Multi-seat with multiple X-servers

[Paul van der Vlis]

Hello,

I use multiple X-servers on the same machine for multi-seat and I am
using GDM.

My multi-seat configuration is now completely in xorg.conf, I don't need
any setting in gdm.conf anymore.

Because of that I don't expect any problems with the new GDM, or am I
wrong?

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.




--
http://www.vandervlis.nl/


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[Brian Cameron]

Paul:

> I use multiple X-servers on the same machine for multi-seat and I am
> using GDM.

What do you mean when you say MultiSeat?  MultiSeat usually implies
that you are running in a terminal-server-like environment where you
have a single server and multiple displays, keyboards and mice, each
one being managed separately by GDM.  This way a single server can
provide separate desktops for people sitting in different seats.

Or do you mean MultiDisplay where you have a single seat but multiple
monitors?  This sort of setup is often used in a single seat, but with
multiple monitors set side-by-side so that you have a single login,
and your user session spans the multiple monitors, providing you with a
large desktop.

What version of gdm are you using?  You can run
"gdmflexiserver --version" or "gdmflexiserver --command=VERSION" to find
out if you are not sure.

> My multi-seat configuration is now completely in xorg.conf, I don't need
> any setting in gdm.conf anymore.
>
> Because of that I don't expect any problems with the new GDM, or am I
> wrong?

I think it depends on what sort of behavior you expect from GDM, and
what version of GDM you are using.  GDM 2.20 and earlier have good
support for MultiSeat, while GDM 2.21 and later are only able to
manage a single local display (and additional XDMCP displays).

If you are using Xinerama or some other Xorg configuration to make
multiple monitors seems like a single display to GDM, then it should
"just work".  In other words, I think both the old and new GDM support
MultiDisplay reasonably well.

However, if you are using the new GDM and expecting GDM to separately
manage each display in a MultiSeat fashion, then I do not think that
is possible with the new GDM.  If you have found some trick to make
the new GDM work with MultiSeat via only configuring xorg.conf, then I,
for one, would be interested to hear how you got this working.

If you are applying the ConsoleKit and GDM patches as mentioned
in bugs.freedesktop.org bug #19333 and bugzilla.gnome.org bug #536355,
then this does add MultiSeat support and should allow you to configure
GDM to work in this way.  However, this is bleeding edge code, and may
have bugs and the configuration interfaces may not be fully stable yet.

Brian
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[Paul van der Vlis]

Brian Cameron schreef:

>
> Paul:
>
>> I use multiple X-servers on the same machine for multi-seat and I am
>> using GDM.
>
> What do you mean when you say MultiSeat?  MultiSeat usually implies
> that you are running in a terminal-server-like environment where you
> have a single server and multiple displays, keyboards and mice, each
> one being managed separately by GDM.  This way a single server can
> provide separate desktops for people sitting in different seats.
>
> Or do you mean MultiDisplay where you have a single seat but multiple
> monitors?  This sort of setup is often used in a single seat, but with
> multiple monitors set side-by-side so that you have a single login,
> and your user session spans the multiple monitors, providing you with a
> large desktop.

I have one server with 2 displays, 2 keyboards, 2 mice.
And I would like to build other ones, with more then 2 "seats".

It is not a terminal-server-like environment, every display hangs with a
cable directly at the server.

Maybe look here to get an idea:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_configuration

> What version of gdm are you using?  You can run
> "gdmflexiserver --version" or "gdmflexiserver --command=VERSION" to find
> out if you are not sure.

GDM 2.20.7

>> My multi-seat configuration is now completely in xorg.conf, I don't need
>> any setting in gdm.conf anymore.
>>
>> Because of that I don't expect any problems with the new GDM, or am I
>> wrong?
>
> I think it depends on what sort of behavior you expect from GDM, and
> what version of GDM you are using.  GDM 2.20 and earlier have good
> support for MultiSeat, while GDM 2.21 and later are only able to
> manage a single local display (and additional XDMCP displays).

That sounds as a problem for me.

> If you are using Xinerama or some other Xorg configuration to make
> multiple monitors seems like a single display to GDM, then it should
> "just work".  In other words, I think both the old and new GDM support
> MultiDisplay reasonably well.

It's not multidisplay, it's multiseat. With on this machine 2 videocards
and 2 X-servers.

> However, if you are using the new GDM and expecting GDM to separately
> manage each display in a MultiSeat fashion, then I do not think that
> is possible with the new GDM.  If you have found some trick to make
> the new GDM work with MultiSeat via only configuring xorg.conf, then I,
> for one, would be interested to hear how you got this working.

I am using the old one, and I would like to know if I get problems with
the new one... I will add my xorg.conf as an attachment.

> If you are applying the ConsoleKit and GDM patches as mentioned
> in bugs.freedesktop.org bug #19333 and bugzilla.gnome.org bug #536355,
> then this does add MultiSeat support and should allow you to configure
> GDM to work in this way.  However, this is bleeding edge code, and may
> have bugs and the configuration interfaces may not be fully stable yet.

I saw it, and I would like to know if I need it. And if it would work
for me.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.


--
http://www.vandervlis.nl/


# xorg.conf (X.Org X Window System server configuration file)
#
# This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using
# values from the debconf database.
#
# Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page.
# (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.)
#
# This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only*
# if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg
# package.
#
# If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated
# again, run the following command:
#   sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg

Section "ServerFlags"
     Option         "DefaultServerLayout" "seat0"
     Option         "AllowMouseOpenFail"  "true"
     Option         "AutoAddDevices"      "false"
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
       Identifier  "seat0"
       Screen    0  "screen0" 0 0
       InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
       InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
       Identifier  "seat1"
       Screen   1   "screen1" 0 0
       InputDevice    "Mouse1" "CorePointer"
       InputDevice    "Keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Module"
    Load           "dbe" # Double-Buffering Extension
    Load           "v4l" # Video for Linux
    Load           "extmod"
    Load           "freetype"
    Load           "glx" # 3D layer
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier "keyboard0"
        Driver "evdev"
        Option "XkbRules" "xorg"
        Option "XkbModel" "pc104"
        Option "XkbLayout" "us"
        Option          "Device" "/dev/input/by-path/pci-0000:00:10.3-usb-0:1.2:1.0-event-kbd"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier      "keyboard1"
        Driver          "evdev"
        Option          "XkbRules"      "xorg"
        Option          "Device" "/dev/input/by-path/pci-0000:00:10.3-usb-0:1.4.1:1.0-event-kbd"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier "mouse0"
        Driver "evdev"
        Option           "Device" "/dev/input/by-path/pci-0000:00:10.3-usb-0:1.3:1.0-event-mouse"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier      "mouse1"
        Driver          "evdev"
        Option         "Device" "/dev/input/by-path/pci-0000:00:10.3-usb-0:1.4.2:1.0-event-mouse"
EndSection


Section "Device"
        Identifier "card0"
        Driver        "mga"
        BusID       "PCI:01:00:0"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        Identifier      "card1"
        Driver "sis"
        BusID        "PCI:00:11:0"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier "monitor0"
        HorizSync       30-65
        VertRefresh     50-75
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier      "monitor1"
        HorizSync       30-65
        VertRefresh     50-70
EndSection


Section "Screen"
        Identifier "screen0"
        Monitor "monitor0"
        Device          "card0"
        DefaultDepth    24
        SubSection "Display"
           Depth           24
           Modes           "1680x1050"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Screen"
       Identifier     "screen1"
       Monitor        "monitor1"
       Device         "card1"
       DefaultDepth    16
       SubSection "Display"
          Depth           16
          Modes           "1024x768"
       EndSubSection
EndSection


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[Brian Cameron]

Paul:

> I have one server with 2 displays, 2 keyboards, 2 mice.
> And I would like to build other ones, with more then 2 "seats".
>
> It is not a terminal-server-like environment, every display hangs with a
> cable directly at the server.
>
> Maybe look here to get an idea:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_configuration

Whether the displays are connected directly to the server or via some
other mechanism typically doesn't matter to GDM.  From GDM's perspective
these two use cases are similar.  Obviously, from an Xorg configuration
standpoint, they are quite different.

>> What version of gdm are you using?  You can run
>> "gdmflexiserver --version" or "gdmflexiserver --command=VERSION" to find
>> out if you are not sure.
>
> GDM 2.20.7

That explains why it works.

>>> My multi-seat configuration is now completely in xorg.conf, I don't need
>>> any setting in gdm.conf anymore.
>>>
>>> Because of that I don't expect any problems with the new GDM, or am I
>>> wrong?
>>
>> I think it depends on what sort of behavior you expect from GDM, and
>> what version of GDM you are using.  GDM 2.20 and earlier have good
>> support for MultiSeat, while GDM 2.21 and later are only able to
>> manage a single local display (and additional XDMCP displays).
>
> That sounds as a problem for me.

Yes, it would be.

>> If you are using Xinerama or some other Xorg configuration to make
>> multiple monitors seems like a single display to GDM, then it should
>> "just work".  In other words, I think both the old and new GDM support
>> MultiDisplay reasonably well.
>
> It's not multidisplay, it's multiseat. With on this machine 2 videocards
> and 2 X-servers.

Right.

>> However, if you are using the new GDM and expecting GDM to separately
>> manage each display in a MultiSeat fashion, then I do not think that
>> is possible with the new GDM.  If you have found some trick to make
>> the new GDM work with MultiSeat via only configuring xorg.conf, then I,
>> for one, would be interested to hear how you got this working.
>
> I am using the old one, and I would like to know if I get problems with
> the new one... I will add my xorg.conf as an attachment.

I'd think you would have problems, yes.  The new GDM does not support
MultiSeat yet.

>> If you are applying the ConsoleKit and GDM patches as mentioned
>> in bugs.freedesktop.org bug #19333 and bugzilla.gnome.org bug #536355,
>> then this does add MultiSeat support and should allow you to configure
>> GDM to work in this way.  However, this is bleeding edge code, and may
>> have bugs and the configuration interfaces may not be fully stable yet.
>
> I saw it, and I would like to know if I need it. And if it would work
> for me.

Probably not, unless you build the new GDM with the patches I pointed to
in my previous email.  Hopefully these patches will get into the new GDM
in the 2.30 timeframe, and then it should work for you.  We were hoping
to get this work done in the 2.28 timeframe, but it ended up being much
more work than we expected.

Brian
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[Paul van der Vlis]

Brian Cameron schreef:

>> I am using the old one, and I would like to know if I get problems with
>> the new one... I will add my xorg.conf as an attachment.
>
> I'd think you would have problems, yes.  The new GDM does not support
> MultiSeat yet.
>
>>> If you are applying the ConsoleKit and GDM patches as mentioned
>>> in bugs.freedesktop.org bug #19333 and bugzilla.gnome.org bug #536355,
>>> then this does add MultiSeat support and should allow you to configure
>>> GDM to work in this way.  However, this is bleeding edge code, and may
>>> have bugs and the configuration interfaces may not be fully stable yet.
>>
>> I saw it, and I would like to know if I need it. And if it would work
>> for me.
>
> Probably not, unless you build the new GDM with the patches I pointed to
> in my previous email.  Hopefully these patches will get into the new GDM
> in the 2.30 timeframe, and then it should work for you.  We were hoping
> to get this work done in the 2.28 timeframe, but it ended up being much
> more work than we expected.

Then it can become a real problem in the future for me...

At this moment my distribution Debian is shipping GDM version 2.20.9 for
the next release, but when they would switch to a newer version my setup
does not work anymore (till hopefully version 2.30.x).

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.




--
http://www.vandervlis.nl/

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[Brian Cameron]

Paul:

> Then it can become a real problem in the future for me...
>
> At this moment my distribution Debian is shipping GDM version 2.20.9 for
> the next release, but when they would switch to a newer version my setup
> does not work anymore (till hopefully version 2.30.x).

Yes, the lack of MultiSeat support is probably one of the main reasons
that many distributions have been slow to adopt the new GDM rewrite.  It
is an important feature for an important segment of GDM users.

We are working hard to get MultiSeat support into ConsoleKit and GDM.
If your distro updates to a version of GDM that doesn't work, then you
will either need to uninstall the new version of GDM and replace it with
the older one, or rebuild the new GDM with the patches.

We could use more testing of the new GDM with MultiSeat support, so if
you could try out the new patches with the new GDM, and let us know
how it works or what issues you encounter, then that would help to
ensure it gets upstream quickly.

Brian
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[Jukka Honkela]

Hi,

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Brian Cameron wrote:

> We could use more testing of the new GDM with MultiSeat support, so if
> you could try out the new patches with the new GDM, and let us know
> how it works or what issues you encounter, then that would help to
> ensure it gets upstream quickly.

Testing would be fine, but I'm personally stuck in a situation that
because I got the system finally working somehow with GDM and ConsoleKit
from few months ago, I'm reluctant to upgrade them because I need to keep
the system running or I'm going to get somewhat negative feedback and
pretty quickly :) I'm going to do the upgrade once I'm alone for a day or
two so I'm going to have enough time to fix it in time if needed.

Anyhow, I just keep wondering, apparently there is no simple way to test
the setup with any known virtualization setup. It'd be very helpful,
though, to get that done somehow. Sun owns virtualbox, I believe, could
you ask if the virtualbox developers could add a "second monitor" support
into it? :)

--
Jukka Honkela
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[Bob Doolittle]

Jukka Honkela wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Brian Cameron wrote:
>
>> We could use more testing of the new GDM with MultiSeat support, so if
>> you could try out the new patches with the new GDM, and let us know
>> how it works or what issues you encounter, then that would help to
>> ensure it gets upstream quickly.
>
> Testing would be fine, but I'm personally stuck in a situation that
> because I got the system finally working somehow with GDM and
> ConsoleKit from few months ago, I'm reluctant to upgrade them because
> I need to keep the system running or I'm going to get somewhat
> negative feedback and pretty quickly :) I'm going to do the upgrade
> once I'm alone for a day or two so I'm going to have enough time to
> fix it in time if needed.
>
> Anyhow, I just keep wondering, apparently there is no simple way to
> test the setup with any known virtualization setup. It'd be very
> helpful, though, to get that done somehow. Sun owns virtualbox, I
> believe, could you ask if the virtualbox developers could add a
> "second monitor" support into it? :)
>

Well, you could always install Sun Ray Server Software
(http://wikis.sun.com/display/SRS/Home) into a virtualbox or directly on
a Linux or OpenSolaris box and use the software client (which
unfortunately requires Windows :( ) to test it... Or of course pick up a
couple of hardware Sun Ray clients from EBay:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=%22Sun+Ray%22+thin+client

-Bob

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[Paul van der Vlis]

Brian Cameron schreef:

>
> Paul:
>
>> Then it can become a real problem in the future for me...
>>
>> At this moment my distribution Debian is shipping GDM version 2.20.9 for
>> the next release, but when they would switch to a newer version my setup
>> does not work anymore (till hopefully version 2.30.x).
>
> Yes, the lack of MultiSeat support is probably one of the main reasons
> that many distributions have been slow to adopt the new GDM rewrite.  It
> is an important feature for an important segment of GDM users.
>
> We are working hard to get MultiSeat support into ConsoleKit and GDM.
> If your distro updates to a version of GDM that doesn't work, then you
> will either need to uninstall the new version of GDM and replace it with
> the older one, or rebuild the new GDM with the patches.
>
> We could use more testing of the new GDM with MultiSeat support, so if
> you could try out the new patches with the new GDM, and let us know
> how it works or what issues you encounter, then that would help to
> ensure it gets upstream quickly.

I will see what I can do, but it is not easy.

The new Ubuntu will ship both 2.20 and (I expect) 2.28, maybe this makes
it more easy to test.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gdm
http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gdm-2.20

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.




--
http://www.vandervlis.nl/

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[Halton Huo]

On Tue, 2009-09-15 at 10:36 +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote:

> Brian Cameron schreef:
> >
> > Paul:
> >
> >> Then it can become a real problem in the future for me...
> >>
> >> At this moment my distribution Debian is shipping GDM version 2.20.9 for
> >> the next release, but when they would switch to a newer version my setup
> >> does not work anymore (till hopefully version 2.30.x).
> >
> > Yes, the lack of MultiSeat support is probably one of the main reasons
> > that many distributions have been slow to adopt the new GDM rewrite.  It
> > is an important feature for an important segment of GDM users.
> >
> > We are working hard to get MultiSeat support into ConsoleKit and GDM.
> > If your distro updates to a version of GDM that doesn't work, then you
> > will either need to uninstall the new version of GDM and replace it with
> > the older one, or rebuild the new GDM with the patches.
> >
> > We could use more testing of the new GDM with MultiSeat support, so if
> > you could try out the new patches with the new GDM, and let us know
> > how it works or what issues you encounter, then that would help to
> > ensure it gets upstream quickly.
>
> I will see what I can do, but it is not easy.
>
> The new Ubuntu will ship both 2.20 and (I expect) 2.28, maybe this makes
> it more easy to test.
>
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gdm
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gdm-2.20

I do not think the multi-seat feature is included in ubuntu GDM 2.28.

You need checkout the branches for the time being. Refer to
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2009-September/msg00006.html

Thanks,
Halton.

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[duportail]

On Monday 14 September 2009 20:32:35 Brian Cameron wrote:

> Paul:
> > I have one server with 2 displays, 2 keyboards, 2 mice.
> > And I would like to build other ones, with more then 2 "seats".
> >
> > It is not a terminal-server-like environment, every display hangs with a
> > cable directly at the server.
> >
> > Maybe look here to get an idea:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_configuration
>
> Whether the displays are connected directly to the server or via some
> other mechanism typically doesn't matter to GDM.  From GDM's perspective
> these two use cases are similar.  Obviously, from an Xorg configuration
> standpoint, they are quite different.
>
> >> What version of gdm are you using?  You can run
> >> "gdmflexiserver --version" or "gdmflexiserver --command=VERSION" to find
> >> out if you are not sure.
> >
> > GDM 2.20.7
>
> That explains why it works.
>
> >>> My multi-seat configuration is now completely in xorg.conf, I don't
> >>> need any setting in gdm.conf anymore.
> >>>
> >>> Because of that I don't expect any problems with the new GDM, or am I
> >>> wrong?
> >>
> >> I think it depends on what sort of behavior you expect from GDM, and
> >> what version of GDM you are using.  GDM 2.20 and earlier have good
> >> support for MultiSeat, while GDM 2.21 and later are only able to
> >> manage a single local display (and additional XDMCP displays).
> >
> > That sounds as a problem for me.
>
> Yes, it would be.
>
> >> If you are using Xinerama or some other Xorg configuration to make
> >> multiple monitors seems like a single display to GDM, then it should
> >> "just work".  In other words, I think both the old and new GDM support
> >> MultiDisplay reasonably well.
> >
> > It's not multidisplay, it's multiseat. With on this machine 2 videocards
> > and 2 X-servers.
>
> Right.
>
> >> However, if you are using the new GDM and expecting GDM to separately
> >> manage each display in a MultiSeat fashion, then I do not think that
> >> is possible with the new GDM.  If you have found some trick to make
> >> the new GDM work with MultiSeat via only configuring xorg.conf, then I,
> >> for one, would be interested to hear how you got this working.
> >
> > I am using the old one, and I would like to know if I get problems with
> > the new one... I will add my xorg.conf as an attachment.
>
> I'd think you would have problems, yes.  The new GDM does not support
> MultiSeat yet.
>
> >> If you are applying the ConsoleKit and GDM patches as mentioned
> >> in bugs.freedesktop.org bug #19333 and bugzilla.gnome.org bug #536355,
> >> then this does add MultiSeat support and should allow you to configure
> >> GDM to work in this way.  However, this is bleeding edge code, and may
> >> have bugs and the configuration interfaces may not be fully stable yet.
> >
> > I saw it, and I would like to know if I need it. And if it would work
> > for me.
>
> Probably not, unless you build the new GDM with the patches I pointed to
> in my previous email.  Hopefully these patches will get into the new GDM
> in the 2.30 timeframe, and then it should work for you.  We were hoping
> to get this work done in the 2.28 timeframe, but it ended up being much
> more work than we expected.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> gdm-list mailing list
> gdm-list@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gdm-list

I am starting multiple xgl servers (up to 12) directly in gdm.conf.
In ubuntu 9.04 i could still downgrade to gdm 2.18 to get the multiseat
working.In the new ubuntu 9.10 downgrading is almost impossible anymore and
gdm is changed too much now.

guy
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[Paul van der Vlis]

duportail schreef:

> I am starting multiple xgl servers (up to 12) directly in gdm.conf.
> In ubuntu 9.04 i could still downgrade to gdm 2.18 to get the multiseat
> working.In the new ubuntu 9.10 downgrading is almost impossible anymore and
> gdm is changed too much now.

I saw there is also a GDM 2.20: http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gdm-2.20
(universe, so no security support)

Met vriendelijke groet,
Paul van der Vlis.




--
http://www.vandervlis.nl/

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[duportail]

On Tuesday 22 September 2009 16:22:34 Paul van der Vlis wrote:

> duportail schreef:
> > I am starting multiple xgl servers (up to 12) directly in gdm.conf.
> > In ubuntu 9.04 i could still downgrade to gdm 2.18 to get the multiseat
> > working.In the new ubuntu 9.10 downgrading is almost impossible anymore
> > and gdm is changed too much now.
>
> I saw there is also a GDM 2.20: http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gdm-2.20
> (universe, so no security support)
>
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> Paul van der Vlis.

no, with the last karmic apt-get update and dist-upgrade this version is not
in the repo's anymore.
guy
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