting can only be set from XP MUI Setup and only
applies to Japanese applications)."

Here we are. So there is a bit of support for it even if it's currently
very restricted.

> However, even in theory it's quite interesting. I wonder if it's
> possible to tell screen readers, for example, that the application
> running on e.g. German windows has an interface in English. Is it
> possible at all?

Yes, another case where support for this would be needed.

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Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-10-31T01:57:30Z

Jean-Marc Desperrier rašė:

> Rimas Kudelis wrote:
>> Second, I believe that this would defeat the purpose of Unicode (which
>> is to be consistent, no matter what the context or language is).
>
> (I'm setting the follow-up on i18n again).
>
> No, the purpose of Unicode is to encode abstract characters, that are
> recognised as representing the same element, but can have very various
> graphical representations (glyphs) depending on both context and language.
>
> http://unicode.org/reports/tr17/#CharactersVsGlyphs
> "The elements of the character repertoire are abstract characters.
> Characters are different from glyphs, which are the particular images
> representing a character or part of a character. Glyphs for the same
> character may have very different shapes"
> "[...] the connection between glyphs and characters is at times even
> less direct. Glyphs may be required to change their shape, position and
> width depending on the surrounding glyphs"
>
> Chinese characters unification is the reference case where the
> appearance is very dependent on the language :
> http://unicode.org/faq/han_cjk.html#3
> "Q: If the character shapes are different in different parts of East
> Asia, why were the characters unified?
>
> A: The Unicode standard is designed to encode characters, not glyphs.
> Even where there are substantial variations in the standard way of
> writing a character from locale to locale, if the fundamental identity
> of the character is not in question, then a single character is encoded
> in Unicode."

Hmm....

Actually, I think you're wrong about this particular case.

Check http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U3000.pdf, which depicts a few
CJK punctuation symbols, like IDEOGRAPHIC COMMA and IDEOGRAPHIC FULL
STOP, for example.

I tend to think, that if there actually exists a tradition to use an
ellipsis character in Japanese, then perhaps there should be something
like an IDEOGRAPHIC ELLIPSIS character in Unicode (similarly to the
above cases).

Remember, that our actual problem is that the user runs an English
version of Firefox (or any other Latin or even Cyrillic script-based
language version anyway) on Japanese version of Windows. I can't say for
sure, and I guess we should consult someone with a good knowledge in
Japanese here, but perhaps the problem we're dealing with now is
actually nothing but a bug in MS UI Gothic?

Oh, and by the way, a similar question has already been raised by Nokia
five years ago(!) on a mailing list of w3c. Here's the thread:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2002OctDec/0102.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2002OctDec/0110.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2002OctDec/0115.html

RQ
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Re: Rendering of ellipsis for different scripts

2007-10-30T14:59:55Z

Jean-Marc Desperrier rašė:

> Rimas Kudelis wrote:
>> Is it possible to tell the OS what locale the program interface is in?
>> And if yes, then does Firefox do that ATM?
>
> This is clearly OS dependent, but I think there's very little support
> for it.
>
> Under Windows, you can change the locale under which each application
> runs ( using applocale
> http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/apploc.mspx ), but the UI fonts
> do not depend on the locale.

That's not what I meant...

Back to the initial problem, I'll soon reply to your older post (or mine).

> Under linux, the X/11 settings that apply to each application can be
> customized, but I wonder of this applies to the menus.:
> http://mit.edu/answers/xwindows/xwindows_fonts.html
> "most programs will obey a "font" resource in your .Xresources file; for
> example, you could put the line "xterm*font: 8x13" to make 8x13 your
> default xterm font."
>
> It seems likely the menus/button depend either on the desktop
> environment (Gnome/KDE/etc.) or on the widget toolkits the application
> uses (Qt/GTK/Motif). I don't know precisely what support they have for
> per locale/per app customization.

It depends on the widget set, definitely.

RQ
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